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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

    Backman
    Backman

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28 - Page 18 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

    Post  Backman on Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:13 pm

    ^ Russia has basically been using the Taiwan model as Anatoly Karlin wrote about in 2018. Here are some bullet points of his report. https://www.unz.com/akarlin/31-steps-for-ukraine/

    “Winning hearts and minds,” apart from being a cuck move, is unfeasible anyway; even going so far as giving back Crimea will not restore goodwill and invite only well-deserved contempt. Going back to giving gibsmedats (e.g. gas subsidies) would also be idiotic. Even the kremlins have realized this that you don’t buy loyalty or friendship with that, though they have yet to extend that lesson to the rest of the Sovietstans.

    Reunification through military means was ruled out – probably permanently – in May 2014, when Putin recognized Poroshenko as the legitimately elected President of the Ukraine. While certain nationalists, including on this blog, still entertain fantasies about invading the Ukraine and ruling it like a Reichskommissariat, that would be worse than just immoral – it would almost certainly fail, since it buys into the narrative that Ukrainians can only become Russians at the point of a gun.

    At the same time, Russia has no obligation to tolerate the existence of a hostile anti-Russian project on its borders that furthermore has the gall to parasite on Russian history and culture on account of possessing so little of its own. The Ukraine needs to be strip mined of its human capital.

    For inspiration, I would look to China’s “31 Steps for Taiwan” program.

        On Feb. 28, it unveiled a package of 31 “incentives” to attract Taiwanese people and businesses to the mainland, offering tax breaks and subsidies for high-tech companies, research grants for academics, and a promise to allow Taiwanese companies to bid for government infrastructure projects and even become involved in China’s “One Belt, One Road” global development plan.

       China called the measures an expression of its belief that there is “one family” on both sides of the Taiwan Strait. Taiwanese Vice Premier Shih Jun-ji cast it as an effort to undermine the island’s economy.

       “China’s attempt to attract Taiwan’s capital and talent, especially high tech and young students, has clear political intentions,” he said at a news conference, unveiling eight counter­measures designed to keep people at home.

       In 2012, Oxford Economics judged that Taiwan faced the largest “talent deficit” among 46 countries surveyed, and the research firm recently said that the conclusion stands today.

    Taiwan’s performance on the Nature Index, a proxy for elite scientific output, has collapsed by 40% in the past five years – the largest collapse of any country. A testament to the success of the 31 Steps.

    Meanwhile, the development of a separate Taiwanese identity, which had previously grown rapidly, has basically stalled in this same period.

    Now in one sense, this will be harder, since China is much bigger than Taiwan, and Ukraine also has an association agreement with the EU. But in another sense, it will also be easier, because Russian wages are 3x higher than Ukrainian ones, whereas it’s the opposite ratio between China and Taiwan. Russia needs to come up with a program along the lines of China’s “31 Measures for Taiwan,” involving a complex package of subsidies, marketing, and immigration deregulation to strip mine the separatist entity of its human capital. By strip mining the Ukraine of human capital, I mean something more sophisticated than just open borders and handing out Russian passports like candy (though that should certainly also be done, even if Poland will necessarily do better for now on account of its higher wages).

    I mean selectively targeting Ukraine’s remaining elites and O-Ring sectors for transplantation into Russia wholesale, which is specifically what China is doing to Taiwan – successfully, despite their triple wage differential (my post on how the small, complex O-Ring sector determines wages for the economy as a whole).

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    kvs
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28 - Page 18 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

    Post  kvs on Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:26 pm

    The thing is that this 31-steps transition has already hit Ukraine in 2014 and later. That is why Kharkov tank factories ceased
    production of new tanks and are barely able to get old junk into service. Similar magical loss of capability is seen elsewhere
    in Ukraine's economy. Collapse factors well over 40% are in evidence. Millions of Ukrainians voted with their feet
    after the 2014 Nazi coup and these were the cream of the crop. People who understood that economic ties to Russia were
    not superfluous and who actually had skills other than Maidan hopping like retarded rabbits.

    I do not think that the current left-overs in Ukraine are worth harvesting. Let them go to NATzO and clean toilets.
    The anti-Russian project called Banderastan is an economic husk already. It is in the final stages of catabolic rot
    and NATzO is not going to pony up the hundreds of billions of dollars needed to resurrect it. This may sound exaggerated,
    but the facts are there to show it. Also, Ukraine got between 200 and 300 billion dollars from Russia between 1991 and
    2014. This is not chump change and has stopped. Belorus should take note.

    The idiots who are in charge in Kiev have even screwed over their own civilian airline industry by banning Russian overflights.
    Their one-note-Johnny, Russia-hating brains did not account for geography. Russia can bypass Ukraine with no effort and
    trivial costs, but Banderastan cannot bypass Russia without making prime revenue routes (e.g. South-East Asia for tourism)
    into money losing operations.

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    Tai Hai Chen
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28 - Page 18 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

    Post  Tai Hai Chen on Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:22 pm

    kvs wrote:The thing is that this 31-steps transition has already hit Ukraine in 2014 and later.   That is why Kharkov tank factories ceased
    production of new tanks and are barely able to get old junk into service.   Similar magical loss of capability is seen elsewhere
    in Ukraine's economy.   Collapse factors well over 40% are in evidence.   Millions of Ukrainians voted with their feet
    after the 2014 Nazi coup and these were the cream of the crop.   People who understood that economic ties to Russia were
    not superfluous and who actually had skills other than Maidan hopping like retarded rabbits.  

    I do not think that the current left-overs in Ukraine are worth harvesting.   Let them go to NATzO and clean toilets.
    The anti-Russian project called Banderastan is an economic husk already.   It is in the final stages of catabolic rot
    and NATzO is not going to pony up the hundreds of billions of dollars needed to resurrect it.    This may sound exaggerated,
    but the facts are there to show it.   Also, Ukraine got between 200 and 300 billion dollars from Russia between 1991 and
    2014.   This is not chump change and has stopped.   Belorus should take note.

    The idiots who are in charge in Kiev have even screwed over their own civilian airline industry by banning Russian overflights.
    Their one-note-Johnny, Russia-hating brains did not account for geography.   Russia can bypass Ukraine with no effort and
    trivial costs, but Banderastan cannot bypass Russia without making prime revenue routes (e.g. South-East Asia for tourism)
    into money losing operations.


    Turkey has been pumping billions into Ukraine. Turkey use Ukraine as Turkey's sword against Russia to rebuild the Ottoman.
    Backman
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28 - Page 18 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

    Post  Backman on Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:24 pm

    Tai Hai Chen wrote:



    Turkey has been pumping billions into Ukraine. Turkey use Ukraine as Turkey's sword against Russia to rebuild the Ottoman.

    Turkey doesn't have billions to pump. I heard the other day that Turkey actually has negative foreign exchange reserves currently. Since I believe in the multi polar world, I don't oppose Turkey trying to become a real power instead of a Nato patsy. But Erdogan has made dictator mistake after dictator mistake. Firing your central bank head and appointing yourself is about the most ridiculous dictator mistake as you can get. The Turkish economy is a disaster and that is sad for the people of Turkey.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28 - Page 18 Turkey-foreign-exchange-reserves-2020-09-17

    This fringe collaboration between Ukraine and Turkey is cute. It is not Nato/US sanctioned collaboration so Russia doesn't have to worry about it.

    Russia itself has more connection with Turkey than Ukraine does. The Russian defense minister and Putins spokesman are fluent in Turkish.

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    GarryB
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28 - Page 18 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

    Post  GarryB Yesterday at 9:05 am

    If Turkey wants to waste its money down a very deep and corrupt money pit called the Ukraine then let them... it in no way hurts Russia.


    I would think a 10 step programme to let the Ukraine continue to kill itself would be a safer bet for Russia... they are never going to be much more than a more larger Albania, except Albania is in the EU isn't it?

    Russia is not obliged to save the Ukraine... people often drown trying to save people who are drowning... the victim panics and starts thrashing around and ends up drowning the person trying to rescue them and then drown themselves... it is hard to just watch, but they are doing this all themselves... on purpose... it is suicide and if Russia tries to interfere then it will find they will try to take them with them...

    And for what?

    Most of the real talent has already either left for Russia or the EU, anything worth anything that was not bolted down probably now belongs to Americans or Chinese or Turkey... Russia isn't going to get those back and nor is the Ukraine.

    In the future when the US has gotten off its high horse the regimes they propped up will have to learn to fend for themselves... which they can only do with honest trade with neighbours and other countries around the world.

    Russia and Ukraine might never even be friends but that hurts the Ukraine more than it hurts Russia.

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28 - Page 18 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

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