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76 posters

    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu May 16, 2024 7:23 pm

    Broski wrote:There's definitely a future for the MiG-35 as a cheap to operate, throwaway jet for low to medium intensity conflicts, border patrol, deployment to third world shitholes that aren't trustworthy like Armenia and the Central Stans, freebies to gift allies like Syria and North Korea and to add numbers where quantity matters more than quality.

    But...
    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Bd721a11

    The UAC ain't going to spend billions of dollars developing vaporware aircraft that literally already exist in the form of S-70, Su-75 and Yak-130. MiG's future will ultimately be playing 2nd fiddle to Sukhoi at best, and there's nothing wrong with that. The PAK-DP is going to be their flagship project and Russia is going to need 100+ high speed interceptors minimum to hunt B-52's, AWACS aircraft, refueling tankers, attack priority ground targets and overall to keep the warmongering NATO psychos humble and honest.

    Yak 130 is not a Mig 5th Gen light fighter

    The MiG 5th Gen fighter will have AESA radar, and afterburning klimov Rd33 improved engines

    Which is far cry from Yak130 turbofan engines

    You need MiG35 as a bridge to get to the 5th Gen design and to develop commonality of parts like engines and radar

    Su35 --> su57

    Mig 35 --> MiG 5th Gen fighter

    Su75 is export project only

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu May 16, 2024 7:25 pm

    Isos wrote:There is no future for mig-35.

    Garry you don't see the big picture. They won't buy a plane because it cost 4 times less than a western plane. It needs to fit in their overall strategy which until now was go for the big birds only.


    That strategy failed

    Bigass sukhois led to gaps in IADS and airfields, oil refineries, naval drydocks and the bridge all getting yeeted

    So MiG35 is a necessary solution to improve air coverage and to shoot down cruise missiles, drones, and other things that sukhoi can't do because it costs to much to operate or there's too few of them to cover the giant russian airspace

    This is what sukhoi fanboys don't get, and I'm going to rub it in once su75 junk gets tossed and Mig is rolling in dough

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Thu May 16, 2024 7:39 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Bigass sukhois led to gaps in IADS and airfields, oil refineries, naval drydocks and the bridge all getting yeeted

    So MiG35 is a necessary solution to improve air coverage and to shoot down cruise missiles, drones, and other things that sukhoi can't do because it costs to much to operate or there's too few of them to cover the giant russian airspace

    Geeze its shocking I never realized that they withdrew the Mig-31 from service! When did this happen?! Shocked

    Arkanghelsk wrote:This is what sukhoi fanboys don't get,  and I'm going to rub it in once su75 junk gets tossed and Mig is rolling in dough

    So when do you expect this Mig LF to fly? I would guess around 2040 judging by your earlier comments here.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu May 16, 2024 8:38 pm

    Mir wrote:

    Geeze its shocking I never realized that they withdrew the Mig-31 from service! When did this happen?!  Shocked

    MiG31 have done great so far dropping kinzhal and getting long range kills on Ukro AF with R37

    We can't say the same for SU35, which is too thinly spread out to provide coverage around the clock

    Yeah su35 has its share of kills,  but it should be focused on long range interception rather than CAP in IADS gaps

    That's what MiG35 will fix

    Mir wrote:

    So when do you expect this Mig LF to fly? I would guess around 2040 judging by your earlier comments here.

    Once they get funding, I don't think it should take long, ofc you need serial production of MiG35

    And them based off its performance,  we will see the 5th Gen inducted

    Once it shows that it can tackle storm shadow, Taurus, Ukro drones, and ground kills of HIMARS and ATACMS with GROM , it should prove the necessity of MIG 5th Gen

    Su35 can do this job too, but like I said too few of them and too costly to operate them as multirole interceptors / CAP patrol

    MiG35 with its AESA radar will easily track multiple missiles and kill them, and it will be much better at processing information from ground based radar as well

    Shit if Belousov pumps Helios RLD AWACS, miG35 will be the most lethal fighter in the VKS

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    Isos
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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2

    Post  Isos Thu May 16, 2024 8:49 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Isos wrote:There is no future for mig-35.

    Garry you don't see the big picture. They won't buy a plane because it cost 4 times less than a western plane. It needs to fit in their overall strategy which until now was go for the big birds only.


    That strategy failed

    Bigass sukhois led to gaps in IADS and airfields, oil refineries, naval drydocks and the bridge all getting yeeted

    So MiG35 is a necessary solution to improve air coverage and to shoot down cruise missiles, drones, and other things that sukhoi can't do because it costs to much to operate or there's too few of them to cover the giant russian airspace

    This is what sukhoi fanboys don't get,  and I'm going to rub it in once su75 junk gets tossed and Mig is rolling in dough

    Do you have data for the mig-35 costs ?

    Last time I checked it was still a twing engine fighter with pretty much the same systems as su-35. It's not because it is smaller that its spare parts are cheaper.

    If they wabt to secure martime areas it's not fighters that they need but drones and maritime patrol aircrafts in the form of a chepa il-114mpa.

    Same for improving IADS coverage it's not fighters they need but Awacs that can guided S-400 missiles or even buk missiles which are cheaper.

    Finally if they want to increase the number of fighters they need a single engine aircraft. Even China and the US went with such aircraft (F-35, f-16 and j-10) as the backbone of their airforces despite their bigger economies because at the end of the day a single engine is cheaper than 2 engines. You can argue about the combat capabilities but if you can mount an aesa on them with 200km range and give them good missiles then it will do 90% of the missions that could happen in theory (interception, sky patrol, ground support).

    Sure, having 300 mig-35 would ve a big plus, but having 300 su-75 with internal bays that allo less drag so more range or that mig above is way better. Their stealth helps a lot too compare to a unstealthy mig-35 armed with 2 r-77 and 2 draggy fuel tanks.

    And even USSR with its 40% GDP spending on military wasn't able to field as much advanced su-27 or mig-29 as mig-23 or mig-21.
    Arkanghelsk
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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2

    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu May 16, 2024 9:06 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Do you have data for the mig-35 costs ?

    Last time I checked it was still a twing engine fighter with pretty much the same systems as su-35. It's not because it is smaller that its spare parts are cheaper.

    If they wabt to secure martime areas it's not fighters that they need but drones and maritime patrol aircrafts in the form of a chepa il-114mpa.

    Same for improving IADS coverage it's not fighters they need but Awacs that can guided S-400 missiles or even buk missiles which are cheaper.

    Finally if they want to increase the number of fighters they need a single engine aircraft. Even China and the US went with such aircraft (F-35, f-16 and j-10) as the backbone of their airforces despite their bigger economies because at the end of the day a single engine is cheaper than 2 engines. You can argue about the combat capabilities but if you can mount an aesa on them with 200km range and give them good missiles then it will do 90% of the missions that could happen in theory (interception, sky patrol, ground support).

    Sure, having 300 mig-35 would ve a big plus, but having 300 su-75 with internal bays that allo less drag so more range or that mig above is way better. Their stealth helps a lot too compare to a unstealthy mig-35 armed with 2 r-77 and 2 draggy fuel tanks.

    And even USSR with its 40% GDP spending on military wasn't able to field as much advanced su-27 or mig-29 as mig-23 or mig-21.

    While su75 can perform those missions, the mission profile for Su75 will be that of su57

    Mostly kh69 launches from standoff range and killing enemy AWACS, Tankers, and enemy combat air patrol around those assets

    It's not designed for Frontline aviation role of MiG35

    That is , to be based near the Frontline, and to rapidly respond to cruise missiles, drones, and fighters that come near that have not been engaged by s400/pantsir/buk/etc.

    Ukraine will be getting F16 with HARM ER, and I imagine they will get JASSM ER as well , and JDAM ER

    Su35 cannot cope with this task

    Only MiG35 can do it with sufficient numbers

    Su75 is still more than a decade away from being implemented, AL51 is not ready, and they still need to iron su57 production before thinking of su75

    The case for mig35 is obvious

    As the west transfers more carriers of long range weapons, and Ukraine flies LO LO LO missions near the front

    You want a fighter that is omnipresent and rapidly capable to shoot down the threat

    Belbek, Saki, Yeysk, Shit even Saint Petersburg and Rostov would be 100% safer with some mig35 regiments there

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu May 16, 2024 9:29 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:....
    This is what sukhoi fanboys don't get,  and I'm going to rub it in once su75 junk gets tossed and Mig is rolling in dough

    So a fully funded project in prototype stage will get tossed in favor of nonexistent project by a disgraced design bureau on it's deathbed which hasn't produced a single new product in over three decades?

    I think it's tad more likely that Su-75 will have big chunk of that new defense budget thrown at it while name "MiG" gets sold by UAC for peanuts to Games Workshop or Revell pwnd







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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Thu May 16, 2024 11:53 pm

    Mikoyan wont die. As I said, their secret weapon is the upkeep of the MiG-31's and hopefully the upcoming interceptor.

    They can actually still do work. MiG-35 is an example of actually attempting to make advancements. It has lower RCS and much better electronics onboard. Apparently better build skin and what not.

    Issue is, they never went beyond prototypes and no interest.

    I honestly think it was a case of lack of money on RuMoD end of things. And with that, Mikoyan has now dwindled down to what it is now and the MiG-35 is a case of too little too late now. So its better off they design something else instead.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri May 17, 2024 5:00 am

    Look at the pictures below - these are Su-33's just in case you don't recognize them.

    Which is actually a good argument against Su-33s... they are big and take up too much room on a carrier... if they are going for buddy refuelling then use the smaller aircraft so you can carry more planes. Razz

    Well it is known that unlike a bomb load, air-to-air missile do not impose too many aerodynamic restrictions on a fighter - especially on a Su-27! Even the Su-34 demonstrated extreme maneuverability with full missile loads. In the case of air-to-air missiles having them in numbers can give you a significant advantage over your adversary.

    Actually with a full fuel load there is a 5 g limit on manouverability for the Su-27. That is why they often do not operate with full fuel tanks... other than not normally needing full fuel tanks.


    Having to use drop tanks cuts deep into your weapons load - esp on the Mig-29's already limited loadout compared to the Su-27.

    Centreline pylon on the MiG-29 is normally occupied by a fuel tank... in a buddy refuelling situation both aircraft can carry a centreline fuel tank.

    Newer models of MiG-29 have had increasing volumes of fuel as standard and the new models have a decent amount of fuel capacity.

    The overall effect of all the aerodynamic changes gave the Su-27KUB a unprecedented high lift/drag ratio - resulting in a 10% overall improvement over the Su-33. The fuel load was unchanged, giving it up to 20% more range over the Su-33!

    Yet they still didn't buy it... I suspect that will help them understand MiG a bit better...

    On another point - the Ka-31 would have been replaced by a Su-27KUB AEW&C version with a radar similar to the Swedish Erieye mounted between the composite fins - with the rest of the radar system housed in the tail stinger. An ECM and ELINT version was also on the cards - but sadly the program was terminated on ground of costs.

    Not a shock really... if they can't afford two types of planes then they can't afford two types of planes.

    Why was Sukhoi so dumb?

    You never mentioned "evolution". I believe you used the word "upgrade" - which has a completely different meaning.

    An improvement is an upgrade... I might be using a piece of chalk to write things down... if I get a ball point pen then that is an upgrade in tools... it doesn't mean I took the piece of chalk and created a ball point pen out of it...


    The Algerians picked up the issues on the SMT's very early on. Just imagine how easy it would have been for Mig's engineers and technicians!

    No corruption in Algeria either of course... maybe Sukhoi gets away without criticism because they bribe better?

    They tried selling used airplanes to Algerians and pretended they were new ones

    No they didn't... there were accusations of counterfeit parts being sold but if that is the case then who knows who knew what was happening... they might have offered newly made parts for which there would be a wait while they were made and also a higher price, or you can have these parts that are much cheaper and no questions asked. At the time of purchase no one cared, but later on with pressure from Sukhoi they found issues and raised them as excuses to get out of the deal.

    BTW have not heard of Russian AF MigG-29SMTs falling from the skies because of counterfeit parts.

    This wasn't some botched paintjob, it was attempt at fraud on international level

    Fraud at an international level... never happens.


    It was a disaster of epic proportions and played a huge part in the unfortunate reputation hit of MiG and its further developments of the MiG-29 and eventually the MiG-35.

    It was blown out of all proportion by Sukhoi and also western "experts" because they didn't have better products so they had to pretend MiG was as corrupt as they were. Look at Boeing... faggots here claiming MiG is the image of evil... how many engineers have they murdered this year?

    I can't speak for the VKS/VVS and how it affected their perception, but internationally, it was a crippling disaster from hell with the reputation hit MiG suffered from that.

    Vast majority of people didn't even know it happened or what actually happened.

    For a decade or so the MiG-29 was the boogeyman that western MIC companies claimed was the reason they needed more money to counter... and then the cold war ended and half the new members of HATO had MiG-29s so of course they had to discredit them... if Germany got rid of their F-4s and kept their MiG-29s and upgraded them WTF would they need Typhoon for... expensive over rated piece of shit that it is. They are already retiring the first models because it is cheaper to scrap them and make new planes than to upgrade the old models... talk about corruption... MiG are not even in the same class.

    Those who think that's a trivial element and didn't matter in the grand scheme of things are sadly mistaken.

    They had stacks of Su-27s that had been made but there was no avionics and radars to put in them because making airframes was easier and quicker than making the avionics and systems... did that make the Su-27 a failure?

    I've said it before on this board and still maintain it; the inability to produce the Zhuk-AE AESA radar 15 years ago and get it into the MiG-35 to compete with the likes of the F-16, F-18, Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon (not to mention all the Chinese fighters - J-10C - including their Soviet/Russian licensed copies they make) and so on, greatly contributed to where the MiG-29/35 stands today.

    Where it stands today is a modern 4+ generation aircraft about to go into serial production to fill out the Russian AF and probably also the Russian Navy.

    The Typhoon is shit, Rafale is too expensive for what it is, and the F-16 is about to go back into production because its replacement F-35s are shit too.

    In a sea of mediocre the MiG-35 is not the worst or the most expensive.

    You just can't conduct mafiosi tactics, get caught doing that, then lag behind the competition in the most critical aspects of technology and expect success.

    Oh please it was counterfeit parts and old already made airframes.... they weren't fucking camels.

    So when do you expect this Mig LF to fly? I would guess around 2040 judging by your earlier comments here.

    Moron thinks it will be 25 years before MiG-LF flies because he has seen a model and thinks that is all it is.

    Putting MiG-35s into serial production would take the pressure of any light 5th gen replacement aircraft production schedule, and when the MiG-35s are completed that factory could be used to produce new light 5th gen fighters as needed for testing.

    It would get affordable light fighters into operation faster than any other option and be a basis for MiG to develop their next gen light fighter further too.

    So a fully funded project in prototype stage will get tossed in favor of nonexistent project by a disgraced design bureau on it's deathbed which hasn't produced a single new product in over three decades?

    If Su-75 was fully funded they would not have been advertising it hard at MAKS to GET funding and international customers.

    The funded project will be MiG and that is why we only saw a model... we are lucky to even see that because it is obviously secret.

    Mikoyan wont die. As I said, their secret weapon is the upkeep of the MiG-31's and hopefully the upcoming interceptor.

    The MiG-UTS also seems to be a thing too, and the MiG-35 is ready for service and the only game in town for the Russians.

    Issue is, they never went beyond prototypes and no interest.

    Except 6 are in service for evaluation... unlike the SU-75 which has not even flown yet.


    I honestly think it was a case of lack of money on RuMoD end of things.

    Ironically if it was a lack of money they would cut the purchases of the Flankers and buy MiG-29Ms because they are cheaper and can be used in large numbers and are affordable to operate.

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri May 17, 2024 6:30 am

    GarryB wrote: It was blown out of all proportion by Sukhoi and also western "experts" because they didn't have better products so they had to pretend MiG was as corrupt as they were. Look at Boeing... faggots here claiming MiG is the image of evil... how many engineers have they murdered this year?...

    So Sukhoi is now working for West and Boeing?

    Or was Sukhoi murdering engineers?

    I'm having problems keeping up with cope and excuses here



    GarryB wrote:
    The funded project will be MiG and that is why we only saw a model... we are lucky to even see that because it is obviously secret.

    Yeah, it's so secret that we won't be seeing anything more than model

    Just like all those countless completely funded, fully developed and totally real MiG projects over the decades?   lol1




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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri May 17, 2024 6:43 am

    Frontline mig-35 lol1 You think it can detect himars and missikes fired at the airport and take off faster than a su-35 and destroy a target that a su-35 can't destroy ?

    Frontline fighters is a dead type. Suicide drones will destroy them day and night before they can even take off. Seen in Ukraine and in Israel(Iran could have destroyed a lot of israeli planes with its drones).

    They need a plane that can take off at least 500km away do its mission and go home. This suggest internal bays not for stealth but for less drag and a range of at least 2000km with weapons. Mig 35 is a thing of the past unless thet want to use it like the french use the rafale, 3 big fuel tanks always and 2 bombs for the mission.

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    Broski
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    Post  Broski Fri May 17, 2024 7:05 am

    So when do you expect this Mig LF to fly? I would guess around 2040 judging by your earlier comments here.

    Moron thinks it will be 25 years before MiG-LF flies because he has seen a model and thinks that is all it is.

    Putting MiG-35s into serial production would take the pressure of any light 5th gen replacement aircraft production schedule, and when the MiG-35s are completed that factory could be used to produce new light 5th gen fighters as needed for testing.
    2040 would be 15 years from now, the Su-57 took at least that long to develop from scratch including prototypes and extensive testing.

    So a fully funded project in prototype stage will get tossed in favor of nonexistent project by a disgraced design bureau on it's deathbed which hasn't produced a single new product in over three decades?

    If Su-75 was fully funded they would not have been advertising it hard at MAKS to GET funding and international customers.

    The funded project will be MiG and that is why we only saw a model... we are lucky to even see that because it is obviously secret.
    It obviously exists on paper only which is why these toy models from MiG were being displayed at MAKS alongside an actual existing prototype from Sukhoi. When the time comes for the RuAF to spend money acquiring a 'light' 5th Generation Jet, they'll have the choice of a smaller, single-engined Su-57 or a paper concept that will take 10+ years and several billion dollars to develop because the company in question wasn't capable of building one on their own initiative, or just lazy perhaps? 🤣🤣🤣

    By the way, do you want to know what an actual secret project that's fully funded by the Russian Government looks like? That's right, none of us do because... it's a secret. But we know it's called the PAK-DP.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri May 17, 2024 7:32 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GarryB wrote: It was blown out of all proportion by Sukhoi and also western "experts" because they didn't have better products so they had to pretend MiG was as corrupt as they were. Look at Boeing... faggots here claiming MiG is the image of evil... how many engineers have they murdered this year?...

    So Sukhoi is now working for West and Boeing?

    Or was Sukhoi murdering engineers?

    I'm having problems keeping up with cope and excuses here



    GarryB wrote:
    The funded project will be MiG and that is why we only saw a model... we are lucky to even see that because it is obviously secret.

    Yeah, it's so secret that we won't be seeing anything more than model

    Just like all those countless completely funded, fully developed and totally real MiG projects over the decades?   lol1


    It's just the usual copium running on a mouse wheel.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri May 17, 2024 7:33 am

    Broski wrote:
    2040 would be 15 years from now, the Su-57 took at least that long to develop from scratch including prototypes and extensive testing.
    I was just trying to be nice  Laughing

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri May 17, 2024 8:47 am

    GarryB wrote:Centreline pylon on the MiG-29 is normally occupied by a fuel tank... in a buddy refuelling situation both aircraft can carry a centreline fuel tank.

    Sorry no - you need the centerline for the buddy system.
    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Mig29-17

    Its a real shame that Mig-29 screwed up so badly, but there is still hope. They can always fall back on the new Mig basic trainer - if they can get the contract.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri May 17, 2024 9:02 am

    Beautiful pic of a Mig-29K on a long range mission.

    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Mig29-18

    Beautiful pic of a Su-27 on a long range mission.

    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Su27-l10

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri May 17, 2024 12:59 pm


    So Sukhoi is now working for West and Boeing?

    If they don't want competition for light fighters for the Russian Air Force then they sort of do.

    They are trying to compete for contracts, they are not doing anything wrong as such, but MiG and Sukhoi have traditionally competed for aircraft contracts and it has gone from MiG winning all the fighter contracts (MiG-15,17,21,23) to only winning the light fighter contracts and the interceptor contracts (MiG-29 and MiG-25/31).

    Sukhoi won the strike and swing fighter *(mud mover) roles with the Fitter family and of course the Su-25 and Su-24 aircraft and have switched from interceptor (Su-9/11/15) to heavy interceptor roles (Flanker family) but expanded to include strike (Su-34) and next gen fighter (Su-57).

    Right now MiG has the interceptor (MiG-31) and probably its replacement wrapped up simply because speed is important when large distances are involved like in the Far East and North, while we are not hearing anything about their next gen replacement for the MiG-35.... they might only end up making 100 MiG-35s and then move in to single engined light 5th gen fighters if it turns out stealth can be affordable and it makes enough of a difference to warrant its use. They will also be making a light LIFT too.

    These are things they can do while Sukhoi is busy with strike and heavy 5th gen as well as wingman drones and a new light strike platform... though that role might be subsumed by the light fighters of 4+ and 5th gen.

    I'm having problems keeping up with cope and excuses here

    My cope... some members have buried MiG and are giving a eulogy...


    Yeah, it's so secret that we won't be seeing anything more than model

    I doubt they wanted to share the programme... letting India join the programme for the Su-57 was just a pain in the arse and did nothing to improve the Russian model or their timescales at all. It was worse than useless... so I rather suspect the way forward is to develop what they want and then offer joint ventures to adapt the types to customers use like the Su-30MKI where the customer pays for the modifications and changes they want but seem to expect Russia to pay for...

    Just like all those countless completely funded, fully developed and totally real MiG projects over the decades?

    One of the biggest problems with the MIG-AT was its high French content... they fixed that quickly enough though.

    Frontline mig-35 lol1 You think it can detect himars and missikes fired at the airport and take off faster than a su-35 and destroy a target that a su-35 can't destroy ?

    They don't sit on the airfield waiting for launch instructions to attack a target, they operate in the air looking for threats and dealing to them when they find them... carrying a few glide bombs and ARMs...

    Mig 35 is a thing of the past unless thet want to use it like the french use the rafale, 3 big fuel tanks always and 2 bombs for the mission.

    Rafale is a thing of the past because it is more like an Su-35 in that no one could afford to operate it in the numbers that would actually make it a useful light fighter.

    2040 would be 15 years from now, the Su-57 took at least that long to develop from scratch including prototypes and extensive testing.

    Indeed, both single engined 5th gen fighters are not going to be 5 year projects no matter what the makers say, which means even if they only take 10 years that is from now to 2035 that you don't have enough planes...

    It obviously exists on paper only which is why these toy models from MiG were being displayed at MAKS alongside an actual existing prototype from Sukhoi. When the time comes for the RuAF to spend money acquiring a 'light' 5th Generation Jet, they'll have the choice of a smaller, single-engined Su-57 or a paper concept that will take 10+ years and several billion dollars to develop because the company in question wasn't capable of building one on their own initiative, or just lazy perhaps?

    Of course... MiG only has tiny models... the evidence is clear... except the month before that particular MAKS the SU-75 didn't exist at all did it?

    They showed a full scale mockup and towed it down a runway and then said it can't fly... what was all the theatrics of towing it down the runway for except to give the impression it was further ahead in development than it actually was.

    In comparison MiG just showed a couple of models of what it was working on. If it is an official programme for the Russian AF could it be that models were all it was allowed to show?

    By the way, do you want to know what an actual secret project that's fully funded by the Russian Government looks like? That's right, none of us do because... it's a secret. But we know it's called the PAK-DP.

    Or maybe they didn't want to get sued by countries 5 years down the track when they invested in the Su-75 only to find out that the MiG aircraft is the aircraft being funded by the Russian AF... and decide they want the MiG instead.

    It's just the usual copium running on a mouse wheel.

    What I find amusing is the abuse I get for not sharing your opinion... it seems nazism in the west is total when those interesting in Russia still think people having alternative views are unacceptable and need to be bullied or made to shut up.

    Sorry no - you need the centerline for the buddy system.

    That aircraft is carrying four external tanks so it wouldn't need the centreline position for more fuel.... the PAZ-MK can deliver fuel from the aircraft fuel system and external tanks so carrying four external tanks and four R-73s on the outer wing pylons would allow it to take off and fuel an aircraft and then operate over the ships armed with AAMs before landing again to refuel as needed. With four external tanks it can probably transfer a similar amount of fuel to the Su-33.

    Beautiful pic of a Mig-29K on a long range mission.

    And how many long range missions has the Kuznetsov needed so far in its operational career?

    Most attack missions would make more sense using Granits than fighter aircraft.

    And having shorter ranged aircraft in greater numbers makes sense too.

    But then the Navy thought the Su-33 and Su-25UTG were a good idea so common sense is relative isn't it.

    Funny thing is that Su-27s and MiG-29s are getting shot down over the Ukraine... are you so sure one is superior to the other?
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    Post  Mir Fri May 17, 2024 2:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:What I find amusing is the abuse I get for not sharing your opinion...

    What I find amusing is that you make ridiculous statements (a few samples below) and when I respond with actual facts, that you find my response abusive. Please tell me to stop responding to you if you can't handle the actual facts.

    In fact I find your very first bs statement below extremely disrespectful to one of the greatest aircraft designers that ever lived.  

    GarryB wrote:Did you hear the story of the engineer that moved from MiG to Sukhoi and took with him the design of the MiG-29... the unsuccessful T-10 turned into the MiG-29 like T-10M overnight

    GarryB wrote:The Su-33 was a warmed over Su-27P with folding bits and a tail hook.

    GarryB wrote:The T-10M looks rather more like a MiG-29 than the T-10 does.

    GarryB wrote:Things like inflight refuelling probes were no advantage then either with strategic aviation being the only operators of inflight refuelling aircraft in their forces.

    GarryB wrote:The only planes on the Kuznetsov that could refuel the Su-33s would be the Su-25UTG

    GarryB wrote:It was going to be a strike aircraft but probably wouldn't make any sense without catapults to get airborne at any useful weight.

    GarryB wrote:Centreline pylon on the MiG-29 is normally occupied by a fuel tank... in a buddy refuelling situation both aircraft can carry a centreline fuel tank.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2

    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri May 17, 2024 3:05 pm

    Mir wrote:

    Beautiful pic of a Su-27 on a long range mission.

    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Su27-l10

    Show the airfields after they get yeeted by drones and Storm shadow Laughing Laughing

    What a waste of space
    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 08790010


    Imagine if they had these

    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Img_2379

    What's all that range for if you can't even afford enough of them to stop these attacks?

    MiG35 has 1000km range

    They can be based outside the range of these weapons and afforded in enough numbers to get in the air and shoot down all these threats

    Sukhoi on the other hand has only shown an uncanny ability to not be seen...

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri May 17, 2024 3:19 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Imagine if they had these
    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Img_2379

    Are you suggesting that the Mig-29's have some special armour that protects them from harm (Storm Shadows)when they are standing idle on the apron like that?

    Btw the picture you show was neither a Storm Shadow or drone attack at all, and your Migs would have burned just as well.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri May 17, 2024 3:29 pm

    Mir wrote:

    Are you suggesting that the Mig-29's have some special armour that protects them from harm (Storm Shadows)when they are standing idle on the apron like that?

    Btw the picture you show was neither a Storm Shadow or drone attack at all, and your Migs would have burned just as well.

    Nah Migs would have actually been present in airfields further back and been there to shoot them down

    Unlike Sukhois a dime a dozen littered from Murmansk to Vladivostok
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri May 17, 2024 6:47 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:.....
    MiG35 has 1000km range

    They can be based outside the range of these weapons and afforded in enough numbers to get in the air and shoot down all these threats
    ....

    Sukhoi has 1600km combat range

    Only thing MiG-35 would accomplish would be to get shredded on the aprons in massive numbers because it has the be parked literally nextdoor





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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Fri May 17, 2024 8:06 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Mir wrote:

    Are you suggesting that the Mig-29's have some special armour that protects them from harm (Storm Shadows)when they are standing idle on the apron like that?

    Btw the picture you show was neither a Storm Shadow or drone attack at all, and your Migs would have burned just as well.

    Nah Migs would have actually been present in airfields further back and been there to shoot them down

    Unlike Sukhois a dime a dozen littered from Murmansk to Vladivostok

    Arkanghelesk, now your defence of MiG-35 it is becoming surreal: how many of these are been produced until now, six?

    So, MiG-35 is actually not even a dime a dozen, it is a dime -half a dozen as they have no more than that...
    You need something to down drones NOW?
    Older MiG-29 still in service, Su-25  and even the An-72P of Border Guards with their gun pod would be enough or the task.

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    Post  Mir Fri May 17, 2024 8:55 pm

    No Marcellogo you don't understand - it has to be a MiG.

    Introducing the Mig-76 "Checkers" from the newly formed 1st Anti-Drone Guards Unit  Smile

    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 New-ca10

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    Post  Mir Fri May 17, 2024 10:31 pm

    Shocked

    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Its-al10

    [/url]MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2 - Page 37 Secret10


    Last edited by Mir on Sun May 19, 2024 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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