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    New START Treaty

    Hole
    Hole


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    Post  Hole Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:12 pm

    Temporarily... until Alaska is returned.  Laughing

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:37 am

    Believe it or not, that applies to all the political&military activities carried out by the collective West for the last 20 years.

    Totally agree with everything you said in that post but would add that the west started out in the early 1990s saying that the cold war was over... they didn't gloat about winning at all... how can they say Russia lost the cold war if their punishment was to become a democratic state?

    But that didn't last... politicians desperate to hold power ran in elections saying they won the cold war so obviously the Russians had to have lost and then it became a matter of what had we won.... eliminated a threat... great, but their country is so messed up... lets pinch as much of it as we can, so they started doing that... and for Russians they thought they had won the cold war because they got rid of communism and were now going to be welcomed into the international community, which as everyone knows is secret code for the west. They pulled their soldiers out of eastern europe and US and UK and French forces moved right on in.

    By 2000 with the BS over the former Yugoslavia it became very clear very quickly the only thing that made sense of what the west said and did in those conflicts was that Serbia was Russias friend and therefore is designated the overall bad guy... everything they do is bad and we need to punish them for that... and why isn't Russia bowing and following our orders and  doing as we demand them to do... almost like they remain an independent country and not a colony that can be ordered around by our lowest member like the Baltic States or Poland.

    Taken quite a few years to realise but we are there now for Russia and indeed China... India has seen glimpses but I think needs a bit more to really understand her real position in this.... now the only people not getting it are the west... but some warning signs are showing and a few voices crop up from time to time.

    The core problem is that Russia is over... we beat them in the cold war so the bestest and the brightest are not working on the problems of Russia anymore... most universities had strong Soviet or Russian studies departments but they are all gone and only idiots remain experts in those fields in paid positions, but the Yes man culture means they are never wrong... they just double down and claim the next set of sanctions will result in Putin becoming unpopular and being kicked out of office... if the west keeps going the way it is going Putin will be the most popular man in Russia ever... and why not... he started with a very weak hand but did what needed to be done and putting the right people in the right places Russia has been transformed from what the Ukraine is now (war in Chechnia, and corruption and no public trust in the military or government) to what Russia is now... fighting two wars, balancing its budgets and still putting money away for a rainy day after the effects of covid and the most sanctions any country has had to endure...

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:38 am

    Putin's rule will be reminded by a history on pair with the greatest tsars the Russian Empire had.
    Clowns who undermine his achievements are ... clowns Laughing
    A guy took a rotten, spoiled, and in a process of disintegration country, and turned it back into the world's superpower status in less than 20 years. No matter the garbage collective west was throwing on him, no matter a load of troubles they put on Russia, he just walked steadily forward. Islamist insurgency, economic crises, political instability ... he managed to resolve that all. He returned pride to regular Russian citizens, a dark shadow of losing the "cold war" is just a distant unpleasant memory. An interesting fact is, that people who know him, portray the opposite of what the western MSM garbage is doing. In reality, each negative characteristic put on him turns out to be the opposite. And we talk about testimonies of dozens of politicians and people around the globe, really serious players like Modi, Xi, Abe, Schroeder, Berlusconi etc.
    When clowns like Macron publics private phone calls, it turns out that Putin is saying in private conversation just the same as he does in public!.
    No deals, no soft play, no opportunism.
    This is a part that the "modern western world" does not understand anymore - that the politician tells the truth.
    If one herd what Putin was saying in the last 20 years, it is very easy to figure out the next steps of Russian politics.
    They will act accordingly to Putin's words, step by step.
    The fate of Ukraine was propheted by him in detail and in different scenarios, on several occasions.
    But the point is, that the western audience really has a mental issue with understanding that what is being said will be executed.

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    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:42 pm

    Russia-West Agreement on Coexistence Needed for Arms Control Dialogue: Deputy FM, 01.26.2023.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) - It is strange for the United States to demand from Russia the resumption of inspections under the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (New START) after Kiev tried to strike Russian long-range aviation facilities, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov has said.

    "It is very strange, if not harsh, to demand the resumption of inspections at Russian facilities of strategic offensive forces when the Kiev regime has made attempts to strike at our long-range aviation facilities with the direct military-technical and intelligence-information participation of the United States," Ryabkov told Russian media. The full interview is published on the foreign ministry's website.

    "The question arises: what exactly are the Americans going to check there? Maybe, the consequences of these attacks?" the deputy minister added.

    When asked if Moscow is concerned that without inspections and meetings of the bilateral consultative commission, the United States will accuse Russia of violating the treaty and stop fulfilling it's side, Ryabkov responded by saying that while the collapse of New START will cause "deep regret," Moscow will not "forcibly" keep the United States in the treaty.
    If the Americans decide to aggravate the situation for propaganda purposes, it will be their choice. We are no stranger to Washington destroying arms control agreements instead of taking concrete practical steps to strengthen their viability. [...] We proceed from the fact that the agreement objectively continues to meet the interests of both countries.

    Sergey Ryabkov
    Deputy Foreign Minister

    Ryabkov said that in order to continue the dialogue on arms control with Washington, it is necessary to agree on the principles of coexistence that minimize conflict potential with the West.

    He added that any such agreement should be based on the principles of equality and strict parity. "No unilateral concessions are allowed here," he stressed.

    "For our part, we state that the over-the-top aggressiveness of the United States, which relied on inflicting a 'strategic defeat' on Russia in the all-out hybrid war unleashed against us, made it practically impossible in principle to conduct constructive and fruitful dealings with Washington on arms control in the 'business as usual' mode. This, of course, does not mean that we are giving up arms control as such," the diplomat said.

    Ryabkov added that no new date had been set for talks with the United States on New START on Monday, as the conditions were not right for new talks on the treaty.

    Last month, the deputy FM stressed that Russia-US talks on strategic arms reduction had been paused, not terminated. Moscow postponed a round of nuclear arms control talks with the United States set for late November in Cairo, with Ryabkov emphasizing at the time that the US had "not just demonstrated their reluctance to listen to our signals and reckon with our priorities, but also acted in the opposite way."

    "The situation does not, frankly speaking, allow for setting a new date, ... taking into account this escalation trend in both rhetoric and actions by the United States," Ryabkov stated.

    The diplomat added that Washington wanted to focus on resuming inspections under New START, while stonewalling Russia's request to discuss specifics related to the weapons count under the treaty.

    Signed in 2010 by then-Presidents Barack Obama and Dmitry Medvedev, the nuclear arms control pact aimed at halving the number of strategic nuclear missile launchers.

    It was set to expire last year, however, Moscow and Washington managed to find common ground and approved a prolongation of the accord for five more years without renegotiating any of its terms. The treaty will now expire on February 4, 2026.

    https://sputniknews.com/20230126/russia-west-agreement-on-coexistence-needed-for-arms-control-dialogue-deputy-fm-1106738934.html

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:13 pm

    Accusations begin similarly to the INF. The US is likely to exit the START treaty in the near future. It's good for Russia. Russia has an advantage over the US in ICBM and other strategic weapons technologies. Very Happy


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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:45 am

    If the US believes this then they should withdraw from the treaty...

    Either way now that the INF treaty is gone Russia must ramp up production of smaller theatre nukes to fit on their medium and intermediate range weapons they can point at Europe and Japan and Australia.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:39 am

    Russia should update the RSD-10 (SS-20) and return it to service. Traitor Gorbie destroyed them as he was preparing to sell Russia down the river with his
    tag team partner Yeltsin.

    No more appeasement deals with NATzO and its owner USA.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:44 am

    I would think nuclear tipped kh101 would do a fine job, as would kinzhal


    Even a YARS in depressed trajectory could perform the same role when launched from Urals

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:13 am



    May this be the final end of this treaty.

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    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:11 pm

    To clarify the START Treaty is not cancelled
    - the numbers of allowed launchers and warheads will be maintained
    - the notification process will be maintained
    - the inspection process however will not be maintained

    "On the eve of the message to the Federal Assembly, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the suspension of participation in the Start Treaty. He stressed that this is a suspension, not a withdrawal from the agreement. At the same time, the head of state said that before returning to the discussion of the START Treaty, the country should understand how to take into account the nuclear arsenals of France and Great Britain."

    https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/ru-en.en.baa92182-63f60432-634e1000-74722d776562/https/iz.ru/1474258/2023-02-22/v-mo-zaverili-v-sobliudenii-rossiei-ogranicheniia-dsnv-po-nositeliam-iadernykh-boezariadov

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:33 pm

    Russia should withdraw completely from the START treaty.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:00 pm

    They just did. Their remaining participation amounts to nothing more than pinky swearing we have this and that missile or warheads. Razz

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:39 pm

    Actually they don't need to withdraw, but they did need to stop the inspections... as they said... what did they want to inspect... the damage done by Ukraine terrorist attacks, or the new security measures so they can advise the Ukraine how to bypass them too...

    Russia can ramp up its production of tactical nuclear weapons and put them on short, medium, and intermediate range weapons that are not covered by the START treaty which covers only strategic weapons and not theatre weapons.

    This means Russia can use an SS-20 like weapon to cover targets in Europe and the Middle East, while their START counted weapons can be pointed exclusively at the US.

    Of course moving forward the US can base such medium range weapons in Europe and Asia and so they would need to count as strategic weapons too for the US.

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    gc3762


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    Post  gc3762 Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:50 pm

    https://vz.ru/news/2023/3/16/1203348.html

    Yandex Translation:

    It is time for Washington to understand that Russia is a sovereign actor acting on the basis of its own interests, Senator Andrei Klimov told the VZGLYAD newspaper. Earlier, the US State Department announced the invalidity of the suspension of Russia's participation in the New START Treaty.

    “International treaties presuppose the agreement of each party to comply with the conditions prescribed in them. This is the essence of any agreement. But the United States is accustomed to acting in relation to other countries as to its subordinates, ”said Andrey Klimov, head of the Federation Council commission for the protection of Russia's state sovereignty.

    “We are not US vassals. They can blame NATO or EU countries for anything. Russia is a sovereign actor, and we will act on the basis of our own interests. Moreover, Moscow did not terminate the New START. We suspended participation, for which there were good reasons. In particular, such a decision was made to ban US flights over Russia in conditions when Washington is actually waging a hybrid war against us,” the senator notes.

    “States can deny anything they don’t like indefinitely. Even if they oppose the fact that the Earth revolves around the Sun. Their considerations have nothing to do with our actions. It is time for Washington to come to terms with this thesis,” Klimov sums up.

    Earlier, the US State Department issued a statement in which Russia's announced suspension of participation in START was called "legally invalid." According to the diplomatic agency, Moscow is still "bound by circumstances" in accordance with the Treaty.

    Washington also called on Moscow to allow inspections on the territory of the Russian Federation. In addition, the States demanded that Russia agree to a meeting of the Bilateral Consultative Commission.

    Recall that on March 1, the United States received a notification from Moscow about the decision to suspend participation in the START Treaty. State Department spokesman Ned Price called such actions "irresponsible and deplorable." At the same time, he stressed that Washington is ready to continue constructive cooperation on the issue of arms control with Russia.

    Earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree suspending Moscow's participation in the New START Treaty. In his opinion, the agreement is outdated due to the fact that its action  does not formally apply to NATO. Meanwhile, the alliance openly declares its desire to inflict a “strategic defeat” on Russia, in connection with which taking into account the nuclear potentials of Great Britain and France also becomes vital.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:31 am

    Should anyone listen to US complaints any more?

    Regarding moving forward the SS-20 was an excellent missile but I honestly think instead of a rocket powered weapon they could come up with a scramjet powered winged missile a fraction of the size and weight but with similar or better performance and being a powered platform could actively evade enemy air defences in a way that a rocket powered weapon would use too much fuel to achieve.

    The SS-20 was just over 16m long and weighed almost 40 tons... rockets are mostly fuel and oxidiser, so if we say 5 tons everything else and 35 tons fuel and oxidiser the divided by four is roughly 9 tons of actual fuel with a further 24 tons of oxidiser to burn the fuel in flight.

    This means a scramjet powered missile could probably be in the 10 to 15 ton weight range with a 5,000km range... reducing the fuel weight by 24 tons of oxidiser means the weapon can be smaller which also means lighter. The design of a scramjet means it can have an internal rocket motor to boost flight speed before the main rocket motor is started but because of the size of the missile you would probably have a solid rocket motor to get the missile airborne and moving which means a solid rocket stage would be needed so maybe 18 tons per missile, which is very manageable.

    You could fit them in standard shipping containers and carry them around on ships and trucks and trains that can look like any other container ship or normal truck or train carriage.

    If you just want a single warhead weapon you could probably develop a smaller 5 ton missile that could be loaded four to a shipping container... long and slim and with wings for the first part of the flight as it climbs and accelerates to speed...

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    Broski
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    Post  Broski Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:33 pm

    Once the New START treaty is abandoned (by the US), Russia needs to mass produce 5000km+ range Nuclear tipped Zircon missiles, as Garry said you can save a ton (or 25 tonnes) of weight and US air defences will have no means of shooting it down. Good thing they've put the Tu-160 back into production, eh?

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:18 pm

    After what the US did with the ABM and INF treaties it has not a shred of basis to bitch about Russia's suspension (not termination) of
    START participation. But everything about the US is bloody hypocrisy. All of their moral posturing is rotten to the core. Their supposed
    "democracy" is a police state and gang toilet. The grotesque cases of abuse of people in the US at the hands of judges and law enforcement
    are truly exceptional.

    Hitler bitched at the USSR for being a rotten facade. Well, it is the US that is a rotten facade.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:14 am

    It is interesting because before ICBMs were a thing there were lots of big cruise missile projects to create supersonic very long range strategic missiles and they included winged weapons from the Lavochkin company that made fighter aircraft during WWII... the company that made the La-5FN also made the Burya La-350 which was an enormous delta winged cruise missile with a range of over 6,000km at speeds of mach 3 designed to deliver a nuclear bomb... the Americans were developing similar weapons called the Snark and the Navaho, but the success of the R-7 ICBM meant such projects were cancelled.

    The ramjet motor being used meant flight speeds of mach 3 could be achieved comfortably but not a lot faster than that like an ICBM.

    The scramjet motor gives the opportunity to fly higher and much much faster with the efficiency of a jet engine that scoops up its air as it goes to burn the fuel rather than having to carry all its fuel and oxygen with it at launch which makes it very heavy... needing more powerful rockets to get it moving, needing more fuel, making it bigger and heavier in an unhealthy circle of weight growth... which makes it more expensive too.

    The Thunderbird might be worth looking at, behind a nuclear powered cruise missile... of course they could put multiple nuclear warheads on it and put retractable wheels and call it a drone to get around START BS... Twisted Evil

    The US openly lied about the AEGIS Ashore... they said it was not compatible with Tomahawk cruise missiles because if it was that would violate the INF treaty... 16 days after the INF treaty was officially ripped up by the US they tested a Tomahawk cruise missile from the damn thing....

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:45 pm



    Interesting discussion about potential nuclear war.

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