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    Talking bollocks thread #3

    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:24 pm

    Scorpius wrote:You obviously don't know what it's like to grow up in a family of engineers in Russia. In addition, as I have already written, Dmitry Rogozin himself defended his dissertation and received the title of Doctor of Technical Sciences.

    Which he got at the same time he was Deputy Prime Minister. I have lived enough inside academia to know what effect something like that can have.
    I would hope Russian academia would be better than that but I would not bet on it.

    Elon's father was an electromechanical engineer. Is he an engineer? No. He's got undergraduate diplomas on business economics and physics.
    This is the person Rogozin dismissed at one point as not a specialist. Well he isn't, but Rogozin is even less so. Rogozin did his undergraduate diplomas in journalism and economics.

    Scorpius wrote:None of these problems are related to Rogozin. As for his personal achievements, first of all, this is the longest accident-free series of space launches in the history of modern Russia, and secondly, a lot of investigations of embezzlement of Roscosmos funds, for which criminal trials have been opened and the perpetrators have already been arrested. It was under Rogozin that the backlog in the construction schedule of the Vostochny cosmodrome was eliminated. It is with him that the Nauka module is finally being prepared to be sent into orbit. It was under him that they finally began to formulate long-term goals for Russian cosmonautics, expressed in specific programs and (most importantly) in the allocation of funds for their development.

    By the way, Rogozin did not have any "decade". He was appointed head of Roscosmos only in 2018. Before that, he did not manage this organization.

    He was the Deputy Prime Minister of Russia for Defense and Space Industry 2011-2018. So yes he was responsible.
    People blamed Medvedev for these failures of the space industry then so why not him? He was more directly responsible.

    As for there being no launch failures since 2018 when he was made head of Roscosmos. Well. Roscosmos hasn't launched any new rocket type since either!
    If you don't innovate, sure, you'll have way less chances of failures.
    The fraction of Proton launches versus Soyuz launches has also gone down and Soyuz has historically been a more reliable rocket.
    Is this a good thing? Not when Proton has conceded the commercial satellite launch segment it had with International Launch Services (ILS) to Falcon 9.

    In the late 1990s ILS was getting the brunt of the commercial satellite launch segment taking market share away from both US and European launch providers.
    Everyone thought the segment would be dominated by Russia over the next decade. Then Russia took forever to develop Angara and neither reduced costs further nor improved launch reliability.

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    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:27 pm

    Was Rogozin that pushed for a super-holding in hypersonic systems, he got what he wanted with Raduga and NPO Mashinostroyena being under the same umbrella.
    Russia wouldn't be so comfortable in the hypersonic lead if it wasn't him.
    He also called for a Russian DARPA, we got the Advanced Research foundation.
    Russia owes a lot to him.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:53 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    lancelot wrote:Roscosmos hasn't launched any new rocket type since either!
    If you don't innovate, sure, you'll have way less chances of failures.
    Angara-A5 was launched in December 2020.
    Is it no longer new enough for you?

    There was an Angara-A5 launch in December 2014 as well.
    Like I said Rogozin did no new rocket type launches yet.

    Scorpius wrote:
    lancelot wrote:Not when Proton has conceded the commercial satellite launch segment it had with International Launch Services (ILS) to Falcon 9.
    You must bring here some data that supports your statements, or do not use unsubstantiated statements. The space launch market? If this market existed, no commercial launch from 1990 to 2012 would have been carried out on any carrier rocket other than Russian ones. However, there were many rocket launches that cost many times more than a Proton, Zenith, or Soyuz launch. In addition, there is no struggle for the market. The Americans announced a complete ban on satellite launches on Russian missiles. Do you consider these competitive market methods?

    ILS launched dozens of missions with Proton. ILS did more commercial satellite launches than European and US launch services at that time. Starsem also did several Soyuz launches.

    You seem to think launch price is the only thing which matters in the market. But there are other factors as well. Insurance cost is a major factor and Proton has traditionally had higher insurance costs than Ariane 5. Because of launch failures. Also worse scheduling availability. That is why Ariane 5 survived for so long as it did. Falcon 9 basically killed both Proton and Ariane 5 commercial launches. This is fact. Just look at the launches of Proton, Ariane 5, and Falcon 9.

    The American ban on Russian satellite launches has no impact on other clients. Eutelsat for example used to launch satellites on Proton and Ariane 5 and now they use Falcon 9 as well.
    Heck Turkmenistan launched a satellite on Falcon 9 with a European satellite bus.

    AFAIK US ITAR sanctions on Russian space launches only started in 2021. i.e. this year.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:55 pm

    And Elon Musk wouldn't be anywhere if he didn't get the $3B of subsidies and free tech from NASA.

    Rogozin is rather new at roscosmos and is fixing the fuckuos from 1999 till now.  I know for a fact you aren't even half the man he is.  I would like to know your credentials.

    He is repairing a company that was a husk.  It takes longer than you think.  2018 till now he has been in roscosmos. And there will be 4 angaras this year with two launches and two early next year.  Pretty good considering the organization was barely alive with embezzlements everywhere in the rocket industry till 2018 and so many people ended up going to jail.

    As said, for America to be competitive, they ban shit.

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:51 pm

    Scorpius wrote:...Dmitry Rogozin himself defended his dissertation and received the title of Doctor of Technical Sciences...

    Oh suuuuuure, I can already see him burning the midnight oil as he is hitting the books lol1

    Totally not a bogus dissertation Razz



    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:46 am

    miketheterrible wrote:And Elon Musk wouldn't be anywhere if he didn't get the $3B of subsidies and free tech from NASA.


    That would be per year from the US government. Not a one time windfall from NASA. Musk is a US MIC contractor.

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:18 am

    Talking bollocks thread #3 - Page 38 Dream_10

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:19 am

    miketheterrible wrote:And Elon Musk wouldn't be anywhere if he didn't get the $3B of subsidies and free tech from NASA.

    Rogozin is rather new at roscosmos and is fixing the fuckuos from 1999 till now.  I know for a fact you aren't even half the man he is.  I would like to know your credentials.

    He is repairing a company that was a husk.  It takes longer than you think.  2018 till now he has been in roscosmos. And there will be 4 angaras this year with two launches and two early next year.  Pretty good considering the organization was barely alive with embezzlements everywhere in the rocket industry till 2018 and so many people ended up going to jail.

    As said, for America to be competitive, they ban shit.

    Other companies in the USA also had access to a lot more subsidies than that and free tech from NASA and went nowhere.
    Do you see Boeing Starliner in service? Perhaps you should read how much NASA paid Boeing for Starliner and how much they paid SpaceX for Dragon V2.
    NASA awarded Boeing $4.2 billion USD and SpaceX $2.6 billion USD.
    NASA also made things a lot easier for Boeing requiring less tests before it could be used for manned flight. Tests which cost money and time.
    A lot of people in the industry think the idea was to make sure Boeing would get a capsule into the station before SpaceX. Boeing still failed.

    As for my credentials I'll only tell you I have better technical credentials than Rogozin. I am not a deputy prime minister who got a PhD from a government school while he was in office. It does not matter either because I am not a specialist in the space industry.

    As for Angara launches this year I'll be waiting sitting down for those four launches.
    Even the Russian military doesn't trust the rocket enough to put a precious satellite on it. Pathetic.
    This makes it at least three launches with mass simulators.

    With regards to US bans the Russian space industry lost the segment way before the bans were put into place. If anyone should complain about US bans it would be the Chinese.
    Yet the Chinese managed to surpass both the US and Russia in number of launches.

    You complain about SpaceX getting state subsidies. I am sure Russian launch providers get zero money from the Russian military industrial complex then.
    How many of the launches Proton and Soyuz made were military launches? Even NASA paid for several Soyuz launches.
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    Post  kvs Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:24 pm

    Note the pattern. When Russia has a great leader, Putin, or great technocrat, Rogozin, you have foaming at the mouth criticism hurled
    at them. When you have rotten compardors, Yeltsin, or corrupt incompetents, previous head of Roscosmos, you either hear nothing
    or even praise. And as with Yeltsin and Putin, you see in this thread pathetic attacks on Rogozin trying to attribute to him the failures
    of his predecessor(s). According to swine like Nahalny, Putin introduced corruption into Russia and all the problems left behind by Yeltsin
    from the 1990s are all Putin's fault. We even have the endlessly cited "report" by "Reporters Without Borders" or some other NATzO shill
    outfit that counts journalist deaths in Russia through the 1990s, including those that died in the 1996 Chechnya operation bungled by
    Yeltsin, and attributes them as "victims of Putin's regime". The exact same propaganda drivel is being pushed in this thread.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:44 am

    My years enveloped in western propaganda, I have learned that the biggest enemies and biggest world problems are competent leaders that wont conform to the west, and most of the accusations are generally picked from a list of their own crimes... makes them sound more realistic as an accusation I guess.

    So when western media screams that Putin and Russia are destroying the planet you know who really did it... if Putin and others really were incompetent or crooked then they could be fooled or bought.... start to worry when they stop complaining about them...

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    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:31 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:...Dmitry Rogozin himself defended his dissertation and received the title of Doctor of Technical Sciences...

    Oh suuuuuure, I can already see him burning the midnight oil as he is hitting the books lol1

    Totally not a bogus dissertation Razz


    Do you have any concrete facts that would allow you to call this thesis a fake? If not , then don't open your mouth about it. Absolutely any dissertation can be called fake, absolutely any person can be accused of anything. The accusation is not a fact. In 99% of cases, the accusation is a lie from an intellectually dishonest person.
    So, do you have the FACTS?

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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:24 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:...Dmitry Rogozin himself defended his dissertation and received the title of Doctor of Technical Sciences...

    Oh suuuuuure, I can already see him burning the midnight oil as he is hitting the books lol1

    Totally not a bogus dissertation Razz


    Do you have any concrete facts that would allow you to call this thesis a fake? If not , then don't open your mouth about it. Absolutely any dissertation can be called fake, absolutely any person can be accused of anything. The accusation is not a fact. In 99% of cases, the accusation is a lie from an intellectually dishonest person.
    So, do you have the FACTS?

    Fact is that he is a flat eather moron who proven himself to be retarded on numerous occasions as is still doing it daily

    He fucked up everything he ever touched and was demoted to his current job so Borisov could come in and fix his fuckups in MIC

    He is a disgraced well connected political hot potato and sacrificing space program was seen as acceptable trade off to fix MIC which is more vital to national security

    As for his "dissertation" you can buy those anywhere you want for next to nothing, if you need one I can get you a number




    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:34 pm

    I recall Putin's thesis being called fake. Funny how clowns who have basically a high school level of education are passing
    judgement on people with PhDs. Jealousy may have something to do with this. A pathetic compensation reaction to their
    deep feelings of inadequacy.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:51 pm

    Any PhD attributed while someone is in political office is always highly suspect.
    Politicians who are or were recently in positions of power can easily leverage their connections to get a diploma.

    I know about this having been in academia myself and seeing how it operates behind the scenes.
    In the best of cases these politicians are highly coached and coddled to get their degree.
    In the worst of cases they simply pay someone else to ghostwrite their thesis and it is totally bogus.

    Anyway this is immaterial. Even in the case where people do have academic credentials they might simply be terrible leaders.
    One example would be former NASA administrator Michael Griffin.
    He does not lack diplomas but as a leader of NASA he was a total failure pushing the institution into the failed Ares I/V rockets.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:45 pm

    Where is there any information about either Putin or Rogozin getting their degrees while in office? Some people can take three to four years
    off to go back and do PhD research. The question is whether the topic is given to them by their supervising prof on a platter.
    My experience is that I had to find my own topic and do the work. Meanwhile I saw others in a different venue getting juicy
    research topics handed to them. This is not a trivial technicality. It is the difference between a dead end and a PhD in under
    four years. I would say that getting the right choice of topic amounts to at least 50% of any PhD. Once you have experience
    it becomes easier, but not right after getting an undergraduate degree.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:29 am

    Any PhD attributed while someone is in political office is always highly suspect.

    Hahaha... reminds me of Billy Connolly... his wife is a Kiwi... Pamela Stephenson who was in comedies in the 1970s like not the nine oclock news and other things and she went to university and earned degrees in various subjects including psychology, for which she worked years to achieve.

    Billy made a bit of a joke about how she would have friends from her university times who would come over and chat about old times and and with a bit of nostalgia talk about all the work they had to do to get their degrees.

    He would mention to her about his really hard day at university that he spent receiving an honorary degree just to wind her up.

    The irony is that many people doing degrees can get cross credit for real world experience too so if you are doing some degree that requires a management paper has to be done if you happened to manage a real shop or farm or some other thing in the real world you can sometimes get that credited without having to sit that paper because your real world experience means you already know most of what that paper would cover.

    In that sense a doctorate in comedy where someone has spent 70 odd years of his life being funny on stage as a profession that making him sit and take exams is a little churlish... his career pretty much proves he knows what he is talking about.

    Of course an honorary degree in brain surgery is another matter...

    I am going to move the Anti Rogozin campaign material from this thread soon including this post... when I do there is to be no further rubbish about it on this thread.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:21 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    I am going to move the Anti Rogozin campaign material from this thread soon including this post... when I do there is to be no further rubbish about it on this thread.


    +1 and its about time thumbsup

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    Post  Vann7 Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:58 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Spektr-RG completed the third survey of the entire sky. 

    For those unfamiliar with the mission, the German contribution eROSITA is designed for the 0.2-10 keV energy band, and has produced results such as the following all-sky map.  Really quite spectacular Very Happy

    Talking bollocks thread #3 - Page 38 Ea3d0f10

    The Russian scope ART-XC is designed for high energy X-rays in the 6-30 keV band and is mainly a hunter of supermassive blackholes.  Its images may be less visually spectacular but no less scientifically important.

    Talking bollocks thread #3 - Page 38 Art_ma10

    Spektr-RG is a great example of how international space programs should functions.  A Russian spacecraft, carrying a German scope, and the Russian scope using US-built grazing-incidence mirrors.  Too bad the fuktarded corrupt nature of Murikan and Eurostani politics is threatening such worthy endeavours....  angry  


    Too bad that the west is so corrupt ?   Rolling Eyes

    This is the most lamest way to see the problem , why not say too bad that the idiot president choose to follow the west? and their system?

     is like saying too bad criminals do crimes , but why the hell you don't stop them ?
    Imaging you lacking of transportation and your neighbor use his own car to give you transportation ,but later you complain how he drives?    why not buy your own car so you don't depend on others?

     The real bad here , is the thing putin's fanclub will never say , too bad the fucktard president of Russia have chosen to develop his country in the most lamest and laziest lowest risk way possible ,
    a third world country economic model , like venezuela , depending on energy sales ,food exports and mining , most of their economy. And only development of military ,but with a very limited development of soviet space industry and almost no development in every other place.

    Too bad , that a fucktard  incompetent president in Russia ,who have done almost nothing of true nation development during his 21 years in power to end Russia dependence on the west.  China 20 years ago was a farmers economy and mining economy with some plastic toys manufacturing capabilities , and it have earned nearly total independence from the west in the following 15 years. While Russia under putin not even have smartphones for their military..  lol1  

    Russia’s Defense Ministry will develop home-made secure smartphone & ‘digital ecosystem’ for soldiers working on military bases
    https://www.rt.com/russia/526935-mod-home-made-secure-smartphone/

    21 years after putin in power , still that idiot haven't being able to provide now even his own military with a personal phone they can safely use ,not dependent of technology of the west.. Rolling Eyes

    Being a fanboy of incompetent government , is not how they will become better , it actually encourage them to continue to be idiots , when people applaud their mistakes. Putin's Russia independence project is only with words and not with actions. Russia is so outdated in modern
    technology business ,for only one reason , because the fucktard president ,have spend more of the
    russian budget in transforming russia into the saudi arabia of Asia , building pipelines and in olympic distractions and every other business and scientific investment have been nearly non existent.
    They even allowed their own business in smartphones (yotaphone) to leave the country . but if it was
    a sport event opportunity , they will have not allowed it to pass.  No  

    When you have a government run by fucktard idiots , the end result is a nation that is stagnated on its economy  and that its development  is heavily dependent on the help from other countries.  China already have its own space station , a rover in the moon and another in mars , with orbiters in both , and they produce 100% of their own satellites tech too , and they were way behind Russia in business and tech development just 20 years ago.  Too bad , that Russia is run by fools , that can't see beyond their noses , and holds back the true development of Russia , not only in space but in every other important area of civilians high tech industry, means that Russia do close to zero contributions to the world development , when it comes to what they could do using only their own tech , and depends on the west or china for anything important , for the world.  

    Some will said , lets give putin more time , another 20 years ,for Russia to become "technology independent" , but don't hope for anything ,with that fool , in power , he is totally disconnected
    to what his nation really needs.  A True leader ,that understand what the society needs and how to counter the nation adversaries , seeking to break it in many pieces.


    Now in more reality news..  ..
    to dispel the propaganda in this forums of "Russia doing great" in space.

    Russia to U.S. -Lift sanctions on space sector or we'll exit space station




    MOSCOW, June 7 (Reuters) - The head of Russia's space agency on Monday suggested Moscow would withdraw from the International Space Station in 2025 unless Washington lifted sanctions on the space sector that were hampering Russian satellite launches.


    Rogozin said ...
    Moscow was struggling to launch some of its satellites because of U.S. sanctions which meant Russia could not import certain microchip sets needed for its space programme.


    "We have more than enough rockets but nothing to launch them with," Rogozin said, in a rare admission by a senior Russian official that Western sanctions are seriously impeding the development of a given industry.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-us-lift-sanctions-space-sector-or-well-exit-space-station-2021-06-07/

    So  Russia development of space is not doing so Great  ...  and is not just the chief director of Russia
    space program , but its own cosmonauts have told it , that the (fucktard) government is focused in distractions and not in space . two top Russians cosmonauts resigning from what is supposed to be the most prestigious job in the entire country , is nothing short of a tragedy that speak volumes of the disaster of putin's space program.

    haha.. this is why i like Rogozin.. if it wasn't by him , nobody will know of any problems at all going
    in Russia space program , this is the kind of people Russia needs, those that take internet to openly
    expose the not so great things happening in their space program.  


    "We have more than enough rockets but nothing to launch them with


    This is the fucktard president vision of "import substitution program" in action , 7 years later ,after the west began sanctions on western advanced tech on russia and putin announced the program in 2014 .  russia   lol1  lol1

    So is no wonders , Russia is lagging so much the west in satellites ,computers , telescopes , that depends on europe or US or china for any high tech ,and the only thing the moron president can do is rockets, and nukes ,  lots of rockets , but lacks of technology necessary to put anything important inside them..   lol1  lol1  lol1


    From sabotages , from lack of supervision of people changing manuals ,from cutting the budget of space in half by the fucktard president, from  employees not being paid  more months , to resignations of cosmonauts . The common denominator in all this problems is the decadence of Russia space program have been going for a long time , and this is the reason ,why russia is so
    sorry nation today in space , late and demoralized workers ,cosmonauts and managers , consequence of a bad government funding and miss-management .


    The changes Russia needs so desperately ,cannot be implemented with an ignorant and fool as president in power , that is the greatest demoralizer of the nation and focus the budget in the nation in artificial /cosmetical development of luxury churches and parks , and hosting epenis  sports events.  In just 5 Years , i will not be surprised if russia collapse the soviet union way again and putin forced to flee the country and seek refuge in belarus or china. There is already millions of mass exodus of russians from the nation in the last five years since sanctios began and it will only get worse with time ,the longer Russia continue be run by clueless people ,that don't know the big mistakes they doing.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:02 am

    Blah blah blah... so it is Putin and Rogozins fault that cooperating with the US is being hampered by US sanctions against a range of Russian companies and organisations they use to put things in space.

    I would think if you are cooperating with someone to get a job done but you refuse to cooperate with some of the people the person you are working with knows or works with then the problem is yours and if they say they can't work with you if you won work with these people then that is just normal.

    The US head of NASA saying Russia and the US work well together and should continue to work together makes it all a big joke when the US refuses to work with companies that operate mission command in Russia that manages flights and space operations for Russia... I mean DUH how fucked up is that?

    But because it is putin and rogozins fault it can live here.

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:53 am


    It is very difficult to compare nation against nation. I think Russia will be very similar to Russia, with or without some politician. But Russia will not be the same as Russia without it's cold climate or vast open spaces. The physical and material conditions determine development and culture. Although modern life brings equal expectations for all peoples.

    It is like the desert. Only productive in good weather, when the rain comes. And the desert flower blooms. It blooms rarely. Reproduction is slow. That is why in such climates, human reproduction is slow also. Women wear clothing to conceal.

    Where you need 6000 calories to survive in the cold, and you need heated homes, then life is hard. Economic growth is slower, and needs a greater amount of social cohesion and capital. The economic forms will be different. Society will look different.

    Space becomes useless quickly. Already they are thinking of using ISS for tourism. Not much propaganda value these days either. Must have economic value. Communications or defence or agriculture. Any minerals on the moon?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:46 am

    Actually space is important because one way to solve most of the problems of extreme cold in Siberia... ie not make it warmer, but create a set of clothes and buildings and vehicles that allow you to not just survive but live comfortably in such cold conditions will make quality of life no matter where you are much better.

    People wank on about global warming and floods and super hurricanes and the sea rising and all that shit, well that has happened in the past and it will happen in the future and will continue to happen no matter what we do.

    If the gulf stream stops taking warm water up past europe then that large heavily populated region is going to freeze like Canada and Siberia and when that happens all of a sudden these new clothes and building designs and vehicles are going to become manditory in many places unless you want to move to some of these war zones these rich europeans have created in the rest of the world.

    Increased temperatures will be a problem, but so will ice ages... and in the longer term they will be coming too.

    Work on space exploration includes surviving in the vacuum of space recycling everything and keeping waste to an actual minimum... if we did that on earth now the planet would be in a much better condition.

    Work on trying to send people to live on Mars means buildings and vehicles and clothing for temperatures of minus 100 degrees up to about minus 30 degrees which is not that much different to Siberia now... but who knows what it will be during an ice age?

    The atmosphere of Mars is about 95% carbon dioxide, but it is thin less than 1% of earths atmosphere so the greenhouse effect does not kick in.

    Some method of extracting solid carbon from both carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide would be fantastic because it would allow humans on Mars to extract pure carbon for making carbon nanotubes and solid carbon based material and the byproduct would be pure oxygen which they could also use.

    The point is that all the equipment and technology man will need to survive on Mars or the Moon could be applied to living in cold areas on Earth, and for many countries that might become important in their near future.

    The gulf stream reversing and freezing Europe could lead to a gulf stream from the Pacific ocean making Japan and China and Korea and Alaska and Siberia much more moderate in terms of climate.

    New Zealand is surrounded by Ocean so our climate is very moderate, if you flipped us up into Europe we would be in the Mediterranean sea.

    In comparison the UK would be half way between New Zealand and Antarctica...
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:03 am

    I would discount Greta type activists and their views on global warming. I have had encounters with these zealots on other fora. But I would
    also not be dismissive of global warming and appeal to variability.

    Greenland was mostly melted 125,000 years ago because the orbital configuration Earth meant more Northern Hemisphere sunshine than today.
    That Eemian interglacial is not relevant today. It did not break the glaciation cycle because it did not change the CO2 levels. It is important
    to note that the CO2 in the atmosphere and oceans has to be taken into account. During cooling periods more CO2 partitions into the oceans
    which contributes to cooling. So we had the atmospheric CO2 oscillating between 180 ppmv and 320 ppmv. That is not "variability", that
    is a deterministic dynamical system. The only reason we entered the ice age about 3.3. million years ago was because the CO2 fell below 400 ppmv
    due to long term uptake through chemical weathering (reaction of carbonic acid in rain with rocks). Volcanism has been a driver of CO2 in the
    atmosphere-ocean system since the beginning and has slowed down over time.

    We had the "trap" events in Siberia and South Asia (India colliding with Asia) that were active volcanic activity for millions of years accumulating
    CO2 enough to cause global warming events and mass extinctions. But today the CO2 is being injected by humans at over 30 billion (with a b)
    tons per year compared to an average of 600 million (with an m) from volcanoes. Current CO2 levels are 410 ppmv. If you add in the human
    excess in N2O, NOx and ozone, and CH4, the CO2-equivalent number is 490 ppmv. This is hard core climate change forcing. Just because it
    takes decades for the system to spin up does not mean that this is some "noise" of no concern. We have not seen such high greenhouse gas
    load since the Miocene which was 15 million years ago.

    In the coming decades we can expect the disappearance of all the major land ice outside of Antarctica and Greenland. This is an epic disaster
    all by itself since Himalayan glaciers are a prime source of water needed by humans. Some desalination plants are not going to fix this problem
    and would need to massive in scale to provide irrigation and to avoid more CO2 release would need to be nuclear powered. We have no evidence
    of such fixes being economically accessible when everything is operating on margins. Like the kooky idea of converting every car in America to
    be electric by 2035 which requires a 1 GigaWatt nuclear power plant to be built every 3 weeks starting now.

    But the fun is just getting started. The current warming will not merely disappear because in some delusional spasm we pretend that humans
    stop emitting CO2 tomorrow. The process of cryosphere CO2 and CH4 release has started. It is self sustaining because current CO2 levels
    would take centuries to attenuate even if we could stop our (non breathing) emissions. Permafrost is melting both on land and in the shallow
    Siberia shelf where it is a relic of the last glacial maximum. This permafrost is sequestering enough CH4 and CO2 to load the system to keep
    out of the ice age and in hot regime for over 200,000 years. The oceans are rapidly losing their CO2 absorption capacity. There is 50 times more
    dissolved CO2 in the oceans than there is in the atmosphere. The current, accelerating trends indicate that the oceans will become net CO2
    sources as opposed to sinks even before 2100. So we have continued cryosphere CO2 and CH4 release making sure that the oceans start degassing
    as well. This is a true nightmare since we are assured of entering another major warming event and extinction period last seen 55 million years
    ago during the Eocene.

    We are no longer in the Holocene or ice age, we are now in the Anthropocene which is here to stay for at least 200,000 years but more likely a
    million years. The 200,000 estimate is based on just the permafrost melt contribution. It does not take into account clathrate melt and severe
    degassing of the oceans.

    BTW, the often repeated Gulf Stream warming claim is BS. The Gulf Stream accounts for 15% of Europe's warmth. But a shutdown of the
    deep, salt-driven component of the thermohaline circulation (THC) in the North Atlantic will not shut down shallower heat transport in the
    near surface ocean waters which is going to operate as long as the winds blow and the Sun shines. It is a fundamental circulation that
    also exists in the atmosphere (in the stratosphere it is known as the Brewer-Dobson circulation). The dynamics of the circulation in the
    ocean are not something completely different. The essential elements are the Coriolis torque and the action of waves of all types not
    just surface waves (the wave mean flow interaction). Global warming is coming at us faster than any cooling from a reconfiguration of the
    THC.

    I would not be so optimistic about Russia getting a windfall from global warming. In the short term, there may be some benefit. In the long
    term humanity is fcuked.

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    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:24 pm

    lancelot wrote:
    You complain about SpaceX getting state subsidies. I am sure Russian launch providers get zero money from the Russian military industrial complex then.
    How many of the launches Proton and Soyuz made were military launches? Even NASA paid for several Soyuz launches.

    Speaking of which. Military orders are actually paid at cost, Roscosmos does not receive any significant profit on them. That is why commercial orders are the only way for Roscosmos to make a profit. In the US, on the contrary, military orders are where sometimes 200% of the profit is laid. Accordingly, each military order from SpaceX allows them to give a dumping price for two or three commercial orders. Good old-fashioned dumping, designed to destroy any competitors in the market. This is what the United States has been doing throughout its history. There is no question of any competition here.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:10 am

    Speaking of which. Military orders are actually paid at cost, Roscosmos does not receive any significant profit on them. That is why commercial orders are the only way for Roscosmos to make a profit. In the US, on the contrary, military orders are where sometimes 200% of the profit is laid. Accordingly, each military order from SpaceX allows them to give a dumping price for two or three commercial orders. Good old-fashioned dumping, designed to destroy any competitors in the market. This is what the United States has been doing throughout its history. There is no question of any competition here.

    And they do it across the board... Boeing would not be nearly as competitive if it didn't have lots of cushy military contracts to fall back on to sell planes when civilian sales are not going at 100%, and as you mention the margin on military sales is enormous.

    When I was at university I had a lecturer who was in the Singapore Air Force in the IT section during the 1980s... his speciality was design... called HCI or human computer interaction... meaning making computers physically and conceptually easier to use by designing the software to essentially replicate the way they did things, and of course to make using computers easier.

    He mentioned that they decided they needed a kill switch for their desktop computers... if their unit was overrun something taht would immediately destroy all the information on the hard drive to prevent its capture by the enemy. Their American suppliers suggested a covered switch on the keyboard you could flip away a cover and push a button and the harddrive would start erasing everything.... it would only cost $1,000 US dollars per keyboard to have them made.

    What they ended up doing was getting two pieces of coloured tape which were placed on the side of the computer box indicating where the hard drive was located.... in the case the unit was overrun each soldier had a 45 calibre automatic pistol and was to fire two shots through the Hard drive as indicated by the tape... much cheaper and was cleared and implemented before the end of that day.

    I would not be so optimistic about Russia getting a windfall from global warming. In the short term, there may be some benefit. In the long
    term humanity is fcuked.

    Even if we somehow solve the current carbon emissions problems climate change is normal, so we are going to have to adapt and start working together...

    Vann can go on all day about some conspiracy about killing x percentage of the worlds population with vaccines, but this is a real issue that we need to be able to deal with.

    Imagine the irony of the seed and DNA banks the west is creating all over the world if a mix of biological outbreak with a majority of anti vaxxers leading to it killing people every year for the next 50 years, together with a bit of climate change where crops fail and there are enormous food shortages and food distribution problems leads to wars, and then a decent sized asteroid hits us and causes a global dust cloud that leads to a nuclear winter without the nuclear war for 5 years that really kills off large sections of the population...

    It is not rocket science to know if we are going to treat every rock in space like we are currently treating this planet perhaps the universe is better of without us.
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:02 pm

    Finty wrote:Another article regarding the Ks in Syria

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/41276/russian-mig-31s-armed-with-anti-ship-ballistic-missiles-join-tu-22m3-bombers-in-syria


    FFS... read the comments section if you want further evidence that Western readers are the dumbest fukwitz on this 3rd rock...  These congentital inbred idiots just have no friggin idea Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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