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    Talking bollocks thread #3

    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:20 pm

    Vann7 wrote:The master in incompetence of Putin's government, have done exactly the same mistakes of maduro and chaves ,but taken to a whole new level ,in a most embarrassing way.
    It's not about Putin. Even if someone replaces Putin tomorrow the results will not be much different. Because as I've mentioned in a few of my other older posts, there are Deep State actors most notably the House of Windsor and a few US-Zionist groups who control leaders of every single country. Putin is just a pawn. He will have to do what he is asked to.

    Ask yourself this question. Several Russian oligarchs siphoned off billions of $$ of Russian taxpayers money and fled to U.K. Given the massive power that Putin has at his disposal don't you think he can grab each of these economic fugitives and drag them back to Russia? Why do you think he doesn't? Because he can't. Deep State controls Putin as well.

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:30 pm

    The reality is that most nations, if confronted by a Turkish “drone swarm,” would not fare well.

    Swarm would be true if they had 1000 drones at the same time in the air attacking.

    TB2 were operating alone or by 2 or 3. They succeeded only because armenians had poor AD.

    In Syria when SAA brought buks and pantsirs they were falling from the skies and stoped their operations.

    Why they succeed is also because none of armenians, LNA or SAA attacked directly the Turks and the operating bases of the drones which need an airport to be used.

    If they did really fight a real country/militaru they would have done nothing. The attack on turkish AD in Libya by a powerfull army (Egypt/UAE) shows that turks are no more than targets.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:16 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:The master in incompetence of Putin's government, have done exactly the same mistakes of maduro and chaves ,but taken to a whole new level ,in a most embarrassing way.
    It's not about Putin. Even if someone replaces Putin tomorrow the results will not be much different. Because as I've mentioned in a few of my other older posts, there are Deep State actors most notably the House of Windsor and a few US-Zionist groups who control leaders of every single country. Putin is just a pawn. He will have to do what he is asked to.

    Ask yourself this question. Several Russian oligarchs siphoned off billions of $$ of Russian taxpayers money and fled to U.K. Given the massive power that Putin has at his disposal don't you think he can grab each of these economic fugitives and drag them back to Russia? Why do you think he doesn't? Because he can't. Deep State controls Putin as well.  


    Sujoy deteriorating to Vann's level of mental degeneracy....go check yourselves in to the nearest mental hospital. lol1

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    medo
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    Post  medo Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:23 pm

    Isos wrote:
    The reality is that most nations, if confronted by a Turkish “drone swarm,” would not fare well.

    Swarm would be true if they had 1000 drones at the same time in the air attacking.

    TB2 were operating alone or by 2 or 3. They succeeded only because armenians had poor AD.

    In Syria when SAA brought buks and pantsirs they were falling from the skies and stoped their operations.

    Why they succeed is also because none of armenians, LNA or SAA attacked directly the Turks and the operating bases of the drones which need an airport to be used.

    If they did really fight a real country/militaru they would have done nothing. The attack on turkish AD in Libya by a powerfull army (Egypt/UAE) shows that turks are no more than targets.

    This is big mistake, thinking TB2 operate alone. Absolutely not, if they operate alone, they are quickly shot down as we have seen in Libya, before Turkey bring Koral ECM complex. TB2 have strong support from ground based ECM complexes as Koral and Groza, jets equipped with ECM pods and E-7T flying in Turkey near Armenian border. Turkey and Israel coordinate operations of TB2 with hundreds of other recce and kamikaze drones. Azerbaijan operate Harop, Skystriker and Orbiter-1K kamikaze drones together with other recce drones.

    Artsakh have old soviet air defense complexes Osa, Strela-10, Shilka and MANPADS Igla and Igla-S. Problem was, that they are not integrated in modern IADS as non have data link to share radar picture and target delivering. Any unit was on its own. Considering combat environment, Artsakh air defense worked quite well and bring results. They shot down many drones, TB2 included and help their army to defend and survive until war end and Russian army came in Artsakh.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:05 am

    I think they both give some organisations and groups way to much credit.

    Just like so many Democrats and UK dickheads think everything is putin... putin hacked the elections, putin is poisoning homeless people in the UK with top standard military nerve agents designed for battlefield use to kill enormous numbers of people...
    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:22 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:I consider Vann7, aka Chicken-Little, with his infinite schizophrenia  an endless source of comedic entertainment! Razz

    The reality is U.S./NATO SAMs perform far worse against drones. Iranian drones had to be within 20km to do this  Embarassed :


    Compare and contrast:

    1.) Syrian and NK forces struggled against drones while greatly deprived of resources with a shoe-string budget

    2.) US and Saudi forces struggled against drones with no end to their resources and with huge over-inflated budgets.

    Now let's use some context, and judge their performances now?


    1) Syria had everything from Russia and the best electronic warfare on earth according to Russia
    and still fails miserably to stop israel few missiles attacks every week. more than 2,000 thousands of
    effective strikes have done israel on syria on the nose of putin. So don't make bullshit excuses for Russian military about syrian budget..Russia have provided syria with enough air defenses there to shot down a hundred of planes. yet they can't handle a dozen of missile attacks of israel in syria without half of them penetrating their air defeneses.

    and in the nagorno karabah war...Russia provided also everything armenia did to defend itself..
    and the performance of russia air defenses in defending not only NK but also armenia itself. .was
    a disaster.. the ignorants talks about how "amernia was defeated" , yet the real defeat happened
    in the skies ,to the russian air defenses.. because the armenians did outscored azerbaijan in ground
    fighting when there was no drones present.. but as soon turkey get rid in the first week of vast majority of the air defenses of armenia ,that the russian incompetent military setup for them..
    it was shooting gallery for turkey drones on armenian and nagorno troops..  i posted even a video before how the very latest TOR system of defense.. was completely destroyed and their operators..
    Russian officers.. killed by turkey drones and all filmed on camera.. that was the most humiliating thing of all. .

    so the biggest loser was not armenia in the nagorno war.. the real biggest loser here was the image
    of the Russian military ,was put to complete shame ,by the turkey and israel drones.. they even shot down a russian helicopter that was not even part of the conflict... with a shitty man pad.. so what is the fucking excuse now ,that russian military helicopter can't defend against manpads?  didn't russia
    had electronic protection against those?  No  

    and in syria Russia top spy plane was shotdown and that wasn't done by mistake as putin the chicken claimed.. it was provoed intentionally shot down by israel.. most likely a happy trigger pilot ,but the official story was that israel "hide behind the russian plane" , something denied by syrian military who operated their s-200s. So in the end the incompetent president putin and his selected incompetent military to have been struggling very seriously in syria to defend their airspace , and this is not against swarm of thousands of drones or not even a hundred.. the russian military have failed miserably consistently to help syria protect their airspace for the past 5 fucking years.. because those israel missiles strikes always enter , about half of them..  and hit their intended targets.. so it means
    that just like i was warning Russian for many years ,in this very same s-400 thread.. that the military trainning and tactics are completely obsolete for modern wars.. and the nagorno karabah conflict fully confirmed that.  in the most brutal and painful way possible.. those soldiers operating TOR that turkey destroyed were 100% Russian officers of the russian military.. and they were sent to their death by the incompetence of the russian military ,thinking their air defenses are incapable to handle swarm of modern drones that was likely operated by turkish experienced staff .

    So i have bad news for you , Russia was the big loser in the armenian war.. their military was
    the laughing stock of the world there ,by the pro turkish factions and the muslim in the world backing them.  because armenia only lost a small tiny piece of land.. but Russia military if it had any remaining dignity left , they will recognize that their military hardware and tactics versus NATO was totally outdated.  Hopefully MR GaryB will recognize the day , i came to this forum years ago to question Russia S-400s and s-300s versus NATO airforce capabilities, because all those trainning exercises i always see of russian military are always the same.. they shot down a few fake targets ,planes very high altitude in the air.. and thats it , that's their trainning.. and i warned about it many years ago..  that Russia will not have a way to secure its airspace unless it develop air defenses that can defeat swarm of drones . i used to think ,that russia electronic warfare was good enough for that..to fix the holes of s-300 and s-400 when countering major missiles or drones attacks, but the nagorno war proved me wrong , they lost s-300s ,patsirs ,tors and even iskanders too..  according to azerbaijan and they show videos of their destruction and russia not even debate this claims.

    2)when it comes to the "iranian attack" on saudi oil fields.. this was an inside job ,done by saudis
    to justify a war against iran.. a bait that saudis launch to see if americans will bomb iran.

    ------------------------------------
    and...

    3) when it comes to american air defenses of their warships ,versus iranian drones in hormus strech
     this is a totally pointless comparison ,because US navy have to travel over a very small water passway that is 10km of distance of iranian borders.. so iran by flying over its own airspace ,can take pictures anyway of those warships that close.. so this proof nothing of iranian capabilities with drones.. iran capabilities are way outdated in drones..   russian drones program is a million times superior than the iranian one.. and probably russian long range attack drones in terms of technology are ahead already of the american ones.. and this is probably the only positive thing to say about
    the russian airforce today.. when it comes to drones.. that is moving in the right direction and doing significant progress ,albeit at a very slow rate and it remains in question if russia can afford to mass produce them in meaningful numbers.

    4)when it comes to the iranian attack with drones on saudi arabia refineries , this was all an inside job operation. that saudis did ,to encourage trump to start a war against iran..  still when it comes
    to air defenses.. the russian ones as outdated they are ,to handle drones ,can end being a bit better than the american patriots defenses.  

    So whats the problem for russia then ,if russian air defenses like s-400s and s-300s and pantsirs
    are still a bit better ,than the american patriots ones?

    The huge problem problem is that ..
    1) americans don't need air defenses at all.. is an offensive military.. and it don't have enemies on their borders.. other than alaska. and also contrary to russia.. the US military knows very well ,putin is weak ,a chicken and will not dare ever to attack americans first.. in case of any war. this is completely different to US that have attacked russian bases many times and shot down russian planes many times and putin do nothing about it.. since he have no way to proof who did it..

    if for example turkey ever dares to use their drones ,in an unprovoked attack ,against any american base.. killing american soldiers ,they know they will be totally destroyed. That americans will not blink an eye to launch hundreds of cruise missiles attacks on turkey cities ,including targeting civilians. there is no politeness and putin weakness in the american side.. the bullshit is only in the putin side.

    last when it comes to the iranian attack on iraqui bases is a different thing.. they provoked iran into
    a fight and they responded.. and their damages were pretty irrelevant for US operations there. what holds US from bombing iran , is more than iran can close the hormus strait and block world economy
    for weeks or months and even when they clear it from iranian navy , iran can very easily mine it forever and make it dangerous for traffic. So is kind of similar of russia problem with turkey bosphurus strait.. the only way to keep open the strait is if russia start using nukes on turkey ,after they close it  and americans nuke iran.. and they will not want to go there unless is fully supported by their population ,that is a nuclear war.

    in more news. a new report shows the incompetence of russia air defenses in
    the nagorno war.



    Scott Ritter
    is a former US Marine Corps intelligence officer and author of 'SCORPION KING: America's Suicidal Embrace of Nuclear Weapons from FDR to Trump.' He served in the Soviet Union as an inspector implementing the INF Treaty, in General Schwarzkopf’s staff during the Gulf War, and from 1991-1998 as a UN weapons inspector. Follow him on Twitter @RealScottRitter








    One of the main lessons drawn from the Turkish drone experiences in Syria, Libya and Nagorno-Karabakh is that these conflicts were not fought against so-called “poor countries.”

    Rather, the Turks were facing off against well-equipped and well-trained forces operating equipment which closely parallels that found in most small- and medium-sized European countries. Indeed, in all three conflicts, Turkey was facing off against some of the best anti-aircraft missile defenses produced by Russia. The reality is that most nations, if confronted by a Turkish “drone swarm,” would not fare well.


    Russia military needs to go back to the drawing board.. rocket interception is outdated , they need
    something much more massive to handle waves of drones or missiles.. the return of anti air artillery ,this time armed with longer range cannons and computer /radar guided in automatic mode. they also need laser defenses mounted on trucks.. to stop drones.. there is a lot of work ,those s-400s and s-300s are outdated for real war scenarios versus heavily armed modern nations with swarm of drones.


    been a lurker for over a year but had to sign up to write a rebuttal against this farce. Armenia was defending their skies with s300, Osa, Strella, and igla anti aircraft kit. crap from the 70s to 90s. their military apparently was stuck in a late 20th century mindset of war. Russia did NOT aid Armenia except for a few mig 29 aircraft and some other equipment. no new anti aircraft or ew kit. what you are spouting is pro Turkish propaganda. a Lackey of western powers, involved in a totally one sided proxy war with the Azeris. Russia did not take the bait. better luck next time, pompous shill. Russia will not be dragged into another conflict to drain their resources. western think tanks have public info on their policy plans and coaxing an Azeri/Armenian conflict was on their list. you are part of pushing their lies and national interest tier propaganda. wont work here, lad.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:28 am

    GarryB wrote:I think they both give some organisations and groups way to much credit.

    Just like so many Democrats and UK dickheads think everything is putin... putin hacked the elections, putin is poisoning homeless people in the UK with top standard military nerve agents designed for battlefield use to kill enormous numbers of people...

    A perfume vial of novichoke would be enough to kill thousands of people according to the specifications put out by the supposed maker.
    It was supposed to be a weapon of mass battlefield destruction. Yet it can't kill the Skripals and Navalny. I think its name "novichok"
    is not chosen by Russians. Russian speakers would not call an inanimate object with a person-type adjective. To me, a native Russian speaker,
    the use of "newbie" to describe a chemical sounds idiotic. Sort of like it sounds stupid in English as well. The correct name which would
    apply the mildly sarcastic tone typical in such cases would be "novinka".

    Novichoke looks like a NATzO psyop from start to finish.

    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:56 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Sujoy deteriorating to Vann's level of mental degeneracy....go check yourselves in to the nearest mental hospital. lol1
    Sujoy went off his rocker a long time back. Therefore the question of him seeking medical help doesn't even arise. Like millions of low IQ Hindus ( https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php), he never did have the intellect for productive usage. He has only promoted falsehood and lies on this forum. To help improve the quality of posts in this forum this disgusting little fellow Sujoy needs to be banned ASAP.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:19 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Sujoy deteriorating to Vann's level of mental degeneracy....go check yourselves in to the nearest mental hospital. lol1
    Sujoy went off his rocker a long time back. Therefore the question of him seeking medical help doesn't even arise. Like millions of low IQ Hindus ( https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php), he never did have the intellect for productive usage. He has only promoted falsehood and lies on this forum. To help improve the quality of posts in this forum this disgusting little fellow Sujoy needs to be banned ASAP.

    And I also suggest that our mentally challenged inbred white-wannabe but never white-will-be future voluntarily house nigger jhelb be banned as well for being proven neo-nazi cum dumpster

    As exibit-A I present his numerous rants which have been relocated to Talking Bollocks tread over the years





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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:09 pm

    Jhelb, I'm far from being "PC" but what you write is absolutely trash. There isn't any need for such viewpoints and absolute gathered of Hindus. What is your problem with them? At least most Hindus are accepting from my experience (as I'm married to one) and while Im Christian, they are all welcoming and warm people.

    Sujoy didn't say anything that warrants such hatred. Maybe he may have a tinfoil hat on, but he is a good member of this forums and is at least not a jerk.

    I think you owe him an apology.

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    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:39 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:At least most Hindus are accepting from my experience (as I'm married to one) and while Im Christian, they are all welcoming and warm people.  
    Smile Smile Laughable, as several studies have shown they are corrupt, selfish thugs. They win contracts in Russia simply by paying bribe to government officials. Hindus enter Russia illegally every single year.

    I've already provided the link to that study that clearly states that India/Hindus are low IQ people.

    miketheterrible wrote:Sujoy didn't say anything that warrants such hatred. Maybe he may have a tinfoil hat on, but he is a good member of this forums and is at least not a jerk.
    Sujoy's contribution to this forum is confined to insinuations and groundless assumptions based on hearsay. Not surprising because he comes from a thoroughly corrupt country where people are genetically dishonest.I only defend Russia's interest on this forum. And if doing that makes me the fall guy then I'm willing to be that guy.
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    Post  franco Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:42 pm

    One of my ancestors, can't remember who, used to have a saying "You can't argue with stupid!" No

    I'm always reminded of that saying, whenever the forum degenerates into this crap Rolling Eyes

    thumbsup

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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:41 am

    been a lurker for over a year but had to sign up to write a rebuttal against this farce.

    I didn't bother, like I normally do because I think it is pretty obvious trying to equate Syrian air defence forces with Russian ones is obviously BS.

    Even before the upgrade of systems management (ie IADS) after the Israelis used a Russian plane as a meatshield the Syrian forces were a bit hit and miss despite having new systems the Israelis obviously had a good idea of where they were and what they could do and so would likely plan missions to bypass or overwhelm.

    We still don't know to what extent Russia controls the more capable systems in Syria, but we do know the air defence security of Russian forces seem to be 100% and that Iranian and Syrian forces are not so well protected.

    The point is that Israel and the US represent the top 1% of the western military capacity, and so despite not blocking every single blow the Syrians have clearly upped their game and their performance and capacity to defend themselves from what is probably the most dangerous country on the planet... Israel.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:17 am

    When you spout conspiracy theories you have to expect some negative comments... that is just a fact of life, but personal abuse is not going to be accepted on this forum.

    You can think anything at all that you like, but when you start accusing a whole group of people of different things, like being criminal or not very intelligent then... we have a problem.

    The first thing I am going to do is move a lot of this rubbish to the talking bollocks thread... I am not going to delete anything because I think it is only fair for new and current members to see what certain members have said and what they think and how that reflects on them.

    Then I am going to decide on how long each ban is going to be for each offender.

    Any apologies will be taken into account, though they have to be honest and sincere or there simply is not point.

    Laughable, as several studies have shown they are corrupt, selfish thugs.

    The head of the CIA some guy crapper or something said deception and criminality are written into Russian DNA... his statement is on record and was not challenged by anyone in the media or in the US government... which makes it true doesn't it?

    The huge irony is regarding Putin... the west hates him because they think the opposition in Russia is more like Yeltsin, but the fact is that Putin is as Yeltsin as they are going to get because the other major parties think Putin is too nice to the west and too soft on them... so effectively 70 percent of Russians like Putin... who is too pro Russia for the west to like and 28 percent of Russians want someone much worse than Putin in western terms to be in power, and between 1 and 2 percent want Navalny... who is the Yeltsen the west wants but very few Russians actually seem to take seriously.

    Is suspect the FP and Vlad don't sing the glorious praises of Putin it is because they think he is to nice to the west, which pro Russian westerners think is blasphemy because Putin has been the best thing to happen to Russia for a century or more... stalin level progress and development without the bloodshed and gulags...
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:48 am

    Like millions of low IQ Hindus ( https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php), he never did have the intellect for productive usage.

    Did you even read that?

    It claims people with the highest IQ come from places with colder climates... except if you look at their list there is no correlation between average IQ and average temperature at all... first place goes to Singapore with a daily max temperature of 31.5 degrees C... in fact the top 6 places are all rather warm places... South Korea, China and Japan clearly must have rather hot summers because they also have cold winters so their averages of just under 20 degrees for the entire year are actually rather high considering unlike Singapore they actually have winter for half a year instead of a wet season.

    Sujoy's contribution to this forum is confined to insinuations and groundless assumptions based on hearsay. Not surprising because he comes from a thoroughly corrupt country where people are genetically dishonest.I only defend Russia's interest on this forum. And if doing that makes me the fall guy then I'm willing to be that guy.

    Clearly a personal attack on a fellow member, for someone who thinks they are smarter than someone else you seem to not understand how a rules based internet discussion forum works.

    As you are volunteering to be the fall guy I will take you up on your offer and give you a week to think about what you say and how you say it.

    Notice other members were able to disagree with what he and Vann were saying without abusing them and their religion.

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    Post  Vann7 Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:36 am

    [quote="TMA1"]
    Vann7 wrote:
    been a lurker for over a year but had to sign up to write a rebuttal against this farce. Armenia was defending their skies with s300, Osa, Strella, and igla anti aircraft kit. crap from the 70s to 90s. their military apparently was stuck in a late 20th century mindset of war. Russia did NOT aid Armenia except for a few mig 29 aircraft and some other equipment. no new anti aircraft or ew kit. what you are spouting is pro Turkish propaganda. a Lackey of western powers, involved in a totally one sided proxy war with the Azeris. Russia did not take the bait. better luck next time, pompous shill. Russia will not be dragged into another conflict to drain their resources. western think tanks have public info on their policy plans and coaxing an Azeri/Armenian conflict was on their list. you are part of pushing their lies and national interest tier propaganda. wont work here, lad.

    Not true..

    Nagorno had pantsirs and tors..and s-300s.. and not only nagorno karabah was being bombed
    ,but armenian own territory was also bombed too and russia just look to the sides whenever that happens. Reality is Russia air defenses was completely owned in armenia war.. Russia even flying over
    armenia airspace lost soldiers .. so what more proof you need? Russia airforce was completely vulnerable even flying towards their own airbase. The helicopter they lose was shutdown near the russian base.. so what more proof you need? pretty decent s-300s favorite.. destroyed ,pantsirs destroyed ,tors m2 destroyed.. there are videos of that. and likely it was inside armenia airspace.. near nagorno border.. even iskanders were destroyed by azerbaijan and turkey..

    but if you still skeptic..

    look what is happening in Syria.. israel can freely bomb there with total impunity and putin
    allows their major ally Syria ,to be punished constantly..and those s-300s and s-400s have been
    totally worthless in syria ,against israeli attacks.. if armenia had s-400s.. they will have been destroyed too.. the only airdefenses armenia did not lost .were the ones property of russia,
    inside the russian military base. because they did not dare to bomb the russian base directly ,although they did shot down the russian helicopter and did it on purpose , to humiliate even more
    russia defeat.

    Just couple of days ago.. israel bombed syria and fired half a dozen of of missiles and they always
    enter..(at least half of them) so even a few missiles that a modern power launch is enough to bypass Russia air defenses.. and syria have lots of pantirs and also have tors too.. and buks.. so
    russia air defenses have troubles there.

    The lesson here to learn is that Russia air defenses are completely vulnerable against nato and israel in modern wars. and the humiliation of their pantsirs and tors to azerbaijan which is a third world nation and turkey, should be a waking call . the russian media was all in damage control ,blaming
    armenia for the lost.. but armenia don't produce air defenses.. they use russia air defenses.. setup not by aliens.. but by russian technicians . Russian military could not even defend from manpads.. No what is the excuse now ? the helicopter was armenian too? stop making excuses , Russian air defenses were completely owned in nagorno airspace AND in armenia own territory too ,which azerbaijan bombed lots of times and putin did nothing ,honoring their defense pact.

    [b]The only defenses Russia have today against NATO and israel if there was a major war today ,are their offensive capabilities.. and nothing else. because like i said those s-400 and s-300 are completely obsolete for a real war. NATO will not send f-35 and f-22 first.. to attack russia air defenses.. they will send either swarm of drones or very high air altitude glide drones ,that will fly very high and fall by gravity and will not have to turn on their engines to fly towards their target.. so their signature will be even smaller..

    So it means that if NATO/israel or a proxy country ,they provide their best weapons.,their best drones. ie.. if they arm ukraine for example. That the only way Russia will have to stop the continuation of their enemies attacks ,will be to attack back..and so bomb ukraine or nato air bases back. But this is a poor strategy and it shows russia is wasting a fortune in completely obsolete air defenses.. why obsolete? because nato will not send planes vs s-400s.. they will send swarms of cheap drones with automated computer artificial intelligence guidance ,so can't be jammed ,and while they can be shot down. Russia will not have enough missiles to shot down major waves of micro drones that americans can pull, just one b1 bomber alone can be armed with a many hundred of kamikazi autonomous mini drones..and f-16s and f-15s can also be armed with swarm of drones too.. and once those s-400s and s-300 wiped in a few hours , then they can send their manned airforce ,to finish the job.

    Russia will need to focus heavily in energy weapons ,super long range emp artillery ,to shut down the drones , also computer radar guided anti air artillery like germany defense have , super long range rail guns.. to replace those s-400s.. and lasers mounted in infantry vehicles ,to shot down drones or at least blind their sensors.. also they will need far more lethal electronic warfare ,because the one they have failed to protect their pilots who died in armenia by a simple cheap manpad. No

    Imo people need to be fired for this.. shoigu and putin and the airforce general should both accept their incompetence and resign for this disaster they experienced in armenia. That even failed to protect their own pilots and Tors operators ,who were ambushed.. The only good thing about all this was only in nagorno and armenia and not in kalingrad ,that the defeat will also have happened if russia military use the same obsolete tactics of depending on very limited in numbers expensive interceptors to defeat a cheap drones ,that can fly either very high altitude or very low hugging terrain ,under the radar and bypass air defenses security.

    medo
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    Post  medo Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:23 am

    There was no Pantsir in Armenia or Artsakh. Armenia have 1 battery of 4 Tor-M2KM. S-300PS were in Armenia, not in Artsakh. Problem was not in armament, but in betrayal of PM Pashinyan, who ordered Armenian army not to react on attacks and not to go in Artsakh. He even kept in warehouses 10.000 armor vests and thousands of night vision equipment, which were send by diaspora for Artsakh defenders. Russia also send from the begining of war jammers to jam drones, but Pashinyan keep them in warehouses and not deliver single one to Artsakh. Pashinyan send back home majority of voluntiers, who come from diaspora to defend Artsakh, just a part of voluntiers atually come to Artsakh and they come without weapons and equippment.

    Those missiles in front of Erevan were actually shot down by Russian army S-300V, not by Armenian S-300PS, because vectors of those missiles also cover Russian base. Armenian air defense have orders not to fight, that is why Armenian S-300 were simply parked in base and not in combat position.

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    Maximmmm
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    Post  Maximmmm Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:55 am

    franco wrote:One of my ancestors, can't remember who, used to have a saying "You can't argue with stupid!" No

    I'm always reminded of that saying, whenever the forum degenerates into this crap Rolling Eyes

    thumbsup

    Wouldn't be a forum if it didn't degenerate every now and then Laughing

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:38 am

    True and I don't want to over react.

    I don't like banning anyone... I don't think blocking off voices that are different is healthy, but then I have a responsibility to all members who shouldn't have to read that they are criminals with a low IQ because of their ethnicity or gender or religion.

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:04 pm

    Made a 4chan /k/ thread on random 4chan users giving our board and other boards evaluations. https://boards.4channel.org/k/thread/47492250

    My posts there are No.47492250 and No.47492553 might get archived later so this is just for fun.
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    Post  thegopnik Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:33 pm

    learned about discord and created my own channel https://discord.com/invite/AQx6nv69Te Does anyone have a discord server to join here?
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:50 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    2) They never take into account that most German POWs (over 80%) of the USSR went home alive.   By contrast
    3.3 million Soviet POWs died at the hands of the Nazis.   So mass murder of Soviet POWs counts against the USSR
    and in favour of the Nazis.
    Few mention the Western allies treatment of German PoWs after the war either. Several 100,000s were effectively slaves, those in the UK for over 2 years, whilst an estimated million died most in squalid conditions along the Rhine in the winter of 1945/46. Compare that to an estimated 95% of Western allies PoWs making it home from German camps.



    The "one million estimate" you are talking about is a bull-shit number propagated around by the neo-Nazis.

    There is no factual basis for it whatsoever.




    It is a "distraction claim" meant to distract from some very real German war crimes:

    http://asaland.proboards.com/thread/460/land-zamosc-zamojszczyzna-1942-1944




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    Post  Vann7 Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:50 am

    i have seen the videos of pantsirs ,tors and s-300 including nebo radars destroyed, this are
    Russian air defenses , designed by russia and given to armenia ,and some of them manned
    by russian officers . Pasha even himself uploaded a tweeter with tors air defenses on his background
    ,that they got the last week of the war from russia.. and those air defenses require professionals
    well trained for years or at least for half a year at least to operate , and armenia will had no time
    to train their soldiers in such short time , it had to be operated by russian officers.. a video
    that i posted that shows their Tors operators hidding the tor in a house ,that was completely destroyed by a wolf pack of drones .

    So would you accept an offer to operate a TOR in armenia border with nagorno to shot down
    those turkey and israeli drones? no one will do that other than anyone whiling to die for putin ,
    and his disastrous foreign policy ,and his experiments ,that use their soldiers as guinea pigs  .
    he will offer condolence to the families of officers killed , and their military and media will keep
    blaming armenia for their lost.. but it is Russia responsibility to train the armenian army and to
    properly defend their main land ,something they miserably failed to do ,since even their russian helicopter will be shot down..

    The venezuelan refinery was attacked by just one missile or rail gun attack ,according to venezuelan government and you can't accuse maduro of being Pro NATO. lol1
    so lets stop making excuses , the russian airdefenses are good for what they really were designed against planes ,but not very good versus today moder drones warfare capabilities of swarm of drones ,or terrain hugging flying drones or other drones tactics ,like super high altitude kamikazi gliders..that nato advertise on youtube. Simply Russia is in very serious big troubles ,if all they have
    to counter NATO is what we already know they have as "air defenses". Russia will need energy weapons and emp artillery and railguns ,a 180 degrees change of the way the Russian military ,
    trains to protect their airspace.NATO will never send f-35s or bombers to the front line , they will only
    enter when swarm of cheap drones have completely wiped russian air defenses and to avoid a direct
    confrontation they have the option to use ukraine as their bases of operations and will use ukrainian soldiers uniforms and will target crimea or even russian airbases in main land too.. so hard times head for Russia specially with putin in power . Even if russia hold the territory ,the massive losses
    in russian hardware will send bankrupt Russia economy. lets not forget armenia lost a couple of hundred of tanks and about 1-2 billions dollars $ in hardware ,against a small country like azerbaijan.

    If Russia was facing a full nato drones attack operation Russia military will have been smashed in same way ,armenia was by those turkey and israeli drones..





    and all that night vision and bullet proof vest you talk about will have done absolutely no
    difference , where armenia lost was in the air ,because azerbaijan had complete air dominance
    of the nagorno airpsace.. russia dominated nothing in that conflict.. not even had proper control
    of armenia airspace ,hence two pilots died ,and russian incompetence is to blame.

    The drones destroyed armenia-nagorno artilleries ,and their tanks which very effective in pushing
    back the azeris during the first two weeks.. once the drones neutralized armenia air defenses not only in nagorno ,but in armenia itself too ,it was game over for armenia.

    even azerbaijan list 2-3 s-300s destroyed by them , tors and pantsirs and the russian military
    did not question or challenge this claim.  Wink

    Reality is the incompetent leadership of Russia lost that war and not armenia.
    because the armenians did very well in ground combat and where they failed was in controlling
    the airspace ,which was full responsibility of russia military to help nagorno to cover it.
    the only thing Russia did ,that worked ,was to agreed to a surrender most of nagorno karabah territory in change for a temporary cease of fire..  but that eventually is a war ,that putin is going
    to face again ,specially with biden in power . so the war will continue and they will now double
    or triple down with their drones attack. Russia will face a total defeat there and will have to negotiate
    even the lost of some of armenia main territory for peace.  lets not forget the previous armenian government ,was pro putin and also lost territory to azerbaijan..  so don't blame pasha.. is putin
    the one to blame and the russian military ,for their underestimating of their enemies.. now even those s-400s will be in the hands of their enemies.. thanks to putin and if that idiot allowed to finish
    his term ,he will give away to erdogan also their stealth planes.. su-50.  with leaders like putin who needs enemies? his retarded foreign policy of trying to influence enemies with cowardice and weakness is going to cause massive loss of lives of russian soldiers and reverse all the gains
    that the russian scientist achieved in the defense industry. whats the point of russia creating cutting
    edge weapons if they later give them to NATO and their enemies to reverse engineer them ?  No

    Forget about s-400s and s-300s.. they will be totally and absolutely irrelevant weapons for
    true life scenarios ,where Russia will need to defend itself. in NATO playbook ,they will repeat
    this proxy war scenarios ,they did in armenian war and syrian war ,to bring down to its knees
    the russian military. NATO  can very easily repeat the defeat of russia with armenia defenses..
    in a new ukrainian war. just provide 10x times more drones to ukraine ,that the ones azerbaijan
    had from canada and israel and you will see total destruction of russia air defenses ,artillery and
    and tanks ,including s-400s and s-300s ,tors and pantsirs if they provided to donbass.. and this is where the humiliation will be total , for russia to lose on their own borders to a former soviet state
    armed by nato. i predict when russia suffer another major defeat ,near its borders , that the russian military will rebel and kick putin from the presidency for his incompetent and for being so weak.
    On top the russian military will need to go back to the drawing board and replace their s-300s and s-400s for something else.   the only defenses that will still had a place on russian inventory will be
    s-500s for its ability to fight in space while at the same time ,can fight in the combat planes domain too and shot down planes. So people should not celebrate too much every new division of s-400s deployed ,they are useless against low flying drones , against kamikazi drones and against swarm of drones ,but also will also completely vulnerable to rail gun attacks..  so more cheap  anti air smart artillery ,energy weapons and rail guns will be the future of air defenses.. and this will have to be combined with a strong leader ,that is not a scared to fight back their enemies when they attacked.
    Never forget that , NATO will have absolutely no reason to send manned combat planes against
    s-300s or s-400s when cheap drones can do the same job and much better for far cheaper. so good luck for those s-400s and s-300s operators.. they better control those units in a bunker underground
    because they will be smashed by NATO and israel drones ,that just like in the armenian war.. they provided to an enemy of Russia..  ukraine will be the next war , mark my words , they found a major
    weakness of russian military and they will exploit it . All russian allies will also be extremely vulnerable ,so i wonder what will be people excuses in this forum for venezuela s-300s and pantsirs failing to protect their oil refineries from drone attacks? those venezuela s-300s will also be destroyed
    mark my words ,by a lonely cheap kamikazi drone and putin and his military will not move a finger
    to help them , because they simply can't defend properly against advanced drones attacks and they could even restart the syrian war ,this times the attacks on russian bases ,that russia knows are done by NATO ,will be done by more advanced drones and russia will do nothing about it ,when they get their s-400s destroyed..in their own base, i will be here to tell you. .  I Told you so.  the defense of a territory cant be done properly against drones just using rockets with warhead seekers interception ,and specially if the enemy is allowed to continue trying and trying and disrespecting your military all the time. as turkey and israel does.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:13 am

    Sure the Western allies did some bad shit to the Germans at the end of WW2....but the soviets did FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR wose. The Germans deserved it of course.

    Also no one is trying to distract from Nazi war crimes...that is absurd to say, their crimes are well documented
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:35 am

    i have seen the videos of pantsirs ,tors and s-300 including nebo radars destroyed, this are
    Russian air defenses

    I have seen videos of dinosaurs being resurrected on an island, I have seen moon sized death stars, I have seen movies of terminators from the future coming back to change the past...

    This was a conflict between a tiny force of NK vs Azeri forces with Turkish support... it seems to have been very one sided, and for reasons that are not surprising.

    Reasons that really have nothing to do with Russian defence equipment.

    The real experts on this forum about air defence systems like Medo make sense to me, and I will trust them over videos on the internet...

    But I would ask you the obvious question... if the Azeris were kicking the arse of NK and Russian air defence shit was totally useless... why did the Azeris sign a treaty to stop the attack?

    Surely if their drones are all powerful and Turkey has their back, why not take the whole place and then carry on through Georgia and invade Russia and see if they can reach the Crimea?

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