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    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:20 pm

    Tai Hai Chen wrote:

    You can thank the Soviets for the fucked up border between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

    They can thank themselves. They got their independance like all the other states from USSR. This border is far away from Russia and it's a NATO country that is pushing them to fight.

    Both are small countries counting on bigger countries to win but everyone knows those bigger countries are there only for their own interest and would let them all die if they can't reach those interests.

    It's always like that. Only dickheads would lead their country toward a situation like that. If they were smart people and have choosed smart leaders they would have reached an agreement long time ago.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:07 pm

    The Azeris captured a couple of towns in Artsakh. And recaptured a couple of towns in South front. Also many villages. This still leaves a chunk of land for Armenia , to connect to Artsakh. Make it a defensible and viable country. Azeris also can show, they captured territory. Be happy with their gains.

    So there was an  attack on Azer oil pipe. A " near miss".  So the signal was given. Here and no further. I think now both sides in Moscow. I think also, they can now freeze the front line. Azer regain territory and Armenia recognise Artsakh.

    I think if, there is no agreement now. And Azer pushes to South Armenia border. Then expect more severe response. No more near miss. We will know soon enough. My guess is that since Erdo pulling strings, with pan - Turkic project. Then probably not.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:24 pm

    It seems that Pashinian was somehow encouraged to derail the achieved progress in negotiations by perv. admin. with the Azeris, leading to the resumption of the war that may spread to other areas. The UK special services r all over it.
    RTN
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    Post  RTN Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:29 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:I do not see any new video RTN ,except the ones that i have already seen and found totally inconsistent.
    So you are saying this 4th video from top does not depict the destruction of a 36D6 radar?

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1314859119363395584?s=20
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:22 pm

    There seems to be a very big confusion here that if Armenia attacks Azeri soil and Azeri responds Russia will get involved and they will not.

    If it is an attack in response Russia will not do anything.

    in order for Russia to get involved, Azeri would need to be preparing a ground offensive into Armenia or have bombed proper Armenia soil for a long enough period, Azeri ISN'T nearly retarded enough to do that, THEY KNOW FULL WELL long as they leave actual Armenia soil alone, Russia will not help. So they will NOT TOUCH land Russia considers to be Armenian.

    If you think otherwise you are just severely delusional.

    On a side note, it's clear Armenia is losing this war, Azeri is getting closer and closer to breaking them for good, and when that happens NK will fall back under Azeri control.
    Maximmmm
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    Post  Maximmmm Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:36 pm

    I'm glad we're not letting Turkey get in the diplomatic mix of the conflict, the meeting between both country leaders will be held in Moscow, that's a good view for us. Also maybe somebody can talk some sense into pasha behind the scenes.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:40 pm

    nomadski wrote: So there was an  attack on Azer oil pipe. A " near miss".  So the signal was given. Here and no further. I think now both sides in Moscow. I think also, they can now freeze the front line. Azer regain territory and Armenia recognise Artsakh.

    A near miss on an oil pipe?

    It's still a miss, where was follow-up strike?

    And oil pipe is not oil facility, you can fix a pipe in couple of days at worst

    Looks like Armenia is still fully playing by Brussels rules (no wonder Russians don't give a toss about their nonsense)  

    They have Azeris wrapping up NK and rolling up on the border ready to jam a chainsaw up their asses and they are still afraid to break the EU mandated taboo?  

    Like I said, they aren't taking this whole thing seriously enough



    nomadski wrote:I think if, there is no agreement now. And Azer pushes to South Armenia border. Then expect more severe response. No more near miss. We will know soon enough. ...

    There will be no response, one side is in it to win it while other one is making nice with Brussels

    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:58 pm

    https://mobile.twitter.com/301_ad/status/1318277834025144320/photo/1

    First TB-2 down. Wescam unit visible. Someone helping out?
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:10 pm

    Maximmmm wrote:I'm glad we're not letting Turkey get in the diplomatic mix of the conflict, the meeting between both country leaders will be held in Moscow, that's a good view for us. Also maybe somebody can talk some sense into pasha behind the scenes.

    I think it goes beyond just this. I think AZ will start bleeding after this if both sides do not step out of conflict.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:15 pm

    Tai Hai Chen wrote:
    kvs wrote:The Azeris are scum.  Following their nazionalist logic Armenia should be grabbing the enclave to the west of NK.   The Azeris feel
    invincible because they have Turkey at their back.   What retards.   This pattern is the same as Bosnia i Herzegovina where
    Izetbegovic got brave once the US started egging him on to break the 1992 Lisbon accords and try to grab all the territory.

    Why should the Azeri exclave be officially recognized when NK isn't?   What deeper history does this exclave have compared to
    NK?  None.


    You can thank the Soviets for the fucked up border between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

    Both NK and the Azeri exclave had exactly the same legal status in 1990 as autonomous regions. So clearly it is NATzO "recognition" that is
    to blame since the precious, bloody hypocrite west was very selective in what group of people gets recognized.

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:19 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:It seems that Pashinian was somehow encouraged to derail the achieved progress in negotiations by perv. admin. with the Azeris, leading to the resumption of the war that may spread to other areas. The UK special services r all over it.

    This is basically what I posted a while back. He is a regime change stooge whose job it is to bait Russia into a war and derailing the process with the
    Azeris is the result. Just another NATzO whore eager to sell his people down the river. The problem is that so many of those people are idiots who
    supported this clown based on NATzO propaganda claims.

    I recall western journalists pissing on Russia for being in the stone age when Armenians and Georgians had advanced civilizations.
    But objective metrics as evidenced by the events of the last 30 years prove that these semi-mythical achievements are not
    relevant for these countries today.

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:27 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Tai Hai Chen wrote:
    kvs wrote:The Azeris are scum.  Following their nazionalist logic Armenia should be grabbing the enclave to the west of NK.   The Azeris feel
    invincible because they have Turkey at their back.   What retards.   This pattern is the same as Bosnia i Herzegovina where
    Izetbegovic got brave once the US started egging him on to break the 1992 Lisbon accords and try to grab all the territory.

    Why should the Azeri exclave be officially recognized when NK isn't?   What deeper history does this exclave have compared to
    NK?  None.


    You can thank the Soviets for the fucked up border between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

    Both NK and the Azeri exclave had exactly the same legal status in 1990 as autonomous regions.   So clearly it is NATzO "recognition" that is
    to blame since the precious, bloody hypocrite west was very selective in what group of people gets recognized.


    NATO had nothing to do with how the borders between Armenia and Azeri ended up, you need to stop making shit up. The west recognized the borders of Armenia and Azeri in the same way Russia did. You will remember not even Russia considers NK to be part of Armenia in any context.

    Nakhchivan has been part of Azeri since 1828, That is also Azeri soil and is recognized by everyone has such, NK isn't recognized at all has belonging to Armenia.

    Once more you have opened your mouth with incorrect moronic facts.

    NK never EVER had any autonomous region legality tied to it, you just lied about that.

    Look up the Karabakh movement in 1988 before you say more stupid shit.
    Tai Hai Chen
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:49 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:There seems to be a very big confusion here that if Armenia attacks Azeri soil and Azeri responds Russia will get involved and they will not.

    If it is an attack in response Russia will not do anything.

    in order for Russia to get involved, Azeri would need to be preparing a ground offensive into Armenia or have bombed proper Armenia soil for a long enough period, Azeri ISN'T nearly retarded enough to do that, THEY KNOW FULL WELL long as they leave actual Armenia soil alone, Russia will not help. So they will NOT TOUCH land Russia considers to be Armenian.

    If you think otherwise you are just severely delusional.

    On a side note, it's clear Armenia is losing this war, Azeri is getting closer and closer to breaking them for good, and when that happens NK will fall back under Azeri control.

    Azerbaijan will have to invade Armenia proper to retake Azeri enclaves in Armenia.
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:50 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/301_ad/status/1318277834025144320/photo/1

    First TB-2 down. Wescam unit visible. Someone helping out?

    Yeah and Canada stopped selling it to Turkey .
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:45 am

    ahmedfire wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/301_ad/status/1318277834025144320/photo/1

    First TB-2 down. Wescam unit visible. Someone helping out?

    Yeah and Canada stopped selling it to Turkey .

    There are unknown stocks of the engine in Turkey, probably some available on the black market.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:06 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/301_ad/status/1318277834025144320/photo/1

    First TB-2 down. Wescam unit visible. Someone helping out?

    Yeah and Canada stopped selling it to Turkey .

    There are unknown stocks of the engine in Turkey, probably some available on the black market.

    Black markets in OEM military parts are state sponsored.

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:39 am

    Azerbaijan will have to invade Armenia proper to retake Azeri enclaves in Armenia.
    it could probably easier to take most of Armenia than NK. Armenians will fight to the death to keep the land link to it. If they lose it, Russia may claim it &/ open another 1 to Armenia via Georgia &/ bomb/invade Azerbaijan.
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:53 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/301_ad/status/1318277834025144320/photo/1

    First TB-2 down. Wescam unit visible. Someone helping out?

    Yeah and Canada stopped selling it to Turkey .

    There are unknown stocks of the engine in Turkey, probably some available on the black market.

    Engine and Optronics are actually close but not on par from Aselsan. It could influence employment in long term.
    Tai Hai Chen
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:06 am

    ahmedfire wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/301_ad/status/1318277834025144320/photo/1

    First TB-2 down. Wescam unit visible. Someone helping out?

    Yeah and Canada stopped selling it to Turkey .

    It's a start. But TB2 is built for free in Turkey considering Erdogan is dictator and has a huge slave labor force. Erdogan is building tens of thousands of TB2 to take over Russia and make Russian women his harem. What Armenia needs to do is use EW to jam TB2 and make them crash in the hundreds in Karabakh.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Armenian_Armed_Forces#Electronic_warfare
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:32 am

    But TB2 is built for free in Turkey considering Erdogan is dictator and has a huge slave labor force. Erdogan is building tens of thousands of TB2 to take over Russia and make Russian women his harem.
    and who r those slaves? how do u know they r building Ks of UAVs that he intends to conquer Russia? what r u smoking?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:07 am

    Wasn't that near miss on the oil pipeline shown to be an Azeri provocation?

    I would think Armenia would prefer to keep the British onside by not attacking their economic interests, but of course that is something they could talk to them about as leverage later on if needed.

    It is a small country.... the last thing it wants to do is step on big toes.

    Of course British and other western influence can be used to get the outcome they want... ie tell the Azeris to back off or we flatten all your assets and ruin your plans.

    Perhaps Russia wants to wait till the time is right and then level all those oil and gas related assets... the cruise missiles that hit them can have Novachok stamped all over them so the debris will suggest it is highly likely Putin ordered the attack and used Novachok.... hahahahahaha and of course they will sent the remains to Germany and they will find residual evidence novachok was used... they can find it anywhere...

    Amusing there are lots of opinions about Putin being weak or soft and not wanting to upset anyone, and there are others the opposite...

    Tsavo... if Russia could forge a land connection to Armenia through Georgia they would have done it years ago... that is not an option.

    Russian help can come in a variety of ways and forms... Putin has a lot of options, but as usual he is being cautious and careful that he does not over commit and leave himself and Russia in a position where they have to do something stupid or rash... like the west so often does...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:51 am

    if Russia could forge a land connection to Armenia through Georgia they would have done it years ago... that is not an option.
    It wasn't necessary before, but it may become an option later, to cut off Azerbaijan from E. Georgia & return Armenian settled areas there to Armenia. Armenians don't like Georgians & vice versa. 
    Latest news: 
    https://lenta.ru/news/2020/10/20/usloviye/



    https://ria.ru/20201019/karabakh-1580094071.html



    https://lenta.ru/news/2020/10/20/france/
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:22 am

    You can see on this sattelite map, that  all Azeri homes captured by Armenia during war, have no Roofs. Meaning that these houses were burnt. Residents driven out. Compare Goris to Ishiqli.

    And this means that the two populations, can not live side by side. Or be close in any way. So the Azeri refugees must  be returned to Azeri only areas. The claim that they can live side by side is not true.

    Azeris must leave Armenians alone. Not attack them. Leave them alone in NK.  They should only go to area outside of NK. For this reason of severe war, Artsakh must be part of Armenia. For security of people and development. Some kind of autonomy or independence, allowing any mixing of populations affairs, will not work.

    I think Armenia should withdraw forces from occupied territory. Concentrate forces in Artsakh to defend. They can maintain a land link to Artsakh. Azeris then loose reason for war. For fighting.

    I do not see the benefit of holding a large territory, or buffer zone. If it disperses your forces. In area that is flat. Armour can advance. They have numerical superiority. And they have reason to fight. It is their land.

    https://satellites.pro/Armenia_map#39.517080,46.347021,18

    NB : BOTH RUSSIA AND IRAN SHOULD ADVANCE 2 KM ALONG BORDER. IRAN ALONG ARMENIA BORDER. RUSSIA ALONG GEORGIA BORDER. THE CLOSER AZER FORCES COME TO ARMENIA , THE MORE RUSSIA AND IRAN TO ADVANCE. IF AZER CROSS BORDER INTO ARMENIA, THEN THEY SHOULD GO FURTHER AND CLOSE ARMENIA BORDER AGAINST AZER ADVANCE. IN NK, THEY SHOULD DO THE SAME. SEPARATE FORCES.
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    Post  Maximmmm Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:45 pm

    Ok time for actual updates:
    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/6260426.html

    Looks like that's it on the south. Zengilan (kovsakan, or whatever) has been confirmed for the Azeri side. NK is now cut-off from Iran.
    I don't know what pasha thinks he's going to do, or if the French recognizing NK is gonna do anything (resolution was floated in parliament, although I doubt it will go through), but he's about to be the worst leader in Armenian history.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:47 pm

    https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1318526021591773184?s=20

    NSFW.

    Maximmmm wrote:Ok time for actual updates:
    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/6260426.html

    Looks like that's it on the south. Zengilan (kovsakan, or whatever) has been confirmed for the Azeri side. NK is now cut-off from Iran.
    I don't know what pasha thinks he's going to do, or if the French recognizing NK is gonna do anything (resolution was floated in parliament, although I doubt it will go through), but he's about to be the worst leader in Armenian history.

    Z'ngilan was left open, this comes from the hole towards Lachin. AZ will try and cut Lachin so they can envelop NK. This means they will be forced to strike massively in Armenia. Therefore, triggering CSTO answer. Azerbaijan is openly defying Russia by doing this. Let's see how long can Russia take this and pretend it is all good.

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