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    Cuban Missile Crisis

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:16 am

    Remember Cuban Crisis? Russians and Americans pulled back their missiles but Russians agreed to keep American missiles being pulled back a secret because Americans demanded it

    They lost that one and afterwards Americans knew they Russians are scared of them

    First of all I think you will find that was the Soviets and not the Russians.

    Second the whole situation was created by US nuclear tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey was enormously destabilising... the action by the Soviets was reciprocal and balanced and it was the Americans who flipped out and acted all irrational.

    The result was both parties removed their missiles, which is clearly a success for the Soviet Union... US demands to keep their withdrawal secret just proves it was a huge step down from the Americans... having jupiter missiles in Turkey ready to launch at the Soviet Union was an enormous advantage that they ended up having to give up completely... the Americans wanted it kept secret because it was basically totally humiliating for them... they blinked.... even at a time when they knew the missile gap and the bomber gap did exist but was in their favour by a wide margin... and they still caved like little girls.

    We are lucky they didn't follow the generals advice and try a landing because in addition to IRBMs... I seem to remember they were SS-5 Serbs or something, but they had hundreds of tactical nuclear armed FROG rockets that would have obliterated any naval force that tried to land there... relatively small dirty nukes too...
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:21 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Remember Cuban Crisis? Russians and Americans pulled back their missiles but Russians agreed to keep American missiles being pulled back a secret because Americans demanded it

    The US had to keep it secret as the missiles in Turkey were secret... IIRC even the US congress didn't know they had been deployed. It would have damaged their reputation to admit their duplicity, and the Soviets just wanted the missiles gone (and not replaced by more modern ones), they didn't give a fig about how the US regime managed info within its own ranks.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Remember Cuban Crisis? Russians and Americans pulled back their missiles but Russians agreed to keep American missiles being pulled back a secret because Americans demanded it

    They lost that one and afterwards Americans knew they Russians are scared of them

    First of all I think you will find that was the Soviets and not the Russians.

    Second the whole situation was created by US nuclear tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey was enormously destabilising... the action by the Soviets was reciprocal and balanced and it was the Americans who flipped out and acted all irrational.

    The result was both parties removed their missiles, which is clearly a success for the Soviet Union... US demands to keep their withdrawal secret just proves it was a huge step down from the Americans... having jupiter missiles in Turkey ready to launch at the Soviet Union was an enormous advantage that they ended up having to give up completely... the Americans wanted it kept secret because it was basically totally humiliating for them... they blinked.... even at a time when they knew the missile gap and the bomber gap did exist but was in their favour by a wide margin... and they still caved like little girls.

    We are lucky they didn't follow the generals advice and try a landing because in addition to IRBMs... I seem to remember they were SS-5 Serbs or something, but they had hundreds of tactical nuclear armed FROG rockets that would have obliterated any naval force that tried to land there... relatively small dirty nukes too...

    The local EU-Serb is just spewing the NATO propaganda he is indoctrinated with. According to basically all coverage of the Cuban
    missile crisis the "Russians blinked first". Even the few documentaries that even mention the US missiles in Turkey actually call them
    old and obsolete! Get f*cked, seriously? We are talking about 1962 and US rockets (e.g. Vanguard) were still exploding on the
    launch pad in 1958. Recall that the R7 ICBM was the Soyuz that launched Gagarin into orbit. How the f*ck can a US MRBM not more
    than 6 years of age be obsolete. We still have 1970s missiles in service today in the US and Russia. Obviously such drivel is designed
    to divert the attention of feeble minds who then focus on the "Russian" withdrawal of non-deployed missiles as some sort of epic fail.
    In the real world it was the yanquis who epically failed with their secret deployment of IRBMs along the border of the USSR.

    BTW, I know that the Jupiter missiles were designed in 1954. The missiles in Turkey would still not have been obsolete in 1962 even if
    they had been built in 1954. But they were actually built several years later. The NATO drone cannot quibble his way out of this one.

    Also, check out:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_(disambiguation)

    Notice the lack of any reference to

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGM-19_Jupiter

    And NATO wannabe saps come here to wave their fingers in our faces.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:42 pm

    kvs wrote:......The local EU-Serb is just spewing the NATO propaganda he is indoctrinated with.  ...

    How is weather in Canada?

    And how is your application for Russian visa going?

    Moving soon?  Wink



    kvs wrote:......According to basically all coverage of the Cuban missile crisis the "Russians blinked first". ....... 

    Russians publicly withdrew their missiles from Cuba

    Americans withdrew theirs from Turkey it in secret as part of the deal

    It was a defeat and humiliation which led to palace coup in Kremlin soon afterwards

    So yeah, Russians not only blinked first but bent over as well

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:01 pm

    Americans withdrew theirs from Turkey it in secret as part of the deal

    Not so secret.

    Anyway we probably know maybe 1/10 of that Cuba missile crisis story.

    If what you say, "US push on the red button anytime they want", is true they would have invaded Cuba the very next second USSR moved away. The fact that they didn't until today even when USSR was dead, russia destroyed, China a shithole and Bush doll at power with all the warmongers behind controling him means something. Who knows if all those weapons were removed ...
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:10 am

    It was a defeat and humiliation which led to palace coup in Kremlin soon afterwards

    So yeah, Russians not only blinked first but bent over as well

    Yeah, see that is the funny thing... the Soviets didn't care about public image, their public image in the west was always bad after WWII when they were helping the west defeating Hitler and were heroes, but after that when they became the biggest problem to western domination of the world they became the bad guys and nothing would or has changed that... for a few years when Yeltsin was in charge they weren't the good guys they were just the weak bad guys so they dropped so far down the list they got forgotten... but they never got on the allies or good guys list.... are you listening PD? Because Serbia is in the same boat and are in the enemy list and not the friend list... you just dropped down the list out of notice... you are going to have to perform a few actions before even considering changing to the useful ally list...

    The Soviets wanted the missiles gone... that was all they cared about... those missiles in Cuba weren't long range enough to hit ICBM fields or the Pentagon or anything very important, the only thing they had was proximity to Americas belly that was totally exposed because all the radars they had were up north facing north watching for missiles coming from the Soviet Union... they had nothing looking south and it would be far too expensive to fix that... plus the obvious same problem the Soviets had that the flight time for such short range missiles meant very little time to react... the difference is that Turkey is pretty close to Moscow, while Cuba is too far away from the White House or the Pentagon...

    The Soviets got what they wanted which was all the victory they needed...
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    It was a defeat and humiliation which led to palace coup in Kremlin soon afterwards

    So yeah, Russians not only blinked first but bent over as well

    Yeah, see that is the funny thing... the Soviets didn't care about public image, their public image in the west was always bad after WWII when they were helping the west defeating Hitler and were heroes, but after that when they became the biggest problem to western domination of the world they became the bad guys and nothing would or has changed that... for a few years when Yeltsin was in charge they weren't the good guys they were just the weak bad guys so they dropped so far down the list they got forgotten... but they never got on the allies or good guys list.... are you listening PD? Because Serbia is in the same boat and are in the enemy list and not the friend list... you just dropped down the list out of notice... you are going to have to perform a few actions before even considering changing to the useful ally list...

    The Soviets wanted the missiles gone... that was all they cared about... those missiles in Cuba weren't long range enough to hit ICBM fields or the Pentagon or anything very important, the only thing they had was proximity to Americas belly that was totally exposed because all the radars they had were up north facing north watching for missiles coming from the Soviet Union... they had nothing looking south and it would be far too expensive to fix that... plus the obvious same problem the Soviets had that the flight time for such short range missiles meant very little time to react... the difference is that Turkey is pretty close to Moscow, while Cuba is too far away from the White House or the Pentagon...

    The Soviets got what they wanted which was all the victory they needed...

    Agreed, and the fact that Krushchev enemies used the "climb-down" as their public excuse in Brezhnevs palace coup shouldn't be taken at face value. Its a fake justification to conceal a simple grab for power, nothing more.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:12 am

    I should remind people that Kennedy was assassinated in 1963. Funny timing that. Looks like a real coup to me and not the
    par for the course bureaucratic reshuffling in the USSR.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:55 am

    At university I had a lecturer that was in the CIA and he mentioned a few potential reasons for Kennedys death... but the most likely was a combination of the mob and the CIA... the mob wanted their casinos and hotels in cuba back because it made a lot of money for them, and the CIA wanted payback for the Bay of Pigs fiasco... it is my understanding that they lose a few agents in that incident.

    Also important was that Kennedy used mob muscle and support to get in to power and then went hard on organised crime once in office which they also saw as a betrayal...

    JFK was the luckiest president they ever had... he died before they found out what a censored he really was so JFK became jesus f'ing christ...
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:57 am

    GarryB wrote:At university I had a lecturer that was in the CIA and he mentioned a few potential reasons for Kennedys death... but the most likely was a combination of the mob and the CIA... the mob wanted their casinos and hotels in cuba back because it made a lot of money for them, and the CIA wanted payback for the Bay of Pigs fiasco... it is my understanding that they lose a few agents in that incident.

    Also important was that Kennedy used mob muscle and support to get in to power and then went hard on organised crime once in office which they also saw as a betrayal...

    JFK was the luckiest president they ever had... he died before they found out what a censored  he really was so JFK became jesus f'ing christ...

    You are mentioning the routine spin that I have seen in every western documentary on the subject. Cops die routinely in the line of service. There are no
    assassinations "in revenge". The Bay of Pigs was not a fiasco because of JFK. The CIA failed all by itself. So killing JKF would hardly be so urgent and immediate.
    As for the mob, what exactly did Kennedy do that would take them way outside their safety zone of operations? The FBI was hardly rooting out the mob in the
    USA as was evident by its activity long after JFK's death.

    The response of JFK to the "Soviet threat" is the real story and actually overlaps the Bay of Pigs. The US elites wanted a full blown invasion of Cuba because
    they drink their own piss-fermented koolaid and basically had no clue about the power of the USSR. JFK was making peace overtures to the USSR instead
    of acting like the USA was a hyperpower, that made him into a Trump in the eyes of modern day Democraps. Hillary wanted to fight Russia in Syria. Trump
    knows better and has not even tried. So the Bay of Pigs was all about internal US elite ambitions and their view that JKF was soft on the USSR. These
    turds did not get anything after they murdered JFK but they a psychopaths and sociopaths so it is not like they would show remorse or something.

    By contrast, the "palace coup" in the USSR removed the maggot known as Khruschev. Which is probably why the testicles of the US shrank and there
    was no invasion of Cuba and redeployment of the secret IRBMs back to Turkey after JFKs assassination. The US elites need a traitor in the "enemy" (aka victim)
    camp to lubricate their victories.

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    Post  calripson on Wed May 27, 2020 12:50 am

    Kennedy was the first and only Irish Catholic president - the son of an Irish mobster who made his money bootlegging and in insider trading. He was hated by LBJ and the Dulles brothers and was a threat to both. He actually lost the 1960 election to Richard Nixon absent of mob vote fraud in Chicago. His brother Robert was such an ingrate that he immediately began persecuting the very mobsters who had elected him (with Frank Sinatra as the conduit by the way).

    In addition, Kennedy was a sex addict and was having affairs both with Sam Giancanna's mistress and Cord Meyer's (CIA official) wife. He also was tripping on acid and using marijuana which was known to both the FBI and CIA.

    JFK's mind expansion started to get to him and be began mentioning some silly ideas like ending the Cold War, cutting the CIA into pieces, and moving control of US monetary policy from the Fed to the Treasury.

    Not to difficult to imagine the Deep State of the time getting together and deciding that Kennedy was a threat to national security and had to go. There actually is a clip of H.W. Bush (CIA) involuntarily smirking while mentioning that JFK has been killed "by a lone gunman" at Ford's funeral.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed May 27, 2020 2:23 am

    Both Krushchev removal and Kennedy assasination caused by MIC because both wanted to reduce arms expenditure. In case of USSR just watch the massive military buil up during Brezhnev's era

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