2S43 "Malva" 152-mm SP howitzer

marcellogo wrote:
Now the BIG problem is that the shoot and scoot tactic was actually found to be a magnet for the attention of UAV and that the SP are insead much more difficult to hide than towed gun in woods or even urban ambient.
So no easy way out.
Actually the EAST came to the wheeled SP artillery BEFORE of West with the Dana, after it  came the South African G-6.
Wheeled "portees" became a thing in the West after the end of Cold War , so Russia was totally incapacitated at the moment..

And firing an high power gun from a wheeled platform is NOT an easy task at all, like someone there seem me to imply, trust the ones who made Centauro for it...

All the Russian towed artillery has to be manhandled and that takes quite a bit of time to deploy and redeploy. A truck mounted gun only needs to lower it's support legs on fairly solid ground to fire - much quicker in and out of the fire position than any towed gun. I really can't see why an SP gun would be harder to conceal than a towed gun - which normally includes a tow truck?

I completely forgot that the Soviets did produce a wheeled SP gun in the 80's - but it was designed for coastal defense.The A-222E Bereg 130mm (AK-130) coastal mobile artillery system. So they were not entirely unfamiliar with such a system



The Dana and the G-6 was developed more or less at the same time. Both were rather unique and proved to be very versatile. The G-6 is a huge vehicle but it was quite nimble and could change positions in less than two minutes. The three guns that were deployed to Angola made very good use of this advantage.



The South African Rooikat armoured car started development a couple of years before the Italian B1 Centauro. The original Rooikat was armed with a copy of the Italian 76mm gun, but it was planned to produce a 105mm version. Only a single prototype was built.

Mir wrote:

marcellogo wrote:
Now the BIG problem is that the shoot and scoot tactic was actually found to be a magnet for the attention of UAV and that the SP are insead much more difficult to hide than towed gun in woods or even urban ambient.
So no easy way out.
Actually the EAST came to the wheeled SP artillery BEFORE of West with the Dana, after it  came the South African G-6.
Wheeled "portees" became a thing in the West after the end of Cold War , so Russia was totally incapacitated at the moment..

And firing an high power gun from a wheeled platform is NOT an easy task at all, like someone there seem me to imply, trust the ones who made Centauro for it...

All the Russian towed artillery has to be manhandled and that takes quite a bit of time to deploy and redeploy. A truck mounted gun only needs to lower it's support legs on fairly solid ground to fire - much quicker in and out of the fire position than any towed gun. I really can't see why an SP gun would be harder to conceal than a towed gun - which normally includes a tow truck?

I completely forgot that the Soviets did produce a wheeled SP gun in the 80's - but it was designed for coastal defense.The A-222E Bereg 130mm (AK-130) coastal mobile artillery system. So they were not entirely unfamiliar with such a system



The Dana and the G-6 was developed more or less at the same time. Both were rather unique and proved to be very versatile. The G-6 is a huge vehicle but it was quite nimble and could change positions in less than two minutes. The three guns that were deployed to Angola made very good use of this advantage.



The South African Rooikat armoured car started development a couple of years before the Italian B1 Centauro. The original Rooikat was armed with a copy of the Italian 76mm gun, but it was planned to produce a 105mm version. Only a single prototype was built.

Maximum respect for the ingenious South Africans: other great masters in developing wheeled armored vehicles but they began the development before and deployed it after us i.e. it means that even nations with a great expertise in this fields struggle in such a field, let's figure the others.
You are right , the great push toward putting EVERY artillery piece on a SP platform was to use the "shoot and scoot" tactics to counteract the action of counter-battery radars.
Now, the experience of the current conflict seems to suggest that given the dissemination of UAVs and Loitering munitions the supposed solution in not so clear cut and above all it cannot be the same at all levels and against all the possible countermeasures.
In any case i'm not saying in any way that the solution wound be to come back sic et simpliciter to towed artillery, quite the contrary.
Just than in some cases, to entrench themselves and put some maskings on could be better than move it anyway (and for this the towed variant has a clear advantage)-
Look however that most of actual wheeled SP mount beginning with Caesar itself need the same to be manually loaded as they were towed pieces.

Not sure the operators of these open artillery vehicles will be thanking the designers much in the middle of a Russian winter at minus 20 degrees C.

They called the Su-76 the bitch because it was open top with only a canvas cover for protection from the weather.

The fact that they are introducing it suggests the tests probably went well.


When responding to a post it is not necessary to repeat that entire post... this is especially true when the post you are replying to has a lot of images or replies already included in it.

marcellogo wrote:
Now, the experience of the current conflict seems to suggest that given the  dissemination of UAVs and Loitering munitions the supposed solution in not so clear cut and above all it cannot be the same at all levels and against all the possible countermeasures.

Look however that most of actual wheeled SP mount beginning with Caesar itself need the same to be manually loaded as they were towed pieces.  

Yes you're right UAV's was a real game changer and a huge eye opener for military planners. Most of them are quite difficult to detect under real field conditions, but plenty of effort has already gone into it. You can expect a lot of advances in countering this threat over the short term.

On the other hand this conflict proved to be an artillery war. Everything was used - from small commando type mortars to heavy field guns. From Grad type rockets to ballistic missiles. All proved to be very effective against a variety of targets (including tanks). Artillery remains the "God of War" - in a war where soldiers on the ground are slogging it out.

A small disadvantage to a SP gun in a UAV with IR sensors environment could be its engine's heat signature when its trying to hide.

Ironically the cost of an SPG means IR camouflage like Nakidka for radar and IR shielding would be justified.

Often towed guns can be located because there are trucks parked nearby too which also have engine signatures.

I suspect the solution to defend from drones will include Lidar and systems to blind or shoot down light drones.

Airburst grenades would be my choice because command detonated 40mm grenades would be useful for other targets on the battlefield too...

The volume in a 40mm grenade is quite big for HE and for ballbearings. A command detonation receiver could be used to set the grenade off at a specific location or time or distance and by putting the complex expensive stuff in the launcher instead of the round makes each round affordable enough to use.

A remote weapon station with a Lidar (laser radar) could track the incoming drones no matter what their RCS or IR signature and it could also track the out going round so setting it off at the optimal position should be easy and relatively cheap.

You could mount them on any vehicle you wanted including Tigrs and even Coalition 2S35s.

Their new 40mm grenade launchers can reach 2.5km with HE rounds which is more effective than most HMGs.