Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6419
    Points : 6556
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  kvs on Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:48 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    GarryB wrote:If they are so upset about Russia testing weapons in space why don't they sign the space weapon test ban treaty?

    Because US thinks it can win and spam is to provide thinking frame for the masses that would to the counter by Russia&China "why dont you sign the the space weapon test ban

    treaty" produce result to them in the form of "obvious argument" - "because evil cheats" !

    That is why Pompeo tounts "we are fundamentally force of good"

    So now US administration gets a free pass in being offensive to China in its try to submit it and if they fail they will hide behind the people by means "evil are after us - all ("freedom

    fighters or so"Smile unite" )

    China on the other hand like a man passing peacefully throughout the street minding its own business who suddenly gets stuck by for God knows what reason emotional attachment

    of the nearby lunatic now in awe watches idiocracy while by thinking trying to figure out how far can this situation evolve and why on Earth me Smile






    The problem with exceptionalist maggots like the yanquis is that they are doomed to failure just like the Nazis.   The Nazi leadership
    starting with Hitler assumed that the "rotten facade called the USSR" would collapse under the blitzkrieg.   But Soviets and Russians
    were not the untermenschen that they believed.   The yanquis clearly think this way from all their bleating including the recent
    BS about Burevestnik being an "expensive and horrible Chernobyl-like failure.  

    This syndrome has deep roots in the USA.   Eugenics was a US refinement of intolerance in an exceptionalist superiority bubble.  
    Eugenics influenced the Nazis in a big way.   Really, the USA was the patron "saint" of the Nazis.   This patron built up their
    war machine during the 1930s.   The whole "America won WWII" BS is for morons.   The USA moved in only in the last 11 months
    of the war to prevent the USSR from rolling all the way to the Atlantic and English Channel.   They only opened a second front
    when the Nazis were in full collapse.

    Big_Gazza likes this post

    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 1597
    Points : 1593
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  LMFS on Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:41 am

    Actually the anglo-saxon world is the true root and home of nazism. With the end of 500 years of Western supremacy, the circle is finally closing and the true nazis (as a shorter name for the racist predatory supremacists their dominant classes have always been) will reveal themselves to the world in full glory before being finished... the difference to previous wars being that this time over they will not get someone else doing the heavy lifting for them. Pompeo is already calling for a new League of the Righteous to unite against China, but until now the only ones are US + Common Wealth. It is going to be them against pretty much the rest of the world, but the idiots still think they can pull it off...

    Big_Gazza and kvs like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2008
    Points : 2010
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:30 am

    Rogozin said that Russia and China intend to explore the moon together

    The head of Roscosmos noted that he also agreed with the head of the Chinese National Space Administration Zhang Kejian on the joint construction of a scientific base on a natural satellite of the Earth.

    MOSCOW, July 23. / TASS /. Russia will conduct the exploration of the moon and the construction of a scientific base on a natural satellite of the Earth, most likely together with China. This was announced by Dmitry Rogozin, General Director of Roscosmos.

    "Recently, we [the head of the Chinese National Space Administration Zhang Kejian] and I agreed that we will most likely do the exploration of the moon and the construction of a lunar scientific base together - Russia and China," Rogozin said on the YouTube channel Soloviev LIVE . ...

    The head of Roscosmos also stressed that he respects the Chinese colleagues very much. "Our Chinese colleagues have already had several accidents this year, but they certainly do not grab their hearts, and there their sofa experts do not start screaming about the end of Chinese astronautics. They continue to work, continue to test their character, bend their line," - said Rogozin.

    Earlier Rogozin said that he had discussed cooperation in space with Chinese partners, including on the lunar scientific base. According to him, then the parties agreed to begin steps towards each other to determine the contours and significance of the lunar scientific base.

    https://tass.ru/kosmos/9040463

    GarryB likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25357
    Points : 25903
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:18 am

    That is why Pompeo tounts "we are fundamentally force of good"

    He is right, but he is not clear... the full truthful statement is:

    "we are fundamentally a force of our own and nobody elses good... even allies that help us achieve our goals can become the enemy in the next conflict we decide to wage for the good of our rich and powerful citizens we serve"


    The problem with exceptionalist maggots like the yanquis is that they are doomed to failure just like the Nazis.

    Honestly that does not sound like a problem at all...

    Pompeo is already calling for a new League of the Righteous to unite against China, but until now the only ones are US + Common Wealth. It is going to be them against pretty much the rest of the world, but the idiots still think they can pull it off...
    kvs
    on 25/07/20, 01:48 am

    I think some English people might believe they will have their empire to fall back on now that the EU are going to snub them like an jilted ex girlfriend, but I suspect they are in for a bit of a shock... I think a lot of New Zealanders are sick of getting dragged in to Europes wars... and I think if Blow Job thinks he can get trade deals with the former colonies at the same terms they used to have (ie very one way like the ones they had and have with the third world they have another think coming... we learned the hard way that we have to fend for ourselves and that big countries are nice but not really very reliable when it comes to our interests... and I suspect Africa will not want to be dictated to by the UK either let alone Canada and India...

    Rogozin said that Russia and China intend to explore the moon together

    Cooperation instead of competition and sabotage... what sort of future are they trying to create.... Smile
    thegopnik
    thegopnik

    Posts : 124
    Points : 130
    Join date : 2017-09-20

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  thegopnik on Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:38 pm

    I was searching for Russian military radar satellites that observe oceans and only got RORSAT. What's their modern equivalent of RORSAT if anyone knows? I know that HARMONY and Konteyner can be used to monitor ships.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 5988
    Points : 6139
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:55 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    GarryB wrote:If they are so upset about Russia testing weapons in space why don't they sign the space weapon test ban treaty?

    Because US thinks it can win and spam is to provide thinking frame for the masses that would to the counter by Russia&China "why dont you sign the the space weapon test ban

    treaty" produce result to them in the form of "obvious argument" - "because evil cheats" !

    That is why Pompeo tounts "we are fundamentally force of good"

    So now US administration gets a free pass in being offensive to China in its try to submit it and if they fail they will hide behind the people by means "evil are after us - all ("freedom

    fighters or so"Smile unite" )

    China on the other hand like a man passing peacefully throughout the street minding its own business who suddenly gets stuck by for God knows what reason emotional attachment

    of the nearby lunatic now in awe watches idiocracy while by thinking trying to figure out how far can this situation evolve and why on Earth me Smile

    They don't wan't multilateral treaties, they want subservience. Uncle Sham is transforming in to Uncle Diaper-Rash!

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Ed2e630WsAAleKh?format=jpg&name=small

    US Diplomat REJECTS Russian,Chinese Space Arms Control Initiative

    Russian & Chinese initiatives to conclude an inter. arms treaty on weapons in space are "BAD IDEAS," - US Assistant Secretary for Inter. Security & Nonproliferation Christopher Ford

    https://tass.com/defense/1182363

    Big_Gazza likes this post

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6419
    Points : 6556
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  kvs on Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:32 pm

    The yanquis are cheating losers. They think that no holds barred conflict gives them an edge. That is because they never
    had to fight a real war. Both the war with Japan and the phony war with Germany during WWII were not real wars for the
    US. No frontlines were rolling over the US heartland. The US was the biggest sponsor of the Nazis during the 1930s and was
    clearly lubricating their war on the USSR with the assistance of the UK and the idiot French. The war with Japan was not
    all that. The scale of military resources sunk into Pacific war was tiny compared to anything that transpired in Europe.
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war on the cheap. The US did not have to fight any serious ground war with Japan and some
    islands here and there don't mean squat in the grander context.

    As for the civil war. That is the closest the US has come to one but that was ancient history when the mass murder of civilians
    was not the norm. The ratio of dead civilians to dead soldiers went for 1:5 during the Napoleonic wars to 2:1 during WWII.
    But the US never suffered two civilian deaths for each soldier it lost. Its WWII combat was fully offshored. In fact, WWII
    was a huge boost for the US GDP and during this war it more than doubled. Basically, the USA became a superpower thanks
    to WWII. This has resulted in the US developing a systemic delusion that it can 1) win and 2) profit from big wars. This is
    the main threat to world peace today. Since it is systemic, it is hard to weed out and it will take a war where US losses are
    substantial to knock it off its pedestal. But US exceptionalism is one of the pillars of this delusion and that is the core of the
    US psyche.

    Big_Gazza and LMFS like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2008
    Points : 2010
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:45 am

    This is all part of the reason why the upcoming US collapse will be utterly fucking MONUMENTAL in scope. It will make the collapse of the USSR look like a business cycle downturn Laughing

    owais.usmani likes this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2008
    Points : 2010
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:00 pm

    Proton launches Express-80 & 103   Very Happy



    Update: Satellites successfully seperated from Briz u/s. Gratz on a successful mission thumbsup

    source

    On Friday, July 31, 2020, at 18:24 Moscow time, the Express-80 spacecraft separated from the Briz-M upper stage in the target orbit, a little later, at 18:41 Moscow time - Express-103

    GarryB and dino00 like this post

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6419
    Points : 6556
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:38 pm

    So the Space X astronauts managed to get back to Earth in one piece. It is good that they did not become victims. But where
    is all the progress? They returned back to Earth like US astronauts in the 1960s by parachuting into the ocean. No sci-fi
    landing for them.

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2008
    Points : 2010
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:04 pm

    kvs wrote:So the Space X astronauts managed to get back to Earth in one piece.   It is good that they did not become victims.   But where
    is all the progress?   They returned back to Earth like US astronauts in the 1960s by parachuting into the ocean.    No sci-fi
    landing for them.


    Yup, they didn't even return to land but had to get wet in salt-water... maybe that's why manned Dragon isn't re-useable.

    I'm so less than impressed in the Muricanz re-inventing a tech they had developed over 50 years ago. It's rather pathetic actually Laughing

    kvs and miketheterrible like this post

    thegopnik
    thegopnik

    Posts : 124
    Points : 130
    Join date : 2017-09-20

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  thegopnik on Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:48 am

    https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/332509-russia-to-create-satellite-refuelers

    "New probes will be able to recharge satellite batteries with a laser beam, thus increasing their operating time in orbit.
    In late May 2020, R&D engineers at the Russian Ministry of Defense began work on a project to remotely recharge orbiting satellites.

    Space laser
    The development is in the hands of a research group at the rocket and space corporation RKK Energia. The concept involves​ replenishing satellite batteries remotely by means of an electromagnetic gun, that is, a laser.

    As reported by RKK Energia, a group of refueling satellites will be launched into near space, where they will retransmit energy received from Earth-based stations, or generate energy themselves via solar panels. What's more, the accumulated energy from the "refuelers" will be relayed to other satellites by laser beam.

    “These future satellites look like flying saucers. The onboard module contains a control system, batteries and a pulse charger based on a supercapacitor — a device that acts as an intermediate link between batteries and capacitors,” military analyst Dmitry Safonov told Russia Beyond.

    At the same time, he stressed that the "refuelers" would not be a kind of perpetual motion machine for satellites in orbit. “They will extend the life of space vehicles, especially during orbital eclipse periods, but will have no effect on component wear and degradation,” added the expert."

    dino00 likes this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2008
    Points : 2010
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:05 am

    Interview with Rogozin:  source   Interesting bits in red.  

    Dmitry Rogozin: we have a strategic vision of the development of cosmonautics

    Roscosmos is preparing to conquer the moon. The development of a unified space program of the country until 2030 is nearing completion, one of the emphasis of which will be made on the study of a natural satellite of the Earth using automatic space stations and preparation for a manned lunar mission. When this program will be approved, what other scientific tasks does the state corporation set for itself, what space technology will be needed for this and with whom Russia will cooperate in conquering the moon, in an interview with the special correspondent of RIA Novosti Dmitry Strugovets said the general director of the state corporation for space activities Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin .

    DS - Among your plans, voiced back in 2018, was the unification of all federal programs related to space into a single and interconnected space program of Russia. Until now, the Federal Space Program, the "GLONASS" Federal Target Program, and the "Russian Cosmodromes" Federal Target Program have been adopted in different years and for different periods of time, which created problems in the interconnection of the activities being implemented. What is the current state of the development of a unified program? When will it be submitted to the government, what funds will it require?


    DR - What we are talking about now is really a whole host of different programs that were adopted at different times - Federal Target Program " GLONASS", Federal Target Program" Cosmodromes of Russia ", issues related to the defense industry development program. We also work within the framework of the state armaments program, which is adopted for 10 years with adjustments every five years. When I came to the government in early 2012, my main task as head of the Military-industrial Commission under the government, which then turned into a board of MIC, was the preparation of the state program of armaments for 2011-2020 and defense industry development programs. Based on his personal experience of a gigantic system of control, coming to Roscosmos, I thought it right to combine the disparate programs in the space sphere and make them according to the principle of the state armaments program - so that the planning period was at least 10 years, but every five years the program was adjusted, and continuity was observed. So that there is no situation like we have now, when no one sees the horizon beyond 2025, when the current Federal Space Program ends.

    The President supported my approach in principle. Then the routine work began with our ministries and departments to make comments. The last months have been spent on negotiating disputes with the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Economic Development. As a result, what do we have now? This month we are submitting the most important remaining sections of the program for approval to the government. The unified state program of space activities of Russia should be submitted to the government in its entirety by the end of this year, in order to have confirmed funding from 2021. The single program will include the Federal Target Program "GLONASS", a subprogram for the development of a super-heavy rocket and space complex, a program for creating a multi-satellite orbital group "Sphere", sections related to the creation of ground space infrastructure at the Vostochny cosmodrome, investment projects,

    If we talk about the required amount of funding, then only the president can name the final figure. He, having strategic information about the capabilities of the state, must approve the amount of funding. It is not a fact that this figure will be final. I remember how in December 2015 the parameters of the Federal Space Program for 2016-2025 were discussed and at a meeting with the President in Sochi its ceiling was determined - 1 trillion 406 billion rubles. Let me emphasize that this is two times less than Roscosmos requested then. But in the end, this amount of funds was also cut. We are asked: "Where are our scientific vehicles, Mars, Venus, the lunar program?" Here they are all there, in these "optimizations", their history of debates with the Ministry of Finance broke them. I suppose that this time too we will have a difficult conversation with the Ministry of Finance.

    DS - Last week it became known that the Ministry of Finance is proposing to cut spending on space by 60 billion rubles. How serious will it be to the Russian space program?


    DR - I believe that now in no case should the funding of the Federal Space Program be cut. Moreover, we insist that we return the funds that were cut earlier, these are hundreds of billions. How to work in such conditions, I don't really understand. Yes, we are aware that the proposed reduction should affect not only the space program, but I believe that there are things that simply cannot be touched. Most of the activities that we implement are long-term. The contracts have already been signed. How to reduce, what to refuse? You cannot reduce existing projects. It will just stop them. Refuse to create new technology? Let them tell us what we don't need. Moon research is not needed? Let them say. Don't need to monitor space debris? Let them talk about it. Someone is so brave who will sign such a document? I would not like to dramatize for now, but we are preparing for this conversation. We have argumentation, we have a formulated position. We see that the leading foreign space agencies are increasing their budgets. This is despite the fact that they already have more funding than ours. There should be some comparable figures. Let our budget be three to four times less than that of partners, but not 20 times. It's just not serious. but not 20 times the same. It's just not serious. but not 20 times the same. It's just not serious.

    DS - Usually, scientific programs suffer first of all during sequestration. What new scientific tasks are spelled out in the space program until 2030?

    DR - We have several projects that we consider important to implement within this period. Firstly, launches of automatic spacecraft to the Moon should become annual, so that we can work out all the technologies associated with landing on the lunar surface and receive safety guarantees during a manned flight to the Moon. If we complete the launches of unmanned stations in 2025, what guarantees will we have that we will be able to ensure a regular landing of the crew in 2030?

    Second, we believe that we need to return to the Venus exploration program. It has always been a "Russian planet"; only Soviet vehicles landed on it. I think Venus is more interesting than Mars. By and large, the heat effect that, according to an extremely dangerous scenario, played out on Venus, led to what is happening there now. If we do not study the processes occurring on Venus, then we do not have an understanding of how to prevent such a scenario for the development of events on our planet. Exploration of Venus is a very interesting task, but very difficult, because there is colossal atmospheric pressure, a toxic composition of the atmosphere, constant storms, and extremely high temperatures. To land on Venus, you need to create a super apparatus with heat-resistant equipment. Nevertheless, we have a similar experience. Now specialists from NPO Lavochkin have raised the documentation of Soviet studies and are studying them. But I think that it would be interesting not only to land a spacecraft on Venus, but also to return the soil to Earth. This would truly be a breakthrough in basic space science. We know how to do this. I have already been informed about the decisions of the engineering and design plan in this regard. Whether this will be done within the framework of the next mission "Venus-D" or another mission is another question. Whether together with the Americans or independently is up to discussion. I prefer myself. I have already been informed about the decisions of the engineering and design plan in this regard. Whether this will be done within the framework of the next mission "Venus-D" or another mission is another question. Whether together with the Americans or independently is up to discussion. I prefer myself. I have already been informed about the decisions of the engineering and design plan in this regard. Whether this will be done within the framework of the next mission "Venus-D" or another mission is another question. Whether together with the Americans or independently is up to discussion. I prefer myself.

    Working with partners is two-faced - it's like a coin. On the one hand, it seems that we are gaining new competencies, but on the other, as the experience of ExoMars shows, we are falling out of schedule. After all, everything was going well according to the Russian-European project ExoMars. Yes, we had a very narrow corridor in terms of reserve time, but it completely burned out with this pandemic. A plant in Turin has been quarantined. Neither our specialists could go there, nor the Italians themselves and other Europeans could go there to finish the work. And the "launch window" collapsed, and the next "train to Mars" leaves only two years later - in September 2022. To be honest, I am simply offended, because we had everything ready, we did all the work. The rocket is there, the Kazachok landing module is fully developed, all the technical issues that were associated with it, resolved. We were fully prepared to launch the lander to Mars. If we had prepared the mission ourselves, I have no doubt that we would have flown. We need to understand and respect the problems of partners. As a result, we now have what we have - we are preparing for launch in 2022. But national projects, such as the US and Chinese Martian missions and even the Emirati spacecraft that flew from Japan, were much less vulnerable, because they were not associated with complex international cooperation. I am a supporter of self-reliance. In this case, you yourself answer with your head and your own resources. I see that we have returned to the level where we can independently implement interplanetary programs. There are no longer such problems in rocket and space technology as two years ago. We were fully prepared to launch the lander to Mars. If we had prepared the mission ourselves, I have no doubt that we would have flown. We need to understand and respect the problems of partners.

    The third scientific project is the protection of the Earth from the asteroid-cometary hazard. One of the tasks is to track dangerous celestial bodies. There is a task - to learn how to land an apparatus on an asteroid, and not a simple spacecraft, but to land a spacecraft. The tricky part is how to grab onto an asteroid. Nevertheless, this task is clear to our engineers, and enterprises are beginning to carry out such work on an initiative basis. We know how to implement it. It is quite possible to create such a technology by 2030.

    The fourth project is the launch of the Spectrum-UV space telescope to look at the starry sky in the ultraviolet spectrum. Thus, we will get the first place in the world in terms of viewing the Universe in different wavelengths. The Spektr-R telescope has long been out of order, and the colossal amount of information transmitted by it to Earth has not yet been fully processed by our scientists. Now "Spectr-RG" provides information, as they say, for several Nobel Prizes. With the launch of Spectra-UV, we will carry out a complete survey of the starry sky, gain an understanding of the distance to the stars, which is necessary for the orientation of spacecraft and ships using star sensors when flying in deep space. I'm not talking about the very fact of exploring the Universe.

    It is also worth mentioning the Spektr-M space telescope with a giant folding antenna. He must carry out research in the millimeter range. We are also ready to start working on it, but there is no necessary funding.

    That is, if we talk about scientific space, we have the opportunity to maintain leadership positions in this area, but funding is needed.

    DS - Tell us about the manned lunar program, what does it involve?


    DR - We have several scenarios. If we talk about a certain starting minimum, then we are talking about the creation of a super-heavy rocket, which should launch the Oryol spacecraft to the Moon, about the spacecraft itself and the necessary ground infrastructure. But in order to land on the moon, you also need a lunar takeoff and landing module. It has not yet been created. Now we are in dispute with the Ministry of Finance whether to include the development of a lander in the program or not. I have suspicions that if it is not included in the program now, then it will not exist at all. In this case, we will not be able to land on the moon. Of course, we will defend the lunar lander project, otherwise our lunar program cannot be considered complete. The last word is for the president.

    International cooperation will help reduce costs. We need to come to an understanding with our partners, with the same Chinese colleagues with whom we have very good relations, that it is necessary to build on the Moon, what scientific equipment is necessary to have on its surface. We hope to begin consultations with our Chinese colleagues in the fall. I am going to either fly to China myself, or my Chinese colleague, the head of the Chinese National Space Administration, will come to Russia. We are ready to determine the contours and tasks of the lunar scientific base, and it pulls behind a huge amount of technologies to be mastered and implemented.

    DS - Quite often you can hear the opinion that the collapse of the USSR was facilitated by the high cost of the Energia-Buran project. You can argue with that. But won't the lunar program become the cause of economic problems for Russia? It's still an expensive project. The United States at one time abandoned the lunar program, because even their budget could not afford such costs.

    DR - The Russian contribution to the lunar project will be reasonable and not undermine the economy. In order to further reduce the financial burden, we are saying that the program should still be international. The American projects of landing on the moon Artemis and the creation of a lunar station Gateway are clearly American programs, where other participants play a secondary role. It is very strange. This is reminiscent of NATO, where American troops in Europe are fed at the expense of European countries. This is not at all what is laid down in the format of international cooperation on the International Space Station. Now the Artemis and Gateway programs are not international at all, which, of course, we cannot accept. In this regard, our negotiations with China are aimed at creating an equal program with the ability to connect other partners. We talked with China, that the USA, if it wishes, can enter our program as an equal partner. Here we need to talk about the Russian-Chinese project not as a get-together, but as a return to the practice of full-fledged cooperation in space.

    As for the Energia-Buran program, it ended not because the country could not finance this project. The problem was different. It turned out that after the automatic flight of the Buran, no one could figure out how to use this machine further. The problem here was the lack of long-term system planning and strategic vision under Gorbachev's rule. There was no understanding of the second step, the third step. But what we are offering today is a completely different approach. The very engineering configuration of a super-heavy rocket consists of modular structures: the first and second stages are a bundle of modules of several Soyuz-5 missiles, the central unit is a Soyuz-6 missile. We have offered an option that will not cost that colossal money, but will cost the country incomparably cheaper than "

    Of course, there are other options for delivering everything you need to the moon. For example, launching cargo into orbit with cheaper rockets, the same " Angara ". Three or four launches of "Angara", and assembly in low orbit of a flight complex from several upper stages and a spacecraft. We will definitely find options that will make it significantly cheaper to organize programs for exploring the Moon and Mars. I don't think the lunar program will undermine the country's economy. This is speculation, nothing more.

    Every time I come to Baikonur, from the headquarters window I see three launch complexes for a super-heavy rocket - cyclopean structures. They were used only six times to launch the N-1 and Energia missiles. This is a lesson in how not to behave. We will not be so. We will make a truly reusable system that the country needs. A super-heavy rocket is needed not only for flights to the moon, it is necessary for launching large-sized heavy space structures into near space. It will be able to launch more than 20 tons of payload into deep space, and from 100 to 140 tons into near space. What, nobody needs it? Doesn't our economy need? There will certainly be a need for such a powerful space tug. With the creation of such a rocket in 2028, Russia will have an entire line of carriers from ultra-light to super-heavy classes. And all this will be able to take off from the national territory, regardless of any international conjuncture. In 2023 we plan to launch the Soyuz-5 rocket, in 2025 - Soyuz-6 from the same launch complex, be it Sea Launch or Baiterek. By this time, the tests of the Angara in the current version will be completed, and we will proceed to the completion of the tests of the Angara in a more advanced class, capable of launching a 27-ton cargo into low-earth orbit. Work has already begun on the creation of a hydrogen "Angara", which we plan to create in 2025. It will be possible to launch 37 tons into low orbit. That is, from 2023 to 2028 we will consistently commission new missiles. This five-year period will be decisive for our industry.

    DS - If funding has already been provided for Soyuz-5 and the Angara family, how will Soyuz-6 and Soyuz-LNG using methane be financed? Where will you get the money for these missiles?

    DR - The Soyuz-2 rocket currently in operation is an excellent rocket that has proven itself, but nevertheless how long will it fly? We are making a methane-fueled rocket to replace the Soyuz-2. It will initially be created as a reusable rocket and space complex. Not semi-reusable like SpaceX, but reusable. Let me explain what this means. The number of use of the first stage will be no less than 100 flights with three starts of the main engine in each - on the rise, when braking in the upper atmosphere and on a soft landing. It will be a 21st century rocket. We are, of course, spying on what our American colleagues are doing, but our engineers are trying to "cut the corner" - not to repeat what the SpaceX colleagues are doing, but to surpass them. We expect that financing the initial stages of the development of the Soyuz-LNG rocket will be conducted from extrabudgetary sources. In fact, this project opens the door to the use of liquefied natural gas in the rocket and space industry.

    As for Soyuz-6, we will look for money for the missile from our reserves. You won't need much. The rocket body will be the same as that of the Soyuz-5 rocket, the RD-180 engine is mass-produced in our country, it only needs to be slightly modernized, the launch complex is suitable for Soyuz-5. Moreover, we are de facto creating Soyuz-6 as the central block of a super-heavy rocket. In this regard, I proposed to do so that all elements of a super-heavy rocket could be transformed into independent missiles with a "light motion of an engineering hand". Since the second stage of the Soyuz-6 rocket is the third stage of the Soyuz-2 rocket, we immediately receive technical redundancy in the form of the Soyuz-6 rocket in case the Soyuz-2 launches are suspended.
    The transition to a new family of launch vehicles has been rationally calculated. There is only one intersection - in the class of ultralight and light carriers due to conversion missiles taken off alert, but they are almost free, it’s a sin not to launch. This is called start-up disposal. Do not cut them, do not blow them up? Using conversion rockets, we are able to offer the market a unique ultra-competitive launch price.

    DS - Russia is creating two lines of missiles - "Soyuz" and "Angara", but at the same time it is known about the American sanctions, which will begin to operate against Russian carriers from 2023. How do we work on the international market in these conditions? Why do we need so many missiles, given that they will have a certain ceiling on orders on the commercial market?

    DR - We have carefully studied the decisions of the United States on sanctions against our missiles, although not all countries that cooperate with Roscosmos are so dependent on the United States, there are also states that generally do not see America at close range. Honestly, we are not flattering ourselves, we have marketers who research the market, show the number of launches where we can fight and win, despite the sanctions. But you need to understand that the commercial launch market does not provide the funding that you need to focus on. We focus on the satisfaction of launch services domestically. The orbital group that we have does not suit us quantitatively. It needs to be increased. The deployment of the multifunctional group "Sphere" will help us in this. The program will give domestic enterprises a large order for the serial production of satellites. We know how to create individual or small-scale devices, and here we will talk about tens and hundreds of satellites for various purposes. We will manufacture them as Starlink and OneWeb.

    DS - Recently the American ship Crew Dragon made a successful landing, completing the first test manned flight. What are your impressions of this flight? How will it affect our program?

    DR - The fact that Crew Dragon appeared, and that it passed the test, if we discard all the propaganda American husk, that they are leaders in the world ... Why are they leaders in the world at all? They were not on the horizon for 10 years, but now they fly like we did. Let them now fly as fast as we fly. I don't think Crew Dragon is capable of flying three hours before the ISS.

    We all know about this ship, we know its limitations and shortcomings, which manifested themselves during its landing and removal of the crew. He has a fairly rough fit. It is not intended to land on land, which is why our American colleagues chose to land on water, as they landed 45 years ago. Landing on water is not comme il faut. In this case, the landing depends on the state of the ocean - its waves, wind, and the capabilities of the rescue ships. For our new ship "Eagle" we also consider landing on water as an option, but this is more of an emergency landing, and the regular landing will be on land. We are making a spaceship of a completely different class - much more complex and functional, so that it can fly into deep space. The analogue of our ship is the American Orion, but not SpaceX's Crew Dragon or Boeing's Starliner. They are analogues of the "Union" more spacious, comfortable. This is a step forward, but do we need to create such a ship? Of course not. We don't need such a ship.

    If we do replace the Soyuz MS for servicing orbital stations, because the operation of the Eagle will be expensive for these purposes, we need to make a reusable spacecraft of a completely different configuration - something like the Buran with the ability to land on takeoff and landing stripes. I set this task to our engineers. The Energia Corporation and other teams will now offer such options for space technology. "Soyuz MS", of course, will still serve. It is constantly being upgraded. But endless modernization is destructive for the development of space technology. The light bulb did not come from the modernization of the candles. but do we need to create such a ship? Of course not. We don't need such a ship.

    The next step will be the creation of a new reusable spacecraft for the development and operation of low orbits. And for deep space - the ship "Eagle". Work on it is actively going on, unlike in previous years, I see it. I am glad that we have managed to get off the ground with fundamental problems - the multifunctional laboratory module "Science" is being prepared for launch, and flight tests of the "Angara" are being prepared to resume. All long-term construction projects are coming to an end. The main thing is that we are not "shot down on takeoff" through budgetary restrictions, this is what I am most afraid of.


    Hmm..  Long term plans seem to involve retiring the Soyuz transport with a reincarnation of the Clipper concept?  Excellent idea, and infinitely better than short-sighted US developments with ballistic capsules to service LEO (and thereby are only re-creating old retired capabilities rather than looking forward). Well... Sierra Nevadas BOR-4 copy called DreamChaser is in the right direction but doesn't have a large enough PAX.

    I like this plan.  It's long term, goal-oriented, practical, reinforces Russian domestic space capabilities, guarantees access to space, and won't break the bank. I don't however expect the Russophobes and Rogozin-haters to understand, cuz that's what happens when low-brows from the far ends of the bell-curve get to set the tone of popular discourse...   Laughing

    dino00 and kvs like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9260
    Points : 9342
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:09 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:Interview with Rogozin: source Interesting bits in red.


    Wishful thinking and bullshit promises in red

    And as always it's 5 years away, close enough to give suckers hope and to look reasonable on paper but far enough to be forgotten and to make way for next set of bullshit promises

    In the meantime their best retards experts are working hard on brilliant excuses for when they get called out on their bullshit, as always American spies will be blamed this time they will be teleported from the moon with a power drill to sabotage glorious Russian space program that is as always just days away from dominating competition (several decades in a row, any day now, it's​ happening you guys!)

    As always stupidity and incompetence of retard in charge will be ignored and fanboys will be eating his shit up like it's Italian ice cream russia


    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25357
    Points : 25903
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:21 am

    Russian & Chinese initiatives to conclude an inter. arms treaty on weapons in space are "BAD IDEAS," - US Assistant Secretary for Inter. Security & Nonproliferation Christopher Ford

    They should announce space weapon programmes and outline their parameters... then lets see the US say an international arms treaty on weapons in space is a bad idea...
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6419
    Points : 6556
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  kvs on Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Russian & Chinese initiatives to conclude an inter. arms treaty on weapons in space are "BAD IDEAS," - US Assistant Secretary for Inter. Security & Nonproliferation Christopher Ford

    They should announce space weapon programmes and outline their parameters... then lets see the US say an international arms treaty on weapons in space is a bad idea...

    As usual yanquis spew self serving pap and expect everyone to lap it up. They are really in for a rude awaking in the current era.
    They simply have no advantage over Russia in terms of technology and the ability to both develop and deploy new weapons systems.
    They also do not have a corrupt Soviet regime in power which is lubricating the way for a capitalist coup and is pleasing its new
    besties. There is no Gorbachov in office to sign treaties that sell Russia down the river.

    So let these hubris-filled morons try to get an advantage by shredding international agreements. They are currently spazzing about
    Russian satellite drones violating the virginity of the spy satellites and act like Russia has no means to resist US will. That is some
    grade A schizophrenia.

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25357
    Points : 25903
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:22 am

    Wishful thinking and bullshit promises in red

    And as always it's 5 years away, close enough to give suckers hope and to look reasonable on paper but far enough to be forgotten and to make way for next set of bullshit promises

    In the meantime their best retards experts are working hard on brilliant excuses for when they get called out on their bullshit, as always American spies will be blamed this time they will be teleported from the moon with a power drill to sabotage glorious Russian space program that is as always just days away from dominating competition (several decades in a row, any day now, it's​ happening you guys!)

    As always stupidity and incompetence of retard in charge will be ignored and fanboys will be eating his shit up like it's Italian ice cream

    Zero points for consistency dude... weren't you constantly complaining that they don't do anything and they lack vision and are still using Soviet stuff and riding on the coat tails of yesterday and that they haven't done anything new.

    Now they say they are going to do lots of new things, and you blow it off as just promises.

    The stupidity and incompetence of the guy running the show is all in your head... take a deep breath... wish them all the best (you do want them to succeed don't you?) and give them the time they specify to either succeed or fail.

    Jumping up and down now and saying they are going to fail just makes you look like a critic... and not a useful one... a Pavel Felgenhauer one...

    Cyberspec and Big_Gazza like this post

    PhSt
    PhSt

    Posts : 220
    Points : 226
    Join date : 2019-04-02

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  PhSt on Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:44 am

    In 2023 we plan to launch the Soyuz-5 rocket, in 2025 - Soyuz-6 from the same launch complex, be it Sea Launch or Baiterek.

    Why are they obsessed with launching rockets from Baikonur? Why cant they just focus on completing all the necessary infrastructures needed to launch heavy rockets in Vostochny which is inside Russia's territory?
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6419
    Points : 6556
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:53 am

    PhSt wrote:
    In 2023 we plan to launch the Soyuz-5 rocket, in 2025 - Soyuz-6 from the same launch complex, be it Sea Launch or Baiterek.

    Why are they obsessed with launching rockets from Baikonur? Why cant they just focus on completing all the necessary infrastructures needed to launch heavy rockets in Vostochny which is inside Russia's territory?  

    1) It is cheaper

    2) It is faster

    Building up of facilities at Vostochny is ongoing and takes a long time for obvious reason. It is years of work just to reshape the
    landscape. Watch how long it takes to put up a new office or apartment block. The time spent on digging the hole is like
    half the total construction time even if the volume of the building above ground is substantially larger. Don't assume that
    building space ports is some sort of fast and easy process. And no, this has nothing to do with corruption.

    Big_Gazza likes this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2008
    Points : 2010
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:36 am

    PhSt wrote:
    In 2023 we plan to launch the Soyuz-5 rocket, in 2025 - Soyuz-6 from the same launch complex, be it Sea Launch or Baiterek.

    Why are they obsessed with launching rockets from Baikonur? Why cant they just focus on completing all the necessary infrastructures needed to launch heavy rockets in Vostochny which is inside Russia's territory?  

    Baikonour has a Zenit pad that can be readily converted for Soyuz-5.  ie cheap, quick, and makes the Kazakhs happy (always important to keep neighbours content and demonstrate the value of good relations).

    Long term will be for Soyuz-5 to use a new pad at Vostochny (which will be stated once the Angara pad  is complete) which will also serve for Yenisei & Don SHLVs.

    Their plan makes sense IMHO.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 6419
    Points : 6556
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:22 am



    The above video discusses Rogozin's plan to update the 1960s crew module with a reusable shuttle. Rogozin
    has a poor way of phrasing things but he is actually giving out the right information. It looks like the Soyuz-MS
    will be replaced by a species of the Hermes (not Buran):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_(spacecraft)



    Instead of riding piggy back on an HLV the small crew type shuttle will ride on top of a smaller rocket (the rocket
    shown in the video for the Hermes was rather overkill suggesting the Hermes was too big for its role).

    The benefit of a shuttle assuming it is done right is that it can return to the surface as a glider instead of parachuting
    into the water or with small retro-rockets onto land. It is a non-ballistic solution that reduces the speed without praying
    that the parachutes don't fail. Although that has never happened to any manned mission that I am aware of.
    The shuttle concept is also reusable compared to Soyuz-MS. The rocket itself is not reusable.

    I think this concept is a good idea. It introduces tech advances beyond the 1960s and may eventually contribute to
    development of a real space plane.

    dino00 and Big_Gazza like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9260
    Points : 9342
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:44 am

    GarryB wrote:Zero points for consistency dude... weren't you constantly complaining that they don't do anything and they lack vision and are still using Soviet stuff and riding on the coat tails of yesterday and that they haven't done anything new....

    Consistency is always 100% both on my end and theirs: they still aren't doing anything new, they definitely lack vision (unless it's about panhandling from foreigners about space tourism) they are still using exclusively Soviet stuff, they are still riding on coat tails of yesterday and they still haven't done anything new

    They can't even get Angara up and running even after all this time, two launches in 30 years development time, it's a bad joke



    GarryB wrote:Now they say they are going to do lots of new things, and you blow it off as just promises....

    They never stopped saying they will do many new things, that was never a problem and was always their strongest talent: always talking never doing

    30 years of talking how they will make many great things and they are always 5 years away without fail and never getting there

    30 years of looking in neighbor's yard instead of cleaning up their own

    And panhandling, always panhandling



    GarryB wrote:

    The stupidity and incompetence of the guy running the show is all in your head...

    The stupidity and incompetence of the guy running the show was made evident and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt with his stupid trampoline comments, his retarded accusations about Americans drilling holes in Soyuz and with his Moon landing conspiracies

    And with stagnation, decline and failures of the organization he is in charge of



    GarryB wrote:take a deep breath... wish them all the best (you do want them to succeed don't you?) and give them the time they specify to either succeed or fail...

    I learned long ago that what I wish has no influence on what they do

    If my wishes had any effect they would have at least stopped panhandling and acted with some semblance of dignity

    Maybe even done something for a change...

    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2987
    Points : 2987
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 44
    Location : Merkelland

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  Hole on Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:46 am

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 000919
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 001017
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 001124
    The plan for a small shuttle goes back to the 70´s. Buran should be the truck to deliver heavy things into orbit and put them togehter while the light shuttle was the taxi to fly from one space installation to the other or back to earth.
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2008
    Points : 2010
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:56 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:They can't even get Angara up and running even after all this time, two launches in 30 years development time, it's a bad joke

    You know as well as anyone why Angara has taken a long time.  Its generally due to a lack of available funds and low political priority given that Proton & Soyuz already provides adequate capability.  Angara was originally a military project started to ensure the MoD could launch any needed national security payload from secure Russian territory (Plesetsk), and as such funds were mostly unavailable for a decade. Angara eventually morphed into a civilian launcher, and while funding became available in the 00s, it was barely adequate.

    Add to that the need to build a pad at Vostochny to replace the vast Baikonour complex on foreign soil (but only after the Soyuz pad and technical complexes are completed) and the decision to build an all-new supply chain and manufacturing infrastructure using modern production techniques (as opposed to extending the Soviet-era workshops and build practises that you dislike so much..).

    Hey presto - you have multi-decadal delays...

    I think you know this but you choose to ignore Angara's difficult gestation, as anything other doesn't mesh with your Rogozin-hatred fetish.

    Maybe you need to consider Russias space program developments as a parallel of their development of multi-decade asymmetrical weapons programs like Sarmat, Avanagard, Burevestnik, Posiedon, Peresvet etc.  Long term development programs running in parallel, each competing for a limited budget and resources, but running more or less continuously under the radar and culminating at approx the same timescale.  An ignorant or politically-biased observer would assume that "nothing was happening" until of course these system become public knowledge and their reality is evident for all to see.  So to with Roskosos programs.  The mid-to-late 20s will be interesting times, and much egg will appear on the faces of Russias perennial detractors.
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2008
    Points : 2010
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:09 pm

    kvs wrote: It looks like the Soyuz-MS will be replaced by a species of the Hermes (not Buran)

    I think the Kliper concept is more appropriate.  It was premature to consider back in the 00s, but I expect the concept will be adopted in the late 2020s and by then the issue of funds won't be the issue it was.

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 1920px-%D0%9A%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80_Infografia

    Sponsored content

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3 - Page 12 Empty Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:05 am