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    Russian ASAT development

    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:32 pm

    Russia developed A-SAT tech back in the 50s if I'm not mistaken. Russia's space programme is one of the most evolved in the world.

    Ergo, what would be interesting to find out is why did Russia carry out a A-SAT test now? Maybe a new missile is being tested, keeping FOBS in mind perhaps.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:05 pm

    Probably just the final test of Nudol.
    It was dumb and dangerous.

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    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:48 pm

    Russia's Defence Minister Confirms Russia Succesfully Tested Anti-Satellite System, 16/11/2021.

    Earlier in the day, the Russian Defence Ministry said that Russia has successfully conducted a test on 15 November, hitting an inoperative Russian satellite, Tselina-D.

    Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu confirmed that Russia had successfully tested an anti-satellite system.

    “We have really successfully tested a promising system. It has hit an old satellite precisely,” Shoigu said, answering journalists' questions during a working trip to the troops of the Western Military District in the Voronezh region.

    The fragments of the old satellite, which formed during the testing of the anti-satellite system, do not pose any threat to space activities, Sergei Shoigu added.

    Earlier in the day, the Russian Ministry of Defence said that the United States has been well aware that the fragments of the downed satellite pose no threat to the ISS or other space assets, given the test's timing and orbital parameters.

    The fragments have been immediately added to the main catalogue of the Russian space control system and will be tracked until they cease to exist, the ministry added.

    https://sputniknews.com/20211116/russias-defence-minister-confirms-russia-succesfully-tested-anti-satellite-system-1090775040.html

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:27 pm

    dino00 wrote:Probably just the final test of Nudol.
    It was dumb and dangerous.

    No. NATzO is run by retards who need primitive signaling. I recall all the marveling at a similar test conducted by China about a decade ago.
    As if Russia had no such ability.

    The reaction from Washington proves that this test was right on target.

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:06 pm

    dino00 wrote:Probably just the final test of Nudol.
    Possible. That aside, S-500 and probably S-550 both have A-SAT capability. So maybe one of the missile from these missile complex was test fired.

    Like I said before, Russia probably tested an A-SAT keeping enemy FOBS or space plane like X-37 in mind.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:34 am

    The western over reaction to any other state testing anti satellite weapons solves several problems... first the stupid western public read about the western complaints but wont read much about complaints by other countries when the US does exactly the same thing.

    It also means if any US test goes wrong and debris does become a problem then they can say they had to do it because the Russians/Chinese/Iranians/North Koreans are doing it and the US can't be behind in technology.

    What they ignore is that Russia was happy to sign agreements banning weapons in space and the US refused and are working on their own systems.

    The fact that they are working on their own  systems means at some stage they are going to have to test them so by going apeshit over Russian tests they can then explain their own actions by saying they did it first... which of course they didn't... the US has been pollution earth orbit for quite some time. same with the atmosphere and water...

    Part of being able to use anti satellite weapons is also to make sure the target you destroy does not damage critical satellites of your own and the added number of objects will be tracked to give warnings to satellite that can be moved to avoid interactions in orbit.

    Would be interesting to see if they could launch something that cleaned up some of the debris or reduced the fragments further to make them less dangerous...

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    Autodestruct


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    Post  Autodestruct Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:08 am

    I wouldn't say that the reaction from the US and others is just posturing or overreaction. The difference between this recent test and what the US Navy did back in 08 is significant. The US lowered the altitude of the target in that test to ~250km, and so the debris fully burned up in the atmosphere within a couple years.

    What I've found on the Tselina satellites indicates that the target altitude was likely quite a bit higher. The satellite's orbit would have decayed some since it ceased to function, but if TASS ( https://tass.com/science/1362325 ) is correct, not that much and the intercept happened somewhere around 450-460km in altitude. The Russians may be right in that they prepared the intercept so that the ISS and satellites aren't threatened. But that debris could be up there for many years, rendering potential orbits unusable for further development - economic or military. These kinds of tests do have an impact.

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:40 am

    GarryB wrote:What they ignore is that Russia was happy to sign agreements banning weapons in space and the US refused and are working on their own systems.
    I realize I have been talking about the technical aspect of this test, however there probably is also a political message embedded. Maybe Kremlin is sending out a message to the U.S that A-SAT is a serious matter and the U.S should re consider its decision to pull out from treaties that ban such tests.

    GarryB wrote:Would be interesting to see if they could launch something that cleaned up some of the debris or reduced the fragments further to make them less dangerous...
    How will Russia clean up the debris?
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:33 pm

    The orbit of the american satellite was lowered because the ASAT system used can´t hit anything that flies higher.

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    Post  jhelb Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:21 pm

    This is a good decision taken by the Russian Ministry of Defence to test their A-SAT weapon. Russia was always against the militarization of space but with arch enemies like USA and dodgy nations like India developing such capabilities Russia was left with no other choice.

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    Post  thegopnik Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:33 pm

    only thing annoying about this is in western and social media is muhhh kesler effect.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:36 pm

    It´s a ground based system. Weaponizing of space is bringing real weapons into space = satellites with missiles. At least it was this way. The americans moved the goalpost, again.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:26 am

    If they are going to have such weapons, and the US is forcing their hands in this, then they have to test them.... getting all bitchy and flustered that it creates a mess... well sign a deal to ban such things otherwise STFU.

    The Russians track an enormous number of objects in orbit from the size of a bus down to paint chip size... this just creates some more.

    Part of the issue is ignorance.

    If you have something in orbit and you put a bomb on board and set off that bomb and explode it into a million pieces those pieces are not going to scatter over thousands of square kilometres destroying everything in their path.

    Assuming a spherical explosion the stuff blown up and blown down wont stay up or down because it is moving at the same horizontal speed it was moving before so it will all return to its original orbital position roughly because that is the orbital height of something moving that fast.

    Things blown forwards in the orbit or backwards in the orbit will be sped up or slowed down which means they will settle in a slightly higher and slightly lower orbital location so in terms of collision risk the final mass will be spread out at bit but the area of safety around an object in orbit where other things can safely be placed on different orbits wont change a whole lot.

    It is like going to a rubbish dump and throwing a glass bottle onto a pile... if it breaks then the area of danger of broken glass is bigger than the area the original bottle occupied but either way you don't go walking in bare feet there in either case.

    Americans are whiny bitches and will not want agreements or limitations on their ability to exploit new technologies... when they have or think they have the advantage like murder bot drone or access or control of space.

    How will Russia clean up the debris?

    They are developing a nuclear powered space tug which could be useful for operating in orbit collecting up no longer functioning satellites and space junk... the valuable stuff it could capture and deliver to say their space station for being returned to earth, but debris and junk could also be collected and used as propulsion material or just fired back into the atmosphere to burn up on reentry.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:52 am

    I can't find the information but it seems to me that the satellite may have been in an orbit where the debris would lose altitude
    over time. The lower end of LEO has enough "atmospheric" drag that things deorbit over time.

    The yanquis want to weaponize LEO and I expect them to try to use some "environmentalism" fig leaf. They will bleat about
    the need to keep LEO clean. The same old shtick as we see in the Arctic. The evil of the west is always wrapped in the
    pretense of good.

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:48 am

    Hole wrote:The orbit of the american satellite was lowered because the ASAT system used can´t hit anything that flies higher.

    The US tested their ship-based ASAT direct-attack on satellite that failed, was stuck in LEO, and whose tanks were still full of hydrazine. They justified the shoot-down as an "environmental protection" act (to stop this "poisonous cargo" from landing on the heads of newborn babies & innocent school children...) , and the corrupt MSM boosted this claim, cuz the Murkans are so good and honest and clean and couldn't possibly be fucking lying about their true insidious motives...

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:19 am

    GarryB wrote:Americans are whiny bitches and will not want agreements or limitations on their ability to exploit new technologies... when they have or think they have the advantage like murder bot drone or access or control of space.
    The U.S is now developing a new space weapon in the guise of saving humanity. They are planning to change the course of an asteroid. In this way they will get to hit their adversary with a weapon 100x more powerful than a thermonuclear bomb and then pretend it was just a natural disaster. So no one can blame the U.S for the attack.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFHce6TXVTQ
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:13 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Americans are whiny bitches and will not want agreements or limitations on their ability to exploit new technologies... when they have or think they have the advantage like murder bot drone or access or control of space.
    The U.S is now developing a new space weapon in the guise of saving humanity. They are planning to change the course of an asteroid. In this way they will get to hit their adversary with a weapon 100x more powerful than a thermonuclear bomb and then pretend it was just a natural disaster. So no one can blame the U.S for the attack.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFHce6TXVTQ

    The Russian developments in nuclear spacecraft would afford them a great advantage in this field, it would be foolish of the pindos to try such a thing.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:39 am

    Sounds really clever in theory but orbits and the atmosphere are not fixed and perfectly stable and 1,000 different things can effect how it comes in.

    Without knowing the exact mass or balance of the object they are using as a weapon it could just as easily come in late and land on Europe instead...

    Look at the wildly variable speculations about where satellites that are going to reenter and indeed where Mir would reenter... the closest they could get in terms of accuracy was "somewhere in the south west pacific ocean"...

    With such a level of inaccuracy the object could just as easily land in the arctic ocean and flood norway and iceland, or land on India or Asia or Europe for that matter.

    I believe Musk described AI as summoning a demon... I would say that accurately describes trying to control the weather or space impacts.

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    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:33 pm

    In addition to the media effect, the tests may have other consequences. So, we must remember that the downed satellite had an orbital inclination exceeding 82 degrees. This is a near-polar orbit that allows you to observe the Arctic region of our planet. Some of the satellite's debris has undoubtedly moved into an elliptical orbit and will burn up in the atmosphere in the coming weeks. But some of the debris will remain in orbit, organizing an elongated cloud, the exact spatial dimensions of which and the exact parameters of the orbital motion are known only to the Russian Defense Ministry, since only they have accurate data on the power of the interceptor missile warhead and could simulate with sufficient accuracy the scattering of satellite fragments and the warhead during detonation. So now this particular orbit and a number of neighboring ones are closed from anyone wishing to place their spy satellite there... except Russia, which knows exactly about the parameters of a safe orbit at these altitudes and this inclination.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:07 am

    Would be a very complex problem though... we are talking about a mixture of the debris of the satellite itself as well as the debris of the missile impactor which likely had a collision course and enormous closing speed rather than a catch up from behind boom like intercept.

    But if the US does not want to ban such things then we are going to have to learn to deal with the consequences of both these sorts of things being tested, but also being used for real...

    The tracking capacity of Russia is excellent, so their ability to track the residue is not really in question and many Russian satellites had eliptical orbits so close approaches to the atmosphere and of course the variable nature of the extent of the atmosphere means material will degrade and be destroyed in reentry... but nothing will be perfectly cleaned up until they start taking the issue of space clutter seriously...

    There are some very large objects that were parked in very high orbits like nuclear reactors that will need to be dealt with at some stage and quite a bit of material is in one piece which makes it much easier to deal with... cover it in explosive charges or take it to pieces in place and then accelerate those pieces in a very steep dive towards earth will burn up most materials easily enough but some materials might need to be launched somewhere else, or returned to earth for destruction or reprocessing.

    Some reactor cores could probably be reprocessed and reused and materials recovered, but then anything not stable they could launch towards the sun for instance...

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    Post  Kiko Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:09 am


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