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    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 14, 2022 3:47 pm

    I think the grenade launcher is a valuable addition... it has a large HE grenade with a tiny propellent charge which allows large amounts of ammo to be carried in a smaller volume of space than 30 x 165mm ammo.

    Obviously the 30mm cannon round would be more effective with AP rounds and also the new air burst command detonated round would be more useful too, but the 30mm or a 40mm grenade launcher would be useful too...

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    Post  Regular Sun May 15, 2022 2:34 am

    flamming_python wrote:There is a version of that turret for the Typhoon-VDV vehicle but it's sans the 30mm grenade launcher to save weight

    This full-version has the 30mm autocannon, 7.62 PTKM co-axial to the auto-cannon, and the 30mm grenade launcher

    I think it was only mounted as a testing platform to see how it can function on such a light vehicle and to test para dropping capabilities and etc.

    Serial production of the turret is already started so I am sure we will same exact turret on Typhoon family vehicles with 30mm AGS


    Just as a comparison, Typhoon VDV has a different turret in the picture with a mortar. Also very interesting development as well as the rumors of 57mm on it...

    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 8 Image28


    Now real question is, will VDV become an actually wheeled force as well, these turrets bring them very close to IFV firepower and better protection than their tracked aluminum brothers in some cases.
    VDV also not long ago tested para dropping of 17+ tone Kamaz trucks for logistic purposes, have tested buggies, ATVs and etc.

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    Post  0nillie0 Mon May 16, 2022 9:34 pm

    As pointed out earlier, a version with ATGM's would be usefull for VDV units. A basic dual Kornet launcher mounted externally as seen on the modernised BMD-2 turret would already be a signifant upgrade in firepower.
    Another option would be a retractable launcher that can be reloaded under armor, but that would take up most of the space for the 30mm ammo. Such a variant could be armed with a HMG.

    IMHO this looks a bit less advanced in design and layout than the mockups we have seen on the next generation vehicles (Epocha RCWS etc...). I do hope this is not a matter of cutting costs and going for a more basic design for mass integration. If the VDV does become a "wheeled force", than i do hope we will see the integration of more advanced turrets on those vehicles that can support them.

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    Post  d_taddei2 Tue May 17, 2022 2:40 am

    It seems many forces around the world are buying into the world of small wheeled armoured vehicles that have decent mine resistance and various levels of armour mostly protecting from 12.7mm. these vehicles are meant to be highly mobile (in terms of speed) reasonable off road ability, small arms and mine resistant protection and to be cheap allowing them to be bought and deployed fast. While most countries have opted to armed theirs with 7.62, 0.50cal, AGS Russia has really raised the bar and made then in all variants, as I previously stated IFV level of firepower, powerful ATGW capable of killing modern tanks, or thermobaric missiles to burn out buildings, even mortars, multiple MANPADS, the west as far as I am aware haven't went to this level yet. Export potential is high, and Russia enjoys the fact that it has a weapon for every threat and every price, for example if kornet is deemed too expensive for a customer they can offer Metis M, or konkurs, shturm. The vehicles themselves are fairly cheap if needed could be abandoned as long as the crew can escape to fight another day it's no big deal, and they don't carry sophisticated systems. The variants are almost endless. Russia initially was slow to start such vehicles and bought the iveco from Italy to begin with then quickly realised the potential and usefulness of such a vehicle then rapidly built various designs, to the point I would say they are up there at the top of the designers and certainly number 1 in terms of firepower. Now they just need to get them into service in decent numbers. I would imagine BDRM-2 will all be removed from service to make way for these, although maybe some will be kept for naval infantry for beach landings.

    Does anyone have a list and numbers of the various types and variants in Russian service of these types of vehicles. There was talk a while ago that the iveco was given to border guards and to Syria although not sure how true.
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    Post  GarryB Tue May 17, 2022 8:04 am

    There is an enormous difference in performance and costs between a tracked vehicle and a wheeled vehicle, and while tracked vehicles obviously have advantages on soft ground even they can get stuck, but on hard roads a wheeled vehicle can cover ground much faster.

    Very early talk of armoured vehicle families for the Russian military included four types... Armata was heavy armour and tracked uses snorkles or bridges or shallow crossings, Kurganets was medium armour, amphibious and tracked, while Boomerang was medium armour Amphibious and wheeled 8X8... the Typhoon was supposed to be light and amphibious and wheeled and was to be a mix of 4x4 and 6x6.

    It seems they are putting 82mm mortars and 30mm cannon on the 4X4 Typhoons, so perhaps 120mm mortars and 57mm guns on the 6X6 vehicles?

    Is a 125mm smoothbore 6x6 possible?

    The Sprut is an 18 ton vehicle, whereas the Boomerang is a 25 plus ton vehicle so a Boomerang with a T-14 turret should be expected, but on a 6x6 vehicle the T-14 turret might have too much recoil making the Sprut turret and Sprut low recoil gun the turret of choice for a 6x6 Typhoon model "tank".

    Both 125mm guns have the same performance and use the same ammo... perhaps a new unmanned low profile turret for the Typhoon could be developed with the long recoil 125mm gun that could also be tested on the Boomerang base as well... or 125mm might just be too much and maybe a long barrel 120mm gun/mortar could be the "tank gun"... or perhaps the Typhoon based gun vehicle might have a 57mm gun mount.

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    Post  lyle6 Tue May 17, 2022 11:14 am

    0nillie0 wrote:As pointed out earlier, a version with ATGM's would be usefull for VDV units. A basic dual Kornet launcher mounted externally as seen on the modernised BMD-2 turret would already be a signifant upgrade in firepower.
    Another option would be a retractable launcher that can be reloaded under armor, but that would take up most of the space for the 30mm ammo. Such a variant could be armed with a HMG.

    IMHO this looks a bit less advanced in design and layout than the mockups we have seen on the next generation vehicles (Epocha RCWS etc...). I do hope this is not a matter of cutting costs and going for a more basic design for mass integration. If the VDV does become a "wheeled force", than i do hope we will see the integration of more advanced turrets on those vehicles that can support them.

    VDV fight as light infantry for the most part, so portable launchers they can take with them when they dismount makes more sense. These things also have paper-thin armor so its best not to get too attached.

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    Post  Hole Tue May 17, 2022 12:17 pm

    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 8 Fs8jzb10

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    Post  Hole Wed May 18, 2022 11:49 am

    The VDV as a whole will never be a wheeled service. The Taifuns are a substitution for old trucks and vehicles. Maybe a few units will be equipped only with such vehicles for special purposes, like peace keeping.

    I think the DBM turret will be the way forward for the BTR-82A. Unmanned. All ammo is outside the vehicle an it comes with 2 ATGM´s. First version with "old" wire-guided ones.
    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 8 000546
    If modernised with the new turret the old one could be used to modernize BMP-1´s.

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    Post  GarryB Thu May 19, 2022 1:34 pm

    The Typhoons are supposed to be an entire family of light wheeled vehicles with four by four and six by six versions depending on the role.

    For the VDV it is all about fire power and mobility a the expense of weight and armour, so wheeled vehicles offer good speed and decent mobility and the capacity to use shared standardised turrets with remote weapons is a bonus too.

    They will be at least MRAP standard protected, so better than the jeeps the SAS used during WWII in the desert.

    Boomerang is too heavy, as is Kurganets.

    The Typhoons are better armoured than those light four by fours they can load into Hips.

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    Post  AlfaT8 Thu May 19, 2022 1:44 pm

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