3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

With more documents coming out you are starting to see the scope of hypersonic studies from all sorts of institutions. We did the same and after the cold war even worked with a couple programs. Yeah water augmented turbojet and ramjet propulsion has been studied for awhile I think. Same with the different forms of pulsed and stirred detonation engines, exotic fuel additives, etc...

Where is this research paper from? What institutions are connected to it?

It is possible that Cirkon has a developed ramjet engine?

No.

Mach 4-5 is the limit of ramjets... do you think water injected inlets would allow a turboprop aircraft to go supersonic to mach 3?

Water is used to boost the engine performance of the B-52s on takeoff... at rather higher speeds alcohol is used... which is why the MiG-25 had the nickname restaurant.

More to the point, what will best improve the overall performance of the weapon - adding extra fuel or a similar mass of water? My money is on the former.

No need for all the flight. That could be used when being shot at by AD or for the final stage of the flight.

Big_Gazza wrote:More to the point, what will best improve the overall performance of the weapon - adding extra fuel or a similar mass of water? My money is on the former.

Not 100% sure, it depends on how hot the engines are running. If you inject water you get that wonderful combo of cooling the engine plus achieving the liquid/gas state change of the water, so you can capture a lot of energy that would be somewhat wasted in the exhaust temp to generate thrust.. BUT you also have to haul that water, which is heavy.

Kholod had axially symmetric intakes since the 90s...

Please people... tell me you are not that simple....

So now we are 100% sure that the 3M22 does not resemble the waverider concept in any way. It simply looks like a modification of the P-800.

We know nothing of the sort...

That flat nose is the NOSECONE that covers the actual nose of the missile and the air intake.

If you look at any Onyx launch you will see the missile goes up in the air and then side thruster rockets roll the missile in the direction the target is and then small rockets pull the nose cover off and clear and the main solid rocket motor lights up and the missile accelerates away towards the target.

Once that solid rocket motor has burned out the missile will be moving at speed where the air flowing into the air intakes starts operating as a ramjet or scramjet engine.

Claiming the nose cone tells you the propulsion or air intake design of the missile is like saying the nose radome of a fighter tells you what sort of radar is fitted underneath..

The nose cover is blunt to better fill the launch tube... it would have to be jettisoned  on a supersonic Onyx let alone a hypersonic Zircon.

Even a purely rocket powered supersonic missile would not have a blunt nose like that.

It can be blunt because it is blown off less than 10 seconds after launch and does not need to be aerodynamic at all.

On a more positive note... nice videos.

The big flat nose of the Onyx and the Zicon are the same because it protects the intake and nose of the missile while it is in the tube.

Look at the flat nose shape of the Onyx and compare it with the nose of the actual ONYX missile shown at airshows with a pointed nose and a round intake much like the nose of a MiG-21 fighter aircraft.

They already tested a scramjet engine with a round nose intake on the SA-5 SAM in the 1990s and decided that a round air intake was too complex to calculate airflow so they decided to go for a square intake for further scramjet designs... which they have kept secret because they don't want to show the Americans how to make a scramjet air intake that works... the US hasn't developed a working one yet.

The Cirkon probably has a similar air intake concept.

Yes, of course... a working Russian hypersonic missile must look exactly like a western missile that does not work... because.

Does the T-90 look like a Abrams tank?

They tested round air intakes but the maths was too complex at supersonic speeds, so they decided that rectangular intakes would be a good solution because it would be easier to control.

That does not look easier to control.

You have missed one important difference.
Pay attention t the starting sequence.
Oniks is oriented toward the target shortly after leaving the tube. The cone is being blown off, and rockets give momentum to direct the missile.
Zirkon seems to continue ascending after the cone is blown off, which suggests that it is going really high, pretty fast.

Look at what you missed... after being launched the nose cone is blown off... why do you think a nose cone for Zircon to fill the tube is going to be different from a nose cone for Onyx to fill the tube? Why do you think the air intake arrangement for a ramjet powered missile able to fly mach 3 normally and perhaps mach 5 with more energetic fuel maybe, is going to have the same design and arrangement as a missile with a scramjet motor that flys 2-3 times faster?

Does a MiG-15s air intake look very much like a MiG-25s air intake?

They call those high speed wedge shape missiles and aircraft designs waveriders because at speeds above mach 5 the entire vehicles body creates lift... making it wedge shaped improves performance... much like the lifting body of the Su-35 improves its flight performance over something like an F-16 or MiG-31 that does not have body lift features.

Sorry for sounding so aggressive, but you sound like the New York Times... they can't do it... it is a paper plane, then they show it in use and they say it is just a modified missile they already have in service (Onyx)... because obviously you take an existing type and make it a next generation system with a few minor changes... the F-22 is just an F-15 with RAM I guess... the Su-57 is just an Su-35 with RAM too I guess.

America can't even make Onyx so they have to shit all over Zircon.

Tsirkon's hoodie

I think the hoodie is just to protect the missile's sensitive parts in the nose as it breaches the missile container.

So maybe the US used this type of solution in its mock-up. In addition, this solution is better if we consider that the Tsirkon is to enter the same launcher as the P 800.

All the Club missiles are launched from the UKSK launch tubes so are you saying the Calibre cruise missile, the Calibre supersonic anti ship missile, the Ovtet ballistic rocket for sinking submarines and the Yakont/Onyx, and of course the Zircon all have the same nose shape and intake arrangement?

The land attack Calibre has a round nose because a pointed nose is not required for subsonic flight speeds.

What sort of nose shape would be required for hypersonic flight speeds... and let me give you a hint... if Onyx could be accelerated to mach 10 just by replacing the ramjets with scramjets and new more energetic fuel types the why the hell aren't the Americans flying scramjet powered hypersonic missiles now... or can they not even make Onyx type missiles either?

Tsirkon's hoodie

No wonder we worship the Russian scientists... fucking idiots here think the flat nosed fairing on a Zircon missile allows it to fly at mach 10... no wonder the Americans can't achieve the same thing... they are wasting their time with pointy noses and wedge shapes when a flat nose is the real secret and the Russians are displaying their super secret nose shape to everyone... only stupid people like me think they would not reveal the actual missile nose shape because they don't want their western enemies to copy them but now the cat is out of the bag... with this new technology even Yasen and Kilo class subs could be hypersonic... just fit them with scramjets and they will be hitting mach 10 in no time...