Russian Civil Aviation: News #3

Such a moaning about a few tooling machines not being deliverd from Japan and Trumpland? There are many ways around it. Buy them in China. Or order them via a third country. Or build them localy.

The article from kommersant states that composites from China is thicker and heavier, while building the composites in Russia will push the project up to at least 2025, of course the best solution is to manufacture the composites locally but to take 6 years to do this is unacceptable especially now that Russia already has the means and capacity to produce composite materials domestically.

Perhaps Russia at the moment dont have enough production plants to meet the volume of composites required for the MS 21? Or is quality of Russian composites the issue? If I were Putin since the west has a developed a fetish for sanctions Id ask the GRU or SVR to steal US and Japanese composite technologies / know how to aid Russia's own production capabilities.

Yesterday UAC and Rostec have denied any threat to the project due to composites

https://sputniknews.com/business/201901101071368647-mc-21-composite-materials-sanctions/

Nibiru wrote:The article from kommersant states that composites from China is thicker and heavier, while building the composites in Russia will push the project up to at least 2025, of course the best solution is to manufacture the composites locally but to take 6 years to do this is unacceptable especially now that Russia already has the means and capacity to produce  composite materials domestically.

Perhaps Russia at the moment dont have enough production plants to meet the volume of composites required for the MS 21? Or is quality of Russian composites the issue? If I were Putin since the west has a developed a fetish for sanctions Id ask the GRU or SVR to steal US and Japanese composite technologies / know how to aid Russia's own production capabilities.

No, it's kommersant, another famous foreign based Russian news that Austin loves to link. Kommersant is more or less yellow journalism.

miketheterrible wrote:

Nibiru wrote:......

No, it's kommersant, another famous foreign based Russian news that Austin loves to link. Kommersant is more or less yellow journalism.

And yet everyone including "reliable" sources are quoting and commenting on it while all government has to say is that "everything is fine, pinky swear, scout's honor"

They advertised this project as local and yet whole thing as built around fake claim and fraud

Entire project had just been pushed back at least a decade in which time competition will be delivering their own competing while this one is relegated to dustbin, think SSJ only worse since SSJ at least sold something

Question now is (as always) who took the money and who in the government provided cover for them?

They should start with whoever is claiming that everything is fine (that is if they were ever even serious about this whole comedy show)

So you believe Kommersant and not the Government?

PapaDragon wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

Nibiru wrote:......

No, it's kommersant, another famous foreign based Russian news that Austin loves to link.  Kommersant is more or less yellow journalism.

And yet everyone including "reliable" sources are quoting and commenting on it while all government has to say is that "everything is fine, pinky swear, scout's honor"

They advertised this project as local and yet whole thing as built around fake claim and fraud

Entire project had just been pushed back at least a decade in which time competition will be delivering their own competing while this one is relegated to dustbin, think SSJ only worse since SSJ at least sold something

Question now is (as always) who took the money and who in the government provided cover for them?

They should start with whoever is claiming that everything is fine (that is if they were ever even serious about this whole comedy show)

Actually no, in the Sputnik article it states its bullshit.  

Also we are fully aware who makes composite wings in Russia, and the Kommersant article couldn't even keep consistency since it stated that the composite company in Kazan could handle the project then states in the Rosatom one that they don't have production of such capabilities yet, which then contradicts their previous statement.

Regardless, UAC stated that there is no issue with parts either from foreign entities which they do not deny the uses of composites from foreign entities for the wings  <--------This apparently now confirmed to be false.  So I was lied by twitter, go figure.

And were did you read this was a fully Russian project?  Project is local?  Go back and read, others complained before even first prototype on the low usage of domestic parts.  Something like 60% at best?

Edit: http://tass.com/economy/1039340

So there is indeed a block on sales, but there seems to be a bit more on the subject at hand:

"After Aerocomposit was put on the sanctions list, we initiated an appeal procedure on that decision. Such decisions mean the use of sanctions rhetoric in a competitive struggle in high-tech sectors," the source added.

The company noted that the move had required "additional efforts to provide an uninterrupted flow of the program to create composite wings."

According to Kommersant, the remaining composite reserves will be enough for production of another six planes. For several years, Rosatom, VIAM (All-Russian Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Materials) and a number of private companies have been involved in mastering composites production for aviation, UAC explained. As part of a general import substitution plan, the step-by-step replacement of necessary components of the MC-21 composite wing with locally-made equivalents is underway, the state-run corporation said.

Meanwhile, the substitution of material may be registered as supplemental type certificate, which will not affect the term of the certification itself, UAC added.

I stand by my initial statement - Russia should make a 100% Russian jet.  No more imports of parts that are also made at home....

If this pushes back a couple of years the release of the jet, then let that be a warning to Russian companies thinking stupid in doing cooperation with the west.

I still cant figure out why they even bothered to do that in the first place? There must be some really stupid engineers and managers at these companies were they think that sanctions wont affect them.

Hole wrote:So you believe Kommersant and not the Government?

Both deliver extensive amounts of BS on daily basis

However I learned from experience that blind optimism is idiot's approach

And this would not be first time they got screwed over by putting blind faith in foreign companies based on empty promises and dumb trust

First Night Flight of MS-21-300 

A. Martyanov's (aka SmoothieX12) comment on his blog:

Total liberda BS (originated in Kommersant which is a euphemism for liberasts who have no clue). Russia's Aerocomposit was under sanctions for a long time now. Aerocomposit manufactures the whole line of composite materials from carbon fiber (including Prepregs) to polyaramide materials such as DuPonte's Kevlar (it is merely a trademark). Hexcell, as its title hints is known primarily for its honeycomb core "fillers" for composite structures, from wings to panels of fuselage. You can see, for example, core pieces here:

http://aerocomposit.ru/proizvodstvo-v-kazani/

Nothing stops, nothing is impeded, everything continues as planned--it is another liberal (so called--opposition) provocation, obviously also spread by all kinds of Russian "patriots" from the "right" fringes. I may blog on that.

Kimppis wrote:A. Martyanov's (aka SmoothieX12) comment on his blog:

Total liberda BS (originated in Kommersant which is a euphemism for liberasts who have no clue). Russia's Aerocomposit was under sanctions for a long time now. Aerocomposit manufactures the whole line of composite materials from carbon fiber (including Prepregs) to polyaramide materials such as DuPonte's Kevlar (it is merely a trademark). Hexcell, as its title hints is known primarily for its honeycomb core "fillers" for composite structures, from wings to panels of fuselage. You can see, for example, core pieces here:

http://aerocomposit.ru/proizvodstvo-v-kazani/

Nothing stops, nothing is impeded, everything continues as planned--it is another liberal (so called--opposition) provocation, obviously also spread by all kinds of Russian "patriots" from the "right" fringes. I may blog on that.

Phew! I guess?

I trust Martyanov more than media and Russian government combined so if he says that nothing happened then it's back to business as usual

Again some wasted pages because some of you guys freak out every time some western-paid "journalist" of some western-backed/-owned "newspaper" spews out some shit from unknown sources.

Hole wrote:Again some wasted pages because some of you guys freak out every time some western-paid "journalist" of some western-backed/-owned "newspaper" spews out some shit from unknown sources.

Once Russian government and development sector improves their track record we won't have to waste pages

PapaDragon wrote:

Hole wrote:Again some wasted pages because some of you guys freak out every time some western-paid "journalist" of some western-backed/-owned "newspaper" spews out some shit from unknown sources.

Once Russian government and development sector improves their track record we won't have to waste pages

Cant do that if the media keeps faking the news and whatever Russian government and industry state is instantly classified as either propaganda or bullshit.

Then we find out the government/industry was correct thanks to Smoothie pointing out with evidence.

This isn't first time either. If it really wasnt for Smoothie or sdelanounas or Rostec news, then I think we would have a lot more people here parroting the nonsense of Kommersant, TV Rain and the other foreign liberal jew owned yellow journalism.

PapaDragon wrote:

Hole wrote:Again some wasted pages because some of you guys freak out every time some western-paid "journalist" of some western-backed/-owned "newspaper" spews out some shit from unknown sources.

Once Russian government and development sector improves their track record we won't have to waste pages

I always find amusement when Serbs bark down on what Russians need to do. It's like you guys have all the answers in the world, except for ones to fix their own country. Got family photos for your projection?

Once Russian government and development sector improves their track record we won't have to waste pages

U r also wasting our time with those diatribes! It's better wait & see until time will tell what's really going on, as all sides have their own agendas.
The USSR been under sanctions most of the time, but still managed to build & use comparable civil jet powered aircraft & even export some. And they can burn more fuel with less efficient engines & heavier planes- the oil is cheap & they have plenty of it. If the MC-21 isn't exported, no big deal, they'll use it domestically.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Hole wrote:Again some wasted pages because some of you guys freak out every time some western-paid "journalist" of some western-backed/-owned "newspaper" spews out some shit from unknown sources.

Once Russian government and development sector improves their track record we won't have to waste pages

I always find amusement when Serbs bark down on what Russians need to do. It's like you guys have all the answers in the world, except for ones to fix their own country. Got family photos for your projection?

Big words coming from someone who doesn't have the balls to post his own location.

What's the matter? Scared of criticism? C'mon, it can't be that big of a shithole...

Interview with Andrei Ivanovich Boginsky, Director General of the Russian Helicopters Holding.

https://www.aex.ru/docs/3/2018/12/30/2862/

If I were Putin since the west has a developed a fetish for sanctions Id ask the GRU or SVR to steal US and Japanese composite technologies / know how to aid Russia's own production capabilities.

No need to steal... they have the money... find the person who owns the process and pay for licence production and then get some Russian experts in the field to examine the process and fund experimentation on the subject and try to make it even better... especially if you can make the components cheaper or quicker to make... there was an example in a thread about ships where the processes to form ship structures went from 60 days to something like 3-4 days... and apply that new technology or production methodology in all sorts of areas and fields of production in Russia.

PapaDragon wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Hole wrote:Again some wasted pages because some of you guys freak out every time some western-paid "journalist" of some western-backed/-owned "newspaper" spews out some shit from unknown sources.

Once Russian government and development sector improves their track record we won't have to waste pages

I always find amusement when Serbs bark down on what Russians need to do. It's like you guys have all the answers in the world, except for ones to fix their own country.  Got family photos for your projection?

Big words coming from someone who doesn't have the balls to post his own location.

What's the matter? Scared of criticism? C'mon, it can't be that big of a shithole...

Pindostan, are you daft? Serbs on this forum unanimously have something to lecture the Federation on (insert subject) about..big talk for country that probably won't exist in 30 years (you guys struggle to protect a hydro-electro dam FFS). This is ironic, in comparison of members from other parts of Yugoslavia (Slovenia, Croatia, Macedoni) their far more respectful (unanimously) than the Serbs on this forum. To think Russians died on battlefields during WW1 to protect you grown crying/wailing children. Even the destruction of Yugoslobia can be attributed to naive Yugoslob leaders enacting a policy of 'sitting in two chairs at once'. I mean weren't you saying your puny Yugoslob MIC creates better drones that the from the Federation? Yeah were's your Buran, Avantgarde, Storm-Petrel, Poseidon strategic level drones?

magnumcromagnon wrote:.......This is ironic, in comparison of members from other parts of Yugoslavia (Slovenia, Croatia, Macedoni) their far more respectful (unanimously) than the Serbs on this forum...

Yeah, we do have nasty tendency to use our brains and to think for ourselves instead of having others to do it for us. Glad you noticed it, we are quite proud of that feature.

magnumcromagnon wrote:.......To think Russians died on battlefields during WW1 to protect you grown crying/wailing children...

Oh yeah, they were so eager to get out of it that they ended up in civil war, commie cult and losing a war even though they were supposed to be on winning side. Only time it happened in history.

Which brings us to:

magnumcromagnon wrote:.......big talk for country that probably won't exist in 30 years ...

How did last two Russian countries end up?

magnumcromagnon wrote:.....Pindostan, are you daft? ...

So USA?

Tell me kid, do you have the balls to open your mouth in public and trashtalk your own nation or do just crawl here in the dark and do it anonymously like every other spineless maggot?

Man, USA really went down the shitter since the 80's...

http://www.planepix.ch/webpage/SSJ100/datasheet/Sukhoi-Superjet-SSJ100-Datasheet-online.jpg

The MS-21 program will be implemented with a composite wing from domestic components


Under the MS-21 program, flight and ground tests of the first experienced MS-21-300 aircraft are conducted. The manufacture of parts and assemblies of the first machines intended for delivery to customers began.

“Since 2014, the aviation industry has been working with Rosatom, VIAM, Moscow State University, a number of private companies to create manufacturing technology for composite structures made of domestic materials,” said Yuri Slyusar, President of PJSC UAC.

As the head of the KLA, "these decisions are in the process of transition to mass production, appropriate samples are tested, their introduction into the MS-21 program will be incrementally implemented after completion of the basic certification tests as part of the general program of import substitution, including remotorization MS-21 engine PD -14 ".

At the same time, he noted that “the ban of US authorities on suppliers to work with the Russian high-tech company AeroComposite on civilian product MS-21 is inexplicable for us. We began the procedure for appealing this decision. ”

http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/modernizatsiya_i_importozameshchenie/programma_ms_21_budet_realizovana_s_kompozitnym_krylom_iz_otechestvennykh_komponentov/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

Free market competition the Trumpland way.