Russia in Indian Armed Forces Tenders:

Russia retains a chance to win the tender for the supply of the Indian Air Force tanker aircraft, valued at half a billion dollars - KLA

15.07.2009

Moscow. July 13. Interfax-AVN - Tender for the supply of the Indian Air Force flying tanker ongoing, and participating in the modernized Russian aircraft IL-78 has all chances to win, said the head of military transport division of United Aircraft Corporation (KLA) Victor Livanov.

"We are participating in the tender for the supply of India's six refueller IL-78. While official results of the tender is not announced by the Indian side. All allegations of victory refueller company" Airbus "are more political in nature", - said V. Livanov.

According to him, in the Indian tender involved tanker aircraft, which are proposed on the basis of deeply modernized military transport aircraft Il-76MD symbol Il-476. The chances of winning the Russian aircraft increases that military transport aircraft IL-76 has long been exploited in India.

IL-476 should be virtually a new wing, in the production of which will apply new technologies, new avionics. It will be equipped with new engines Perm PS-90A-76.

For information on that preference for the Indian Air Force tanker aircraft A330 MRTT, produced by the European concern EADS, extended one of the leading Indian newspaper Hindustan Times. With reference to the Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major newspaper reported that all tests of the aircraft at the tender had been completed and soon will be submitted to the Government proposals for the purchase of aircraft A330 MRTT.

The tender for the delivery of six aircraft tankers was declared the Indian side at the end of 2006, envelopes with price proposals were opened in November 2008. The tender involved Boeing (aircraft Boeing-767), Airbus (A330) and KLA (Il-78MD-90).

Under the terms of the tender, the first delivery of the aircraft must be completed within three years from the date of signing the contract.

Experts estimate that the total contract value could reach more than $ 500 million.

Права на данный материал принадлежат Интерфакс-АВН

Great news. I thought we had lost out to Airbus. This will bring many jobs when we need them most.

Dow Jones Newswires

NEW DELHI – Boeing Co. said Friday it has submitted initial bids to the Indian Air Force offering the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter and the CH-47F Chinook heavy-lift, twin-rotor helicopter.

The proposals, submitted this week, are in response to bids sought by India from global helicopter makers to supply its air force with 22 combat helicopters and 15 heavy-lift helicopters. The total cost of the acquisition is estimated at $2 billion.

Boeing said India is yet to give a date for announcing the winning proposals.

India plans to buy new combat jets and helicopters to modernize its fleet of mainly Soviet-vintage planes as Pakistan and China expand their military capabilities. The Indian Air Force has about 1,700 aircraft, including helicopters and transport planes, according to its Web site.

It is estimated India will buy $31 billion worth of military equipment in the next 10 years, Boeing said last February.

"If selected, Boeing will build the Apache helicopters at its rotorcraft facility in Mesa, Ariz. and the Chinook helicopters at its rotorcraft center in Ridley Park, Pa.," the company said. "Suggested production rates and delivery schedules have not been announced."

Attack helicopter makers such as Russia's Kamov and Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant, Italy's AgustaWestland, a unit of Finmeccanica SpA, and Textron Inc.'s Bell Helicopter unit earlier expressed interest in the deal.

Eurocopter, the helicopter manufacturing unit of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co., had pitched its Tiger attack helicopter for the tender.

This is the second time India has issued a tender for attack helicopters. The first tender--issued in May 2008--was scrapped in March by the government.

Both Boeing and Bell helicopter had pulled out of the original tender as the Indian Air Force wanted to buy directly from the manufacturer, but the U.S. wanted it to be a government-to-government deal, defense ministry officials had said earlier.

Sikorsky Aircraft, a unit of United Technologies Corp., also plans to bid to sell heavy-lift helicopters, its India and South Asia managing director, A.J.S. Walia, said in February.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=11805

Boeing can have it, as long as we get MMRCA!

Yup, Mig-35 for the win!

Ka-52/Mi-26 is mutch batter combo. Ka-52 is mutch cheaper/batter armed/batter agility/ and like hell cheaper missiles that will with HERMES upgrade reach unprecedented lethality althrow Vikhr does its job just fine. Also has batter crew survivability due to its ejection seats. I wont even spend my words on monster Mi-26.

Russia set to take part in new Indian submarine tender

RIA Novosti

04:44 02/07/2011

ST. PETERSBURG, July 2 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will participate in a new tender on the delivery of six diesel-electric submarines for the Indian Navy, the state-run exporter Rosoboronexport said.

Russia dropped out of the first Indian submarine tender in 2009.

"There is a new tender, with the new requirements, and together with [Russia's] Rubin design bureau we are making a proposal to India for Amur 650 class submarines," Azizov told reporters at IMDS-2011 naval show in St. Petersburg on Friday.

Azizov said that Amur class is a fourth-generation vessel, and "Russia has all chances to win the tender."

The Indian Navy said in February it will announce a global tender for procuring six next generation submarines worth about $11 billion by the end of 2011.

India is building six Scorpene submarines the Mazgaon Dockyards Limited (MDL) under a deal with France's DCNS. However, the Indian side said it would need submarines "with better stealth capability, improved detection range and combat management system."

According to Azizov, Amur class subs match these requirements perfectly, as their sonar signature level is several times less than that of Kilo class submarines which are considered at present the most silent in the world.

In addition, Amur 650 could be equipped with the Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems on the basis of fuel cells to increase considerably the endurance and cruise range in a submerged state.

According to Indian sources, France, Germany and Spain will also participate in the tender.

The Indian Navy is planning to commission at least 12 submarines in the next decade to strengthen its depleted submarine fleet.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/india/2011/india-110702-rianovosti01.htm

apache is a tested machine, and it can effetively give indian armour protection agaist any hostile attacks .

Not necessarily, what if some senator wakes up on wrong side of bed and decides to slap sanctions on India and there are no spare parts to service those super Apaches, then what??

Apache is not that well armoured... even 50 cal ball ammo seems to penetrate the side canopy... and that side canopy is a large area.

The Apache requires a lot of support to keep it operational.

It is of course completely up to India, but I think when the Mi-28 is fully mature it will be a better aircraft in every respect. Right now I have some questions about whether its radar systems all work properly, but I would expect it would be much simpler and cheaper to operate, with rather better armour and weapons that are likely cheaper and already in Indian service.

Vladimir79 wrote:Boeing can have it, as long as we get MMRCA!

mig allreadt out of the race

mig allreadt out of the race

The Mig was the only plane in the competition that was going to cost you 10 billion or less for 126 planes.

Rafale or Typhoon is going to be $100 million plus per aircraft so you are going to save money on spare parts and training.

Typhoon comes in so many "tranches" and none of them have real air to ground performance yet.

Buying Rafale would be hilarous because the original plan was to simply buy more Mirage 2000s and the French said no... buy Rafales for lots more money, to which India said no, lets have a competition and get something cheaper...

Ka-52 would be better than Apache.

Better Air to Air missile with more range and superior resistance to countermeasures. If they wanted a moveable gun turret they could get the IAI gun turret Turkey wanted.



If China attacks the US when it tries to deliver Apache's/F-16's to Taiwan....India may find a problem getting parts for Apache's. Unless they buy the wreckage from China at a discount..."slightly burnt".

On a standard helicopter... and I mean the traditional helicopter with a large main rotor and a small anti torque tail rotor when a helo is flying forward at speed the little tail rotor simply doesn't have the force needed for pedal turns because the air flowing over the airframe applies too much force to keep the nose pointed forward.

In a coaxial rotor helo like the Ka-52 however it is the torque of the blades that turns the helo in pedal turns and the rotational force of the two sets of opposite rotating main rotors is enormous.

Basically what I am trying to say is that the Kamov helo doesn't need a gun turret like an Apache because the Kamov helo can perform pedal turns over a much wider range of its flight envelope and is able to aim not just its gun but all its pylon mounted weapons at a target while not directly flying towards that target.

The result is that the gun is attached to the aircraft near the aircrafts centre of gravity, which leads to much greater cannon accuracy than any other helo, despite using ammo that is rather more powerful than other ammo types used in helos.

GarryB wrote:

mig allreadt out of the race

The Mig was the only plane in the competition that was going to cost you 10 billion or less for 126 planes.

Rafale or Typhoon is going to be $100 million plus per aircraft so you are going to save money on spare parts and training.

Typhoon comes in so many "tranches" and none of them have real air to ground performance yet.

Buying Rafale would be hilarous because the original plan was to simply buy more Mirage 2000s and the French said no... buy Rafales for lots more money, to which India said no, lets have a competition and get something cheaper...

but urs tech is outdated and migs weapon carring capabillity is not good enough ,and after sales service ,as for the russian planes ,i know its pathetic.

but urs tech is outdated and migs weapon carring capabillity is not good enough ,and after sales service ,as for the russian planes ,i know its pathetic.

Yeah, AESA is rubbish, and of course the 360 degree EO system for air and ground targets is completely unnecessary... and the fact that you already have 60 odd older model Mig-29s that are being upgraded right now and your navy is buying Mig-29Ks... it is just more of the same quality product that seems to deliver what your Army and Navy want.

BTW what exactly is wrong with the Mig-35s carrying capacity?

It can carry 2,000ltr fuel tanks, which means it should also be able to carry the KAB-1500 bombs and Kh-59MK missiles and other similar weapons.

It wont be carrying Brahmos, but then you want a large aircraft for that anyway.

Look at the program to fit long range cruise missiles to Il-76 transports... it would be an ideal platform to carry Brahmos in significant numbers in a way that doesn't reveal its military nature till missiles start falling out the rear...

BTW After sales service is a service you organise and pay for... if you expect it to just happen... well you are in for a surprise.

If you want to save money and buy parts on the Eastern European market then you are going to get burned.

India seems happy to spend 10 years negotiating contracts to save a few dollars here and there and get extra bits and bobs added there, but doesn't seem to find the time to negotiate support agreements.

Might come as a shock but spares and support is an area of planning and logistics and seems to have been ignored by so many militaries... a spares pool used to be standard practise, but when you are counting pennies then it saves money to simply buy parts when you need them.

Of course grounding your aircraft because parts take longer than expected saves even more money because you are not burning fuel or risking pilots.

The real question of course is your focus on saving money or having an air force.

The huge irony is that you are now going to buy western aircraft, and I agree their support and service performance is excellent... it is also very expensive.

Perhaps if you spent half the money you are going to spend on these new western planes on a serious spares and support program for Russian aircraft you might get what you want... at half the price.

You wanted more Mirage 2000s and France said no, buy Rafales for $100 million each... you said no that is too expensive.

When you do the calculation and work out that these new Rafales you are buying will cost $120 million each just think about that for a few minutes...

GarryB wrote:

but urs tech is outdated and migs weapon carring capabillity is not good enough ,and after sales service ,as for the russian planes ,i know its pathetic.

Yeah, AESA is rubbish, and of course the 360 degree EO system for air and ground targets is completely unnecessary... and the fact that you already have 60 odd older model Mig-29s that are being upgraded right now and your navy is buying Mig-29Ks... it is just more of the same quality product that seems to deliver what your Army and Navy want.

BTW what exactly is wrong with the Mig-35s carrying capacity?

It can carry 2,000ltr fuel tanks, which means it should also be able to carry the KAB-1500 bombs and Kh-59MK missiles and other similar weapons.

It wont be carrying Brahmos, but then you want a large aircraft for that anyway.

Look at the program to fit long range cruise missiles to Il-76 transports... it would be an ideal platform to carry Brahmos in significant numbers in a way that doesn't reveal its military nature till missiles start falling out the rear...

BTW After sales service is a service you organise and pay for... if you expect it to just happen... well you are in for a surprise.

If you want to save money and buy parts on the Eastern European market then you are going to get burned.

India seems happy to spend 10 years negotiating contracts to save a few dollars here and there and get extra bits and bobs added there, but doesn't seem to find the time to negotiate support agreements.

Might come as a shock but spares and support is an area of planning and logistics and seems to have been ignored by so many militaries... a spares pool used to be standard practise, but when you are counting pennies then it saves money to simply buy parts when you need them.

Of course grounding your aircraft because parts take longer than expected saves even more money because you are not burning fuel or risking pilots.

The real question of course is your focus on saving money or having an air force.

The huge irony is that you are now going to buy western aircraft, and I agree their support and service performance is excellent... it is also very expensive.

Perhaps if you spent half the money you are going to spend on these new western planes on a serious spares and support program for Russian aircraft you might get what you want... at half the price.

You wanted more Mirage 2000s and France said no, buy Rafales for $100 million each... you said no that is too expensive.

When you do the calculation and work out that these new Rafales you are buying will cost $120 million each just think about that for a few minutes...

recently cag (controller and auditory general ) raps navy to buy mig-29 k without weapon ,they say its a total wastage of money and the irony is the carrier is still no way vissible ,if this type of delay continious ,rissian will be lagging behind in race to supply weapon platform to india.

Of course... the guy is clearly an idiot.

What is the point of an aircraft carrier?

Is it to look big and shiny, or is it to carry aircraft?

What is the point of buying an aircraft if you don't have the planes?

More importantly what is the point of gettig an aircraft carrier and then getting the planes so you have your nice shiny carrier and a few planes to sit on the decks but no pilots trained to fly those planes from that carrier.

It is not rocket science to work out that a carrier is nothing without aircraft AND pilots to fly those aircraft that are actually trained to operate aircraft from an aircraft carrier and that without the planes you can't train pilots to fly the aircraft they will be flying.

Weapons are not urgent now, because the training will be focusing on takeoffs and landings and aircraft ordinance has a limited lifespan on a weapon pylon so you never carry real weapons during takeoff and landing practise.
It would be like wearing a condom while having a w@nk. Pardon my French.

Once the carriers arrive then they can start by practising takeoffs and landings for real and then do a bit of navigation practise and then they will likely look at night launches and landings as the toughest skills, and then weapon training can start.

Instead of buying the old Russian aircraft carrier which will have to be gutted and rebuilt....India had another option.

Look at allll the cargo container ships sitting idle since exports stopped. India could pick up a couple cargo container ships cheap. Put a team of welders/cutters on it for a few months to make a basic carrier and spend a couple years practicing launching and landing propellor planes and helo's. CHEAP.

Once you have a few aces put a couple Mig-29k's on the ships.

India wasted its money with the old Russian cruiser which needs major work to ever become a carrier.

Atleast the cheap container ships you could pick up already have modern diesel power plants.

On paper it sounds like a great idea, but there is an enormous difference between a civilian cargo ship and a military vessel... not the least of which is damage control in design and structure.

The electronic equipment needed for a Carrier would look completely out of place on a converted cargo ship and would make the vessel quite distinctive.

Such ideas are great for quick conversions during war but during peace time the secret is revealed and cargo vessels are very easy to hit and sink and a "carrier cargo boat" would be justification to destroy any cargo vessels you come across that are acting suspiciously.

The real problem was that after India decided to go for a quick short term stop gap solution... they spent the next decade going over the contract with a fine tooth comb.

If they had not been so bureaucratic and penny pinching and signed the contract in 2000 instead of 2005 the vessel would have been in service for a while and would likely have been fully operational now.

Of course I have said it before and I will say it again... if you don't like spending money... don't buy aircraft carriers.

Bad news,

Russian Mi-28N Night Hunter has lost a tender on the delivery of 22 attack helicopters to the Indian military in strong competition with the American AH-64D Apache, an Indian Defense Ministry source said on Tuesday.
“We decided not to choose the Mi-28 for technical reasons. Our experts believe that the Mi-28N did not meet the requirements of the tender on 20 positions, while the Apache showed better performance,” the source said.
The future contract, worth at least $600 million, envisions an optional delivery of additional 22 helicopters.
Russia is still taking part in two other Indian helicopter tenders: on the delivery of 12 heavy transport helicopters and 197 light general-purpose helicopters.

The first tender includes the Russian Mi-26T2 and the American CH-47F Chinook helicopters, while the second involves the Russian Ka-226T and the AS550 Fennec helicopter, developed by Eurocopter.
Meanwhile, Russia continues the deliveries of Mi-17-B5 transport helicopters to India under a 2008 contract for the supply of 80 helicopters worth $1.4 billion.
The Indian military helicopter market, with its potential demand for 700 helicopters in the next decade, fuels fierce competition among foreign manufacturers.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20111025/168096811.html

The West are kicking our ass right out of India.

I think it is about politics. It seems India want to ally US to herself for counterbalance against China and Pakistan, while Russia want to be more neutral here.

Vladimir79 wrote:The West are kicking our ass right out of India.

Maybe.

I would wait for the results of the heavy helicopter and light army helicopter tenders before I pass judgement.

The Mi-28N seems to me to be unfinished, while the AH-64 is a mature system.

It is not a huge surprise that the AH-64 won this competition, but lets see what strings are attached.

Mil are talking about a Mi-28M version with improved systems and aerodynamics etc etc.

One of the main changes will be the EO system being changed to something like that fitted to the Ka-52s, and of course the radar system has been having problems too.

Mil have said they will be looking to start production of the Mi-28M in about 2014/2015, and by then the bugs in the radar system should be sorted out and the aircraft ready to be what it should have been.

Makes perfect sense for India to want a fully operational and capable helo, and while the Mi-28 has potential it probably isn't "there" yet.

The Mi-28 is a significant step up from the old basic Mi-24, and it has every potential to actually be better than the AH-64D, in terms of protection, in terms of engine performance, in terms of reliability and maintainence, and in terms of costs, but the AH-64D has had years of operational experience and its systems have been tested and tweaked and improved, while the under funded Mi-28 has been to lots of airshows, but without full funding has largely stagnated.

Now there is funding and even the base Mi-28A model is better than the Mi-24 it is replacing in terms of protection and fire power, but the Mi-28N needs a little more work.

The Mi-28M will also sort out a number of issues including full dual control for flight training and combat safety, it will also have the ammo magazines for the 30mm cannon moved up into the cheeks of the nose with ammo supply greatly increased but with reduced drag, and new EO and perhaps radar systems, plus new more powerful engines, and new weapons options including Krisantema missiles with 8km range and also HERMES.