France Foreign Policy and Diplomacy

You are the rat trying to work out which ship to board that will give you the best chance of survival and comfort.
But as you keep saying, France makes their own ships... so why are you such a cowardly rat that needs to hide behind other powers to spit and scowl at China and the US?
So you admit you openly interfered in the democratic process in Italy... why would Russia want to be your friend in such a case?
..no core morals or ethics or major long or short term plan... just whichever way the wind blows you put in your two cents and it makes you sound progressive and leader like, but really you are just another politician checking the wind direction before piling on with some hand flung shit at whomever is the current target.
..it is no longer Putin and Russia and now it is China and the US amusingly.
Putin understands the game and the rules and will use better ties to improve Russia's position, but when the wind changes he won't be surprised either I suspect.
It of course changes suddenly, which is always a surprise but he will be expecting it to happen at some stage.

Putin & Lavrov can clearly see right through France's goals, even w/o reading this & the other French related thread. They know that the only permanent thing in our world is change.

Tsavo Lion wrote:Not when u have rosy glasses on, which seems to be the case with u!

A european hegemony, doing whats best for europe under french leadership.

certainly not over E. Europe, more than 1/2 of which is within Russia, Belorussia & Ukraine.

I think the fact that France dismisses macedonia and albania ect shows very well what value eastern europe has for us.

The Germans won't allow French hegemony even in N/W/C Europe. They may get nukes to be on roughly the same level.

Tsavo Lion wrote:The Germans won't allow French hegemony even in N/W/C Europe. They may get nukes to be on roughly the same level.

Germany is weak. As long they have their current leadership, they do what we order. And i dont mean Merkel. Their entire political class is weak.

If they r so weak, then joining with Russia/China led Eurasian Union will eliminate both the US & French dictat. What do they have to lose?

Tsavo Lion wrote:If they r so weak, then joining with Russia/China led Eurasian Union will eliminate both the US & French dictat. What do they have to lose?

They are scared and chose France over USA. Russia and Chima are alien cultures to them.

What are you even debating? You have no clue about all of this. Nobody in western europe want be subordinate of the chi coms

Russia and China are alien cultures to them.

so is the French culture. Their interests (which u allude to with regard to France) will be better served by becoming neutral or joining Russia. Austria is also German but she remained neutral since 1945 & prospered. Sweden with her "armed neutrality" also speaks Germanic language & hadn't gone to any war since being defeated by Russia.

Nobody in western europe want be subordinate of the chi coms

Which country in Europe wants to be subordinated to Paris? Even ur own Corsica has separatism.
FYI, no1 talks about subordinating W. Europe to China; by working together for mutual benefit, every1 will benefit.

Tsavo Lion wrote:

Russia and China are alien cultures to them.

so is the French culture. Their interests (which u allude to with regard to France) will be better served by becoming neutral or joining Russia. Austria is also German but she remained neutral since 1945 & prospered. Sweden with her "armed neutrality" also speaks Germanic language & hadn't gone to any war since being defeated by Russia.

Nobody in western europe want be subordinate of the chi coms

Which country in Europe wants to be subordinated to Paris? Even ur own Corsica has separatism.
FYI, no1 talks about subordinating W. Europe to China; by working together for mutual benefit, every1 will benefit.

I can tell you how that "working together" can be. No tech and science transfer.

We have a certain point of view. We want an independend and strong western Europe. This core Europe is led by France and Germany. Since Germany is weak right now, the leadership falls completly on us.

Its France that currently pushs for european data cloud services, european Galileo system ect. We push USA out of Europe and i see this as a positive thing.
China has nothing we can profit from. They are a potential threat we will watch them closely

Well, the UK left the EU but still part of Europe, & she is allied with US closely. France won't be ruling Scandinavia & Turkey (which has a small area in Europe) either.

China has nothing we can profit from.

tell that to Airbus & other investors!
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2152433/china-expands-trade-france-bolster-european-ties-amid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93France_relations#Trade_deals_2019
https://tradingeconomics.com/france/exports-to-china

And some day u may lose the French Polynesia:
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/article/china-signs-deal-to-lease-pacific-island-in-solomons/

Tsavo Lion wrote:Well, the UK left the EU but still part of Europe, & she is allied with US closely. France won't be ruling Scandinavia & Turkey (which has a small area in Europe) either.

China has nothing we can profit from.

tell that to Airbus & other investors!
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2152433/china-expands-trade-france-bolster-european-ties-amid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93France_relations#Trade_deals_2019
https://tradingeconomics.com/france/exports-to-china

And some day u may lose the French Polynesia:
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/article/china-signs-deal-to-lease-pacific-island-in-solomons/

We will never lose french polynesia. Majority there is french. Like in New Caledonia. In New Caledonia setteled so many french, that the population changed completly and is majority now.

Chinese for example are hated in NEw Caledonia. Even the tourists. They are portraid as swines and without good behavior. I´m New Caledonian (parts of my family comes from Bourail. We have a farm there and most of my family live there)

And what to tell about Airbus? Airbus is a french corporation and state owned. What our new approach is, to cut China out of tech transfer, cut it out from infrastructure projects.

The rest of your blubber is the bla bla of an old man.

And seriously`? Turkey? Why would we want rule over that shithole? Where you ever there? They are 3rd world. Like China.

Coming back to China...we currently push them back in pacific and forge alliances there to push them back

https://www.ft.com/content/9b1947be-4de0-11e8-8a8e-22951a2d8493

Macron pledges to counter China power in Pacific
France to work with Australia and allies in revived ‘quad’ project

France, Australia, Japan and USA signed a contract to keep China under control. And now India joined too

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/france-challenges-beijing-in-south-china-sea

Besides protecting navigation, France has cited the need to defend the interests of its citizens scattered across five French territories in the Pacific, including New Caledonia and French Polynesia.

"This region is also our home," current Defence Minister Florence Parly said during a visit to Singapore in early June.

Valerie Niquet, an expert on the Asia-Pacific region at the Foundation for Strategic Research in Paris, said France's growing assertiveness showed the US was no longer the only Western power "getting involved in the area".

"Faced with China, the US obviously plays the main deterrent role, but it's not pointless or trivial for a power like France, a permanent member of the (UN) Security Council, to take a firm, principled position and carry out concrete actions," she said, predicting that it would "marginalise China's position a little bit more".

Analysts point to another factor underpinning France's growing activism in the Indo-Pacific region: The need to show buyers of French arms that Paris has their back.

In 2016, India agreed to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets, and Australia signed a deal worth A$50 billion (S$51 billion) for 12 next-generation French submarines.

"That is also doubtlessly pushing France to be a lot firmer on subjects that, up until recently, were broached with great care," Niquet said.

GarryB wrote:

Germany is weak. As long they have their current leadership, they do what we order. And i dont mean Merkel. Their entire political class is weak.

They can change that at the next election.

BTW it was not that long ago that you didn't like Micron, but before that it was Putin that was bad and Micron was the hero for pointing that out and that France with their friends the US and UK would continue to be strong while Russia was weak...

Such dramatic changes over a relatively short period of time... make me wonder how long you think France will be able to lead the EU if things change so quickly.

Nobody in western europe want be subordinate of the chi coms

China does not want to control the west or to order it around like the US does today. They just want trade. Open and free trade... something the US is clearly dead against because they can't survive in a free trade environment.

We want an independend and strong western Europe.

It has never existed before and is unlikely to happen any time soon.

We will never lose french polynesia. Majority there is french.

Do you not see the contradiction there?

Your first premise is:

We will never lose french polynesia.

But your second premis is:

Majority there is french.

ie you are first saying french polynesia will remain loyal to France, but then you say the majority of of people in Polynesia are backstabbing lying .

So your second premise destroys your first...

I´m New Caledonian (parts of my family comes from Bourail. We have a farm there and most of my family live there)

Is your library on that farm? You said you were a librarian didn't you?

What? Librarian? I never said im librarian.

Why you always say such weird stuff? I work two jobs. I work as event manager and beside that im a fitness coach. Also eatn some money with small roles in TV and media productions.

I never was against Macron. I was critical at first but like his politics now. The way he leads France i see as positive.

And no, China does not wamt trade, they want steal inventions, resources ect.

Btw New Zealand follows our pacific initiative.

And what to tell about Airbus? Airbus is a french corporation and state owned.

then, aircraft sales to PRC will help the budget, contrary to what u said! what other country ordered so many Airbus planes lately?

The rest of your blubber is the bla bla of an old man.

u r good at denigrating others! being young doesn't automatically mean being wise; most of the time it's the opposite, & u with the rest of far right dregs r no exception.

And seriously`? Turkey? Why would we want rule over that shithole? Where you ever there? They are 3rd world. Like China.

I've been near the border in Armenia, Georgia & in Azerbaijan which is culturally close. Is ur former French Africa any different? If France was strong enough & Turkey weak enough, she would find an excuse to try to rule it, given its strategic location, if nothing else.

Coming back to China...we currently push them back in pacific and forge alliances there to push them back
France, Australia, Japan and USA signed a contract to keep China under control. And now India joined too...

that's an exaggeration- they can only try to contain her at best.
India is now moving toward accomodation with PRC:
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/article/xi-to-meet-modi-under-tense-circumstances/?_=8949619

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/opinion/modi-is-right-to-reset-china-india-relationship/

Why should they ally against China with France who had colonies there & in Indochina? How is France better than the UK in this context?

In 2016, India agreed to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets,..

FYI, they r now ordering more fighters & other arms from Russia.

Tsavo Lion wrote:

And what to tell about Airbus? Airbus is a french corporation and state owned.

then, aircraft sales to PRC will help the budget, contrary to what u said! what other country ordered so many Airbus planes lately?

The rest of your blubber is the bla bla of an old man.

u r good at denigrating others! being young doesn't automatically mean being wise; most of the time it's the opposite, & u with the rest of far right dregs r no exception.

And seriously`? Turkey? Why would we want rule over that shithole? Where you ever there? They are 3rd world. Like China.

I've been near the border in Armenia, Georgia & in Azerbaijan which is culturally close. Is ur former French Africa any different? If France was strong enough & Turkey weak enough, she would find an excuse to try to rule it, given its strategic location, if nothing else.

Coming back to China...we currently push them back in pacific and forge alliances there to push them back
France, Australia, Japan and USA signed a contract to keep China under control. And now India joined too...

that's an exaggeration- they can only try to contain her at best.
India is now moving toward accomodation with PRC:
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/article/xi-to-meet-modi-under-tense-circumstances/?_=8949619

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/opinion/modi-is-right-to-reset-china-india-relationship/

Why should they ally against China with France who had colonies there & in Indochina? How is France better than the UK in this context?

In 2016, India agreed to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets,..

FYI, they r now ordering more fighters & other arms from Russia.

We are not chi-coms. We dont snot on the streets, eat lizards and contrary to the chi com our existance only goal is not destroying nature.

Fact remains, that we sucesfully contain China in the pacific, forge alliances against China with Australia and Japan. Strenghten Europes independence and ability to make decissions without US, Chinese influence and i see that as a good thing. Its a development and policy that i support.

We dont snot on the streets, eat lizards and contrary to the chi com our existance only goal is not destroying nature.

French do eat frogs and horse meat; China has protected areas for tigers, leopards, pandas, etc. so, don't judge others by ur standards & expectations.
http://www.bjreview.com/Nation/201811/t20181105_800146804.html

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/chinas-national-parks-tigers-pandas

https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/protecting-snow-leopards-and-pandas-with-disneynature-s-born-in-china

We will never lose french polynesia.

Germany & Japan lost many of their islands in the Pacific, UK in the Caribbean, & Russia had to sell Alaska. Denmark lost Iceland & may lose Greenland. France could lose hers as well.

Fact remains, that we sucesfully contain China in the pacific, forge alliances against China with Australia and Japan. Strenghten Europes independence and ability to make decissions without US,..

Australia and Japan r allied with the USA, but u want the USA out of W. Europe. How can u stand up against China in the Indo-Pacific & US in Europe at the same time?! It's similar to how US wants to stand up to Russia in Europe & China/NK in Asia.
Sending ships to the SC Sea is similar to what NATO is doing in the Black & Baltic Seas: show the flag & the ability/will to go there. For all its bravado, the US didn't stop China from taking the Philippine claimed areas. Japan claims r more important to get involved over than those of the former colony.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarborough_Shoal_standoff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_claimed_by_the_Philippines#Scarborough_Shoal

https://amti.csis.org/dutertes-scarborough-shoal-moment/

Tsavo Lion wrote:

We dont snot on the streets, eat lizards and contrary to the chi com our existance only goal is not destroying nature.

French do eat frogs and horse meat; China has protected areas for tigers, leopards, pandas, etc. so, don't judge others by ur standards & expectations.
http://www.bjreview.com/Nation/201811/t20181105_800146804.html

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/chinas-national-parks-tigers-pandas

https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/protecting-snow-leopards-and-pandas-with-disneynature-s-born-in-china

We will never lose french polynesia.

Germany & Japan lost many of their islands in the Pacific, UK in the Caribbean, & Russia had to sell Alaska. Denmark lost Iceland & may lose Greenland. France could lose hers as well.

Fact remains, that we sucesfully contain China in the pacific, forge alliances against China with Australia and Japan. Strenghten Europes independence and ability to make decissions without US,..

Australia and Japan r allied with the USA, but u want the USA out of W. Europe. How can u stand up against China in the Indo-Pacific & US in Europe at the same time?! It's similar to how US wants to stand up to Russia in Europe & China/NK in Asia.
Sending ships to the SC Sea is similar to what NATO is doing in the Black & Baltic Seas: show the flag & the ability/will to go there. For all its bravado, the US didn't stop China from taking the Philippine claimed areas. Japan claims r more important to get involved over than those of the former colony.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarborough_Shoal_standoff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_claimed_by_the_Philippines#Scarborough_Shoal

https://amti.csis.org/dutertes-scarborough-shoal-moment/

So now you assume a genocide on the french people in French Polynesia and New Caledonia. Your rants get more funny evry day.
I have news for you. The majority of New Caledonia population is ethnic french. And their political opinion is far right. Majority even voted for le Pen.

And please...Chinas national parks. The nr. one reason for natural destruction is china.

Look what always amuses me is your artificial hate for france.

So now you assume a genocide on the french people in French Polynesia and New Caledonia.

I'm not like u to justify genocide- don't project ur twisted worldview on me.

And please...Chinas national parks. The nr. one reason for natural destruction is china.

at least they r doing something before it's too late. China is a developing country & all others went through this stage before it. It's easy to criticize her after most of production moved there. U want to contain China, surround it by bases, causing her to spend more on defense, & then complain that they don't spend enough on preventing pollution & environmental destruction. Lately, they started cracking down on it & investing in cleaner energy.

Look what always amuses me is your artificial hate for france.

being objective isn't = being hateful; if u hate things I point out when refuting ur silly arguments, it's ur problem. People like u r shallow & don't see the forest for the trees.

Tsavo Lion wrote:

So now you assume a genocide on the french people in French Polynesia and New Caledonia.

I'm not like u to justify genocide- don't project ur twisted worldview on me.

And please...Chinas national parks. The nr. one reason for natural destruction is china.

at least they r doing something before it's too late. China is a developing country & all others went through this stage before it. It's easy to criticize her after most of production moved there. U want to contain China, surround it by bases, causing her to spend more on defense, & then complain that they don't spend enough on preventing pollution & environmental destruction. Lately, they started cracking down on it & investing in cleaner energy.

Look what always amuses me is your artificial hate for france.

being objective isn't = being hateful; if u hate things I point out when refuting ur silly arguments, it's ur problem. People like u r shallow & don't see the forest for the trees.

When will China put death penalty on those involved in rhino hunting? or turtle hunting.

By the same token, France could demand the Japanese to stop whaling & killing dolphins for meat!

Tsavo Lion wrote:By the same token, France could demand the Japanese to stop whaling & killing dolphins for meat!

Japan hunts mink whales. Their numbers rise. Look another example

When will China put death penalty on those involved in rhino hunting? or turtle hunting.

Japan allowed the Fukushima NPP 3 reactors meltdown & resulting radiation leaks that r poisoning their own fisheries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster

French & US nuclear tests did the same + got people exposed in the S. Pacific.
U worry about rhinos or turtles more than people being slaughtered with French weapons in Africa & the ME? FYI, they have strict laws about smuggling & corruption- some criminals were executed for that &/ similar crimes.