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    Il-20 Military Aircraft Shot Down During Israeli air strikes (2018)

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:32 pm

    JohninMK wrote:The video is now linked in the main Russia/Syria thread.
    .

    It is noted that after four minutes the mark of the Russian aircraft disappeared from the radar.

    Misleading
    The military department said that they have audio recordings of warnings from the Israeli Air Force about the air strike in Syria in Russian.

    It is noted that Israel notified Russia of the impending air strike at the time of the attack, and not in advance. Thus, Tel Aviv has violated agreements with Moscow from 2015 on the prevention of incidents in the air, Konashenkov said.


    At the same time, Israel did not inform Russia about the location of its F-16 fighters.

    In addition, Moscow was misled about the area of ​​striking Syria.

    Thus, the representative of the headquarters of the Air Force of Israel reported that the targets of the attack are in the north of the Arab Republic.

    "As you can see on the map, Israeli air force strikes were not applied in the northern part of Syria, but in the area of ​​Latakia, which is the western province, and the city of Latakia is located on the west coast of the country," the Defense Ministry spokesman added.

    Immediately after the warning, the commander of the Il-20, located in the north of Syria, was instructed to leave the area of ​​the task to the south and return to the base.

    "The misleading of the Israeli officer about the areas of strikes by fighters did not allow the Russian Il-20 to be taken to a safe area," Konashenkov said.


    РИА Новости https://ria.ru/world/20180923/1529155882.html



    That's how zonists understand "special relations" , we kill you you pay us money. Goyim . Just goyim.


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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:28 pm


    1) Israelis told Russia that they are attacking targets in idlib but they struck targets in Latakia instead. Il-20 which was over Idlib at the time circled back to Latakia to land and ended up in middle of the shootout.

    2) Some dumbass Israeli pilot got locked on by AA missiles and instead of ejecting he decided to use Il-20 as meat shield because he didn't want to lose the plane (big deal for pilots apparently) and he thought other kids at the airbase will think it was kewl. He didn't take into account political s**tstorm it would create and IDF has too big of an ego to admit that one of their own golden boys is complete retard.

    Israelis could have mitigated this mess by simply benching that idiot, they wouldn't​ even need to reveal his identity or anything, just kick him behind desk. But like I said, ego.
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    Post  Isos on Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:55 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    1) Israelis told Russia that they are attacking targets in idlib but they struck targets in Latakia instead. Il-20 which was over Idlib at the time circled back to Latakia to land and ended up in middle of the shootout.

    2) Some dumbass Israeli pilot got locked on by AA missiles and instead of ejecting he decided to use Il-20 as meat shield because he didn't want to lose the plane (big deal for pilots apparently) and he thought other kids at the airbase will think it was kewl. He didn't take into account political s**tstorm it would create and IDF has too big of an ego to admit that one of their own golden boys is complete retard.

    Israelis could have mitigated this mess by simply benching that idiot, they wouldn't​ even need to reveal his identity or anything, just kick him behind desk. But like I said, ego.

    Israeli f-16 have nice RWR. He probably knew the ditance of the s-200. First action that israeli pilots would do against a lock from a surface to air missile is launch chaffs and reduce its altitude. That's the best tactic specially if they are returning home, no enemy in the air to use advantage over low flying f-16 and no need to save fuel as the distance between Latakia and israel is really small.

    Moreover Israeli pilots are very well trained so they know what to do when locked on. So this one chosed to deliberatly use the il-20 as a shield. His choice or IAF choice is to be determined but it seem a very well planed mission to at least put in danger the Il-20 and make the relation between russian and syria bad.

    Russian fault is that they don't send more fighter for CAP missions like mig-29 SMT or tell to syrian to deploy their migs. If there was one or two syrian mig-29 in the air they could have fired r-77 to oblige them to go back or fly higher to make air defence work easier.


    Last edited by Isos on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:12 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : "Surface to air" instead of "air to air")
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:33 pm

    A similar condition was created in 1983 by the KAL007 incident in the Soviet FE. Then, IRBMs & CMs were deployed in W. Europe & the Cold War continued till 1989.
    But the current crisis in the ME is worse, since the Russian military plane is lost with 15 men. To maintain his authority in Russia, Putin must put Israel in its place.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:39 pm

    I wonder what Putin will do. Cannot let RuAF just bomb Israelis bounce bounce bounce but perhaps restricting their movement over Syria with better equipped Assad AAD system...


    The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation justified why Israel is responsible for the death of the Russian Il-20 off the coast of Syria

    http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=0&nid=491450

    KonashenkovMoscow. 23 September. INTERFAX-AVN - The Russian Defense Ministry presented the minute-by-minute chronology of the Il-20 crash in Syria and completely laid the blame for the wreck of the Russian airplane on the Israeli Air Force.
    "We believe that the blame for the tragedy with the Russian Il-20 aircraft lies entirely with the Israeli air force and those who took a decision on this kind of activity," said Igor Konashenkov, spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry, at a briefing on Sunday.
    According to him, the actions of the Israeli Air Force, committed against the Russian Il-20, "go beyond the civilized construction of relations."
    "The military leadership of Israel either does not appreciate the level of relations with Russia, or does not control individual commands and commanders who understood that their actions lead to tragedy," I.Konashenkov emphasized.

    RUSSIAN ALERT TO TAKE UP ITS OPERATION ISRAELI SIDE TO INFRINGEMENT AGREEMENTS DID NOT TWENTY TIME, AND SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THE BEGINNING OF IMPACT.
    According to the Russian Defense Ministry, from 20:31 on September 17 the Russian Il-20 reconnaissance aircraft with 15 servicemen on board tracked the situation in the Idlib de-escalation zone. At that time, a group of four F-16 fighters flew from the territory of Israel to launch a surprise strike against Syria's industrial facilities. Israeli fighters, flying over the neutral waters of the Mediterranean Sea, occupied a patrol area 90 km west of Latakia.
    At 21:39 a representative of the Israeli Air Force command through the deconflexing channel notified the command of the Russian group of troops in Syria about the upcoming air strike in northern Syria. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation claims that it has a confirmatory audio recording of this conversation, which was conducted in Russian.
    In one minute, at 21:40, four Israeli F-16s attacked the controlled GBU-39 airbuses on industrial targets - but not in northern Syria, but in Latakia province, located in the western part of the country.
    "Thus, the Israeli side informed the Russian side of the operation of its operation, in violation of the existing agreements, not in time but at the same time as the attacks began." These actions are a direct violation of the Russian-Israeli agreements of 2015 to prevent incidents between our armed forces in the Syrian direction, in the framework of the joint working group, "I.Konashenkov said.


    THE ISRAELI SIDE INVITED THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION WITH REGARD TO THE DISTRICT OF THE IMPACT OF IMPACT FROM THE FIGHTERS THAT HAS NOT ALLOWED TO LEAD THE IL-20 TO THE SAFE AREA.
    According to him, the commander of the Russian Il-20, located in northern Syria, was instructed to leave the area of ​​the task to the south and return to the base.
    "The misleading of the Israeli officer about the fighter landing area did not allow the Russian Il-20 to be taken to a safe area, nor was the location of the Israeli F-16s indicated," the official spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry said.
    Since 21:51 Syrian air defense means have begun to repel the Israeli attack and launched anti-aircraft missiles. After the strike, the Israeli planes again occupied the zone of duty in the air 70 kilometers west of the coast of Syria, placing electronic warfare and, probably, preparing for a re-strike.


    OBSERVING THE RUSSIAN IL-20, THE ISRAELI FIGHTERS HAVE HAD THEM FROM THE AAD ROCKET, CONTINUED TO MANEUVER
    At 21:59, one of the Israeli aircraft began a maneuver in the direction of the coast of Syria, approaching the IL-20, who made a landing - this was perceived by the calculations of Syrian air defense for a new attack by Israeli aircraft.
    The Russian Defense Ministry believes that the Israeli pilot could not fail to understand that the effective reflecting surface of the Il-20 is much larger than the similar surface of the F-16, and it is the Russian aircraft that will be the preferred target for the anti-aircraft missile. In addition, the Israelis also knew that the Russian and Syrian armed forces used different systems of "their own" alien identification, and the Syrian radar stations could identify the IL-20 as a group target of Israeli fighters.
    "Observing the Russian Il-20, Israeli fighters covered themselves from anti-aircraft missiles, continuing to maneuver in the area," I.Konashenkov emphasized.
    At 22:03, the Syrian anti-aircraft missile struck a larger and nearer target - an IL-20 aircraft, which at that time made a turn for a landing at Khmeimim and was in the direction of the fire of Syrian air defense means on Israeli aircraft. The commander of the crew reported on the fire on board and the beginning of an emergency decline.
    At 22:07, the Il-20 mark disappeared from the radar screens. At the same time, Israeli planes did not leave their airspace, but stayed in the same area and continued on air until 22:40.

    ACTIONS OF ISRAELIAN FIGHTERS-FIGHTERS SAY OR ABOUT THEIR NON-PROFESSIONALISM, OR AS MINIMUM ABOUT CRITICAL NEGLIGENCE
    At 22:29 the duty officer of the command of the Russian group in Syria informed the Israeli officer at the command post of the Air Force that the Russian aircraft is in distress, therefore it is necessary to withdraw funds from this region , since Russia is using rescue equipment. At 22:40 the F-16 fighter aircraft left the zone.
    "After that, only at 22:53, that is, 50 minutes after the defeat of the Russian Il-20 missile, the operational duty officer of the Air Force Command Center in Israel ranked as a colonel and reported that information about the Il-20 disaster was accepted:" We cleared zone, if assistance is needed, we are ready to help, "said I. Konashenkov
    According to him, these data show that "the actions of Israeli fighter pilots say either about their lack of professionalism, or at least about criminal negligence."
    The official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry noted that the actions of the Israeli Air Force fighter aircraft were carried out in the area of ​​the approaches to the airfield at Khmeimim, not only military but also civilian passenger aircraft.
    "Thus, the Israeli fighters created a direct threat to any passenger and transport aircraft that could be there at that time and become victims of the adventurism of the Israeli military," I.Konashenkov emphasized.

    THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION DOES NOT INFECT ANY AGREEMENT WITH ISRAEL ON INTERACTION IN SYRIA
    He added that the Russian Federation has never violated the agreement with Israel and did not use the air defense weapons deployed in Syria, even in spite of the potential threat to the Russian military that Israel created during the air strikes.
    "In the context of constructive Russian-Israeli cooperation in the Syrian direction, it is difficult for us to understand what caused the described actions of Tel Aviv, which is an extremely ungrateful response to everything that the Russian Federation has done for the State of Israel and the Israelis recently," I. Konashenkov.
    He recalled that thanks to Russia's actions after a six-year hiatus, patrolling of the UN peacekeeping contingent of the division of the Golan Heights was organized, which completely eliminated the firing of Israeli territory. Also, consultations were held with Iran, following which all the pro-Iranian formations with heavy weapons were withdrawn from the Golan Heights to a safe distance for Israel - more than 140 kilometers to the east of Syria.
    In addition, at the request of Israel, Russia has repeatedly dismissed concerns about the possible transfer of "sensitive" samples of military products to Syria.

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:48 am

    Like I said before, Putin is not a revenge sort of guy... revenge wont bring back those 15 Russians, and it wont do anything but make things worse.

    Especially the obvious problem is what if you kill only 2-3... do you keep shooting down planes until you get to 15?

    What happens if you get more than 15... can they shoot down another Russian plane?

    Stupid and childish... two things Putin is not.

    Putin will take this as being a problem of air control for Syria and the Russian forces in the area.

    The solution is better tactical situational awareness for Syrian Air Defence and Russian forces, with both being able to see a clear picture of what is happening in and near Syrian air space so they know what is where at all times.

    This will mean Syrian forces will be better able to deal with Israeli attacks from inside and outside Syrian air space... it is not an accident these and previous attacks have been launched from outside Syrian airspace with standoff weapons...

    I suspect the result will be Israel are not going to be able to attack targets in Syria with such impunity in future because the Syrians will be more aware, and also the Russians will be less likely to ignore attacks by Israel near their forces...

    Holding the Israelis accountable for their lies is also important... they said they were attacking the north of Syria, which is clearly a lie.

    They said they gave plenty of warning, which is also a lie... one minute warning would not be considered adequate with two civilian airliners on a collision course, let alone a airliner type in a danger area.

    And thirdly they claimed the Syrians didn't even open fire until after the Israeli aircraft were long gone... also a lie.

    So I suspect those monitoring Israeli aircraft activity will call them on it when planes are heading to the west instead of the promised north, and if the Israeli aircraft are gone then there will be no Israeli aircraft there to shoot down with S-400 or S-300V4... but rather than actually shoot them down... demand they leave the area...
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:33 am

    GarryB wrote:Like I said before, Putin is not a revenge sort of guy... revenge wont bring back those 15 Russians, and it wont do anything but make things worse.

    Especially the obvious problem is what if you kill only 2-3... do you keep shooting down planes until you get to 15?

    What happens if you get more than 15... can they shoot down another Russian plane?

    Stupid and childish... two things Putin is not.

    .

    from chronology Il-20 emergency land (burning?) Israeli pilots were cruising over place of catastrophy ~30 minutes?! WTF and yes Israel begged Putin not to deliver S-300 to Syria before...
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:28 pm

    It's getting more interesting every day...


    Russia will give Syria a S-300 complex within two weeks


    https://ria.ru/syria/20180924/1529201372.html?referrer_block=index_main_3


    Il-20 Military Aircraft Shot Down During Israeli air strikes (2018) - Page 3 Pic_1537279421


    MOSCOW, September 24 (Itar-Tass) - RIA Novosti. Russia will give Syria a modern S-300 air defense complex within two weeks, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said.
    h of the IL-20 measures will cool "hotheads," said Shoigu
    "It is capable of intercepting air attack means over a range of more than 250 kilometers and simultaneously hitting several air targets," he said.
    According to Shoigu, the S-300 will significantly strengthen the combat capabilities of Syrian air defense.

    The minister recalled that Russia in 2013 suspended supplies to Damascus of the S-300 complex, but now the situation has changed, and not through Moscow's fault.

    In addition, Russia will supply Syria with modern automated control systems for air defense command posts.

    "This will ensure the centralized management of all Syrian air defense forces and forces, monitoring of the air situation and prompt delivery of target designations.The main thing will be to ensure the identification of all Russian aircraft by Syrian air defense means," Shoigu stressed.


    Russia is forced to respond to Israeli actions in Syria, Shoigu said.
    He also said that Russia would suppress satellite navigation, on-board radar systems and the communications of combat aircraft attacking objects on the territory of the country in the Mediterranean Sea adjacent to Syria.
    The head of the Defense Ministry noted that Moscow is compelled to take adequate response measures because of Israel's actions in order to strengthen the security of the Russian military.

    Shoigu expressed his confidence that the actions taken by Russia "will cool" the hotheads "and keep from rash actions."

    "Otherwise, we will have to respond in accordance with the current situation," the minister concluded.

    The Kremlin stressed that the delivery of Syria S-300 is not directed against third countries, but is caused only by the desire to protect the Russian military in this country.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:42 am

    It is important to keep in mind that this is to ensure the Syrians can control their air space better... this is not to let the Syrians take on the Israeli or any other air force.

    I would expect with new missiles and new combat management systems the Syrians will have a much better awareness of what is in their airspace and what is entering or leaving their air space.

    I think it will mean Israeli aircraft will no longer get anywhere near Syrian or Lebanese airspace with manned aircraft, but they might try to keep using drones and cruise and other standoff missiles.

    This move will also effect other air forces entering Syrian airspace like Turkey and the FUKUS...

    They mentioned they will jam with Russian systems GPS and nav systems and the radars of anything entering Syrian airspace from the Med...

    All of this could develop into Syria creating its own no fly zone over occupied parts of its territory down the road if necessary, but it means the Syrians will have information about IFF status of objects in its air space and will be much less likely to shoot down Russian aircraft... so primary mission accomplished.

    A secondary factor in this however is that Syria will be much better able to defend its own airspace... and large parts of the airspace in countries nearby... if they want... I suspect Russia will remind Syria why they have this capability and suggest if misused it could be taken away again too.

    I rather suspect there will be more than just S-300... they will need Pantsir to support these systems too, while the battle management support systems will actually make it an IADS.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:12 am

    GarryB wrote:It is important to keep in mind that this is to ensure the Syrians can control their air space better... this is not to let the Syrians take on the Israeli or any other air force.

    I would expect with new missiles and new combat management systems the Syrians will have a much better awareness of what is in their airspace and what is entering or leaving their air space.

    I think it will mean Israeli aircraft will no longer get anywhere near Syrian or Lebanese airspace with manned aircraft, but they might try to keep using drones and cruise and other standoff missiles.

    1) 2 regiments are to be sent.
    One S-400 regiment has 32 launchers. Not sure how many S-300 tho.
    I dont think they forgot about shorads there. But work on modernization not only equipment but also control system to have on centralized awareness &control is a quantum leap for Syrians.

    2) Int; reaction

    Israeli doublethink in full glory: Newspaper A (Russian edition): military IDF expert say hes sorry for Russians. Russians can loose all prestige and fame of their weapons since IDF wont be affected whatsoever.

    Same time special Israeli envoy goes to Mod convincing that S-300 aing gonna happen because its danger for peace loving zionists. Then Natanyahu repeats same mantra.

    Pompoe & Bolton in dolby surround: S-300 is grave error of Russians and seriously escalates situation (which reads: we cannot kill Syrians w/o being b[punished)



    Damn Ruskies russia russia russia





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    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:12 am

    Yes... the cold war mantra... the Russians are at the same time no threat and their stuff is crap and the all powerful Israeli forces won't even be effected, but they are escalating things beyond reason by introducing S-300s, which is helping terrorism and bad people everywhere...
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:44 am

    GarryB wrote:which is helping terrorism and bad people everywhere...

    with extreme concentration thereof on Wall Street Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:32 am

    NATO members Greece & Turkey have & chosen S-300 & S-400 respectively. https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201807121066287468-turkey-us-russia-s-400-systems/
    So did India & China. Call it "missile diplomacy"!
    Iran Plans to Supply Syria With Its Own Jets, S-300 Analogues
    The S-400 covers most of Syria, Lebanon, NE. Med. Sea, & ~1/2 of Israel:Il-20 Military Aircraft Shot Down During Israeli air strikes (2018) - Page 3 _86976164_f6a279f5-8fe8-4366-8447-276772cd3808
    They could even shoot down Israeli planes on their way back to base should the Syrians fail to do that on approaches to, or over Syria.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:25 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:NATO members Greece & Turkey have & chosen S-300 & S-400 respectively. https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201807121066287468-turkey-us-russia-s-400-systems/
    So did India & China. Call it "missile diplomacy"!
    Iran Plans to Supply Syria With Its Own Jets, S-300 Analogues
    The S-400 covers most of Syria, Lebanon, NE. Med. Sea, & ~1/2 of Israel:Il-20 Military Aircraft Shot Down During Israeli air strikes (2018) - Page 3 _86976164_f6a279f5-8fe8-4366-8447-276772cd3808
    They could even shoot down Israeli planes on their way back to base should the Syrians fail to do that on approaches to, or over Syria.

    The coast is a mountainous area. The israeli are used to fly low there so S-400 isn't a real threat to them, neither is s-300.

    Your map shows range against targets flying very high.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:03 pm

    Isos wrote:

    The coast is a mountainous area. The israeli are used to fly low there so S-400 isn't a real threat to them, neither is s-300.

    Your map shows range against targets flying very high.

    As said this is the sea level coverage.

    We never see the coverage for the S-400 system sited up in the mountains behind Tartous. That will have a very different threat monitoring profile both height and distance at sea level.

    Indeed, we hardly ever see it mentioned that the are 3 RuAF S-300/400 systems live in Syria and have been for a long time.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:18 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    The coast is a mountainous area. The israeli are used to fly low there so S-400 isn't a real threat to them, neither is s-300.

    Your map shows range against targets flying very high.

    As said this is the sea level coverage.

    We never see the coverage for the S-400 system sited up in the mountains behind Tartous. That will have a very different threat monitoring profile both height and distance at sea level.

    Indeed, we hardly ever see it mentioned that the are 3 RuAF S-300/400 systems live in Syria and have been for a long time.

    If they had 2 or 3 naval redut off the coast of Lebanon it would be perfect to ground israeli air force.

    Russia should bring its own buks and pantsirs with 12 mig-29smt in the mountainous area. S-300 are sitting ducks there specially for israeli air force which has plenty of fighters and drones/sat monitoring the area. They should know very well where s-300 are.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:17 pm

    The coast is a mountainous area. The israeli are used to fly low there so S-400 isn't a real threat to them, neither is s-300.
    Your map shows range against targets flying very high.
    Is that's why they couldn't use them against CMs?
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    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:36 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    The coast is a mountainous area. The israeli are used to fly low there so S-400 isn't a real threat to them, neither is s-300.
    Your map shows range against targets flying very high.
    Is that's why they couldn't use them against CMs?

    It's just  harder because the cruise missile will go between mountains. They will have few sec to destroy them if the s-300 is on the missiles way and sees them.

    The cruise missile could pass by 500m from the s-300 but if there is an obstacle between them they can't see it.

    6 or 8 s-300 won't cover all those areas covered by mountains. So they either use the s-300 in the back near the syrian towns and vases to hit the incoming missiles but they will quickly run out of ammo. Or they fill the moutains with SHORADs and mig-29 patrol to deny the airspace to israeli jets and also oblige them to fly high and shot them with s-300 at long distances while mig goes back without the need to fight more.

    If israeli fly low and syrian mig-29 fly high, migs will have the advantage for BVR fight and could just launch r-27 untill there is a hit. So israeli will need to get go higher to match them and they will be high enough for s-300. And they won't be able to launch cruise missiles or guided bombs.

    If syrian try to use s-300 against cruise missile they will run out of ammo very quickly as israeli will probably launch 20 or 30 cruise missiles everytime they attack untill s300 are empty.

    Syria makes tge mistaje of not using its migs against them. And russia doesn't send its own mig-29smt which they don't even know what to do of.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:08 pm

    Actually this is a great fuckup for Isreal. and USA. If S-300 dont matter why prime minister of Jewish State were flying to Moscow? why all that begging/trying to threaten Russia? Why Popmeo/Bolton were so excited they had to say something stupid?



    Isos wrote:

    It's just  harder because the cruise missile will go between mountains. They will have few sec to destroy them if the s-300 is on the missiles way and sees them.


    Those are invincible F16 on S-400 radar. How they could be tracked so easily? I dotn know bu tI'd say f-35 can have a different blinking color lol1 lol1 lol1

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    Assuming that there is only S-300 battery, EW on then missile is unlikely fly on level lower then 100m is tracked form 30kms min (Big Bird). Tomahawk speed is 890km/h thus we have 2 mins of time.  But this aint gonna happen because there is layered defense. fighters in the air and or / AWACS. All AAD nodes are connected in one management network and there is multitude of  means of EW.

    There is also grouping of Russian Navy close to shores which track all Israeli movements and if Russian lives are engendered now the easily can shoot  

    The cruise missile could pass by 500m from the s-300 but if there is an obstacle between them they can't see it.

    Pantsir easily takes iny CM down from 20km


    6 or 8 s-300 won't cover all those areas covered by mountains.

    Russian sources stated 2 regiments. 1 regiment is 32 launchers.  + upgrades of Syrian AAD  + Russian EW so isreali fighters unlike to see much. . None of F-16 or f-35 carriers dare to show up close enough.



    If syrian try to use s-300 against cruise missile they will run out of ammo very quickly as israeli will probably launch 20 or 30 cruise missiles everytime they attack untill s300 are empty.

    So far Pantsirs did great job and Syria alone has like 50 of them. S-300 can be used for CMs but wlil  thier long range is to calm israelis hawks down.  Ammo? 5 years of war and Assad's hardware is much better newer and never out of ammo. Miracles or Syrian Express?




     And russia doesn't send its own mig-29smt which they don't even know what to do of.

    can you rephrase  it please?
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    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:26 pm

    Those are invincible F16 on S-400 radar. How they could be tracked so easily? I dotn know bu tI'd say f-35 can have a different blinking color lol1 lol1 lol1

    Those f-16 were flying high to launch gliding bombs. With cruise missiles they don't need to fly that high and that close.

    Your data for 30km detection range against low flying target is true above the sea. Here we are talking about the s-300 capacities in mountainous area in the south.

    Pantsir easily takes iny CM down from 20km

    That's what i said. They need more short range system for the mountainous area.

    Russian sources stated 2 regiments. 1 regiment is 32 launchers. + upgrades of Syrian AAD + Russian EW so isreali fighters unlike to see much. . None of F-16 or f-35 carriers dare to show up close enough.

    Number of radars matters, not launchers.

    So far Pantsirs did great job and Syria alone has like 50 of them. S-300 can be used for CMs but wlil thier long range is to calm israeli war criminals down. Ammo? 5 years of war and Assads hardware is much better newer and never out of ammo. Miracles or Syrian Express?

    Giving them old stocks of s-200 isn't the same as giving them 250km range missile for s-300.

    can you rephrase it please?

    Russia has plenty of migs that are sitting in russia and not used. They could send some to syria for patroling and if needed engaging potentiel f-16 that would want to launch surprise attack. 3 or 4 smt + all those syrian mig could make a valuable threat to any israeli attack.

    SMT are replace by sukhoi and send in less important zones. So they vould send them in syria.
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:30 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    The coast is a mountainous area. The israeli are used to fly low there so S-400 isn't a real threat to them, neither is s-300.
    Your map shows range against targets flying very high.
    Is that's why they couldn't use them against CMs?

    It's just  harder because the cruise missile will go between mountains. They will have few sec to destroy them if the s-300 is on the missiles way and sees them.

    The cruise missile could pass by 500m from the s-300 but if there is an obstacle between them they can't see it.

    6 or 8 s-300 won't cover all those areas covered by mountains. So they either use the s-300 in the back near the syrian towns and vases to hit the incoming missiles but they will quickly run out of ammo. Or they fill the moutains with SHORADs and mig-29 patrol to deny the airspace to israeli jets and also oblige them to fly high and shot them with s-300 at long distances while mig goes back without the need to fight more.

    If israeli fly low and syrian mig-29 fly high, migs will have the advantage for BVR fight and could just launch r-27 untill there is a hit. So israeli will need to get go higher to match them and they will be high enough for s-300. And they won't be able to launch cruise missiles or guided bombs.

    If syrian try to use s-300 against cruise missile they will run out of ammo very quickly as israeli will probably launch 20 or 30 cruise missiles everytime they attack untill s300 are empty.

    Syria makes tge mistaje of not using its migs against them. And russia doesn't send its own mig-29smt which they don't even know what to do of.

    Cruise missiles don't have active seekers, so using them against a mobile platform like the S-300 is gonna require seriously accurate intelligence, and the S-300 isn't just one system it's multiple modular platforms coordinating with each other, ergo they don't need to be in the same place either.
    This is why the U.S uses SEAD strike force to try and hunt down such systems.
    And considering the hard time these similar Strike forces had hunting down Iraqi Scuds, despite having complete air-superiority, we can expect the hunting of S-300s to be even more difficult.
    And since you cant send a Strike forces in there without getting shot, your outta luck.

    Then again, he Syrians did lose a Pantsir and even a frickin TOR, so let's hope they have 1 or 2 SHORADs around the S-300s at all times.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:48 pm

    A few MiG-31s can also be sent for CM defense.
    Do Israelis even have a large supply of ALCMs? If not, & they want to keep at it, the US will be asked to provide them. The Israeli planes will need to be modified to carry them.
    So, it'll cost them $ &/ loss of face regardless!
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:20 pm

    Russia will deploy electronic warfare systems in Syria to combat high-precision weapons

    According to Vladimir Mikheev, the adviser to the deputy general director of KRET, the system will be able to track aircraft at airfields in Europe or Israel
    MOSCOW, September 28. / Tass /. Russia will deploy electronic warfare systems (EW) in Syria to counter high-precision weapons. The whole EW system will be strengthened in the coming weeks, adviser to the First Deputy Director General of the Radioelectronic Technologies Concern Vladimir Kolesov, Vladimir Mikheev, told TASS.

    "To conventional radar protection systems will be added systems capable of fighting high-precision weapons - guided bombs and rockets, which may be used by the same Israel, who has already announced that he will continue to work on objects in the region," said Mikheev.

    According to him, "additional systems and means will be supplied that block all systems and controls for aviation and ship groupings." “This is a system for suppressing HF and VHF radio communications,” Mikheyev said.

    According to him, EW funds in Syria will be significantly expanded and supplemented in the coming weeks. "The decision has already been made unequivocally, and the minister voiced it. I think within the same timeframe, which is indicated on building up an anti-aircraft missile grouping (delivery of Syria to the S-300 within two weeks - TASS note), deployed in the new positions of the EW system ", - said Mikheev.

    Integration with air defense
    According to Mikheev, the strengthened electronic warfare system will be fully integrated with air defense. "The classic air defense system implies radar and radio reconnaissance, and an anti-aircraft missile system, and a fighter aircraft cover system, and an EW system. All these EW complexes that will be delivered will be fully integrated with the automated control system of the air defense system. Based on This system will create the so-called reconnaissance and interference fire complexes, which completely cover the areas of concentration of our troops from the use on them not only of drones, but also of guided cancers t and airplanes ", - said Mikheyev.

    A representative of KRET also said that "opportunities will be increased to suppress space navigation systems, first of all, this is both Navstar and Galileo, and other systems that can be used in this region."

    As Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said earlier, due to the crash of the Russian Il-20 due to the actions of the Israeli aviation, which had covered the Russian Federation from the Syrian fire, the means of electronic warfare will be strengthened in Syria.
    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5617129


    Isos wrote:
    Those are invincible F16 on S-400 radar. How they could be tracked so easily? I dotn know bu tI'd say f-35 can have a different blinking color lol1 lol1 lol1

    Those f-16 were flying high to launch gliding bombs. With cruise missiles they don't need to fly that high and that close.

    But carriers will be visible. Anyway With EW CMs have to go high, no navigation, no Intel data.







    Pantsir easily takes iny CM down from 20km

    That's what i said. They need more short range system for the mountainous area.

    That's called layered defense  Razz  Razz  Razz




    Russian sources stated 2 regiments. 1 regiment is 32 launchers. + upgrades of Syrian AAD + Russian EW so isreali fighters unlike to see much. . None of F-16 or f-35 carriers dare to show up close enough.

    Number of radars matters, not launchers.

    Their all radars will be in one network managed by Russian management system. This is part of the deal. i wouldn't be surprised if Russians also fed their data to mgmt system.




    So far Pantsirs did great job and Syria alone has like 50 of them. S-300 can be used for CMs but wlil thier long range is to calm israeli war criminals down. Ammo? 5 years of war and Assads hardware is much better newer and never out of ammo. Miracles or Syrian Express?

    Giving them old stocks of s-200 isn't the same as giving them 250km range missile for s-300.

    After Isreali actions I dont think there will be any shortage of S-300 for Syria.



    can you rephrase it please?

    Russia has plenty of migs that are sitting in russia and not used. They could send some to syria for patroling and if needed engaging potentiel f-16 that would want to launch surprise attack. 3 or 4 smt + all those syrian mig could make a valuable threat to any israeli attack.

    SMT are replace by sukhoi and send in less important zones. So they vould send them in syria.

    I dont think they will send any MiGs ,  nothing was said by Putin abut it. But Intel, radar data, AAD crews training I bet is part of the deal.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:48 pm

    Cruise missiles don't have active seekers, so using them against a mobile platform like the S-300 is gonna require seriously accurate intelligence, and the S-300 isn't just one system it's multiple modular platforms coordinating with each other, ergo they don't need to be in the same place either.
    This is why the U.S uses SEAD strike force to try and hunt down such systems.
    And considering the hard time these similar Strike forces had hunting down Iraqi Scuds, despite having complete air-superiority, we can expect the hunting of S-300s to be even more difficult.
    And since you cant send a Strike forces in there without getting shot, your outta luck.

    Then again, he Syrians did lose a Pantsir and even a frickin TOR, so let's hope they have 1 or 2 SHORADs around the S-300s at all times.

    S-300 are not that much mobile. When operating they need to stay static. Israel has 1 or 2 sat monitoring the area and probably following them. The trucks are big and easily recognizable from sattelites.

    Scud are shoot and run. They need few minutes to shoot the missile. S-300 need to stay static while operating. A moving s-300 is useless.

    F-16 can pop up from the mountains and launch its anti radar missiles and hide again. Israeli are good at those operations.

    But carriers will be visible. Anyway With EW CMs have to go high, no navigation, no Intel data.

    No they could stay at very altitude all the way. From israel to damas there is less than 100km. F-15 can fly to the border by staying at 500m altitude and never be spotted by s-300 and launch it missiles.

    EW are an advantage but doesn't secure them totally. It could also impact their own systems with a big jaming environment. If they jam an f-16 and same time a mig-29 and the poor trained mig pilots think he is under attack and starts shooting at everything they may have another il-20 downed.

    Their all radars will be in one network managed by Russian management system. This is part of the deal. i wouldn't be surprised if Russians also fed their data to mgmt system.

    Unless they network it with A-50 and it is in the air during an israeli attack, it won't help to see behind the mountain and low altitude over Israel...

    I dont think they will send any MiGs ,  nothing was said by Putin abut it. But Intel, radar data, AAD crews training I bet is part of the deal.

    It would be stupid. In the area Israel has the advantage because it is the one who attacks with a huge air force, near its border, with terrain advantaging them over ground russian/syrian systems and they are also sneaky and can plan complicated but destroying operations. And the opponent is syrian army which isn't the best out there.

    If they don't have enough assests in the air to counter them, they will keep attacking. More tactical fighters are needed their. And russia should less comprehensib toward them and start shooting at them when they go to far.

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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:59 am

    Isos wrote:
    Cruise missiles don't have active seekers, so using them against a mobile platform like the S-300 is gonna require seriously accurate intelligence, and the S-300 isn't just one system it's multiple modular platforms coordinating with each other, ergo they don't need to be in the same place either.
    This is why the U.S uses SEAD strike force to try and hunt down such systems.
    And considering the hard time these similar Strike forces had hunting down Iraqi Scuds, despite having complete air-superiority, we can expect the hunting of S-300s to be even more difficult.
    And since you cant send a Strike forces in there without getting shot, your outta luck.

    Then again, he Syrians did lose a Pantsir and even a frickin TOR, so let's hope they have 1 or 2 SHORADs around the S-300s at all times.

    S-300 are not that much mobile. When operating they need to stay static. Israel has 1 or 2 sat monitoring the area and probably following them. The trucks are big and easily recognizable from sattelites.

    Scud are shoot and run. They need few minutes to shoot the missile. S-300 need to stay static while operating. A moving s-300 is useless.

    F-16 can pop up from the mountains and launch its anti radar missiles and hide again. Israeli are good at those operations

    Dude, there is nothing static about the S-300, Russia gave up on static defenses years ago.

    There's a reason why S-300s deploy within 10 minutes.

    Then at worst they'll hit the radar not the launchers.

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