Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+13
miketheterrible
George1
The-thing-next-door
hoom
southpark
GarryB
Big_Gazza
nero
Admin
LMFS
kvs
Hole
jhelb
17 posters

    How to defeat Hypersonic threats?

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 30569
    Points : 31099
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    How to defeat Hypersonic threats? - Page 2 Empty Re: How to defeat Hypersonic threats?

    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:27 am

    Regarding the topic of the threat of hypersonic manouvering weapons... Russia is currently in the best position to defend itself and also in the best position to attack, with long experience of trying to penetrate the air defences of US carrier groups.

    Right now Russian SAMs like S-400 and S-350 can intercept targets moving at about 4.8km/s and their new S-500 will extend that capacity to 7km or more, but these are current and new to service weapons that can intercept anything the US has in service or is likely to have in service over the next few years.

    On the other hand HATO would struggle to stop a full scale Kh-101/2 attack, let alone Iskander and Kh-32, or Kinzhal which are all already in service.

    The Zircon and related scramjet powered weapons just makes things worse for HATO.

    Of course the Russians will be working on methods and weapons and tactics to defeat their own method of attack, but as they will have real scramjet powered targets to practise with their progress should be fairly good. The scrapping of the INF treaty means IRBMs can be used as cheap targets too... which will make things easier.

    BTW some of the targets the US used to test their ABM systems probably violated the INF treaty too...
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 5739
    Points : 5729
    Join date : 2016-08-16
    Location : AZ, USA

    How to defeat Hypersonic threats? - Page 2 Empty Re: How to defeat Hypersonic threats?

    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:26 am

    All USN CVNs have 4 CIWS mounts each, to engage AShMs, low flying aircraft, & boats.
    IMO, the US won't be attacking Russia directly, but to keep the pressure on, they'll deploy land, submarine & air based C/IRBMs within striking ranges.
    If need be, a few more older Ohio SSBNs can be converted to SSGNs w/o compromising 2nd strike capability, esp. after they r replaced with Columbia SSBNs.
    As we all know, HSMs r useless against submerged subs.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 30569
    Points : 31099
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    How to defeat Hypersonic threats? - Page 2 Empty Re: How to defeat Hypersonic threats?

    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:57 pm

    Hahahaha... four... like a Soviet destroyer would have....

    The one Russian carrier has the equivalent of 24 TOR systems plus 8 Pantsir vehicles with gatling guns replacing the twin 30mm cannon plus 6 further single 30mm 6 barrel gatling guns...
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 10625
    Points : 10772
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    How to defeat Hypersonic threats? - Page 2 Empty Re: How to defeat Hypersonic threats?

    Post  kvs Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:02 pm

    CIWS in any of the variants out there has no effectiveness against hypersonic missiles.

    The usual imagery of supersonic anti-ship missiles hitting from the side should be considered only one of the modes
    of attack. A hypersonic missile can strike a ship from above. I suspect the Kinzhal is designed for such a mode.
    Why bother? Speed. There is more drag in near the surface. The need for radar avoidance is not that important
    for hypersonic missiles so skimming the surface becomes an unnecessary cost.

    Hole likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 30569
    Points : 31099
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    How to defeat Hypersonic threats? - Page 2 Empty Re: How to defeat Hypersonic threats?

    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:23 am

    Actually to achieve max speed most hypersonic weapons will be flying at over 25km altitude and a terminal steep dive on a target would both maximise terminal speed but also render most CIWS ineffective simply because of the speed they are moving at.

    Even assuming SEA RAM or PHALANX or GOALKEEPER can point vertically the target would only remain in the engagement range envelope of such system for a 2 seconds at most... the effective range of Phalanx is about 1.8km so half a second... less than that because the muzzle velocity of the rounds is only about 1km/s... so it could start engaging at say 2km altitude but if the intercept time is more than half a second the rounds will actually be aimed ahead of the target with a lead to hit it in motion... meaning after the target is 1km away the shells will start hitting the deck of the ship under attack...

    SEARAM is unlikely to get a lock in time to launch at the target before impact... the Standard SAMs radars can't look vertically up so they can't engage targets diving vertically on them and are not tested against targets flying at that height or speed...

    ahmedfire, dino00 and kvs like this post


    Sponsored content

    How to defeat Hypersonic threats? - Page 2 Empty Re: How to defeat Hypersonic threats?

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:55 am