Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

Tsavo Lion wrote:

Borei subs were designed to be quiet and to operate from ice-free oceans unlike previous soviet subs which had to hide under the ice thus limiting their area of operations

wrong: even if they r less noisy, the combined Western ASW assets will still find & sink them in ice-free oceans, esp. since they'll need to navigate choke points & lack surface ships to oppose the adversary's ASW ops.

..operations in the north or just friendly waters would be enough considering the range of the missiles these subs carry.
Another factor is that in times of tension those navigable choke points can be sailed through before anyones starts launching missiles... once they are through then they have an enormous area to hide in with little chance of being detected by western ASW forces...

GarryB wrote:..this makes sending SSBNs to those waters a good idea because it is an enormous area they can use to hide in, and they also have enemy SSBNs to hide amongst too... so when they have launched their SLBMs they can use some torpedos hunting enemy SSBNs.

BTW a few depressed trajectory SLBMs fired from a Russian pier to detonate underwater would eliminate any hydrophone array... probably permanently... suddenly no gap...

I love your confidence... we are talking about very quiet vessels they will have serious problems detecting and tracking them... they could follow a cargo ship or LNG carrier and hide in its shadow making them even harder to detect...

Even assuming they get out of the sub alive what are their chances realistically in the arctic waters? 20 minutes maybe? No chance sorry.

Even assuming they get out of the sub alive what are their chances realistically in the arctic waters? 20 minutes maybe? No chance sorry.

GarryB wrote:......
I think what he is saying is that they have one range set up for SLBMs to be tested so the fact that Bulava is only launched in one direction during exercises is for this reason... if they couldn't launch the missiles from the Northern or Pacific Fleet general locations then they wouldn't base their subs there.

The are fully operational and able to attack their designated targets, but to launch their missiles during tests and collect meaningful data on the results they have to launch in one direction at one target range.

Interesting factoid, small thread: all Russian SLBM tests as of lately were from West to East. 1) makes sense to test SSBNs closer to production facilities, 2) western testing ground Chizha (Archangelsk region) needs serious modernization to receive all test control equipment 1/2

That’s why there were no test launches by two Borei class SSBNs since they were transferred to the Far East in 2013-14. This is compensated by the rotation of SSBN crews between Northern and Pacific fleets. But at some point Chizha will have to be modernized 2/2

Tsavo Lion wrote:They may have accidents in peacetime- & it happened many times before. 1 sunk off Bermuda in 1986: https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/09/01/k219/

PapaDragon wrote:

GarryB wrote:......
I think what he is saying is that they have one range set up for SLBMs to be tested so the fact that Bulava is only launched in one direction during exercises is for this reason... if they couldn't launch the missiles from the Northern or Pacific Fleet general locations then they wouldn't base their subs there.

The are fully operational and able to attack their designated targets, but to launch their missiles during tests and collect meaningful data on the results they have to launch in one direction at one target range.

So title has nothing to with content

Problem was simply lack of targeting range in west of the county and not any issue with missiles

https://web.archive.org/web/20191101100540/https://twitter.com/baklitskiy/status/1189697949544206338?lang=ro

Interesting factoid, small thread: all Russian SLBM tests as of lately were from West to East. 1) makes sense to test SSBNs closer to production facilities, 2) western testing ground Chizha (Archangelsk region) needs serious modernization to receive all test control equipment 1/2

That’s why there were no test launches by two Borei class SSBNs since they were transferred to the Far East in 2013-14. This is compensated by the rotation of SSBN crews between Northern and Pacific fleets. But at some point Chizha will have to be modernized 2/2

So we are now going back to that idiotic article which claimed that two Borei subs in the Pacific are not operational because their missiles are not being test fired

And like I sad before it's all BS, subs have been on patrols this whole time

 

Tsavo Lion wrote:They would be transiting & patrolling away from all traffic, & wouldn't want to depend on others to hide under & be rescued. Why risk losing subs, sailors, secrets & prestige?
Russian SSGNs & SSNs with tactical nukes or conventional CMs that can hit coastal NPPs now patrol off the US anyway- no need to send SSBNs outside their bastions.
Besides, the Poseidons r not long in coming into service; their subs won't be going too far either.

Isos wrote:https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2020/january/7985-russian-submarines-to-get-unguided-shells-to-break-ice.html

Russian submarines to get unguided shells to break ice

Research into Russia’s fifth generation subs well in progress — Navy’s commander

GarryB wrote:Well actually scramjet technology raises some interesting possibilities.... a scramjet powered missile is really only limited by heat technology, so in theory the Zircon land attack and anti ship missile could, over time get bigger and faster and much longer ranged to the point where it is moving at such high speeds it is skimming across the top of the atmosphere with range potential of 10,000km or more at say mach 25 plus and you have to say that when it gets to that point... how is it any different from a SLBM?

• Lower altitudes with better ability to deal with air density and drag, which makes it a more difficult target to track for ground radars using radar horizon, or satellite systems trying to track it.
  
  1st stage brings it to its flight ceiling, but unlike ballistic missiles where no additional stages are given once they reach their flight ceilings, scramjet missiles use their 2nd stage engines throughout their entire flights meaning they have no slowdowns compared to ballistic missiles.
  
  Lower altitudes and high speeds create plasma density conditions favorable for stealth making the missile a difficult target to track.