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    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:48 am

    hese images from "armchair enthusiasts" suggest the Zircon has an annular intake at the nose, and is powered by solid fuel. Plausible? wrote:

    Big Gaza and where did these drawings come from, whose analyzes are these?
    Solid fuel and air oxygen sounds like a solid fuel Ramjet/Scramjet. I've heard of work being done on a solid fuel ramjet scratch

    The launch container for UKSK is basically the same for all the missiles that are launched from it and don't really reflect anything. You might say this is Zircon, but it could just as easily be a new supersonic version of Calibre or a long range Otvet anti sub weapon... wrote:


    Yes it's about the launcher. Here's the patent. "ethod of supply of working gas to cavities of flying vehicle units and systems and system for realization of this method "
    https://patents.google.com/patent/RU2148180C1/en?oq=RU+2148180

    hat would not be efficient... it would make more sense to have a smaller lighter solid rocket motor just to get the missile moving and use the scramjet and extra fuel for much better performance. wrote:

    But Iskander has a much larger warhead to carry!

    That would require a real breakthrough in design and modelling. The scramjets they tested in the 1990s had round intakes mounted on the nose of SA-5 SAMs, but the round inlets didn't offer enough control of the airflow so they went to square intakes. wrote:

    Look at available photos of the missile in flight. There are no square inlets, etc. Of course, the picture is so blurry that it's hard to see anything. Until they officially show the missile, only speculation will remain and they will not reveal it soon.




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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Dec 17, 2022 1:26 am

    Arrow wrote:Big Gaza and where did these drawings come from, whose analyzes are these?

    Link below to the thread on a russian language forum. Not having any Russian language skills I find it difficult to wade thru forums like this using online translators, so usually i just skim for images...  which I then post here if sufficiently interesting  Laughing

    link

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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 17, 2022 3:24 am

    Look at available photos of the missile in flight. There are no square inlets, etc. Of course, the picture is so blurry that it's hard to see anything. Until they officially show the missile, only speculation will remain and they will not reveal it soon.

    The only released photos were taken by them and released by them... why would they give away the shape of a working missile when the enemy is desperately trying to work out a useful shape for themselves?

    But Iskander has a much larger warhead to carry!

    Twice as heavy with half the range, so it should be four times heavier... and it likely isn't.
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    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:40 am

    Link below to the thread on a russian language forum. Not having any Russian language skills I find it difficult to wade thru forums like this using online translators, so usually i just skim for images... which I then post here if sufficiently interesting Laughing wrote:

    Thanks to Big Gaza, generally interesting analyzes when it comes to solving the puzzle related to Cirkon. Very Happy

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    Post  mnztr Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:05 am

    i wonder if tsirkon can be used as a ultra long range SAM against AWACS and tanker planes. it must have some sorta optical guidance system so if it does a plunging attack it could be quite effective against such targets.
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    Post  mnztr Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:15 am

    If its solid fuel powered does this mean it only has a terminal ballistic trajectory and not a terminal sea skimming one? wrote:

    i doubt you would have a sea sklmming hypersonic missile. The temps and friction will be way to high at sea level at over M5. Plunging traectory like the KH-32 is most likely. Very hard to shoot down, and it can still do some small changes in trajectory and release decoys. It will be rally very hard to shoot down. Even if you hit it there is that shower of hypersonic debris coming at you.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:31 pm

    Rocket flight speed; Mach 9
    Maximum range; 1000 km
    Warhead mass; 300 to 400 kg
    Rocket flight height; 30 to 40 km.

    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 37 Maxres15

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    Post  Arrow Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:47 pm

    he only released photos were taken by them and released by them... why would they give away the shape of a working missile when the enemy is desperately trying to work out a useful shape for themselves? wrote:

    From the available photos, unfortunately of poor quality, it appears that the projectile is round in shape like standard missiles. So it probably has circular air intakes. All speculation that the Zirkon is shaped like a waverider can be cut short!

    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 37 07-11295593-flolzz9wqaa6pwc
    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 37 07-11295597-flolzz7waamnfa4
    3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 37 Zircon-2

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    Post  TMA1 Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:26 pm

    Cannot say for sure it has an ogive or conical shape. The kinematics and size of this missile make it such that it has to have some sort of exotic form of propulsion. I cannot wait to learn more.
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    Post  limb Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:09 pm

    The rossiya 24 channel's model is clearly single stage, similar to the Kh-31 or P-800. Why wouldnt the russians choose a 2 stage design, 1 stage being a large booster, and the other being a scramjet? A 2 stage missile would have longer range.

    The most interesting part would ofc be the guidance and accuracy of the missile. That would also be the most difficult part. its easy to make a hypersonic missile with inertial guidance, but having one with an active radar is a different story. I hope the zirkon isnt only passive homing.

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    Post  Isos Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:10 pm

    One stage missiles can have the booster inside the combustion chamber. Once booster gone it becomes the engine for the scramjet.

    2 stage missiles are good for bigger ballistic missiles in order to get ride of extra useless weight.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:15 am

    When you look at the Su-34s nose from directly above or directly below it looks round, but from the side or the front you can clearly see it is not.

    Post 907 from Pod shows it is not round but a rather more complex shape that might be flat underneath with a rectangle air intake...

    We see the rocket under rocket power... no afterburner looks like that, so the scramjet likely isn't even operating in those images so that nose shape could just be an aerodynamic fairing that stops birds and crap from entering the engine at low altitude during launch... when the rocket motor is close to burning out the aerodynamic fairing would be jettisoned and the scramjet engine started... which could be any shape.

    Looking at the more side on image in post 907 I would guess a flattened oval shape with the underneath having a rectangular intake because it is easier to control the airflow... which is critical to burn fuel at supersonic speeds.

    The rossiya 24 channel's model is clearly single stage, similar to the Kh-31 or P-800. Why wouldnt the russians choose a 2 stage design, 1 stage being a large booster, and the other being a scramjet? A 2 stage missile would have longer range.

    The inside of a scramjet engine is empty space where air is compressed and fuel added and ignited... the Onyx has a small solid booster to get it up out of the tube and on its way, but only because a ramjet or scramjet probably wont be very efficient at very low to zero speed.

    The weight a large heavy solid rocket booster would take away from the fuel you could load into your scramjet which would actually greatly reduce performance rather than improve it.

    The purpose of the solid rocket booster is to get it clear of the ship and accelerating upwards... once it has achieved that it makes sense for it to be as small as you could possibly make it so the scramjet could take over and accelerate it to much much higher speeds that it can fly at.

    A solid fuel rocket only would be like a Kh-15 or Iskander from a surface launch, so mach 4 to about mach 7 at best with the huge fat powerful rocket motor on the Iskander which simply wont fit in such a slim launch tube.

    Trust them... they know what they are doing.

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:12 pm

    It has been described a a 'maneuvering' missile, I have some simple questions.

    As I understand it the rocket motor and scramjet get it up to its 'traveling' height, does it then fly on a ballistic trajectory or flat?

    Is the 'traveling' height always 30km+?

    Can it change direction during that phase or is it going too fast?

    When it gets to the target area has it already started to slow down so that it can change trajectory to vertical?

    Once vertical is it going slow enough to maneuver?

    Do we know if it is radar guided, if so at which phase of its journey?

    Thanks in advance,

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    Post  limb Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:49 pm

    If the zircon follows a ballistic trajectory, what makes it different from the iskander, kinzhal, kh-32, etc other than higher speed?
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    Post  Isos Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:06 pm

    It's not a ballistic missile if you think so. A BM, to reach its mach 10 speed, would need to go very high, much higher than 30km.

    Iskander goes up to 50km and just reach mach 5 or mach 6 according to wikipedia.

    Ballistic missiles get their speed by free falling in the space where there is no air to slow them down. ICBM fall at mach 20 or more because the longer you want to reach the higher you need your missile to go thus the more time it will fall.

    At 30km in altitude Zirkon to reach mach 10 has to have a propulsion. Same for kh-32 that is also powered through its entire flight path.

    So yes it's not a ballistic missile and its cruise altitude needs to be at high altitudes where air density is very small. No way it can reach mach 10 at lower altitudes where civilian planes fly. Real altitude is classified just like its real speed. But the concept is what I discribed.


    Moreover, it doesn't need to manouevre that much. The target, be it a big ship, will travel at max 50km/h. Once it activates its seaker the last 30-50km the ship will be just a fix target. A very small correction will be needed. It's like a human trying to dodge a bullet. Impossible.

    The manouevrability is important during its cruising phase where long range AD missiles can try to intercept it. Small trajectory correction at that speed means intercepting point can move few km for the AD system and the interceptor won't have energy to go to the new coordinates.

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    Post  thegopnik Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:21 pm

    https://defencehub.live/threads/russia-naval-capabilities-to-deal-with-future-threats-part-1.16207/

    Zircon does not follow a ballistic trajectory, the 1st stage engines get it to 40kms and the scamjet being the 2nd stage engine kicks in to travel the rest of the way in 40kms than downwards to targets. ballistic trajectories fly up to space and down to targets. The Zircon simply cruises at its altitude than the purpose of rising and descending like a ballistic missile.

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    Post  Hole Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:36 pm

    As far as I know...

    When it gets to the target area has it already started to slow down so that it can change trajectory to vertical?
    Like a Kh-32 or Onyx the Zirkon is powered from start to impact.


    Once vertical is it going slow enough to maneuver?
    The point of hypersonic weapons is that they are maneuverable, like a Kh-32 can maneuver at M4 the Zirkon can maneuver at M8 (or so)

    Do we know if it is radar guided, if so at which phase of its journey?
    Radar guided, like Kh-32 or Onyx. Range of the radar is reportedly min. 50km

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    Post  TMA1 Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:17 pm

    There are rumors it sheds its air breathing elements during terminal phase. But this is speculation based on interpretations of patent info that may have no relation to zircon.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:41 am

    As I understand it the rocket motor and scramjet get it up to its 'traveling' height, does it then fly on a ballistic trajectory or flat?

    Think of it as being an aircraft whose engines are designed to operate only at speeds above 200km/h... so a solid rocket motor is used to accelerate and climb from its launch position where its scramjet can be started to then accelerate and climb and then fly all the way to the target.

    It is not a ballistic missile, more of a cruise missile.

    Is the 'traveling' height always 30km+?

    There would be no value in sea skimming because that would greatly increase fuel burn and reduce top speed which would dramatically reduce range and performance.

    Can it change direction during that phase or is it going too fast?

    How fast would it need to go before it was too fast to change direction?

    Some of the fastest missiles around are the ABM missiles the Russians use in the ABM system around Moscow... missiles that travel much faster than the 3km/s that Zircon can manage, though they are all solid rocket... but even then if it can't manouver then how could it hit an incoming target?

    When it gets to the target area has it already started to slow down so that it can change trajectory to vertical?

    It is powered all the way, any speed lost will be recovered in the dive to the target...


    Once vertical is it going slow enough to maneuver?

    Why do you think it needs to slow down to manouver?

    When we say manouver... we don't mean performing loops and 90 degree turns...

    A ten degree turn to the left... project an intercept point three kilometres in front of you, then turn ten degrees back to where you were headed originally and go another ten degrees to your right... how far apart are those points... before you turned the interception missiles were headed to a point in space... a turn of 10 degrees and that intercept point shifted quite a distance... remember if the interceptor is 5 seconds away from the interception point, turning 10 degrees shifts that interception point, but the interception network has to measure the turn... they don't know how far you have turned and it will take a second or two before they can determine you turned 10 degrees and then stopped turning, so the new interception point has just moved several kilometres, so your missile doesn't get any extra time, so the new intercept point has moved several kilometres but the time it will take your missile to get to the new interception point means it cannot make it, because the interception missile would also lose speed in its turn and it is now 2 seconds from the old interception point... it might not even be capable of turning to the new intercept point but even starting to try will be very frustrating when they detect the incoming missile has now not only returned to its original course but turned a further ten degrees the other direction, so your intercepting missile lost energy starting to turn that it wont even make the original intercept point now because there is not time to turn back, and even if it could the new intercept point is x times 2 because it is headed in a different direction.

    But that is just being simple... imagine if the incoming missile continuously flew in a random spiral always changing heading and direction... the interceptors likely wont be based directly at the target so the incoming missiles will not get very close to the launch position of the interceptors and make it a little easier by shortening the times of flight.

    If the zircon follows a ballistic trajectory, what makes it different from the iskander, kinzhal, kh-32, etc other than higher speed?

    What an amusing comment... you are correct... but you use terrible examples... Iskander and Kinzhal are rocket boosted ramjet powered missiles that are cruise missiles and not ballistic, while the Kh-32 is a liquid fuelled rocket powered cruise missile.

    The Tochka is a ballistic rocket, as are Smerch and Uragan and Grad rockets.

    It's not a ballistic missile if you think so. A BM, to reach its mach 10 speed, would need to go very high, much higher than 30km.

    Being ballistic does not relate to speed or altitude... the space shuttle leaves earths atmosphere but is not ballistic... it is more of a hypersonic glider.

    Ballistic means like a thrown rock... you accelerate the object to speed either down the barrel of a gun or in the case of a rocket, a rocket motor that burns for a period only to accelerate and climb and then burns out... then without wings... the ballistic object then follows a predictable...Ballistic... trajectory that can be calculated based on the mass and speed and altitude and flight direction of the object.

    These weapons that have been mentioned are powered all the way to the target missiles that do not follow a predictable ballistic flight path.

    But otherwise I agree mostly with what you said LSOS.

    There are rumors it sheds its air breathing elements during terminal phase. But this is speculation based on interpretations of patent info that may have no relation to zircon.

    Sounds unlikely because the scramjet engine running all the way to impact would increase its ability to manuover and maximise its speed at impact.

    But highlights the fact that we really don't know much for sure.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:41 pm

    January 27, 09:17

    Surface-based Zircon missile to be put into service in 2023

    Alexander Leonov, general designer of the Reutov NPO Mashinostroeniya, clarified that the maximum range of the missile exceeds 900 km.

    REUTOV / Moscow region /, January 27. /TASS/. The Zircon surface-based hypersonic missile will be adopted by the Navy in 2023. This was announced to journalists on Friday by the general director, general designer of the Reutov NPO Mashinostroeniya Alexander Leonov.

    Answering a question from TASS whether the range of the Zircon is over 900 km, which was reported by the Ministry of Defense in connection with the long-range voyage of the frigate Admiral Gorshkov, he said: “You know, I’m not talking about performance. What they say military, I confirm. And it is not customary for us to speak more broadly. But this is not the maximum range. The missile should be adopted by the Navy this year."

    According to Leonov, now there are standard procedures in this work. The missile is mass-produced, an example of this - it was put into service by "Admiral Gorshkov". The issue of adopting the missile into service is "purely organizational." "A standard set of procedures and a set of documents for the adoption of Zircon into service is being carried out. There is nothing unusual here," he said.

    The Zircon missile was developed and is being produced at the Reutov NPO Mashinostroeniya (part of the Tactical Missiles Corporation, a member of the Union of Mechanical Engineers of Russia). The first tests of the Zircon were carried out from an underwater carrier, the nuclear submarine Severodvinsk.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16899741

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    Post  Isos Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:53 pm

    I wonder what's the gliding range of a mach 10 missile at 40km altitude. There is almost no air there, even unpowered it should travel easily 100km.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:42 pm

    Everything is unknown when it comes to this weapon.
    As you already know, I also think that the aerial variant of the 3M22 Zircon missile would probably have the greatest range, because such a variant would not waste fuel on separation from the platform (surface-based launcher or submarine-based) and therefore energy to reach the optimal height and flight speed, although work on such a variant has not been disclosed.

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