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    S-500 'Prometheus' and S-550 missile systems

    Broski
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    Post  Broski Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:32 pm

    Hole wrote:The index has nothing to do with the range of the system otherwise the S-400 would be called S-250. Embarassed
    And the S-350 would be the S-150.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:10 am

    Well then the S-500 should be called the S-600 if it was based on range... which it is not.

    If it was based on range then an S-400 battery would consist of an S-15, and S-60, an  S-150, an S-250 and an S-400...

    The S-300 would also be called the S-75, S-90, S-125, and S-150...

    The S-300 replaced the S-200 as the long range SAM, and the S-400 is replacing the S-300.

    The S-500 is not replacing anything at all and is introducing new capabilities in the field of ABM and anti satellite potential.
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    Post  Kiko Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:17 pm

    Russia Creating New Anti-Aircraft Missile System S-550, 09/11/2021.

    "MOSCOW (Sputnik) - New anti-aircraft missile system S-550 is being created in Russia, the Russian Defence Ministry said.
    The statement indicates that at the meetings in Sochi, which took place on 1-3 November, Russian President Vladimir Putin "made a special emphasis on the importance of the advanced development of domestic air defense-missile defense systems, and deliveries of the S-350, S-500, S-550 to the Armed Forces."

    The ministry does not provide any details about the new system.

    /https://sputniknews.com/20211109/russia-creating-new-anti-aircraft-missile-system-s-550-1090601954.html]

    Any clues, anyone?

    Also:
    The name S-550 was carried by a Soviet project of a mobile short-range missile system, the development of which began at the Soviet Central Design Office in Almaz in 1981. Testing of the system was planned to begin in 1990 as a stationary complex, so as not to violate the ABM Treaty with the United States, which prohibited the development and implementation of mobile missile defense systems, but two years earlier work on the development of the complex had been halted.

    https://mundo.sputniknews.com/20211109/rusia-esta-creando-el-nuevo-sistema-de-misiles-antiaereos-s-550-1118042495.html

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    Broski
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    Post  Broski Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:18 pm

    Kiko wrote:Any clues, anyone?
    My guess is a short range anti ballistic missile complex, something complimentary to the S-500 and A-235, with a much larger missile payload than either complex.

    edit: Kind of like the 42S6 Morfei, but much bigger.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:25 pm

    The news came from vedomosti which is usual garbage.

    But if true, then most likely a mid range interceptor of Ballistic missiles and hypersonic. Possibly a replacement for the V series or Airforce variant while V is for army.
    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:39 pm

    >sputnik the worst reputation for posting russian military related sources.
    >not just sputnik but 3 more "literal who" news agencies make same source statement with simple Google search.
    >tass, ria, topwar.ru, etc don't post any of this yet AFAIK.

    Post interview of putin saying this or it's more than likely BS

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    Broski
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    Post  Broski Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:44 pm

    It's most likely a continuation of this project

    https://russianforces.org/blog/2012/10/very_modest_expectations_sovie.shtml

    There is not much information about S-550 and Sambo. As far as I can tell, S-550 was a terminal defense system with a traditional fast interceptor that would protect key command and control facilities as well as Moscow. It was probably based on the work that was done in the S-225 terminal missile defense project, which was closed in 1984 - it appears that the missile was transferred to the A-135 system (a discussion of that transfer on this blog). The 5K17 radar of the system - known as Flat Twin in the U.S. - had been moved to Kamchatka (it has been dismantled some time after 2005). The S-550 project was still active around 1989, but by all indications the work had stopped after 1991.

    The shortest range missile on the A-235 is 350km so we can assume the S-550's missile range will be much shorter than that.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:15 am

    .
    The statement indicates that at the meetings in Sochi, which took place on 1-3 November, Russian President Vladimir Putin "made a special emphasis on the importance of the advanced development of domestic air defense-missile defense systems, and deliveries of the S-350, S-500, S-550 to the Armed Forces."

    The fact that it does not mention S-400 suggests to me that the S-350 and S-500 are the very short to medium to long range and very long range missile systems.... ie 15km, 60km, 150km for S-350, and 600km+ for S-500, so the S-500 must fill the role of the S-400 with 250km and 400km range missiles.

    I suspect new radar and systems developed for the S-500 might be added to the S-400 and upgraded missiles with improved performance... say improved seekers able to deal with faster moving targets and targets outside the atmosphere might lead to an S-550 upgrade of S-400.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:46 am

    S-450 is missing. Laughing

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:07 pm

    tass reported it now https://tass.com/defense/1359383 please dont start off posting with sputnik ever again for example in that article they are making it look like Putin said it instead of Shoigu

    During his recent meeting with top Russian Defense Ministry officials and heads of Russian defense industry enterprises, Russian President Vladimir Putin emphasized the importance of delivering S-350, S-500 and S-550 surface-to-air missile systems to the troops, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Tuesday.

    "Measures to adequately respond to the volatile situation near Russia’s borders were considered. Huge attention was paid to improving the country’s system of aerospace defense. The head of the state put a special emphasis on the importance of advanced development of domestic air defense and anti-ballistic missile systems, of delivering S-350, S-500 and S-550 systems to the Russian armed forces," he said.

    The S-550 high-mobility terminal air defense system was being developed in the Soviet Union in 1981-1988. The project, along with many others, was closed as part of Soviet-US military agreements of that period. The equipment installed on the system’s prototype was dismantled after 1992. The project’s groundwork was destroyed after the collapse of the Soviet Union

    Broski
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    Post  Broski Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:I suspect new radar and systems developed for the S-500 might be added to the S-400 and upgraded missiles with improved performance... say improved seekers able to deal with faster moving targets and targets outside the atmosphere might lead to an S-550 upgrade of S-400.
    I think if it was an upgrade of the S-400 they'd call it the S-450, but we'll see.
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    Post  thegopnik Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:48 pm

    S-350 is considered medium range but s-550 is considered short range probably makes no sense since the pantsirs are good enough along with working on the quadpacked solution.
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    Post  Broski Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:29 pm

    thegopnik wrote:S-350 is considered medium range but s-550 is considered short range probably makes no sense since the pantsirs are good enough along with working on the quadpacked solution.
    Pantsirs, Tor's and other Russian SHORAD's are used for shooting down or destroying cruise missiles, drones, helicopters, low flying aircraft, glide bombs and artillery shells. But none of them are really designed to defeat ballistic or hypersonic munitions at the terminal stage.
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    Post  Kiko Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:13 pm

    "The importance of advanced development": how Russia is developing new missile defense systems, by Nadezhda Alekseeva and Elizaveta Komarova for RT News in Russian, 10/11/2021.

    Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that a new missile defense system, the S-550, may appear in the arsenal of the Russian army. Experts suggest that we can talk about the creation of a new complex, which will use the design developments accumulated in recent years. So, it is possible that the new system will be equipped with a large number of missiles and is designed to repel massive air strikes, analysts say.

    A new missile defense system, the S-550, may appear in service with the Russian army. This was announced by the Minister of Defense of Russia Sergei Shoigu at a conference call with the leadership of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation at the National Center for Defense Management of the Russian Federation.

    Speaking to the leadership of the Russian Armed Forces, Shoigu recalled a series of meetings that President Vladimir Putin held in Sochi in early November with the military command and representatives of the defense industry.

    “Measures were considered to adequately respond to changes in the situation near the Russian borders. Much attention was paid to improving the country's aerospace defense system. The head of state made a special emphasis on the importance of the advanced development of domestic air defense-missile defense systems, supplies to the armed forces of the S-350, S-500, S-550 systems, ”Sergei Shoigu said.

    The minister did not provide details. According to experts, this statement was the first public mention of the S-550 missile defense system.

    Recall that the S-500 Prometheus anti-aircraft missile system, which was also mentioned in the speech of the head of the Defense Ministry, has already begun to be supplied to the Russian army. Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov told reporters about it in September 2021.

    The production of the S-500 missile defense started in 2019, the complex is a new generation of air defense systems and is capable of striking all existing and promising air and space attack weapons.

    At the same time, the key task of the S-500 will be the destruction of both medium-range ballistic missiles and intercontinental ballistic missiles in the final section of the flight path. The complex is also capable of shooting down UAVs and enemy aircraft.

    As the head of the anti-aircraft missile forces of the Russian Aerospace Forces Sergey Babakov said earlier , the characteristics laid down by the designers in the S-500 will allow the air defense system to hit not only ballistic and aerodynamic targets, but also hypersonic weapons of all modifications.

    The range of destruction of the S-500 is up to 600 km, the complex is capable of shooting down targets at an altitude of up to 200 km. At the same time, the air defense missile system can form a single information network with other missile defense systems, distributing targets between them in an automatic mode.

    As for the S-350 Vityaz air defense system , the third complex mentioned by Sergei Shoigu, its creation began back in the 1990s due to the need to replace certain modifications of the S-300 complexes. The first working prototype of the anti-aircraft system was shown to the public in 2013 at the Obukhovsky plant in St. Petersburg. State tests of the S-350 missile defense system were completed in the summer of 2019, after which the Ministry of Defense signed a contract for the supply of new army systems.

    "Reflection of massive air attacks"

    According to experts, the S-550 missile defense system, which Sergei Shoigu mentioned in his speech, is unlikely to become a continuation of the Soviet project of the same name, which was developed in the 1980s.

    Then it was about creating a mobile short-range missile defense system capable of hitting ballistic missiles. Work on the complex began in 1981 on the basis of the Almaz Central Design Bureau together with the Novator Design Bureau. Already in 1985, the production of missile defense components was set up, tests of the S-550 were planned to begin in 1990. To comply with the treaty on the limitation of anti-missile defense systems signed by the USSR and the United States in 1972, it was planned to test a stationary version of the ABM. However, it did not come to the implementation of these plans - in 1988 the project was curtailed.

    According to military expert retired colonel Viktor Litovkin, modern missile defense systems continue the technical traditions laid down in the last century, but have already gone very far from their predecessors. Therefore, it is not worth drawing parallels between the Soviet S-550 project and modern developments, the expert noted in a commentary on RT.

    “In the era when the first S-550 was created, there were no such materials as exist today, there were no radar stations that detect targets at great distances. Over the decades, tremendous progress has been made not only in the creation of rocket launchers, but also in metallurgy and materials science. The production of fuel, on-board equipment and so on also developed, ”the expert explained.

    It is not yet known what the S-550 complex, announced by the Minister of Defense, will be, but a parallel can be drawn with the development of the S-300 complex in the form of the S-350 air defense system, Litovkin noted.

    “The S-300 and S-350 differ in that the launcher of the new complex has twice as many guiding missiles. I do not exclude that the S-550 may differ from the S-500 in the same way. The S-500 missile defense missiles can work in space, but do not forget that the system is also designed to work on aviation, hypersonic targets - the operator can choose a missile based on which target needs to be hit. I think that the S-550 complex will have different missiles on the launcher, ”the expert added.

    Military expert Alexei Leonkov adheres to a similar point of view. In an interview with RT, he explained that during the development of the S-500 missile defense system, additional design ideas and technologies could arise - most likely, they will now be implemented in the new S-550 system.

    “Of course, now there is no information about the S-550, but it can be assumed that the ammunition capacity of this complex will be increased at least several times, for example, compared to the S-400 air defense system. Most likely, this complex will be used to repel a massive strike by air attack means - bombers, air and ground-based cruise missiles. I can assume that the new air defense system will specialize precisely in repelling massive air attacks, ”the expert said.

    "For any purpose"

    Note that the predecessor of the S-500 air defense missile system, the S-400 Triumph complex, took up combat duty in 2007. The system is designed to engage any air targets in conditions of intense fire and electronic warfare. The range of destruction of the air defense missile system is up to 250 km for aerodynamic targets, up to 60 km for tactical ballistic targets, the complex can shoot down targets at an altitude of 27 km.

    The S-400 Triumph attracts the interest of foreign buyers - the earlier acquisition of a batch of air defense missile systems by Turkey caused serious contradictions between Ankara and Washington. Recall that the contract for the supply of the first batch of S-400s to the Turkish side was signed by Russia and Turkey in 2017. In 2020, the parties entered into an agreement on the continuation of supplies.

    According to experts, an important advantage of Russian missile defense systems is their versatility in comparison, for example, with their American counterparts.

    “The versatility lies in the fact that our missile defense system can work on any targets, and also launch missiles straight up. For comparison, American complexes start at an angle, and to cover the entire circumference, several launchers need to be deployed in a circle. It is more expensive and less effective, ”said Viktor Litovkin.

    The expert added that this does not replace the need for Russia to constantly expand the arsenal of domestic missile defense systems. The creation of the new C-550 system could be part of this strategy.

    “New complexes are being created because at the same time the means of attack are developing - aviation, ballistic missiles. And so that we are ready to intercept any missile, we need new systems, ”the expert summed up.

    https://russian.rt.com/russia/article/926315-zrk-s-550-sergei-shoigu-oborona

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:13 am

    To be clear the S-300 were the long range SAMs and were replaced with S-400 in the Air Force and S-300V4 in the Army.

    The S-350 are a reduced sized development of the S-400... smaller lighter shorter range (than the new S-400 missiles) that could be carried in greater numbers on the existing launchers with four missiles per existing missile tube, so therefore you could say the S-350 are minus 50 missiles to the S-400 rather than plus 50 missiles to the S-300 even though the S-400 is based on the S-300 missiles and are a similar size.

    The S-300 use track via missile guidance while S-400 are ARH missiles. The S-350 are also ARH missiles of smaller size and weight so they can be carried in much greater numbers while having better range and performance compared with the older missiles they replace (S-300).

    New radar and control and other vehicles have been developed for the S-500 and the missiles appear to be greatly enlarged S-300V missiles of the larger kind, so S-500 might be the 600km range super long range missiles for hypersonic targets and ICBMs and SLBMs and low flying satellites, but the S-550 might be the combination of S-400 and S-500 and S-350 systems with better sensors and longer range and better performance.

    These are heavy SAMs I really don't think the S-550 replaces anything but S-400... it would be used with S-500 and S-350 for top cover from ballistic and hypersonic threats, and also drone and cruise missile and very low flying attack threats respectively, while an S-400 class missile of 250km and 400km range will deal with launch platforms and stealth fighters and bombers etc etc.

    S-550 is not likely to replace TOR or BUK or Pantsir or Pine or Verba any time soon because it just does not make sense.

    What will make sense though is that an S-550 battery will have rather more missiles than S-400, while the S-350 has rather more missiles than the S-300 batteries it is replacing, and of course the S-500 is brand new and does not replace anything so its missiles are new and bonus missiles that make penetrating Russian airspace of Russian land or areas occupied by Russian ships that much harder.

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    Post  Hole Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:08 pm

    Could be a new missile to replace the good old 48N6. With already available tech the new missile could reach 250km but be much smaller and lighter = 8 or even 12 missiles per launcher.

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    Post  jhelb Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:35 pm

    Hole wrote:Could be a new missile to replace the good old 48N6. With already available tech the new missile could reach 250km but be much smaller and lighter = 8 or even 12 missiles per launcher.
    That's not what the article says. It says a new missile complex is being designed. Not one single new missile.

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    Post  Hole Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:10 pm

    We know nothing about S-550. This expert is pulling stuff out of his ass just like us.

    The S-400 started as a new S-300 version. The S-350 is build around a missile created as add-on to the S-300 system. Now they are new systems.

    The S-350 system was advertised as defender against massive air attacks. If the S-550 will have the same job, the only difference will be the range of its missile(s).

    They could use the S-400 as starting point, give it a modernised radar and a new missile and you got a new system, either with more missiles per launcher or a greater range (and a active radar seeker?). If so then the "old" S-400 units could be modernised quickly.

    Or is Morfeis coming out of the woods? Suspect
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    Post  Isos Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:46 pm

    IMO S-350 would have nevee seen the light of the day if the korean hadn't asked for russian help for their own systems.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:38 am

    The S-350 system was advertised as defender against massive air attacks. If the S-550 will have the same job, the only difference will be the range of its missile(s).

    I don't agree... they mentioned three systems that were going to be built moving forward... S-350, S-500 and S-550, where the S-550 is an unknown new system.

    The fact that we know the S-500 is a heavy powerful and likely not super cheap ABM/anti satellite/anti hypersonic weapon missile of great range, and the S-350 is the small S-400 missiles that cover what used to be long range but would now be considered medium range missiles, the gap that is left is the 250km and 400km range long range SAMs intended for aircraft and munitions.

    I tend to agree with Hole, I think S-500 will upgrade the radar and jammers and decoys and support equipment for the S-400 system based on improvements from the S-500 system, but that they will be wanting to so with the S-550 what they did to the S-400 when they created the S-350.

    Smaller lighter cheaper missiles with better performance than the missiles they replace (S-300 in the case of the S-350, but S-400 in the case of the S-550) that can be carried in much greater numbers...

    Now this might be smaller missiles but equally it might be big missiles with mini missiles too where the 400km range S-400 missile might carry 6-10 long slim missiles that are launched on a lofted trajectory that come down 400km away at say mach 5-6 and then light up their own scramjet engines and attack 6 to 10 separate aircraft targets or incoming cruise missiles or drones...

    S-400 is going to remain in service for a while, but plans going forward will probably look at these big heavy very long range missiles only being able to kill one target... though admittedly a heavy target... but it is a lot of missile and a lot of money just to down one plane.

    In comparison a similar sized missile directed at a flight of enemy bombers where during its flight individual missiles might be released on its way to engage any cruise missiles already launched by the 400km range target so one missile might shoot down a B-2 and also 5 missiles it had already launched.... or it engages a strike package of F-35s approaching Russian airspace fast and low and shoots down 6 planes as they enter Russian airspace from a SAM battery 350km away safe inland...

    IMO S-350 would have nevee seen the light of the day if the korean hadn't asked for russian help for their own systems.

    Not true. It was already a programme and was selected very early on as the standard Russian Navy SAM system... I suspect like the UAE orders for Pantsir-S1 the foreign interest and contribution likely made them better systems than they might otherwise have been.

    You could argue that the money they made likely went directly into making the SAMs better across the board because money always helps, though I seem to remember that the T-80Us and a lot of other assistance was to pay off Russian debt to South Korea for a range of things including electronics and shipbuilding.
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    Post  TMA1 Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:14 am

    To me the vague description of s-550 makes it sound like it would eventually take over the s-500. Will have more missiles per vehicle with smaller missiles as well as slightly better performance. Essentially what s 350 is to s 300. I agree 2ith isos
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:25 am

    S-500 has recently been inducted into the Russian Air Force. Therefore, S-550 will not replace but rather complement the S-500.

    This is where it gets interesting because with a combination of S-350, S-400 and S-500 backed up by Tor and Pantsir Russia has the entire kinetic kill interception envelope covered.

    So it's quite possible that S-550 will replace the S-400 especially now that quite a few countries have already acquired the S-400

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    Post  Mir Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:01 pm

    Clearly the S-500 is derived from the S-300VM which has two different sized missiles. The S-550 could be just that.
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:25 pm

    Mir wrote:Clearly the S-500 is derived from the S-300VM which has two different sized missiles. The S-550 could be just that.
    S-300VM did not have the capability to intercept ICBMs. However, S-500 has been designed with the intention of intercepting ICBMs.

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    Post  Mir Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:50 pm

    Very funny post! The S-300V(M) was designed to intercept ballistic missiles. The S-500 is just a further development from that concept - hence ICBM's and hypersonic missiles are now included.

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    S-500 'Prometheus'  and S-550 missile systems - Page 6 Empty Re: S-500 'Prometheus' and S-550 missile systems

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