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    Russian Liberal Opposition

    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

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    Russian Liberal Opposition - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  KoTeMoRe Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:32 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Wait a minute, I'm not proposing anything new, because:

    1. I'm not Russian guys. I'm from Albania. I got enough problems thinking about my own country and region. Balkans ghetto, best ghetto, now opening in Greece.

    Than don't demand things you are not in position to demand in the first place. You are no russian, you have no plan who should replace the current leadership than why demanding the current leadership in russia to step down? Such a thing would only do two kinds of people naive fools or people who benefit from a weak russia.


    Wow so who decides who's got a plan and who doesn't? Isn't it the people, Russian at at that? What you're saying is that we're not in a position to change anything, so let the men in the know deal with that...Which is typically a US conservative motto. AND typical of the German class system. Naive fools? Hahahaha. Having a guy for 20 years in power is a NO GO. That's simple. Structures from a same party yes, same guy no. That's a fact son.


    3. I'm criticizing what I see as a byproduct of chaos. People want order at all cost. Doesn't work like that. Order benefits the power. Blocks will benefit the majors. Now that there isn't an ideological and systemic rift, that capitalism is the way to go, there is even little to do against US bullshit. It's freaking easy. That's the point. The US makes it look easy. When I push my son to take a look at my adoption cases so he can have a little edge vs his friends. He says it's boring, a chore to do. That's indeed the case. But work is boring for the most part. It is a chore. That's something you don't see from the US. Now it's all about how through IT you can beat the market, earn millions and shit. Yeah lol, no kidding. It might be the future, but people will always need to work, eat, sleep, make love and litigate.

    People want order to all cost is the product of the controlled MSM that constantly spreads fear that we fucking europeans are somehow in jeopardy from some religious fanatics the US and its puppets have financed themselfs or that somehow Iran or North Korea is a threat to the world next to russia while their record speaks otherwise. You have to counter the fearmongering from Western controlled MSM.

    There is alot to do to counter US bullshit and currently Russia is doing it. People who say there is nothing that can be done either have a very low education on that political field or are just right out missplaced to talk about politics at all. I already have shown you several things that can be done but you stick to the bullshit that the USA is 2012 and will finish us all, the US is already finished its fall is inevitable.

    Which isn't true, Order is what is wanted when people want a job, social services, accountability, they want a perennial system. Again it doesn't work like that with a system that thrives on competition. What can be done? Tell me? Where do you find the capital, where do you hedge your bets? How do you counter "MSM" when you can't produce anything with more finesse than a Rhino on LSD?

    RT is a Rhino on LSD. There are lots of good glimpses it can offer. But then they're marred with guys that have their head deep in their asses. The Anti-Migration tune of the "experts" on some reels in just suffoccating.

    When I push my son to take a look at my adoption cases so he can have a little edge vs his friends. He says it's boring, a chore to do.

    That is the problem under Soviet Union there was an ideology for progress and education, there were many kids going to schools and actually enjoying it, today it is the oppossite. What problem i have with people like you is your mindset. You are thinking out of personal, short term and not collective long term point of view. If you want to change this that the kids today value time wasting garbage with unimportant time consumers rather than thinking about future, than there is little you can do alone but there is alot you can do from a political point of view. You have to restablish what i constantly say, the passion and ideology for education and science. There are many professions today seen as some dead end job without honor while in Soviet times being a teacher was one hell of prestige job, being responsible for the education of the next generations and building own future. Today it is the opposite, we have incompetent teachers that just are teachers because it is a safe job which can't be fired from unless you committ murder or rape the kids, but being a bad teacher you will not lose your job or being even partially racist will not be a reason to fire you at least that is how it is here in germany and in some other western countries.

    Yes that is true. But you can't do that beyond a certain level. You can't just do that that way today. You can start whole Agit-Prop programs with the current cream of the crop of crooks in Russia. It's as simple as that. It's a hornets' nest.

    4. If RT is your view on countering propaganda, then you're crazy (no offense). RT is just offerring the same kind of shit, but with Russian flavour. I see lots of guys that know their stuff and can be VERY good at demonstrating points in detail, but "THAT CRAP IS BORING". Having someone demonstrate that Yanukovich wasn't more of a crook when compared to the current clique, will be an investigative piece of an hour at best. And most of the appeal would be lost to Radio Free Europe's 'BUT HE ORDERED THE POLICE TO SHOOT'. That's the very issue I'm telling you. RT is already a low value system. It has many flaws, JUST like the "Free Media".

    If you see RT as an useless tool to balance the monopoly of narrative the west brings than you clearly have no idea how politics works. Softpower is the king of war and peace. If you think RT is bad than you clearly have no buisness in geopolitics. The content is not the same, RT is not spreading fear and warmongering rhetorics to demonize countries or to coverup stories to invade other countries. It is surely not what i would want to have as the standard for News and Journalism, but you are a fool if you believe Media can be free. The actual free media are people that do it as a hobby and have only a couple of hunred views or maybe thousands views and have no income. This are comercialized media for the purpose of representing a narrative and that is important if you like it or not, but RT is doing a great job of countering the propaganda and it indeed has broke the total Monopoly of western controlled MSM where western people seek now alternative news. You can call RT whatever you want but it is an important and good step of breaking this "Ruzzian evil" garbage.

    RT becomes useless as soon as you do fact checking. Same for any MSM. Preying on lazy people isn't opening their eyes, it's just confusing them a little more. But I agree that RT doesn't have hour long programs on HOW Obomber is a blood sucker.

    5. Europoors are knee deep with Ze Germans. They don't have ANY other alternative as long as they are in the EuroZone and EU. Poland's Agriculture 25%, Poland Trade almost 30% (with remittances); Czech Rep 30% of its economy is on German hands. It's a fact. Numbers don't lie.

    Everyone that use wrong examples and does not see the politics behind it is someone that does not understand geopolitics. It is not germany, germany is a Proxy embassy of the US. The EU is an US construct with Germany next to Brussel as the administrative which is directed and supervisioned by Washington. Don't even believe for a moment that Germany is some souvereign state doing it all out of own interest, it is not. No politician in germany has severed the last 70 years for german interests but Washingtons. People should realize that, because this Devide at impera is working exactly in this manner, using  Germany as the evil power over the countries that have been defaulted via IMF and US to canalize the hatred against each other rather where the hatred should go towards Washington
    .

    The issue however is that while Divide ed Impera might be a good tune it simply isn't. While Germany is unarguably toothless as a EU leader, it still generated enough around itself to create a situation in which the Europoors forget their woes and issues and start playing the Rasha bad tune. Hence the case.


    6. Brics are way to different to be as focused as you think into a specific direction. China wants its share of Asia, Russia wants none of the EU shenanigans, India wants to fit but can't and Brazil is running a way to good business with Europe and USA to make any decisive strategic choice. South AFrica...No Comment.

    All this is not done to take a dump on Russia, it is to instill a sense of sanity. There is a need to have a sane relationship with both the EU and USA. Off course being Majdanozed isn't it. And the Russian answer, although not palatable is a clear sign it won't tolerate BS.


    Yes, you are right that they all want to serve their own interest, but they won't be able without BRICS, because the western market is a closed one for US asslickers only, meaning they are doing it out of own interest on a mutual basis, if they like it or not. That gives at least some freedom for economical shift and not relying on an evil controlled market which the West abuses and uses against countries that are not licking their bum.

    There is not basis to have any relationsship with USA at all, it is an evil empire that is playing european and all other countries around the globe against each other for the US gain. Russia needs to counter the russophobic views created by US in europe to have their good relationships. The problem for Russia are only from Germany and the countries in between. They need to counter the russophobia in Poland, the failed states of baltics, romania, bulgaria, czech and ukraine other than that Russia does not need to get more narrative spreading across europe at all. Germany is a crucial and vital part for good relationships with entire europe that is why US does everything to undermine russian and german relationships.

    There is nothing good or evil in politics. It is only about power.


    Side note:

    -On the economic part. Going all French Revolution on rich Russians will not solve anything. It's a matter of system. Russia has a self-destructive system when it comes to money. Non withstanding corruption. This is the norm all over the former Second world. You will only redistribute shady money and have smaller piranhas replace the sharks. BTST.
    What is needed is simply retard-proof, Zealot like bureaucrats. You have a good bureaucracy, the private sector will get FAR more inventive and trasnparent. Right now, it is a joke. I don't think that the CBR isn't part of the issue, I think that the CBR's woes now it is independent will reverse when it will be enslaved. IE it will react far slower and without independence. Letting the Ruble float was a very good move, too bad it came after the State had burnt 100 bln USD.

    There is a change needed but from own experience privatization and bureaucracy it is definitley not the way to go. Corruption here in germany is the 2nd most corrupt country on this planet after US and we are the most bureacratic country. The corruption is just legalized and canalized more or less making corruption a legal thing by loopholes everywhere, hard for small buisness but a dreamland for big buisnesses to be corrupt. You have no idea how the big gap between the corruption in russia and in Germany is. Germany beats the shit out of russia in corruption. It is just freaking subtile empowered by laws and loopholes in laws and the population is knowing it but they don't see the extent of it. Believing that a PRIVATE bank will respond in favor of a country is just lying to yourself. Private banks are only interested in private income and currently the constitution overrules the treaty obligations the CBR has to take control and stability of the Ruble, it was one of the major factors of burning the forex money.

    Bureaucracy is needed because no one gives a fuck about procedures. A huge part of the deal is respecting procedures. It gives the apparences of order. This is a good way to neutralize the whole TI rankings. Again on the FOREX milking, it had almost nothing to do with the Ruble, it has to do with the fact the FOREX market in RUssia is still seen as a way to make money by people who normally would have their money put in long term projects. Fast cash. That's something that Europeans don't do. Because they don't have that much cash sitting around. This is a byproduct of grey economy and a Russian state of mind.
    Again it is a matter of system.

    -The executive part. People are going to want some change. Even simply a face swap. FFS even the PolitBureau did that. I know that first hand. It's how politics work. I'm not demanding for Putin to step down NOW. NOT even in the near future. But 3 terms are enough.

    That is exactly what you demand, putin to step down, he is in his third period. Demanding such a thing is retarded. Question who do you want to see next? I want a name a party?

    That is the problem people are only scratching on the surface to politics but are the first to demand things without understanding the consequences. You can not change the system just by replacing people who are currently working for CHANGEMENT. The next people that will be leading we don't know them yet, there is no one on the horizont that would do even a 100th percentage of what Putin did. Demanding change without solution is retarded, get more involved in inner politics and geopolitics before demanding.

    That is how bloody revolutions come, people yelling for Change, peasants they are no plan of politics or how to change things are glad to overthrow one or to see someone gone and to see someone new than to realize ohh shit it is worse than before, which is called the fucking USA, every asshole of president did worse, Clinton, Bush, Obama and next will be Hillary Clinton and FFS if under her there are no nukes flying than this must be the proof for gods existence, because people are stupid enough to excuse every WW3 scenario under this vile creature.

    Revolutions come because the political, economic and social situation becomes dire. There's inertia everywhere. Don't talk about revolutions when you haven't been in the middle of one. In Russia there is still growth, there is still potential. It is still a young system. With lots of room for improvement. AND appearences to keep. I told you, you can have a system, without having a face. What Russia risks, is becoming a one face-state. And the West works hard to reduce it at that. Putin this, Putin that.

    People who are working for changement? Let us say that the said breed requires more than Rogogo and Shoigu. Russia is undergoing an ethical rebuilding. Let it be the best possible. Having one grandpa reign in the kids will open open the pandora box when the grandpa will retire.
    Werewolf
    Werewolf

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    Russian Liberal Opposition - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  Werewolf Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:40 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Wow so who decides who's got a plan and who doesn't? Isn't it the people, Russian at at that?  What you're saying is that we're not in a position to change anything, so let the men in the know deal with that...Which is typically a US conservative motto. AND typical of the German class system. Naive fools? Hahahaha. Having a guy for 20 years in power is a NO GO. That's simple. Structures from a same party yes, same guy no. That's a fact son.

    Citizens do. I say you are not in position to change that, you are not a russia citizen such duties fall only for citizens of a country and no country ever should dictate around what is best for another. That is not a conservative motto, it is a fact. I asked you who the fuck you want to see up there. You could not answer this question, i asked you what you want to change you did not answer the question. If there is no alternative either you provide one with an own party or you are bound to stay with Putin which is the best option there is right now with some minor options which have disadvantages of no political experience but a good policy like PVO. Having a guy for 20 years is a No GO? Really having stupid and harmful exchanging faces for 100 years is even worse, better same guy with progress for 20 years than 5 idiots that are doing the exact oppossite and selling a country out every period.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Which isn't true, Order is what is wanted when people want a job, social services, accountability, they want a perennial system. Again it doesn't work like that with a system that thrives on competition. What can be done? Tell me? Where do you find the capital, where do you hedge your bets?  How do you counter "MSM" when you can't produce anything with more finesse than a Rhino on LSD?

    RT is a Rhino on LSD. There are lots of good glimpses it can offer. But then they're marred with guys that have their head deep in their asses. The Anti-Migration tune of the "experts" on some reels in just suffoccating.

    How is that not true? Is RT not showing that Syria is attacked by US terrorists and that the same terrorists are good in Syria but bad in Iraq? Is RT not showing the involvement of US in the entire Ukraine coup de etat? I already told you what can be done, if you don't provide parolle you will be just overthrown with the current anti russian bullshit from the west, counter it or fuck off there is no other option.

    More finesse? Like i said you clearly did not understand the entire geopolitical basis of medias. RT was the first attempt, it was a pilot of trying to break the Monopoly of western controlled Mass Media and it is a total success, it broke the monopoly, there are more westerners watching RT than russians. If you have a limited budget and resources you don't spread your resources to create small baseless narratives to counter something. You will never get media finesse from state budget, they have very specific interests and interests have to be fought for and that does not work they way you want to see it. It does not matter what you believe or think fact is RT is a total success story for what it was designed for, the monopoly is broken now the job is to expand on that and provide more and not just narratives.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Yes that is true. But you can't do that beyond a certain level. You can't just do that that way today. You can start whole Agit-Prop programs with the current cream of the crop of crooks in Russia. It's as simple as that. It's a hornets' nest.

    That is wrong, if the west can do it with much more Corruption so can russia, they just need once and for all PURGE the fucking 5th column and period. You don't like that of course but are constantly yapping, if you don't provide solutions that keep the yapping to yourself because yapping did not help anyone, solutions are needed, provide some or search for them.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    RT becomes useless as soon as you do fact checking. Same for any MSM. Preying on lazy people isn't opening their eyes, it's just confusing them a little more. But I agree that RT doesn't have hour long programs on HOW Obomber is a blood sucker.

    Fact checking what exactly, give me examples please? It is not preying on lazy people, that is what has been the narrative or RT and they made it pretty clear, don't watch just RT watch other sources and watch different points of views, because basing political education on only one will make you biased and that is correct. I personally would say don't watch MSM at all and RT is not MSM because it is not mainstream but contra, but of course you can see on MSM where the governments are trying to shift personal opinions. When they start fearmongering against a country you know the US already has its hands in it, as soon they start demonizing a man you know they see their oil or money hegemony in jeopardy.

    What RT is pathetic at is to get a basic position in germany which is a game changer, entire Germany is the crucial factor for US, if they don't open eyes of germans that US is not our ally but our enemy they will never change the politics. The problem here is our german MSM is not even german, the head of ZDF is in US while ZDF is actually only a national Media with some channels for Switzerland and Austria but other than that no one else gets it, but the headquarters are somehow in US, suspicious to say the least.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    The issue however is that while Divide ed Impera might be a good tune it simply isn't. While Germany is unarguably toothless as a EU leader, it still generated enough around itself to create a situation in which the Europoors forget their woes and issues and start playing the Rasha bad tune. Hence the case.

    There you are wrong, we currently have in Europe this Divide ed impera tune, europeans are getting blame at each other for crisis while all are direct against but at the same time against Russia, because US does not want to fight themselfs against russia they once again want stupid europeans to march against the bear.

    There is a good quote from Game of Thrones, "Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow. "

    That is the point where russia needs to play against. Germany has no power, but EU citizens where fooled to believe it, so use this believe, free Germany from Washington narrative and the rest of EU will follow that example. Germany is game changer for the entire Washington policy on european continent as soon you change that crucial part the rest will fall apart.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    There is nothing good or evil in politics. It is only about power.

    There is evil in politics, if the demise and decimation of people serves the fear and warmongering to create false flag like MH17 false flag, Tonkin or Pearl Habor to justify your actions than yes that is truelly evil, it just a sad truth.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Bureaucracy is needed because no one gives a fuck about procedures. A huge part of the deal is respecting procedures. It gives the apparences of order.

    So you want just an illusion of order just like we have in the west? What kind of problem solving is that to just take the blue pill and flee into an illussion while the problems only get worse where people don't even see the problems and the state can do any sinister things they want protected by the illussion of order and protection. Good thing russia is not going this retarded way and good they keep Putin up. I rather would leave in a bad reality than live in a dream illussion while vile scum is doing anything possible to steal more effeciently and to keep the intellectual depopulation in place. I do not want to live in that system and appereantly russians don't want that either.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    This is a good way to neutralize the whole TI rankings. Again on the FOREX milking, it had almost nothing to do with the Ruble, it has to do with the fact the FOREX market in RUssia is still seen as a way to make money by people who normally would have their money put in long term projects. Fast cash. That's something that Europeans don't do. Because they don't have that much cash sitting around. This is a byproduct of grey economy and a Russian state of mind.

    Yes, the Forex milking had to do little with ruble, but it was used as reason for it and the CBR is the big part in that by directing the solutions and decisions how to deal with it. The solution is to seize property and money of those speculators and throw them out of the country, but of course you don't like that it is to harsh, always wanting change but never wanting take actions against those scum. You are very wrong on that part with europeans, they even have more corrupt system with milking the cash that is safed up like in Forex, they just do it more secretive and in different manner, but the result is the same they steal money and much more than russia has, it is called the ECB and ESM every year bln euroes are shred out from countries and pumped in the arses of private banks. This little 100 bln are just peanuts compared to 700 bln capital that is milked and kept at its highest limits every god damn year. They already have milked countries taxes with over 500 bln since 2008 followed by already pre-planed bailout money with over 1 trln. This is how this bureacracy system is milking the countries to bail out private banks which stole and steal money from the people, who are running in default but the people are milked out.

    So much of your western bureaucracy way.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Again it is a matter of system.

    -The executive part. People are going to want some change. Even simply a face swap. FFS even the PolitBureau did that. I know that first hand. It's how politics work. I'm not demanding for Putin to step down NOW. NOT even in the near future. But 3 terms are enough.

    A face swap, people don't want a fac swap the approval ratings show exactly that. Face swap won't do jack shit anyone that demands a face swap with expectations for the better is bloody peasant that has no understanding of politics and has no other solutions to offer but a damn face swap.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Revolutions come because the political, economic and social situation becomes dire. There's inertia everywhere. Don't talk about revolutions when you haven't been in the middle of one. In Russia there is still growth, there is still potential. It is still a young system. With lots of room for improvement. AND appearences to keep. I told you, you can have a system, without having a face.

    The current revolutions are color revolutions, orchastrated bullshit from the west. There was no genuine revolution in russia since fall of USSR. I understand a revolution and a revolution is not a revolution without an idea, bloody peasants screaming for change without a revolutioneer that proposes solutions is not a revolution.
    I would love to see a system without a face, but any country on this planet is far away from reaching that.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:What Russia risks, is becoming a one face-state. And the West works hard to reduce it at that. Putin this, Putin that.

    I still fail to see how is Putin to be blamed for that? If there is no fucking alternative to him other than Navalny, Nemzovs and other shits that are paid to be new yeltzin than how is that the fault of Putin?

    Provide genuine politicians that want russia to progress with better policy than Putin and United Russia party can offer and give the people a genuine option than you can have it your way, but you can not just demand Putin to step back when there is no alternative but 5th columnists from the West and i say it again only a RETARD or 5th columnist themselfs would suggest that.

    People who are working for changement? Let us say that the said breed requires more than Rogogo and Shoigu. Russia is undergoing an ethical rebuilding. Let it be the best possible. Having one grandpa reign in the kids will open open the pandora box when the grandpa will retire. [/quote]
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

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    Russian Liberal Opposition - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian Liberal Opposition

    Post  KoTeMoRe Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:21 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Citizens do. I say you are not in position to change that, you are not a russia citizen such duties fall only for citizens of a country and no country ever should dictate around what is best for another. That is not a conservative motto, it is a fact. I asked you who the fuck you want to see up there. You could not answer this question, i asked you what you want to change you did not answer the question. If there is no alternative either you provide one with an own party or you are bound to stay with Putin which is the best option there is right now with some minor options which have disadvantages of no political experience but a good policy like PVO. Having a guy for 20 years is a No GO? Really having stupid and harmful exchanging faces for 100 years is even worse, better same guy with progress for 20 years than 5 idiots that are doing the exact oppossite and selling a country out every period.

    The idea is here that we are discussing out of hand. You're currently in Germany and yet you're defending a position within Russian political landscape. The world shouldn't be US or Them. Because it is the shortest way to what is going on Ukraine. And Ukraine is the epitome of what happens when your country stagnates for two decades and has no other option but to go full retard or stay the course. If the choices are of binary type, you are bound to fuck up half the time.

    Werewolf wrote:
    How is that not true? Is RT not showing that Syria is attacked by US terrorists and that the same terrorists are good in Syria but bad in Iraq? Is RT not showing the involvement of US in the entire Ukraine coup de etat? I already told you what can be done, if you don't provide parolle you will be just overthrown with the current anti russian bullshit from the west, counter it or fuck off there is no other option.

    More finesse? Like i said you clearly did not understand the entire geopolitical basis of medias. RT was the first attempt, it was a pilot of trying to break the Monopoly of western controlled Mass Media and it is a total success, it broke the monopoly, there are more westerners watching RT than russians. If you have a limited budget and resources you don't spread your resources to create small baseless narratives to counter something. You will never get media finesse from state budget, they have very specific interests and interests have to be fought for and that does not work they way you want to see it. It does not matter what you believe or think fact is RT is a total success story for what it was designed for, the monopoly is broken now the job is to expand on that and provide more and not just narratives.
    Syria had its fair share of problems before being attacked by the cream of the crop of the Petro-Monarchies. It was stalling on many levels. Some of them were due to foreign meddling (Hariri killing, Syrian workers repatriation after 2005), some were due to the very system that Hafez had put in place.

    This is what makes the whole narrative of RT unbearable on various occasions, because it does the same thing the Western MSM does, in reverse. Assad had a secular regime, true, he also had gaols for secular opposition. Assad is under attack, true, but a bunch of Assad's opponents are people that don't give two fvcks about democracy. It's just a good opportunity to break free for the Kurds. You can have an intelligent assessment of the situation without simplifying too much. Otherwise you end up with the US situation. Fighting its minions in Iraq, supplying the in Syria, bombing Iranian-backed people in Yemen, relying on them in Iraq. This is the confusion, simplification causes for the public. Typical IS chaos...


    Fact checking what exactly, give me examples please? It is not preying on lazy people, that is what has been the narrative or RT and they made it pretty clear, don't watch just RT watch other sources and watch different points of views, because basing political education on only one will make you biased and that is correct. I personally would say don't watch MSM at all and RT is not MSM because it is not mainstream but contra, but of course you can see on MSM where the governments are trying to shift personal opinions. When they start fearmongering against a country you know  the US already has its hands in it, as soon they start demonizing a man you know they see their oil or money hegemony in jeopardy.

    Man there are enough examples out there. The lines to Russian/ UA border in april, Some reiterations there were no Russian troops in Ukraine (while we all know and have seen columns moving out of UA through Tarasov). Some idiotic petty propaganda RT has recouped like Photoshopped Swastikas on UA MTLB's.

    I directly seek the sources where they are. I'm not bound to RT.


    What RT is pathetic at is to get a basic position in germany which is a game changer, entire Germany is the crucial factor for US, if they don't open eyes of germans that US is not our ally but our enemy they will never change the politics. The problem here is our german MSM is not even german, the head of ZDF is in US while ZDF is actually only a national Media with some channels for Switzerland and Austria but other than that no one else gets it, but the headquarters are somehow in US, suspicious to say the least.

    Germany is a game changer, but the problem is that German political elites don't give two fvcks about popular counscience.



    There you are wrong, we currently have in Europe this Divide ed impera tune, europeans are getting blame at each other for crisis while all are direct against but at the same time against Russia, because US does not want to fight themselfs against russia they once again want stupid europeans to march against the bear.

    There is a good quote from Game of Thrones, "Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow. "

    I don't see the EU leadership blaming themselves regarding Russia. They tried their hand in 2013 they failed, got to back up plan, failed again. Now it's sanctions time.

    That is the point where russia needs to play against. Germany has no power, but EU citizens where fooled to believe it, so use this believe, free Germany from Washington narrative and the rest of EU will follow that example. Germany is game changer for the entire Washington policy on european continent as soon you change that crucial part the rest will fall apart.

    What I see is a disruptive force in WDC that worked hard on the sidelines as the bad cop, and made it happen.

    There is evil in politics, if the demise and decimation of people serves the fear and warmongering to create false flag like MH17 false flag, Tonkin or Pearl Habor to justify your actions than yes that is truelly evil, it just a sad truth.

    Still nothing Evil, it is just a means to an end. Politics are Amoral by definition.

    So you want just an illusion of order just like we have in the west? What kind of problem solving is that to just take the blue pill and flee into an illussion while the problems only get worse where people don't even see the problems and the state can do any sinister things they want protected by the illussion of order and protection. Good thing russia is not going this retarded way and good they keep Putin up. I rather would leave in a bad reality than live in a dream illussion while vile scum is doing anything possible to steal more effeciently and to keep the intellectual depopulation in place. I do not want to live in that system and appereantly russians don't want that either.

    The illusion of order is needed to confound and disprove the idea that Russia is different. Rule exist to make sure everyone breaks them, but while not getting caught.

    Yes, the Forex milking had to do little with ruble, but it was used as reason for it and the CBR is the big part in that by directing the solutions and decisions how to deal with it. The solution is to seize property and money of those speculators and throw them out of the country, but of course you don't like that it is to harsh, always wanting change but never wanting take actions against those scum. You are very wrong on that part with europeans, they even have more corrupt system with milking the cash that is safed up like in Forex, they just do it more secretive and in different manner, but the result is the same they steal money and much more than russia has, it is called the ECB and ESM every year bln euroes are shred out from countries and pumped in the arses of private banks.



    Europeans don't have the same level of liquidity. That's why Europe is having big issues with any kind of common policy. I don't like drastic problems presented as super solutions

    This little 100 bln are just peanuts compared to 700 bln capital that is milked and kept at its highest limits every god damn year. They already have milked countries taxes with over 500 bln since 2008 followed by already pre-planed bailout money with over 1 trln. This is how this bureacracy system is milking the countries to bail out private banks which stole and steal money from the people, who are running in default but the people are milked out.

    Bureaucracy? Bureaucracy was against the bailout, it was the political leadership that broke all the seals and said fvck it we're having a party.Technocrats would have you dead and buried if that would help with their models.

    You call burning a 100 bln in three months nothing? That's the epitome of insanity. The defensive posture that the State took was directly undermined by the Forex market.

    So much of your western bureaucracy way.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Again it is a matter of system.

    -The executive part. People are going to want some change. Even simply a face swap. FFS even the PolitBureau did that. I know that first hand. It's how politics work. I'm not demanding for Putin to step down NOW. NOT even in the near future. But 3 terms are enough.

    A face swap, people don't want  a fac swap the approval ratings show exactly that. Face swap won't do jack shit anyone that demands a face swap with expectations for the better is bloody peasant that has no understanding of politics and has no other solutions to offer but a damn face swap.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Revolutions come because the political, economic and social situation becomes dire. There's inertia everywhere. Don't talk about revolutions when you haven't been in the middle of one. In Russia there is still growth, there is still potential. It is still a young system. With lots of room for improvement. AND appearences to keep. I told you, you can have a system, without having a face.

    The current revolutions are color revolutions, orchastrated bullshit from the west. There was no genuine revolution in russia since fall of USSR. I understand a revolution and a revolution is not a revolution without an idea, bloody peasants screaming for change without a revolutioneer that proposes solutions is not a revolution.
    I would love to see a system without a face, but any country on this planet is far away from reaching that.

    FFS where do you think politicians grow on trees? Those able professionals that can change the system for good are faced with a simple system. Either with or against United Russia. This is good enough for a transition, it isn't any good for the future. You say provide politicians, why? Why principles should be bend because you can't think straight for a moment. This current discussion is a perfect example. You are defending a Statu Quo that in the end will always end up in stagnation.



    Revolutions, again stem from inertia, injustice and graft. The violence is just a bonus.
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    Post  Werewolf Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:33 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    The idea is here that we are discussing out of hand. You're currently in Germany and yet you're defending a position within Russian political landscape. The world shouldn't be US or Them. Because it is the shortest way to what is going on Ukraine. And Ukraine is the epitome of what happens when your country stagnates for two decades and has no other option but to go full retard or stay the course. If the choices are of binary type, you are bound to fuck up half the time.

    I am not defending anything i just state FACTS, you are the one living outside russia but demanding for Putin to step down without any proposal who should come afterwards and how they should deal with the problem. So how is that ok for you but not ok for me?

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Syria had its fair share of problems before being attacked by the cream of the crop of the Petro-Monarchies. It was stalling on many levels. Some of them were due to foreign meddling (Hariri killing, Syrian workers repatriation after 2005), some were due to the very system that Hafez had put in place.

    This is what makes the whole narrative of RT unbearable on various occasions, because it does the same thing the Western MSM does, in reverse. Assad had a secular regime, true, he also had gaols for secular opposition. Assad is under attack, true, but a bunch of Assad's opponents are people that don't give two fvcks about democracy. It's just a good opportunity to break free for the Kurds. You can have an intelligent assessment of the situation without simplifying too much. Otherwise you end up with the US situation. Fighting its minions in Iraq, supplying the in Syria, bombing Iranian-backed people in Yemen, relying on them in Iraq. This is the confusion, simplification causes for the public. Typical IS chaos...

    So what? US has its problems lets start financing terrorists getting them into US, starting bombing US citizens and seize government buildings and than justify everything that has been done on RT that the US had problems before and that now the russian backed terrorists have justification to bomb US. This BS is no justification for anything, there is no country on earth without problems and just because countries have problems does not justify terrorism against them to overthrow their leaders. Syria was doing damn fine before that, that is the reason why the West was sending terrorists to Syria, because they were doing fine and are not bowing down to kiss US arses and because they are chess piece on the board to get closer to russia and weaken it.


    RT is not reporting BS lies, it does not need to cover shit that has nothing to do with US terrorists in Syria, one is not connected to the other. Who says that Syria should become "democratic" it is for Syrians to decide what political system they have to adopt, it is their own process to get to the point to decide their political system and just because they are not "democratic" does not justify attack on them. The simplyfication that is at hand on RT is this two narrative, showin faked US airstrikes against ISIS targets, which never show targets just empty cars in nowhere without showing any sign of human life form and the fact that ISIS is the US terrorist group that is FSA/AL-Caida/Taliban that are the good guys in Syria but the bad guys in Iraq and RT does mention that but they do not state that as an dogma. They leave room for discussions there. It might be a problem for people who know politics but for people that try to get a different narrative and with the constant bullshit of RT being just propaganda lies, they try to keep things lower profile than western MSM bullshit where they declare already what something is or is not before you ever have heared of someone or some group. That one western propaganda is called suggestive manipulation what RT does is indication.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Man there are enough examples out there. The lines to Russian/ UA border in april, Some reiterations there were no Russian troops in Ukraine (while we all know and have seen columns moving out of UA through Tarasov). Some idiotic petty propaganda RT has recouped like Photoshopped Swastikas on UA MTLB's.

    I directly seek the sources where they are. I'm not bound to RT.

    You know joking right? There were no photoshoped swastikas, they are there till this very date they use Wolfsangelrute,SS and Swastikas on their tanks, helmets and flags, nothing of that is photoshoped. There were no russian columns in Ukraine, pleace show me the evidence of Tank COLUMNS inside of ukraine. You can find enough video material of swastikas,SS and Wolfsangelrute symbols through out ukraine and please don't tell me this bullshit that they are all photoshoped. Sounds like TR1 denying that ukrops having nazi battalions. Enough footage of ukropians driving with tanks with Right Sector, US and whatever symbols and flags around.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Germany is a game changer, but the problem is that German political elites don't give two fvcks about popular counscience.

    That is why russia should give a fuck and give a different point of view, because if they don't then we will have WW3 scenario of retarded europeans getting played against each other.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    I don't see the EU leadership blaming themselves regarding Russia. They tried their hand in 2013 they failed, got to back up plan, failed again. Now it's sanctions time.

    EU members are not blaming themselfs regarding Russia, they are blaming each other with crisis such as Greece against Germany and Germany portraying greeks as some folk of lazy wasteful plebs with the constant notion that IMF tries to help which is the root of the EU crisis and greeks position with the austerity measures which have crippled the greeks economy and conditions even further.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    What I see is a disruptive force in WDC that worked hard on the sidelines as the bad cop, and made it happen.

    That can't be left unattended.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Still nothing Evil, it is just a means to an end. Politics are Amoral by definition.

    99% of population will disaggree with you. False Flag attacks and terrorism to push for political means is evil. So if there is no evil in politics than why not spread terrorism everywhere, it is not evil and not unethical like you say. Let us just blow up everyone who disaggrees with me because that is terrorism and terrorism is political tool to get what i want and by your defintion that is not unethical.

    Seriously you should get see doc.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    The illusion of order is needed to confound and disprove the idea that Russia is different. Rule exist to make sure everyone breaks them, but while not getting caught.

    Wow, once again please go see a doctor. Instead of a real order with working laws and mechanisms to keep stability and order you just want an illusion but with continuing shit mechanism.... I am not even sure if a doctor can help that is just exactly how Westerners are doing what they have been doing for past 100 years.


    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Europeans don't have the same level of liquidity. That's why Europe is having big issues with any kind of common policy. I don't like drastic problems presented as super solutions

    They have the liquidity that is called the ESM with an annual budget of 700 bln that is by law to be paid by EU members and the budget since 2008 is constantly at its limits.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Bureaucracy? Bureaucracy was against the bailout, it was the political leadership that broke all the seals and said fvck it we're having a party.Technocrats would have you dead and buried if that would help with their models.

    You call burning a 100 bln in three months nothing? That's the epitome of insanity. The defensive posture that the State took was directly undermined by the Forex market.

    So much of your western bureaucracy way.

    No they were not, because the bureaucratRATS sit in ECB in Frankrfurt and in Brussels they were the bureaucrats that have decided, no one else had any legitimacy to decide for bailout or not that is what the ESM is for ruled by Brussels unelected shitholes.

    It is you who compares one corruption with another and states false facts. The corruption here in our western countries is far higher, they are just well established and subtle while the russian one is the oppossite, that however does not change anything and by going our shit western way of illusionary stability and order you just open the doors for heavier corruption and by the end you just defeat russia from within and kill its population. Yeltzin 2,0.

    Russia does good, despite the CBR burning money and not bein seized and federalized, as soon the narrative of the West changes from Russia evil to russia partner you can be sure there is a traitor president selling out the country.



    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    FFS where do you think politicians grow on trees? Those able professionals that can change the system for good are faced with a simple system. Either with or against United Russia. This is good enough for a transition, it isn't any good for the future. You say provide politicians, why? Why principles should be bend because you can't think straight for a moment. This current discussion is a perfect example. You are defending a Statu Quo that in the end will always end up in stagnation.


    Revolutions, again stem from inertia, injustice and graft. The violence is just a bonus.

    No, i state only facts. It is you an non russian citizen demanding russian leadership to step down and by MAGIC wishfull thinking someone will do a better job, while the entire landscape of other politicians show that they are harmful for russia either being paid by west or being incompetant to say the least.

    You can't change the system by demanding the ONLY current political party and leadership doing the things that HAVE to be done for progress and they are having progress and then somehow expect someone will do it, because that is not how it works.

    I defend Putin because he is doing a fucking great job, by having already federalized and brought back russian resources under russian hand unlike the Shit PSA (Partner Sharing Aggreement) that was signed by oligarchs like Khordokovsky and Yelzin where Russia had even to pay US and UK oil companies like BP and shell so they drilled for russian money and russian oil while Russia was paying to costs for the drilling. What a wonderful world. It is only Putins leadership that made this happen by LEGAL means to reverse this PSA Aggreement and to seize back russian oil and companies and now they are earning money.

    If you have no solutions than just stop demanding things and expect magic things will solve problems which are currently are trying to be solved.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:12 pm

    If RT is your view on countering propaganda, then you're crazy (no offense).

    If you want to suggest RT is just the other side of the same coin as CNN and FOX and the BBC then you are wrong... RT actually has plenty of Americans... actually more than I would prefer, who are not traitors to America, but would be considered traitors to the current governments and the government structure as it stands today.

    If you think a bit of chaos to get change is good, then we disagree. Czechoslovakia managed to split into two separate countries without chaos or war... the chaos of a revolution in a country with nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them around the globe might appeal to you, but I would suspect only the American government would find that an appealing situation, but only because it would present an opportunity for them to interfere and get control... something no Russia should find appealing.
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    Post  Vann7 Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:30 am

    Very interesting report a must read...

    What drives Russian liberals to self-hatred is that they see their country and people through western eyes

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-liberals-explained-5-minutes/ri7761

    i have some really good theories as to why 5th column exist in Russia.. and
    why most Ukrainians and why many Russians move to Europe and US..

    Lets see if anyone can guess why Russian liberals exist in Russia.
    also self hating Russians..

    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:52 am

    Vann7 wrote:Very interesting report a must read...

    What drives Russian liberals to self-hatred is that they see their country and people through western eyes

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-liberals-explained-5-minutes/ri7761

    i have some really good theories as to why 5th column exist in Russia.. and
    why most Ukrainians and why many Russians move to Europe and US..

    Lets see if anyone can guess why Russian liberals exist in Russia.
    also self hating Russians..


    To the biggest extend the same reason why lot of polish are russophobes, they were told to not to be slavic that they are western and everything eastern are barbars in caves.

    Liberals are an special group of idiots that are destryoing countries. Loberalism, the extend the west has brought are those scums that are happily destroying cultures, revisionise history to such an extend that it has even less truth then the enemies propaganda over a defeated enemy. A folk that has no culture and no past has no future. Liberals are indoctrinated and directed idiots to destroy exactly this basis of any civilization. If you have no past you have no direction meaning no future, so they first destroy your Past to change your future (direction) and someone who has no ideals, goals or future will be easier to control and direct to a specific harmful future where only the leader can benefit. Western extreme Liberalism is canceruous to every society. Of course such extreme Liberals existed during Soviet Union but that were to the end a minority. You can see in russia those political parties who call themselfs liberals are entirely anti-russian and entirely Pro-USA, which again when looking at who the leaders of those parties are have been caught red handed several times being paid or orchastrated from US embassy in Moscow, Nemtsov was one of these scum.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:45 am

    Vann7 wrote:Very interesting report a must read...

    What drives Russian liberals to self-hatred is that they see their country and people through western eyes

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-liberals-explained-5-minutes/ri7761

    i have some really good theories as to why 5th column exist in Russia.. and
    why most Ukrainians and why many Russians move to Europe and US..

    Lets see if anyone can guess why Russian liberals exist in Russia.
    also self hating Russians..



    A lot of them are not ethnic Russian. In fact, many of them are a species of Banderite with deep family ties to Ukraine.
    Navalny is one such maggot. In Ukraine itself, you a similar pattern. Poroshenko's family line is from Romania and he
    isn't even a Slav. I know that the divisions are not this simple, but I see too many non-Russians posing as Russians
    and bashing Russia. If they hate it so much, then why don't they just do the natural thing and move to either where
    their own tribe is, or move to the precious west. And breathe the air of freedom. Everyone would be so much better
    off.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:43 am

    kvs wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Very interesting report a must read...

    What drives Russian liberals to self-hatred is that they see their country and people through western eyes

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-liberals-explained-5-minutes/ri7761

    i have some really good theories as to why 5th column exist in Russia.. and
    why most Ukrainians and why many Russians move to Europe and US..

    Lets see if anyone can guess why Russian liberals exist in Russia.
    also self hating Russians..



    A lot of them are not ethnic Russian.  In fact, many of them are a species of Banderite with deep family ties to Ukraine.
    Navalny is one such maggot.   In Ukraine itself, you a similar pattern.  Poroshenko's family line is from Romania and he
    isn't even a Slav.   I know that the divisions are not this simple, but I see too many non-Russians posing as Russians
    and bashing Russia.  If they hate it so much, then why don't they just do the natural thing and move to either where
    their own tribe is, or move to the precious west.  And breathe the air of freedom.
      Everyone would be so much better
    off.

    Like ex-pat Dagastani's and Chechens, the problem is once they leave Russia they end up having a vendetta against Russia, so they end up wanting some form of vengeance, whether it's setting up IED's and road side bombs (in Russia, or in pro-Russian countries), or trolling cyberspace.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:33 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Very interesting report a must read...

    What drives Russian liberals to self-hatred is that they see their country and people through western eyes

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-liberals-explained-5-minutes/ri7761

    i have some really good theories as to why 5th column exist in Russia.. and
    why most Ukrainians and why many Russians move to Europe and US..

    Lets see if anyone can guess why Russian liberals exist in Russia.
    also self hating Russians..



    A lot of them are not ethnic Russian.  In fact, many of them are a species of Banderite with deep family ties to Ukraine.
    Navalny is one such maggot.   In Ukraine itself, you a similar pattern.  Poroshenko's family line is from Romania and he
    isn't even a Slav.   I know that the divisions are not this simple, but I see too many non-Russians posing as Russians
    and bashing Russia.  If they hate it so much, then why don't they just do the natural thing and move to either where
    their own tribe is, or move to the precious west.  And breathe the air of freedom.
      Everyone would be so much better
    off.

    Like ex-pat Dagastani's and Chechens, the problem is once they leave Russia they end up having a vendetta against Russia, so they end up wanting some form of vengeance, whether it's setting up IED's and road side bombs (in Russia, or in pro-Russian countries), or trolling cyberspace.

    I am afraid that they have left the mental reservation and cannot be saved even if they stay in Russia. At least in the west
    they get a chance to learn how to hate Uncle Sam. In Russia they just hate Russia and Russians. Dagestan and Chechnya
    are examples of Wahabbi recruitment efforts. They are able to dupe some fraction of the population to turn into jihadi idiots.

    But there has been a lot of success in quarantining these lunatics to their Caucuses homelands in recent years. It would be
    nice if Navalny buggered on off to Banderastan.
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:11 pm

    Russian liberals are mostly ethnic Russians, including the ones who ruined Russia in the 90s and led to all the problems in the Caucasus, ignored the Ukraine and did nothing while it slowly turned into Banderastan, etc...

    Sorry to burst your bubbles guys.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:47 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Russian liberals are mostly ethnic Russians, including the ones who ruined Russia in the 90s and led to all the problems in the Caucasus, ignored the Ukraine and did nothing while it slowly turned into Banderastan, etc...

    Sorry to burst your bubbles guys.

    In any organization there are "most people". The key is who are the deciders. Too many of the deciders amongst the kreakls fits
    my observation.
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    Post  AirCargo Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:53 am

    Russian scientists stage rare anti-government demo.

    AFP By Anna Smolchenko, Olga Rotenberg

    Moscow (AFP) - Russian scientists staged a rare anti-government demonstration Saturday as fears mount that they will be next in the line of fire after Kremlin crackdowns on the media, rights activists and the opposition.

    Several thousand protesters including scientists and intellectuals took to the streets of Moscow to express fears for the future of scientific research, which is becoming mired in red tape and mismanagement.

    Prominent opposition figures including top activist Alexei Navalny joined the rally.

    Protesters held up placards reading "Authorities are strangling science", "Nobel laureates are foreign agents" and "Putin cannot solve problems, he is the problem".

    Astrophysicist Boris Shtern told the rally: "Alas, science is slowly dying. The massive advance of ignorance is being supported by the media and authorities."

    The protest was originally called in support of a top private foundation whose 82-year-old founder, philanthropist Dmitry Zimin, has come under fire for financing Russian science from overseas accounts.

    Discontent among scientists has been brewing for months but the crackdown against Zimin's Dynasty Foundation sparked acute anger and disbelief.

    The justice ministry in late May added the ex-telecoms magnate's Dynasty foundation to its list of "foreign agents" under a law that critics say is designed to muzzle critics of President Vladimir Putin.

    Zimin, a widely respected former radio engineer who spent millions of dollars supporting scientific research, has threatened to shut down his foundation, demanded an apology from the authorities and temporarily left Russia.

    An AFP correspondent said more than 2,000 people turned up at the rally, while activists counted some 3,500 participants.

    Antonina Aleksandrova, a biologist at a cancer treatment centre, slammed the attack against Zimin's foundation whose grant recipients include groups promoting liberal values.

    "For the country to develop, it needs education," Aleksandrova told AFP.

    "The Dynasty is an egregious example of how an organisation that played a huge role in this education has been crushed."

    "It is a significant loss for us all."

    Some rally participants held books published with the help of Zimin's fund.

    Physicist Vladimir Olshansky said he found the current atmosphere of "lies and obscurantism" offensive.

    He said the Kremlin was threatened by free-wheeling scientists and their independent-minded benefactors.

    "The authorities believe that they themselves know who to give money to."

    Chemist Efim Brodsky added: "What's happening threatens the country more than science."


    - 'Only reason to stay' -


    Critics accuse the Russian government of boosting defence spending at the expense of science, education and health care as tensions with the West run high.

    Some have said that Russia appears to be losing its competitive edge in space, pointing to a recent string of mishaps.

    Many supporters praise Zimin as a rare Russian philanthropist who instead of flaunting his wealth like many fellow tycoons chooses to support a young generation of scientists.

    "Without the Dynasty young scientists would begin leaving the country abruptly," Mikhail Nikitin, a 32-year-old biologist, told AFP, adding that he was finishing a book he was hoping could be published with the help of the fund.

    "For many young scientists the Dynasty's grants were the only reason to stay in Russia," he said.

    More than 250 Russian scientists, most of them working abroad, signed an open letter in support of Zimin, saying they were "outraged and extremely worried" by the pressure on the fund and its possible consequences.

    Zimin's foundation has a 2015 budget of 435 million rubles ($7.7 million at the current exchange rate).

    "My money is kept abroad," Zimin, who founded mobile telecommunications giant VimpelCom in 1992, told Russian reporters. "But Russia also keeps its money abroad."

    The Dynasty will convene a meeting on Monday to decide its future strategy.

    Putin signed the law on "foreign agents" in 2012, after huge opposition protests, and described the legislation as "self-defence" against the financing of political activities in the country from abroad.

    Scores of rights groups resent the tag carrying connotations of Cold War espionage.
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    Post  AlfaT8 Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:04 am

    AirCargo wrote:Russian scientists stage rare anti-government demo.

    AFP By Anna Smolchenko, Olga Rotenberg

    Moscow (AFP) - Russian scientists staged a rare anti-government demonstration Saturday as fears mount that they will be next in the line of fire after Kremlin crackdowns on the media, rights activists and the opposition.
    Unless these "crackdowns" include massive amount of riot police, water cannons, tear-gas and rubber bullets, then there not "crackdowns"

    Several thousand protesters including scientists and intellectuals took to the streets of Moscow to express fears for the future of scientific research, which is becoming mired in red tape and mismanagement.
    I wish they went into more detail about these "red tape and mismanagement" issues, but i guess there not worth mentioning.

    Prominent opposition figures including top activist Alexei Navalny joined the rally.
    "Prominent" is not the word i would use to describe someone like Navalny and the man is barely an "opposition figure", he is without a doubt a pathetic media whore who gets all his attention by positioning himself as sort of anti-Putin figure sort of like the girl from Pussy-Riot.

    Protesters held up placards reading "Authorities are strangling science", "Nobel laureates are foreign agents" and "Putin cannot solve problems, he is the problem".
    Well sure,i guess lack of finance strangles science/ Considering Obama got a Nobel prize, then yea the laureates might as well be foreign agents/ Yea, bringing Russia back from the grave didn't involve any problem solving at all. Rolling Eyes

    Astrophysicist Boris Shtern told the rally: "Alas, science is slowly dying. The massive advance of ignorance is being supported by the media and authorities."
    I'm confused is he talking about Russia or the U.S, if U.S then he's totally right, if Russia then he's a F'ing idiot.

    The protest was originally called in support of a top private foundation whose 82-year-old founder, philanthropist Dmitry Zimin, has come under fire for financing Russian science from overseas accounts.

    Discontent among scientists has been brewing for months but the crackdown against Zimin's Dynasty Foundation sparked acute anger and disbelief.

    The justice ministry in late May added the ex-telecoms magnate's Dynasty foundation to its list of "foreign agents" under a law that critics say is designed to muzzle critics of President Vladimir Putin.

    Zimin, a widely respected former radio engineer who spent millions of dollars supporting scientific research, has threatened to shut down his foundation, demanded an apology from the authorities and temporarily left Russia.
    Not really sure what going on here so i'll leave this for kvs and sepheronx

    An AFP correspondent said more than 2,000 people turned up at the rally, while activists counted some 3,500 participants.
    So, how many of these people were actual scientist and how many were just there for Navalny?

    "Antonina Aleksandrova, a biologist at a cancer treatment centre, slammed the attack against Zimin's foundation whose grant recipients include groups promoting liberal values.
    Values crap again.

    "For the country to develop, it needs education," Aleksandrova told AFP.
    Russia has one of the best edution systems in the world, the hell is this idiot talking about.

    "The Dynasty is an egregious example of how an organisation that played a huge role in this education has been crushed."

    "It is a significant loss for us all."
    How was it crushed, it was added to a list not bombed to dust.

    Physicist Vladimir Olshansky said he found the current atmosphere of "lies and obscurantism" offensive.

    He said the Kremlin was threatened by free-wheeling scientists and their independent-minded benefactors.
    "independent-minded benefactors" have become serious threats to all non-western aligned countries, politically anyway, not sure of there effects on science community though.

    "The authorities believe that they themselves know who to give money to."
    kvs and sepheronx all yours

    Chemist Efim Brodsky added: "What's happening threatens the country more than science."
    True, that's why they made the foreign agents law

    - 'Only reason to stay' -


    Critics accuse the Russian government of boosting defence spending at the expense of science, education and health care as tensions with the West run high.
    First of all, who are these so called critics
    Second, why are they blaming everything on the Military budget and not the sanctions
    Third, of course the military budget is getting increased, they are rearming.
    Fourth, do not think that Russia is as stupid as the U.S and the E.U, to sacrifice "science, education and health care"

    Some have said that Russia appears to be losing its competitive edge in space, pointing to a recent string of mishaps.
    Any one else wanna take this.

    Many supporters praise Zimin as a rare Russian philanthropist who instead of flaunting his wealth like many fellow tycoons chooses to support a young generation of scientists.
    All well and good

    "Without the Dynasty young scientists would begin leaving the country abruptly," Mikhail Nikitin, a 32-year-old biologist, told AFP, adding that he was finishing a book he was hoping could be published with the help of the fund.
    This brain-drain crap agian

    "For many young scientists the Dynasty's grants were the only reason to stay in Russia," he said.
    Guess there's no patriotism in these youngsters

    More than 250 Russian scientists, most of them working abroad, signed an open letter in support of Zimin, saying they were "outraged and extremely worried" by the pressure on the fund and its possible consequences.
    Yes, clarifying where funds actually go may put a lot of people's Swiss bank accounts in danger

    Zimin's foundation has a 2015 budget of 435 million rubles ($7.7 million at the current exchange rate).

    "My money is kept abroad," Zimin, who founded mobile telecommunications giant VimpelCom in 1992, told Russian reporters. "But Russia also keeps its money abroad."
    Not all of it's money

    Putin signed the law on "foreign agents" in 2012, after huge opposition protests, and described the legislation as "self-defence" against the financing of political activities in the country from abroad.
    Yap, sounds about right.

    Scores of rights groups resent the tag carrying connotations of Cold War espionage.
    Yea, blame the state, not the foreign powers constantly using these organisation as fronts to cause internal instability.
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    Post  kvs Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:53 am

    Perhaps Boris Shtern and the rest of the malcontents can bugger on off to their promised land the USA. I am sick and tired
    of this slime speaking on behalf of Russians. You are nothing but maggots who would rather see all Russians nuked out of
    existence to please your beloved NATO.

    Funny how they were not making a peep under Yeltsin and when things were still really tough 10 years ago. But now that
    the money is starting to percolate through the system they come out like worms from the woodwork. Reminds me of what
    happened in Ontario under the NDP government. We had the government unions stage massive demonstrations because
    the Ontario Premier, Bob Rae, had a plan to reduce the number of total work days (and hence total pay) to the civil service
    to save money. This was actually a very good solution since there would be no mass layoffs. Thanks in part to these idiots the
    NDP was replaced by the regime of Mike Harris and his "common sense" revolution. About 14,000 civil servants were laid off
    and there was not a single demonstration by the unions. Very interesting and a good indication that these unions serve another
    master much like Boris Shtern and the rest of the idiots demonstrating in Russia and making hysterical and demented slander
    against Russia.
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    Post  kvs Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:04 am

    This Dynasty Foundation smells as does the behaviour of its owner. He who pays the piper calls the tune and it is a bad
    thing for Russian science to depend on funding from offshore sources with unclear agendas. You can tell from this
    demonstration that the money has strings attached and some scientists are being duped into thinking that Navalny
    and the "non system" opposition is something good. The offshore money is buying the loyalty of these scientists and
    hence turning them into 5th columnists. Even if they mean no harm, they are clearly buying into the colour revolution
    agenda of Washington. In other words, they are useful idiots. Some of them are outright militants like this Shtern clown.

    In case it is not clear, science is funded by the government in Canada and the USA. Most science does not have an
    immediate commercial value so private funding is not normal. These malcontents believe the NATO propaganda
    line that everything the Russian government does is bad and Putin is the evil at its core. Putin won at the ballot box
    and has 85% support currently. But that means nothing for these self-righteous, duped idiots.
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    Post  sepheronx Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:10 am

    Meh. There were plenty of protest from the so called scientific community. How much of them are actually in science? Who knows. But having Navalny in your group just ruins whatever credibility they had.

    Science is supposed to be funded by either government or none affiliate groups. Obviously this ngo who was under a specific group clearly was doing unscrupulous activity as I heard the head fled the country.

    Anyway, if these so called patriots want to leave, let them. Scientific development hasnt changed in Russia as Tomsk has proven that fact. If many leave, many will get new jobs as there will be openings. As long as there is money, there will be work. Add to that, they have been crying about brain drain but doesnt appear evident.
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    Post  sepheronx Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:36 am

    I will add, that i do not agree with all of Russia's policies regarding about the education/science system, but it shouldn't come down to relying upon an "NGO" in order to provide for it.  If it is really as bad as they say, then the scientific community should actually work towards building their OWN NGO that doesn't obtain funds from simply outside sources.  should be the base of the NGO - "No outside governments can fund it" and simply rely upon their own sponsors from local businesses, croud funding, and domestic government.  Then they can use that collective money to help the scientific field.

    There is absolutely no reason why they should obtain funds.  Instead of fleeing and hosting a "protest", they could simply state their case in public and showcase their funds, and where they go to and where they came from and state why where when how, etc.  Doing so, they may actually save their damaged image and everything can go back to normal.  If you have a "protest" with some unknown people and some people who make stupid statements (Only reason why they are here is because of money or they would have left Russia, etc), and be tied to someone who was completely corrupt back in the 90's with a bad image to boot; they could be far more productive like I mentioned.

    There is absolutely no reason why they should rely upon a foreign entity whom has questionable ethics, for their funding. One thing that should come to light is what kind of research are these people doing? And the other question that should be raised is "why is this group handing out funds to some sort of Liberal NGO authority? If the money is meant for science, it shouldn't be handed to some third party whom is not involved in scientific research". Simply put, that will actually give these people a question they cannot answer, and then question themselves.

    I remember when that main scientific institute in Russia was merged with another organization, many scientists with Navalny did the same thing - Protest (I think the protests were even larger) with lots of people saying the same Rhetorics about "we will leave the country, brain drain, only reason we are here is because: (insert bullshit claim), etc" and it amounted to nothing. Give it some time, most wont even remember the name of this NGO that was assisting science (or so they claimed).

    People in Russia need to become far less dependent on foreign NGO's to help them. Foreign NGO's for the most part are there to do what they are told by their respective governments or are agents. I have so far not heard of an NGO organization that didn't have an agenda that was benefit for the country they were in (even NGO's in the US and Canada that are funded from our own country men can be very questionable as well). Instead, they should be relying upon their own people and their own institutes. Rostec and Rusnano are the only ones that are REALLY indulged in scientific research and technology development. Schwab is an example. Tomsk State university may be the only exception where they are their own entity and have so far published a ton of new scientific papers in technology than maybe any other university in the country. And this is where it is also should be done mostly, in Universities and in the companies themselves researching the technology. Universities and Libraries in the past used to be the go to place for scientific research and development. That changed, mostly in US, when it moved towards the private sector, but majority of it is very questionable, like how the tobacco companies fund "scientific Research" that concludes to the benefit of the big companies.
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    Post  AirCargo Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:35 am

    Alfa T8 wrote:This brain-drain crap agian

    Russian Liberal Opposition - Page 4 Number%20of%20people%20who%20have%20left%20russia
    avatar
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    Post  Vann7 Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:26 am

    Business Insider.. LOL  What a trash media you post.


    Im goign to repost.. what i told in another discussion and the reply of others of this Foreign Agent NGO.. so more educated people can comment.. not like the guy above..



    me:

    Didn't Obama says Russia invents nothing? that is only a gas station? and here they have an NGO stealing talent from Russia? This Foreign NGO ,is nothing more an Spy agency that seeks to identify best Russian students and steal them away from Russia and put them to work for US defense Industry. This is treason. No one give away Millions for "promoting science" ,they can go to AFRICA or Middle east instead and they will find millions of students there to "promote science" there if they want. After Russia invest so much money from its budget for a high quality free education to Russian people. Free healthcare and free apartment for students.that later comes a Rogue nation and steal the talent ? Give me a break. Americans should take their money and invest it in their own failed education system, instead and stop interfering for once in the development of other nations.This have nothing to do with promoting Science but stealing talent away of Russia every year. This is how US maintain its defense industry updated.. stealing foreign talent from other nations. And is not surprise majority of PHD Scientist in USA are foreigners with visa.It was about time this NGO of Thieves of Scientific talent was banned. US or any foreign nation should take their money and fund their own education instead and stop stealing talent from others and interfering in the development of others nations.

    reply by @Erik Trete:
    It more than just NGOs stealing top talent. Google for example is a prime example of Western companies setting up a "development lab" in Russia, then transferring the best talent to their corporate labs in California.


    So basically this American NGO is a spy agency that identify Russian students best
    potential scientist but also Professors  and lure them away of Russia to work for US laboratories
    and defense Industry.. Shocked

    Imo if this is the case.. im wondering how the hell the NGO was not banned before and
    Russia allowed the dirty hands of Americans to steal the best talent of Russia? This is treason.
    allowing such Vampire agency to operate in RUssia..to steal talent..  No one give away millions
    for nothing.. even less American Government.. when they give millions is because they want something back..

    What is sickening about all this is the propaganda run by the defenders of the NGO.
    "NO science ,No future"  Rolling Eyes  IF the  Dynasty Foundation NGO is really interested in promote
    Science? Why they dont promote it in Africa and Middle east? there are millions there that
    could benefit of that "promotion".. Why they don't hire top scientist in the west to teach students in Russia? instead is the other way.. they create technology Labs in Russia and finance the equipment and the student or professors do the investigation and when they finish it.. they report the findings to the americans and explain the whole thing..

    So this is NOT a ban on science.. but on foreign nations to steal talent from Russia and
    a ban on foreign scientific copy of Russian research...  Imho Russia should take this law to a new level and ban foreign students from NATO countries to enter to study Engineering and Science in RUssia.


    Basically the NGO is Stealing research .. and could be used to steal intellectual property.
    stole classified information from Russia technology development and the things they working.
    Russia goes and spend billions dollars from its budget to give a high quality education to its people and later dirty American Government goes and take a free ride and buy knowledge for cheap that they later pass to American Laboratories and companies.

    If anyone remember when i told US government budget is 100% used to
    build a World Empire and take control of others..and to sabotage the technology development
    of their competition?


    Here @aircargo ,you will enjoy this..



    Imo i really think is treason , and should be paid with a high fine and or jail depending of the shared information with foreign nations. ,that a Russia student goes and study for free in Russia ,and get a high quality education ,free housing and Food and a dedication and help from University .and years later when he/she graduate ,they go and move to a foreign nation To share the knowledge they got from Russia Universities education.

    Treason indeed and laws in Russia should be more severe with the sharing of information to
    foreign nations hostile to Russia. and not even allow foreign students to take classes of Sciences and engineer in RUssia.. Unless is proven they are not there to steal knowledge.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:37 am

    AirCargo wrote:
    Alfa T8 wrote:This brain-drain crap agian

    Russian Liberal Opposition - Page 4 Number%20of%20people%20who%20have%20left%20russia

    Left to where?

    Take a closer look at the statistics; emigration to the US/Germany/Israel/etc... hasn't increased at all.

    It has increased substantially to ex-Soviet republics such as Uzbekistan, etc...
    Which is what's responsible for the jump in emigration.

    What does that tell you?
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:44 am

    "Without the Dynasty young scientists would begin leaving the country abruptly," Mikhail Nikitin, a 32-year-old biologist, told AFP, adding that he was finishing a book he was hoping could be published with the help of the fund.
    "For many young scientists the Dynasty's grants were the only reason to stay in Russia," he said.

    What I don't get, is that from my knowledge - this organization was never threatened with closure at all.

    It was put on the 'Foreign Agents' list due to it being funded from abroad, and the owner threatened to close it down himself.

    Yes the way these people are describing it - it's as if Russia itself is trying to close it down - which is not the case.
    So what the hell do they want? To change the law? If so then why are they whining about emigration and the imminent close-down of this foundation? This law has nothing to do with any of that.

    If they don't want the foundation to close down - they should take up the issue with the owner; it's his decision, not Russia's

    Why the heck is the owner making such a big deal out of his NGO being labelled a foreign agent anyway? If it's purely focussed on scientific research and grants than what is the harm of this status? It will only harm the reputation of those NGOs engaged in political activities.

    Yet this clown is threatening to close his whole operation down. Mighty suspicious it all is.

    And another thing

    "For many young scientists the Dynasty's grants were the only reason to stay in Russia," he said.

    This isn't the 90s, where the only help or finance scientists can rely on are those from some shady oligarch-philantropist (an oxymoron if there ever was one) with whatever private motives.

    There are many jobs; well-developed pharamaceutical, heavy industrial, engineering, space, nuclear, defence, etc... sectors, in all of which there is demand for scientists; and the pay in many of them is not too shaby either.
    In Academics, there is ongoing reform of universities, granted a lot of work has yet to be done - but still, there are grants and funds for scientists all over Russia - many of them have gone on the form start-ups and companies based on their innovations and research.
    There are many government programs and state-owned companies (e.g. Rosnano) too focussing on innovation, investing in start-ups and so on.

    And this tool is flapping on about some NGO and its grants.
    I call BS.
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    Post  Neutrality Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:20 pm

    Reposting

    Neutrality wrote:You guys remember the NGO law pushed by Duma? I think it's proving its use as the leader of "Dynasty" relocated to that other country. Apparently their leader got financial help from some foreign organisations (we all know who) and they have been using that money to fund other NGOs like "Liberal Mission" which I never even heard of. They also funded "research programs" with 2 BILLION roubles! Seriously, 2 fucking billion roubles from an NGO. These guys have some serious explaining to do and no wonder the rat fled before the prosecution could do anything. Good riddance. Let's hope other assholes like Navalny fuck off as well.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:18 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    I call BS.

    and I call it deliberate info warfare. Deliberate to create distorted image of Russia (drunkard producing nothing aggressive and dangerous in drunken berserk) also in eyes if Russian youth. Damn Kolyma uranium mines shall be main prize for NGOs not complying with laws or Russia.


    BTW as for Dynasty sponsor oligarch -pls not so much antisemitism lol!
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:26 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Meh. There were plenty of protest from the so called scientific community. How much of them are actually in science? Who knows. But having Navalny in your group just ruins whatever credibility they had.

    Science is supposed to be funded by either government or none affiliate groups. Obviously this ngo who was under a specific group clearly was doing unscrupulous activity as I heard the head fled the country.

    Anyway, if these so called patriots want to leave, let them. Scientific development hasnt changed in Russia as Tomsk has proven that fact. If many leave, many will get new jobs as there will be openings. As long as there is money, there will be work. Add to that, they have been crying about brain drain but doesnt appear evident.

    Navalny was pelted with eggs in Novosybirsk. No reports that ostrich eggs were used though.

    http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1421118/

    BTW I wonder why never I can read news in liberal press or better US sponsored about scientists who want return or did return to Russia under Putin? lol1

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