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    Il-20 Military Aircraft Shot Down During Israeli air strikes (2018)

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:52 am

    Why Russia can't blame Israel over its aircraft loss in Syria
    Stinky American spin! The US is using Israel as a cat's paw in Syria or at least is turning the blind eye on it, to attack non-Iranian related sites as well. 1/2 measures won't work there; they need to take over all AD, declare a no-fly zone over gov. controlled areas to all except themselves + Syrians, & enforce it. Maybe Russia could launch a few Calibr CMs to the Negev desert near Dimona nuclear site to make a point not to mess with it!
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:44 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:Is it time to send the Syrians the S-300 yet, especially after this mess.

    So they could shoot down friendly aircraft over Black Sea?

    Close the airspace for IDF and let Iranians do "import" in Syria for a year (not that they deserved it but that's what would piss off Israelis)


    Nah, better IFF to avoid this sh%t.

    Good idea, lets do both.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:57 am

    Is it time to send the Syrians the S-300 yet, especially after this mess.

    I rather suspect one of the reactions will be to boost Syrian air defence capability and fully integrate Russian air defence capability with that system so they get a much better idea of what is operating where and who is who.

    I also expect Israel will be told in no uncertain terms that the risk to Russian forces means that any Israeli attack in Syria had better have more than one minute warning or Russian forces will actively stop it...

    Russia wont bomb Israel but they can certainly shoot down Israeli aircraft involved in attacking targets in Syria... that is called self defence...

    Hinting that an influx of Iranian forces into Syria to make up for losses inflicted by Israel might be a good move too... making their aggressive actions in Syria seem counter productive from their perspective...
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:26 pm

    Give the Iranians and Hezbollah some air defence.

    Nazinjahoo will pay a price for this. He knows it. The only thing he doesn´t know is where and when. And how much.
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:29 pm

    Get the reality check, Russia isn't strong enough to bring Iran to Syria and give them S-300. What they can do, is reestablishment of Assad's rule, as long as they in return pay a price in form of respecting relevant interests - help Turkey defeat Kurdish nationalism, help Israel drive Iran out of Syrian border region etc.

    But for establishment of anti-Saudi-Israeli axis Turkey-Syria-Iraq-Iran (-Lebanon) they don't have anough leverage. Dividing ME will push Israel further into US hands. It may hurt relations between Russia and pro-Saudi Egypt and Jordan. It's a recipe for second Syrian civil war. Establishing dialog as an alternative to isolationism, that is being persued by US, that has given up after years of trying to bring peace to ME, is perfect way to make Russia new credible ME policymaker with a vision and ability to make it reality.

    In practice this means that Israel is a partner and not an opponent. Just remember how good strategists the Russians were when they didn't get too angry at Turkey after they shot down Russian Su-24. They can now together act against pro-Kurdish US.

    So Russian reaction (henceforth giving planes an escort) was a very good step on a way to getting a long-run strong pro-Russian Syria, that not only talks to their neighbours and respects their interests, but also has influence over them. Just imagine gradually driving Lebanon into Russian hands, or even driving Turkey out of NATO.

    It's about bigger things than an old plane.

    russia
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:59 pm

    The hell are you going on about?
    The S-300s could be deployed right now if needed, it's simply being used as a negotiating card at the moment.

    The notion that Israel is somehow gonna leave "U.S hands" is absolutely hilarious, if not out-right delusional.

    Turkey isn't gonna leave NATO, it's the only thing protecting them from Uncle global police, Syria is about as pro-Russia as it gets, not sure why anyone wants Lebanon.

    The word optimistic is an understatement here, it's not gonna happen. Rolling Eyes
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:33 pm

    Seeing as how a lot of S-300P, PS and PSU are being replaced by S-400 in Russia, they can easily move those S-300P's to Syria. They can also give up a lot of older jets (older MiG-29's and Su-27's that still fly) off to Syria/Iran for their airforce. Having Syrian Su-27's with even basic modifications would go very far for them and for Russia in terms of Syria's air defense.

    Why they don't do it? Cause some people are too busy kissing Jewish arse.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:11 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Seeing as how a lot of S-300P, PS and PSU are being replaced by S-400 in Russia, they can easily move those S-300P's to Syria.  They can also give up a lot of older jets (older MiG-29's and Su-27's that still fly) off to Syria/Iran for their airforce.  Having Syrian Su-27's with even basic modifications would go very far for them and for Russia in terms of Syria's air defense.

    Why they don't do it? Cause some people are too busy kissing Jewish arse.

    Without good training it's useless. Syrian have lost many pilots during the war. They never operated s-300 so they will need at least 2 years of intense training and still they will not be as good as israeli who fly their f-16/15 since many years. Neither they have the money for that. Russia is already spending huge ammount for its operation, I don't think they will spend more to give syrian hardwares and training for free.

    Another thing, Israeli will try to destroy those assests and if they succeed, russian weapons will suffer bad image again. I don't think those guys from militaro-industries want that ...
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:08 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Seeing as how a lot of S-300P, PS and PSU are being replaced by S-400 in Russia, they can easily move those S-300P's to Syria.  They can also give up a lot of older jets (older MiG-29's and Su-27's that still fly) off to Syria/Iran for their airforce.  Having Syrian Su-27's with even basic modifications would go very far for them and for Russia in terms of Syria's air defense.

    They didnt because of Israel "special relations" . there is huge pressure internally and externally due to wold zio-tycoons
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:13 pm

    yeah, doesn't matter. People rose up and hung the elite in the past. People are seriously pissed off this recent affairs, so if Putin DID do something, he would have support of the people. So those sweaty fat jews can cry all they want but they will stay quiet to continue to be let gaining their shekels or they would end up on the chopping block too.

    So stop making that shit excuse already.
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    Post  Hole on Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:51 pm

    Isos has a point with the training issue.

    Lebanon is already half in the russian camp. Hezbollah and the christians, including the president, are more or less pro-russian.

    Iran ha a few home-made air defence systems. The regime in Israel is attacking mostly them so they should bring them to Syria. Even if they are not as good as russian ones, they should at least try to shoot down some enemy planes.

    By the way… RIP to the killed russian soldiers. cry
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:23 pm

    Hole wrote:Isos has a point with the training issue.

    Lebanon is already half in the Russian camp. Hezbollah and the Christians, including the president, are more or less pro-Russian.

    Technically Russia could provide both training and old Soviet AAD systems. Same as they did with T-64/T-72 tanks. But so far didn't do it because of Israel. I hope now rules of game change. Little hope bu tstill.

    Putin is not somebody acts on emotions. He will first ten time think and calculate decision-effect strategy, I only hope for sake of Russian soldiers they have right to shoot Israelis in self defense now. After IDF send some "only true data" to Russia, Peskov answered: Putin relies only on Russian MoD data.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:50 pm

    If you look carefully at what Putin actually said, in combination with his generals, it is pretty much the same as with the Turkish shootdown... changes will be made to prevent it happening in the future and that the purpose is to protect Russian personnel... not protect Assad.

    This is really not anything to do with Assad... he could step on a landmine for all Putin cares... what Putin is interested in is a stable and secure Syria... that does not require an Assad, but the jokers the US and Israel are supporting are even less able to provide a stable Syria... they offer Libyan chaos that the west can take advantage of because one side will be pumping oil to pay for things...

    Another thing, Israeli will try to destroy those assests and if they succeed, russian weapons will suffer bad image again. I don't think those guys from militaro-industries want that ...

    Weapons get their image from their performance in real war... for decades western tanks were super tanks that nothing could penetrate just because they never saw real war against a well supplied enemy with modern weapons... if S-300 is shit then it is in Russian interests to find out... and lessons from combat against Israel would be useful in making S-400 better.

    It's about bigger things than an old plane.

    Hard to get men to fight for you when they think they are just pawns in a chess game... the safety of Russian service personnel is probably higher up in Putins thoughts than making Israel happy... Israel jumped through hoops to be good to the US after they attacked the USS Liberty... politicians got lots of funding from Jewish sources, secret Soviet equipment that had been captured was passed on to the US and likely a lot of other useful bits of information was also passed on no doubt.


    It would be excellent if Russia could get Israel on side, but not if they are going to keep attacking Syria like this, and risking Russian troops in the process.

    So Russian reaction (henceforth giving planes an escort) was a very good step on a way to getting a long-run strong pro-Russian Syria, that not only talks to their neighbours and respects their interests, but also has influence over them. Just imagine gradually driving Lebanon into Russian hands, or even driving Turkey out of NATO.

    The difference is that Turkey sees the PKK as their enemy and their opposition to Assad was not set in stone... with the US and Israel, their enemy is Iran and Russia and they will help ISIS or anyone else that can fight them, so there is no middle ground... even if Russia was in the position to do so I doubt they would remove Iran from Syria, so the chances of compromises with Israel or the US are probably zero anyway.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:44 am

    Could Israel prove its innocence in death of IL-20?
    I don't think that Russia would tolerate amateurs in Syrian AD operating Soviet supplied SAMs with her planes there. Even if it was possible to randomly fire them, they don't have so many to do so. It's not a cheaper AAA!
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:44 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Could Israel prove its innocence in death of IL-20?
    I don't think that Russia would tolerate amateurs in Syrian AD operating Soviet supplied SAMs with her planes there. Even if it was possible to randomly fire them, they don't have so many to do so. It's not a cheaper AAA!

    I dont think Russia will tolerate deliberate Israeli actions agains Russian pilots. Regardless of zionist lies - the fact is their F-16 were using Il-20 as a target for Syrian AAD. It was obvious that old missile will choose bigger plane and there war no way they can control it.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:59 pm

    The Ministry of Defense will present a per-minute chronology of the Il-20 disaster

    MOSCOW, September 22 (Itar-Tass) - RIA Novosti. The Ministry of Defense will publish on September 23 detailed information about all the circumstances of the crash of the Russian Il-20 aircraft off the coast of Syria.

    The Office promises to present a perpetual chronology of the tragedy with objective data of radar systems for displaying information about the air situation in Syria on September 17 and the actions of Israeli aviation in the area of ​​the plane crash.

    Earlier, a delegation of the Israeli military led by Air Force Commander Amikam Norkin visited Moscow. They handed over their data to the Russian colleagues on the death of the IL-20, as well as information on "Iran's attempts to strengthen itself in Syria and supply strategic weapons to Hezbollah."

    The Russian reconnaissance aircraft Il-20 was shot down near the coast of Syria by a missile from the S-200 anti-aircraft missile system belonging to the Syrian air defense forces, and fell into the sea 27 kilometers from the city of Baniyas. Fifteen Russian servicemen were killed.

    At the same time, four Israeli F-16s attacked Syrian targets in the province of Latakia. According to the Ministry of Defense, Israeli pilots covered themselves with Russian aircraft and substituted it for Syrian air defense. The Defense Ministry believes that Israeli aircraft deliberately created a dangerous situation, and regard these actions of Israel as hostile. The military department reserved the right to an adequate response.
    President Vladimir Putin stressed that Russia will take retaliatory actions that will "notice everything." At the same time, he noted that the operations of the Israeli Air Force are being undertaken in violation of Syria's sovereignty, and in the case of the Il-20, Russian-Israeli agreements on the prevention of dangerous incidents were not observed.

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, for his part, expressed his condolences in connection with the death of Russian servicemen and laid the blame for the plane crash on Syria.

    Syrian leader Bashar Assad, in turn, sent a telegram to Moscow with condolences, which states that the death of the Russian military was the result of Israel's "arrogance and revelry."


    https://ria.ru/syria/20180922/1529136868.html?referrer_block=index_main_2


    autch, truth is the worst enemy of zionism.





    Putin after the terrorist attack in Iran confirmed Rouhani's readiness to fight terrorism together
    According to the latest information, at least 24 people became victims of the terrorist attack

    https://tass.ru/politika/5593369

    MOSCOW, September 22. / TASS /. Russian President Vladimir Putin expressed his condolences to the Iranian colleague Hassan Roukhani in connection with the terrorist attack at the military parade in the city of Ahvaz and confirmed his readiness to step up cooperation with Iran in the fight against terrorism. The text of the telegram of the Russian leader was published on Saturday on the Kremlin's website .

    "Dear Mr. President, Please accept our deepest condolences in connection with the tragic consequences of the terrorist attack in the city of Ahvaz <...> The incident once again reminds us of the need for an uncompromising fight against terrorism in all its manifestations." I would like to reaffirm my readiness for further intensification of cooperation with Iranian partners in confronting this evil, "the telegram reads.

    The President of the Russian Federation also conveyed the words of sympathy to the relatives and friends of the victims and the wishes for the speedy recovery of the wounded.

    The attack Ahvaz, according to recent data, killed at least 24 people were killed and 53 were injured. The fire on people was opened by four people in military uniform, who were behind the podium. The shooting lasted ten minutes. Two sections of the attack were liquidated, two others were detained.

    According to the representative of the Corps of "guards of the Islamic Revolution" (an elite unit of the armed forces of Iran), the target of the terrorists were both military personnel and civilians who were invited to the event.



    Fighting with terrorism? so quick to fight Israel? lol1 lol1 lol1

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:27 pm

    The Ministry of Defense will present a per-minute chronology of the Il-20 disaster

    The meeting made the russian even more angry ...
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:44 pm

    Isos wrote:
    The Ministry of Defense will present a per-minute chronology of the Il-20 disaster

    The meeting made the russian even more angry ...
    Strange, the Jerusalem Post reported that the Russians had accepted their view and all was good.

    Perhaps there was another meeting that day. /sarc
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    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:13 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    The Ministry of Defense will present a per-minute chronology of the Il-20 disaster

    The meeting made the russian even more angry ...
    Strange, the Jerusalem Post reported that the Russians had accepted their view and all was good.

    Perhaps there was another meeting that day. /sarc

    I don't think russian military give a fuck about their explainations. They were there they know what happened. All those meetings are politics nothing more.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:14 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Strange, the Jerusalem Post reported that the Russians had accepted their view and all was good.

    Perhaps there was another meeting that day. /sarc

    they saidn that Syrians hosted weapons for Hamas. So they had to strike. Their AF commander didnt answer why they dd this in time when Russian plans was about to land. Idodnt see for a longtime Putin so pissed.





    Isos wrote:
    I don't think russian military give a fuck about their explainations. They were there they know what happened. All those meetings are politics nothing more.

    lets wait for Russian MoD presentation...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:32 pm

    Perhaps they should deploy their famous MiG-25/-31s to Iran, Iraq, Turkey or Syria itself to keep the wolves away!
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:49 pm


    lets wait for Russian MoD presentation...

    Thatq won't change their view about the incident. Putin managed to calm them. But they didn't change their mind.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:15 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Perhaps they should deploy their famous MiG-25/-31s to Iran, Iraq, Turkey or Syria itself to keep the wolves away!

    very unlikely, Im sure Russia after 2020 start selling Su or MiG fighters t Iran.  But for now I hipe more restrictions in Syria will be for Israeli  air force




    Isos wrote:

    lets wait for Russian MoD presentation...
    Thatq won't change their view about the incident. Putin managed to calm them. But they didn't change their mind.

    true Putin does not make decisions on emotional basis. But this doesn't mean he leaves "special partnership with zionists" the way it is now.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:20 am

    The situation was very similar to a home invasion... the Israelis broke in and destroyed some stuff, while the home owner opened fire in an attempt to stop the attack and punish the attacker... and shot the milkman.

    Do you blame the homeowner for the death of the milkman... if there was no home invasion no shots would have been fired and the milkman would have been perfectly safe.

    The criminal here is the Israelis and the Russian military know it... attempts to pass blame to the Syrians or Hamas or the Salvation Army just don't stack up.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:19 pm

    The video is now linked in the main Russia/Syria thread.

    The MoD are clearly very very very pissed about the way Russia gets repaid after playing nice guy for years.

    The only comment I'll make here, as it really belongs in that other thread, is that the F-16s didn't run for home after releasing the bombs, if they had its likely the Il-20 would never have been hit. The Russians think that either they were going to make a second strike or that they deliberately stayed to make the Il-20 a nice juicy radar blip SAM target.

    Typical og that tribe, too clever by half.

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