Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+59
Arkanghelsk
Rodion_Romanovic
AMCXXL
Scorpius
owais.usmani
lancelot
Arrow
marcellogo
ALAMO
Navy fanboy
Podlodka77
LMFS
Kiko
chinggis
Sujoy
mnztr
kumbor
Gibraltar
Hole
miroslav
Tsavo Lion
verkhoturye51
The-thing-next-door
Airman
eridan
archangelski
chicken
ozpirate
hoom
Big_Gazza
SeigSoloyvov
OminousSpudd
Isos
GRU
JohninMK
PapaDragon
magnumcromagnon
Backinblack
GunshipDemocracy
AlfaT8
Vann7
collegeboy16
Stealthflanker
Viktor
Kimppis
Naval Fan
kvs
Cyberspec
Firebird
flamming_python
George1
Austin
TR1
runaway
GarryB
IronsightSniper
ekacipta021292
Russian Patriot
Admin
63 posters

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    avatar
    T-47


    Posts : 266
    Points : 264
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  T-47 Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:04 pm

    Need "haha" reaction for some posts in this forum

    AMCXXL dislikes this post

    AMCXXL
    AMCXXL


    Posts : 995
    Points : 995
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  AMCXXL Sun Jul 16, 2023 6:12 am

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/18272787
    Source: the cruiser "Peter the Great" will be decommissioned after the return to service of the "Admiral Nakhimov"

    A significant part of the crew of "Peter the Great" has already passed on board the "Nakhimov"


    MOSCOW, 14 July. /TASS/. The heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Pyotr Veliky" will be decommissioned after repair and modernization of the same type ship "Admiral Nakhimov". This was reported to TASS by a source close to the Navy.

    "The fundamental decision to decommission Peter the Great has been made. This should happen after the return of Admiral Nakhimov to service," he said.

    According to the interlocutor of the agency, in anticipation of the transfer of "Admiral Nakhimov" to the fleet, a significant part of the crew of "Peter the Great" went on board the "Nakhimov". The rest of the crew of "Peter the Great" ensures its survivability.

    TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.



    In June, during the International Maritime Defense Show (IMDS-2023), the head of Sevmash, Mikhail Budnichenko, told TASS that the cruiser Admiral Nakhimov, after repair and modernization at the enterprise, could enter sea trials in December 2023 or May 2024. According to him, the cruiser is at the final stage of repair and modernization, more than 3 thousand people are involved in the work. At the same time, mooring trials of the ship are underway. It is preparing to move in the crew.

    About cruisers


    "Admiral Nakhimov" has been under repair since 1999. Real work on it has been carried out since 2013. The main result of the modernization is a noticeable increase in its striking power. It is planned that it will carry, in particular, 10 universal ship-based firing systems for 8 Caliber-NK and/or Oniks cruise missiles each, and in the future it will receive Zircon hypersonic missiles.

    On April 18, the cruiser "Peter the Great" celebrated the 25th anniversary of the raising of the St. Andrew's flag. The ship is the flagship of the Northern Fleet, the largest operating non-aircraft carrier strike warship in the world. Refers to project 1144.2 (code "Orlan", according to NATO codification - Kirov Class). It is equipped with a nuclear power plant and guided missile weapons. Designed to destroy large surface targets, provide integrated air defense and anti-submarine defense. 

    owais.usmani likes this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6952
    Points : 7044
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  ALAMO Sun Jul 16, 2023 9:15 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Honestly I hate it when people say things like that... because first of all it is bullshit they have made up in their heads.


    But he is absolutely right.
    You are bigger than better type of guy, that is why you don't like pragmatics Very Happy
    A whole Nakimov saga started more than a decade ago, when the ship was - objectively - in quite decent condition. The banner was raised only in Dec 1988, and it was not heavily used because of the political/economic situation. Placed in 1999 at yards bay, it could have been considered almost a new capital ship.
    On the other hand, PtG was extensively used, because it was the flagman for its entire career. We are talking about a ship that goes on high steam for the last 15 years. While it is not a very long time from naval perspective, the ship faced a whole drama of the 90s, and we have not a single idea what has been compromised only to place it in the ranks after 10 years of struggling.
    Reconstructing of the Nakimov turned to be a painful and long lasting process, and the price is huge.
    It took so long, that a whole naval doctrine changed in the background.
    The need of retaining those behemoths is getting smaller and smaller each day. And what we are facing now, is the fact that Russia is obviously much more pragmatic than anyone in the west expected.
    At the cost of upgrading PtG, they can have a dozen of river class Kalibr carriers. Or a few ice class patrol vessels they need in the Arctic. PtG crew is enough to man four 22350 frigates.

    AMCXXL likes this post

    T-47 dislikes this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3303
    Points : 3305
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 16, 2023 9:42 am

    AMCXXL wrote:TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.

    It is true that some of the crew was transferred to the Nikhamov - probably to get some people on board with experience that knows how to operate the ship and that can train the new recruits.

    My guess is that Peter will be withdrawn from service yes - but to get a similar upgrade than the Nikhamov, but I guess we will know soon enough.

    It makes little sense to have gone through the pain of a deep modernizing of the Nakhimov and then to let the much younger Peter go for scrap. Unless the navy deems the Nakhimov's upgrade as a failure. This upgrade was obviously expensive but I'm pretty confident that it was a success.

    The two remaining sisters can serve for a very long to come and is ideal for blue water operations.

    GarryB, T-47 and Hole like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6952
    Points : 7044
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  ALAMO Sun Jul 16, 2023 9:54 am

    I would take 22350M instead at any moment bro Smile
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3303
    Points : 3305
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 16, 2023 9:59 am

    Sure but you need a big dick (or stick if you wish) to make the US understand that you mean business. They don't understand small talk No

    GarryB and T-47 like this post

    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 2852
    Points : 2844
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Arrow Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:04 am

    Sure but you need a big dick (or stick if you wish) to make the US understand that you mean business. They don't understand small talk No wrote:

    In addition, the 22350M exists in the form of some project. Construction has not started yet. Perhaps this ship will appear in a decade or more if all goes well.
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3303
    Points : 3305
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:09 am

    Arrow wrote:

    In addition, the 22350M exists in the form of some project. Construction has not started yet. Perhaps this ship will appear in a decade or more if all goes well.

    Much sooner than that.
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6952
    Points : 7044
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  ALAMO Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:18 am

    Mir wrote:Sure but you need a big dick (or stick if you wish) to make the US understand that you mean business. They don't understand small talk No

    That is what imperial Japan would agree with you Laughing
    Didn't end well Twisted Evil

    T-47 dislikes this post

    AMCXXL
    AMCXXL


    Posts : 995
    Points : 995
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  AMCXXL Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:25 am

    Mir wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.

    It is true that some of the crew was transferred to the Nikhamov - probably to get some people on board with experience that knows how to operate the ship and that can train the new recruits.

    My guess is that Peter will be withdrawn from service yes - but to get a similar upgrade than the Nikhamov, but I guess we will know soon enough.

    It makes little sense to have gone through the pain of a deep modernizing of the Nakhimov and then to let the much younger Peter go for scrap. Unless the navy deems the Nakhimov's upgrade as a failure. This upgrade was obviously expensive but I'm pretty confident that it was a success.

    The two remaining sisters can serve for a very long to come and is ideal for blue water operations.

    The Peter the Great was launched in 1989 just 3 years after the Nakhimov.
    Under normal conditions it would have entered service in 1991 or 1992, but between fucking Gorbachev and Yeltsin they screwed everything up.

    Of course I would like PtG to remain in service, but I think the decision to retire her was made when it was decided that the Nakhimov would remain in the Northern Fleet instead of being sent to the Pacific.
    IF Russia had 2 aircraft carriers it would be logical to keep the two cruisers to have two battle groups.
    In the same way, I would withdraw the two Slava's, or at least when more 22350 arrive.

    I think it is time to turn the page and remove all the Soviet hardware that is not really useful in the current context and invest the money and efforts in a new generation of smaller ships, more automated and with more effective weapons to deny navigation with impunity. in the ocean to the western colonialist powers

    I only see a need to modernize some Udaloy's in addition to some Akula's and Oscar II's as is already being done, to cover the gap until 22350M and future Husky's arrive, while accelerating the Yasen and 22350
    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 2852
    Points : 2844
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Arrow Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:31 am

    ore automated and with more effective weapons to deny navigation with impunity. in the ocean to the western colonialist powers wrote:

    Russia is not able to compete with the Western navy. Too much Western advantage. Russia is a land power.
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3303
    Points : 3305
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:37 am

    I hear what you guys are saying and from a $ point of view it makes sense to get rid of the Soviet ships, but to me blue water navy ships play an important role in showing the flag. They are diplomats if you wish.

    Arriving in Havana with the Gorshkov would send a different message than when you announce your arrival with the Peter.

    GarryB likes this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6952
    Points : 7044
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  ALAMO Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:50 am

    Arriving Havana with a cargo would do more dramaturgy from the local perspective Laughing
    While from the US navy perspective, there is no difference. Maybe a division of 885Ms stationing there would make one Laughing
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3303
    Points : 3305
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:05 am

    Arrow wrote:

    Russia is not able to compete with the Western navy. Too much Western advantage. Russia is a land power.

    That would have true till a few years ago but then Tsirkon happened. welcome

    GarryB and Arrow like this post

    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 2852
    Points : 2844
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Arrow Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:12 am

    Yes, Cirkon changes the game. However, it is now more suitable for defending the Russian economic zone. In the far ocean, to be effective, Russia must have a global satellite targeting system. Something like Legend. Currently, they have an insignificant coverage of the globe, which is enough for Russian economic zones, etc
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39356
    Points : 39854
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:49 am

    There's just no point in having two nuclear cruisers right now, fleets start with patrol ships and corvettes not imperial destroyers.

    Frigates and Corvettes operate in Russian waters and do not project Russian influence anywhere at all.

    I understand the west wants Russia to become isolated, they have been trying to isolate them for centuries... the advice in the 1990s was that you have oil and resources, you don't need to make anything, just sell us the energy and raw resources and buy everything you need from us using the money we buy your energy and raw materials with.

    Nearly destroyed Venezuela when they started playing with the value of energy to almost destroy them...

    The reason for keeping the Kuznestov and a Nuclear Cruiser is to keep the specific service and know how in the Navy

    The reason for keeping cruisers and carriers is to retain global operational reach at a time when smaller vessels can be built to replace cold war era ships.

    Big ships are going to be bigger versions of the smaller ships because the weapons and sensors and equipment is modular... obviously the bigger ships can have bigger guns and bigger sonars and bigger radars and bigger sensor arrays, but they will have more missiles. Once they start producing them increasing production should not be a huge problem... really the only sticking point is the power generation, which will likely be nuclear for destroyers and cruisers and carriers.

    Where does he get a first-class cruise crew of 750, including an experienced Rear Admiral to captain him, from the employment office?

    The navy is expanding, and it took quite a few years to upgrade one ship, which is time to train new crews as needed.

    the workforce released by the Nakhimov will be used to speed up work on the Yasen in Sevmash or to modernize Akulas in Zvyozdochka, the money for anything else, more frigates, corvettes or SSKs, the reason some programs are so slow is In addition to limited money, the lack of personnel in the shipyards, especially in the North

    How many Yasens do they even plan to make... sounds to me that having a couple of cruisers available to sail with the Kuznetsov for testing makes more sense than having lots of extra ship builders hanging around until they have decided which frigates they want to serially build in large numbers.

    Did you know that Murmansk Oblast lost almost half of its population in 30 years?? from 1.2 million to just 650,000? Lack of workforce is the biggest constraint to Russia's industrial growth

    And scrapping ships helps how?

    They don't have a lot of cruisers and wont be able to build more for quite some time, so it makes sense to keep the ones they have.

    They don't need enormous money spent on them... even just fitting those new naval TOR missiles would protect them from drones and most threats at sea... and the missiles are cheap enough.

    On the other hand, the large combat ships are a thing of the past, floating targets.

    You keep saying that but the production schedule of the US and France seems to contradict that... even though they are in a much worse situation than anything Russia puts in the water.

    Russia is a continental power,

    Russia WAS a continental power but it is bordered by a bunch of censored who seem to prefer murdering Russians than talking to them.

    When Russia closes its embassies in the EU and closes its borders to those hostile countries then its navy is going to give it its vital links to its new trade partners in the rest of the world.

    the strategy is to DENY THE OCEAN to the Yankee navy, that is achieved with hypersonic missiles and nuclear torpedoes.

    Russia does not need a carrier group to fight WWIII, it needs them to ensure it can operate where it pleases and retain sea based trade links with the rest of the world.

    The middle of the ocean has no value anymore and today no ship can safely approach less than 1000 or 2000 miles from the coast, you will not see an American aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf ever again

    Russia had to develop hypersonic missiles to defeat US carriers groups... Russian naval air defence systems will be even better than the air centric US model for their colonial strike carriers.

    TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.


    At the cost of upgrading PtG, they can have a dozen of river class Kalibr carriers. Or a few ice class patrol vessels they need in the Arctic. PtG crew is enough to man four 22350 frigates.

    The INF treaty is gone... why piss around with river restricted boats carrying cruise missiles when they can just add some trucks to Iskander units to carry ground launched 5,000km cruise missiles much much cheaper.

    They are already making ice class patrol vessels, what they lack is larger longer endurance ships that can operate with the Kuznetsov and actually contribute to air defence rather than detract from it... and what use would four more frigates be?

    My guess is that Peter will be withdrawn from service yes - but to get a similar upgrade than the Nikhamov, but I guess we will know soon enough.

    Of course they want to get new ships as quickly as possible but these two cruisers offer the easiest options for missile system upgrades... UKSK launchers and Redut SAM launchers can be fitted rather more easily into Orlan/Kirov class ships than Atlant/Slava class cruisers.

    They want their new destroyers and new cruisers to be nuclear powered along with new CVNs eventually which means perhaps the PtG could be used to test new AESA radars and new large sonars but also S-500 SAMs and of course newer SAMs of the S-350 and S-400 range, as well as 152mm guns and new nuclear power plants... but I suspect their new destroyers and cruisers will be electric drive ships with NPPs for power generation and small gas turbines and diesels for backup energy production... an Orlan would offer lots of space for testing all sorts of things... the old computer systems on the Orlans would be enormous and bulky and heavy and its replacement and automation should reduce crew requirements substantially, but equally new drones and anti drone systems could also be tested.

    I would take 22350M instead at any moment bro

    For all we know it might be a dog.... that is why they test before making serious decisions... and that applies to Frigate upgrades and cruiser upgrades... and aircraft carrier upgrades.

    That is what imperial Japan would agree with you

    The japs are owned... Americas puppets...

    Didn't end well

    Actually things are changing and it is not looking good for the US at all... I rather doubt they will get Fords to replace all their existing carriers... but even if they did the Russians already have the solution to the problem... but as I keep pointing out... Russia needs carriers to provide air coverage for their surface ships... it will be their surface ships and subs that will be destroying enemy navies and airforces and countries.

    IF Russia had 2 aircraft carriers it would be logical to keep the two cruisers to have two battle groups.
    In the same way, I would withdraw the two Slava's, or at least when more 22350 arrive.

    How good do you think this upgrade is that Russia can just have a one ship escort for the Kuznetsov?

    And when they are on exercise with their new 40K ton helicopter carriers is one cruiser really going to cut it defending all four large ships that you keep calling targets?

    I think it is time to turn the page and remove all the Soviet hardware that is not really useful in the current context and invest the money and efforts in a new generation of smaller ships, more automated and with more effective weapons to deny navigation with impunity. in the ocean to the western colonialist powers

    Yeah.... brilliant... lets cut ties with Russia and cut cheap gas and oil and get rid of nuclear power.... wind and solar will meet all of our needs even though we have not invested nearly enough in its development yet we can obviously do without what we have been using for a decade or so while solar and wind catch up and fill the vacuum left by the reliable stuff...

    I only see a need to modernize some Udaloy's in addition to some Akula's and Oscar II's as is already being done, to cover the gap until 22350M and future Husky's arrive, while accelerating the Yasen and 22350

    The 22350M is no cruiser replacement... not even close...

    Russia is not able to compete with the Western navy. Too much Western advantage. Russia is a land power.

    That suits the west just fine... isolation and containment they call it... then you start fucking with them because they only have corvettes and frigates...

    Well the idea that they are keeping their carrier capacity means they intend to keep using surface action groups and the difference between a carrier with 20 corvettes and a carrier with 4 cruisers and 6 destroyers would be enormous in terms of performance and capacity... corvettes are designed for coastal use. Sure you can sail one around the world for visits and fitting out but they would be useless outside of Russian waters.

    Yes, Cirkon changes the game. However, it is now more suitable for defending the Russian economic zone.

    That would be MiG-31Ks and Kinzhal that does that. Zircon is designed to go with the fleet... it will be on board ships and subs of all types and will be the weapon of choice to sink enemy ships and attack difficult land targets. It will be launched from ships and subs... not aircraft... we are not talking about Russia emulating the US with 20 carrier groups to bully and invade.

    In the far ocean, to be effective, Russia must have a global satellite targeting system. Something like Legend. Currently, they have an insignificant coverage of the globe, which is enough for Russian economic zones, etc

    They are reforming their satellite industry from hand made custom models to serial production and mass production... their coverage is going to improve dramatically over the next few years.

    T-47 likes this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6952
    Points : 7044
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  ALAMO Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:54 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The INF treaty is gone... why piss around with river restricted boats carrying cruise missiles when they can just add some trucks to Iskander units to carry ground launched 5,000km cruise missiles much much cheaper.
    They are already making  ice class patrol vessels, what they lack is larger longer endurance ships that can operate with the Kuznetsov and actually contribute to air defence rather than detract from it... and what use would four more frigates be?

    Because, as I have already said several times, those river-class missile carriers are the only way to make a build-up of the Russian navy in the desired theatre of operations. Without repeating the Tsushima battle.
    Russkie Navy is a victim of Russian geography.

    T-47 dislikes this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11347
    Points : 11317
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Isos Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:03 pm

    Good ships but old systems. The power plant is also not 100% nuclear so not really attractive.

    Nakhimov showed the upgrade is too complicated and new ships can be build in same time for more or less the same money and with a reactor that can be taken from subs project to standardize its propuslion with them.

    IMO Lider project will be restarted and they will get a 180m nuclear cruiser to be serially produced in enough numbers (4?). It's way better than putting money in 1 PtG upgrades.

    T-47 dislikes this post

    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 2754
    Points : 2752
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  lancelot Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:13 pm

    Russia has had the advantage in long range naval cruise missiles for a long time. The P-500 Bazalt in service since the 1970s is a good example of this.
    The US had to develop the AEGIS family of cruisers and destroyers to attempt to defend against its capabilities.

    The Zircon is just the latest exponent of it. It is much more compact than the missiles they had in the 1980s. It is faster. And it has more range.

    The Zircon basically negates the capabilities of the US AEGIS system to be able to defend against high speed missiles by making the missiles faster than the defenses in AEGIS. The US and Japan are currently upgrading the AEGIS SM-3 missile to attempt to defend against it and Chinese anti-ship ballistic missiles.

    You can forget about the Lider. Baltic Shipyard has a busy schedule making icebreakers until 2026-2028. And that is if there are no delays and they do not start working on other projects like the floating nuclear power plants. I think you can forget seeing a Lider in service this decade.

    Project 22350M is basically a replacement for the Sovremenny destroyer and probably the Udaloy destroyer. But much more capable than either of those ships. With offensive and defensive capabilities similar or better than the older cruisers.


    Last edited by lancelot on Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Mir and Broski like this post

    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 2852
    Points : 2844
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Arrow Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:30 pm

    The Zircon basically negates the capabilities of the US AEGIS system to be able to defend against high speed missiles by making the missiles faster than the defenses in AEGIS. wrote:

    The most interesting is the Circon propulsion. Is it a breakthrough and a scramjet engine. Or some modern solid/liquid rocket engine. It remains a mystery all the time.
    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 2754
    Points : 2752
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  lancelot Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:34 pm

    Arrow wrote:The most interesting is the Circon propulsion. Is it a breakthrough and a scramjet engine. Or some modern solid/liquid rocket engine. It remains a mystery all the time.
    First operational scramjet engine. Probably uses some unknown high energy fuel which no one else is using. How else can you explain that it can travel at 3x the speed of the Oniks and has almost 2x the range with same dimensions. This is revolutionary propulsion technology.

    Mir and Broski like this post

    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 2852
    Points : 2844
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Arrow Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:40 pm

    http://forums.airbase.ru/2022/07/t114121_15--tsirkon.html

    Here there were considerations that it could has rocket propulsion, except of course the first stage, which is rocket. Thanks to the appropriate aeroballistic trajectory, it could achieve these parameters for a rocket engine with a very efficient solid/liquid propellant?
    The P-800 does not fly high in aeroballistic flight.
    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 2754
    Points : 2752
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  lancelot Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:51 pm

    Arrow wrote:Here there were considerations that it could has rocket propulsion, except of course the first stage, which is rocket. Thanks to the appropriate aeroballistic trajectory, it could achieve these parameters for a rocket engine with a very efficient solid/liquid propellant?
    The P-800 does not fly high in aeroballistic flight.
    That is plain bullshit. To have that kind of range with similar dimensions and weight to Onyx you can be 100% certain the missile does not carry its own oxidizer. It is an air-breathing missile. If it is a rocket, it is an air-augmented rocket not a regular one, i.e. technology no one else has. Closest thing would be something like the European Meteor air to air missile. The Meteor uses special boron doped fuel which the Germans spent over two decades developing since 1980s. But that is a much slower and smaller ramjet missile.

    They would not use a solid rocket in what is effectively a maneuvering cruise missile in the first place.

    Begome, Mir and Broski like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9174
    Points : 9236
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  flamming_python Sun Jul 16, 2023 2:47 pm

    Wouldn't rule out misinformation either.

    If they are planning to modernize it, it would take quite a while for that to become apparent, let NATO think in the interim that this ship is on the way out. No?

    Rodion_Romanovic, T-47 and Mir like this post

    avatar
    T-47


    Posts : 266
    Points : 264
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  T-47 Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:17 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Wouldn't rule out misinformation either.

    TASS reported the same few months ago as well. Navy denied it as BS back then.

    Big_Gazza and Mir like this post


    Sponsored content


    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread: - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:10 am