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    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs

    medo
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    Post  medo Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:38 pm

    I think this Spitsa combat module have one interesting thing, which is nowhere described. On the right side of the gun, there is a big box in front on which there is interesting rectangular plate. Is there posibility, that they instal radar there, like Fara-VR short range battlefield surveillance radar? It have 10 km range and could detect soldiers at range of 4 km and tanks at 8 km and could be used for aiming the gun.

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    Post  Hole Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:05 pm

    I guess it´s a small version of the antenna on the front of the 2S35 turret. Could be used to program shells even in flight.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:41 pm

    In one of the videos on the 2S38 thread one of the guns fires and a big flat sheet metal plate folds up so the empty shells can fall out over the top of the vehicles armour, so it might already be doing something like that unfortunately... but of course there is no reason why they can't fit other flat screen radar arrays, many of which they have already developed for their artillery vehicles to track outgoing rounds trajectories to make sure they are on target and to correct fire if they are not.
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    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Empty arktica apc

    Post  Hole Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:56 am

    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Dt-btr10
    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Dt-btr11
    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Dt-btr12
    So this is the frontal part of the new DT-BTR vehicle, at least a prototype.

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    Post  Hole Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:57 am

    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Dt-btr13
    Model

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    Post  George1 Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:44 pm

    The prototype of the two-link armored personnel carrier DT-BTR "Arktika"

    The next episode of the Chasovoy TV show (Channel One) shows the tests of the promising arctic two-link armored personnel carrier DT-BTR "Arktika" at the range of the 38th Research Institute of Armored Weapons and Equipment of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 89880210
    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 89883010



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    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Empty UVZ enterprise starts mass production of the Okhotnik combat module.

    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:37 pm

    UVZ enterprise starts mass production of the Okhotnik combat module. 

    The universal combat module "Okhotnik" developed and manufactured by NPO Elektromashina of the Uralvagonzavod concern has successfully passed qualification tests and has been put into mass production. The combat module will be presented at the Army-2021 international forum.

    In this version, a stabilized remote-controlled platform is in demand in the military for various purposes. Recently, a series of five "Okhotniks" was shipped to the Remdiesel enterprise for installation on Typhoon-K armored vehicles.

    "In 2020, five wheeled armored vehicles Typhoon K-53949 with combat modules "Okhotnik" took part in the parade on Red Square. This year, the "Elektromashiny" products for these vehicles were delivered after a number of improvements, in particular, a new Russian-made machine gun was installed on the combat module, which was created specifically for robotic complexes. Thanks to the modernization, the efficiency of hitting the Okhotnik on the target increased by 20-30%" – said Ivan Korolkov, Deputy General Director for Special Equipment.

    Also in 2021, the serial BM Okhotnik will be delivered to the UKBTM prototype vehicle and to the production equipment of several other Russian enterprises. The versatility of the module allows it to be used on special equipment of various branches of the armed forces, including land and engineering, from which applications for the Okhotnik BM have already been received.

    Source: 
    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Img_2124

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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:57 am

    in particular, a new Russian-made machine gun was installed on the combat module, which was created specifically for robotic complexes. Thanks to the modernization, the efficiency of hitting the Okhotnik on the target increased by 20-30%"

    That is interesting... a new machinegun. When they replaced the NSV utos 12.7mm HMG with Kord they improved the design to increase accuracy... I wonder if this is Kord or a further improvement?

    Can't see them considering Kord to be a new HMG these days so a newer design?
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:01 pm

    GarryB wrote:...Can't see them considering Kord to be a new HMG these days so a newer design?

    There are ergonomic requirements and compromises for human operated weapons

    Robots don't need those so they can focus on other features

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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:27 am

    True, but for mounted use a Kord or even an older Utes or DSHkM could have its human interaction bits removed (like pistol grips or spade grips and triggers and any stocks) and just have a cable with a solenoid firing mechanism for robot or vehicle mounts with no human interaction.

    I suspect they have optimised the gun design for something that will never be bipod operated or carried around a battlefield by a human or two so the mass and design of the barrel can be optimised for sustained fire and perhaps even water cooling (though looking at the image perhaps not the latter) and a mechanism and ammo feed system designed for inside a vehicle mount.
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    Post  George1 Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:58 pm

    Known new designations GABTU for new and modernized types of tracked infantry fighting vehicles and vehicles based on them (according to the web resource otvaga2004.mybb.ru):

    B-10 - armored personnel carrier BTR-G "Kurganets-25"
    B-11 - Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle
    B-12 - armored recovery vehicle "Kurganets-25"
    B-14 - BMP "Kurganets-25" with BO "Dagger"
    B-15 - BMP "Kurganets-25" with BO "Epoch"
    B-16 - BMP on the BMP-2 chassis with BO "Dagger"
    B-17 - BMP on the BMP-3 chassis with BO "Dagger"
    B-18 - BMP on the BMP-2 chassis with Epoch BO
    B-19 - BMP on the BMP-3 chassis with Epoch BO
    B-22 - BMP on the BMP-2 chassis with BO "Berezhok"
    B-23 - BMP on the BMD-2 chassis with BO "Bereg"

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4395404.html

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    Post  x_54_u43 Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:25 pm

    If they fucking put super modern 57mm cannon equipped turrets onto BMP-2 there should be mass purges.
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    Post  George1 Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:16 pm

    "Epocha" is a further development of "Bumerang-BM" 30mm or the same??
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:12 am

    x_54_u43 wrote:If they fucking put super modern 57mm cannon equipped turrets onto BMP-2 there should be mass purges.

    Sounds like a good way to test them tbh

    No-one's saying that they'll equip a large amount

    Besides, it's all part of commonality. If the new prospective turret can be equipped on both a Kurganets, or a Bumerang - and a legacy platform, then that should be taken advantage of to achieve economies of scale.
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    Post  lyle6 Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:31 am

    x_54_u43 wrote:If they fucking put super modern 57mm cannon equipped turrets onto BMP-2 there should be mass purges.
    The up-gunned Epoch turret retains the zero hull penetration of its 30 mm variant:
    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 00000002
    There's no reason why you can't transplant these turrets to new build T-15/K-17/B-11 vehicles
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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:00 pm

    According to the press release of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, "the latest B-19 combat vehicle with the Epoch combat module is equipped with a 57-mm automatic cannon, Kornet ATGM launchers and a new Bulat guided missile system with small-sized missiles to destroy firing points and lightly armored enemy equipment. A special feature of the combat module "Epoch" is the presence of an automated search system, recognition of enemy objects, their support and preparation and issuance of proposals to the crew of the combat vehicle for the simultaneous or alternate use of two channels of fire damage."

    So the turret can auto detect targets and allows two targets to be engaged at one time... presumably with the commander and gunner sights... so for instance the commander could lock a target and fire a Bulat or Kornet missile which would then free up the turret to be turned by the gunner to allow them to engage another target with perhaps a missile or a gun using the gunners sight while the commanders sight tracks the first target and guides the first missile with a laser beam.

    Very interesting...

    57-mm LSHO-57 low-ballistics automatic cannon

    So the 57mm grenade launcher is called LSHO-57.

    The actions of the robotic complexes were provided by the tactical laser complex "Quarry", the capabilities of which allow detecting and suppressing optical means of reconnaissance and surveillance of tanks, other armored vehicles and small arms of the enemy."

    So the robots have a system called Quarry that is a laser complex that allows them to detect and SUPPRESS optics... well that sounds like something they could use on manned platforms as well to suppress enemy snipers and enemy missiles with optical guidance like Javelin etc etc...

    From the bmpd side, we recall that the designation B-19 has a variant of the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle, equipped with the developed by JSC " Instrument Design Bureau named after him. Academician A. G. Shipunov" (KBP, Tula) with the new TKB-973 "Epoch" (32B01) unmanned combat module.

    So B-19 isn't the Kurganets BMP, it is the BMP-3 with the Epocha turret with the 57mm grenade launcher fitted.

    So with:

    B-10-armored personnel carrier BTR-G
    "Kurganets-25" B-11-infantry fighting vehicle "Kurganets-25"
    B-12-armored repair and evacuation vehicle "Kurganets-25"
    B-14 - BMP "Kurganets-25" with BO "Dagger"
    B-15-BMP "Kurganets-25" with BO "Epoch"
    B-16-BMP on the chassis of BMP-2 with BO "Dagger"
    B-17-BMP on the chassis of BMP-3 with BO "Dagger"
    B-18-BMP on the chassis of BMP-2 with BO "Epoch"
    B-19-BMP on the BMP-3 chassis with the BO "Epoch"
    B-22-BMP on the chassis of BMP-2 with BO "Berezhok"
    B-23-BMP on the chassis of BMD-2 with BO "Berezhok"

    That means the B-10 is the Kurganets with the Kord HMG small turret mount and is a BTR.
    The B-11 is the BMP for Kurganets but at the moment uses the Epocha turret with Kornet, Bulat, and a 30mm cannon.
    The B-12 is the BREM Kurganets vehicle (the Armata equivalent is the T-16).
    So B-14 is the Kurganets with the Kinzhal or Dagger turret, which has a 57mm gun (not sure whether it is the grenade launcher or the new S-60 type gun used on the 2S38 air defence gun vehicle) plus a machine gun and two ATAKA like missiles, but seems to not have the Ataka or Bulat missiles.

    So it is a BMP potential vehicle.

    The B-15 is the Kurganets with the 57mm grenade launcher Epocha turret with the Kornet and Bulat missiles so the Kurganets equivalent of the T-15 BMP.

    The B-16 and B-17 are BMP2 and BMP3 vehicles with the Kinzhal 57mm turret and B-18 and B-19 are BMP2 and BMP3 vehicles with the 57mm grenade launcher Epocha turret..

    The B-22 and B-23 are BMPs based on the Berezhok turrets for BMP2 and BMP3 respectively.

    So as a reminder this is the Epocha 30mm turret with Kornet and Bulat on the left and Kord small HMG remote turret on the right:

    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Dsc_0910

    While this is the Kinzhal or Dagger turret which I believe is the 57mm high velocity Au-220 cannon plus two ATAKAs:

    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Army2011

    And the Berezhok turret is just an upgraded BMP-2 turret with four ready to fire ATGMs with two on each side and a rear turret mounted grenade launcher and a 30mm cannon main gun:

    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Army2012

    A little interesting they didn't include the naval 57mm gun mount Au-220M... or the turret for the 2S38:

    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 5cw4a610

    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 58021610

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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:03 pm

    The up-gunned Epoch turret retains the zero hull penetration of its 30 mm variant:

    Which means replacing older turrets with these new turrets would increase their troop capacity while at the same time bringing them up to state of the art in terms of optics and weapons...

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:48 pm

    BMP-3, Kurganets-25, and BMP-2M
    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Flieg011

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    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Empty Armor field: why the Russian army needs new infantry fighting vehicles

    Post  franco Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:32 am

    Armor field: why the Russian army needs new infantry fighting vehicles

    The Russian Armed Forces are working on a program for the development of Russian armored vehicles. It is based on the conclusions obtained after the Zapad-2021 exercises, as well as on the results of other experimental maneuvers, where new infantry fighting vehicles (BMP) were tested, the Defense Ministry told Izvestia. In 2021, they tested the T-15 based on the Armata and the B-19 with the Epoch remote module equipped with a 57 mm cannon. The machines were tested in training defensive and offensive battles, as well as on the march. Whether they will be able to radically increase the combat power of the Russian troops and influence the course of hostilities as a whole - Izvestia figured out.

    Probation

    Sources in the military department told Izvestia that work on a program for the development of Russian armored systems is already underway. The new document pays special attention to the integration of unique weapons systems on the battlefield - the B-19 and T-15 infantry fighting vehicles. A concept is being developed for their use, the organizational and staff structure of units equipped with this equipment, as well as a training program for personnel. The results of the use of armored vehicles on maneuvers in 2021, where they were deployed in conditions as close as possible to combat, are being studied. Initial information for analysis has already been collected . Prior to this, the Ministry of Defense reported that during the West-2021 strategic exercise at the Mulino training ground in the Nizhny Novgorod region, the latest B-19 infantry fighting vehicles with the Epoch combat module provided fire support to the units on the main defensive line. The actions of the machine were watched by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    On the eve of the New Year, the Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces, General of the Army Oleg Salyukov, said that the BMP B-19 is now undergoing various types of tests, after which it is planned to be put into service. Izvestia has already written that starting next year, commanders will be trained for the T-15 heavy infantry fighting vehicles of the Armata family. Their training will be conducted on the basis of the Far Eastern Higher Combined Arms Command School in Blagoveshchensk. It is known that the RF Ministry of Defense has a contract for the supply of a battalion set of BMP T-15. Now this armored vehicle is being tested.

    Under the "umbrella"

    “The Ground Forces have organizational and staff structures of three types of formations,” military expert Viktor Murakhovsky told Izvestia. - In particular, it is envisaged to create heavy formations, which will be equipped with T-15 tanks and T-14 infantry fighting vehicles, created on the Armata platform. Also, the armed forces have formations based on medium tracked platforms, primarily on vehicles of the BMP-3 family. The new B-19 infantry fighting vehicle with the Epoch module also belongs to this type. Also known are the standard structures of light formations that move wheeled infantry fighting vehicles and other equipment built on this platform.

    The T-15 infantry fighting vehicles based on the "Armata" have powerful tank armor, which makes it possible to reliably protect the crew and motorized riflemen located in the troop compartment. For this reason, the BMP T-15 is likely to go into service with the strike units, which are supposed to break through the well-prepared enemy defenses, equipped with engineering structures, the expert said.

    How new technology and electronics will help save the lives of soldiers - The powerful armor of the T-15 will make it possible to implement such a tactical technique as a single armored battle formation - with it, tanks and infantry fighting vehicles go in one formation, without breaking in depth, - explained Viktor Murakhovsky. - Now the motorized infantry, due to the weakness of the BMP armor, dismounts long before the enemy's first line of defense. Heavy infantry fighting vehicles are capable of withstanding enemy fire from ATGMs, tank caliber cannons and other weapon systems from frontal and head-on angles, which provides motorized infantry with new opportunities. For example, it allows the command to designate a dismounting line for motorized riflemen directly at the front line of the enemy or even behind him. An umbrella from the explosions of its shells will help to break through the defense, which will reduce the use of anti-tank weapons by the enemy to practically nothing. Such an attack should result in a breach of any prepared defense. But the new tactics still have to be worked out in detail at the training grounds in order to understand all the nuances.

    In the USSR, it was tested in several exercises. But at the training grounds it quickly became clear that the thin armor of Soviet infantry fighting vehicles did not allow such attacks - the attackers had too large losses. On this, the experiment was completed, but the idea was not forgotten and its implementation became possible after the appearance of heavy infantry fighting vehicles, the expert summed up.

    Heavy shock regiments, brigades or divisions will appear in the Ground Forces in earnest and for a long time. They will interact with formations where medium infantry fighting vehicles are in service, experts say.

    How armored "tank killers" will establish interaction with motorized rifle and tank units

    “ Medium BMPs, including B-19s, can float,” military expert Alexei Khlopotov reminded Izvestia. - Rivers or other water obstacles have never been an obstacle for them, and this feature influences a lot. Here, with amendments, of course, methods can be earned that were tried out in the second half of the Great Patriotic War. With this tactic, formations with heavy tanks and BMPs will push through the defenses, after which subunits with B-19 or BMP-3 will start to break through - they will have to develop their success behind enemy lines. Medium infantry fighting vehicles will also be indispensable when capturing bridgeheads; unlike the T-15, they do not need bridges or search for a section of the river suitable for crossing along the bottom.

    The choice of units with a certain type of BMP may depend on the specifics of the theater of operations and the enemy's weapons. In Europe, for example, there are many rivers and with a deep breakthrough it is better to use medium BMPs. The wars in the Middle East and Afghanistan have shown that a heavy combat vehicle that provides reliable protection to the crew will certainly be in demand there.
    Not afraid of tanks

    BMP T-15 and B-19 have been developed recently. The prototypes of the first of them were first shown at the Moscow parade on May 9, 2015. The crew of this vehicle consists of three people, in addition, it has an airborne compartment, which can accommodate nine motorized riflemen. The frontal armor of the BMP is at the level of modern tanks. The T-15 is reinforced with dynamic armor and the "Afghanit" active protection system. It allows you to intercept missiles or projectiles aimed at the vehicle. The crew can continue to fight even in conditions of the use of nuclear and other types of weapons of mass destruction.

    “Armor, good maneuverability, a large and comfortable compartment for motorized riflemen, as well as a wide port for landing troops on the battlefield are the main advantages of the vehicle,” says Aleksey Khlopotov. - For the T-15, several types of combat modules have been developed with anti-tank missiles and guns of different calibers. Any of them can be installed on the T-15. All of them are uninhabited: the crew controls the weapons from inside the troop compartment, which increases its survivability in battle.

    The Boomerang-B module received a 30-mm automatic cannon, a 7.62-mm machine gun and four launchers for the Kornet-EM anti-tank complex.

    More powerful 57mm cannons are installed on the Epoch and Dagger modules. They must receive high-precision guided munitions with a remote detonation system. This will make it possible not only to easily hit clusters of infantry, but also to shoot down aerial drones, helicopters, airplanes and even missiles. The gun is paired with a 7.62 mm PKTM machine gun.

    The Kornet-EM anti-tank missile system of the Epoch module will destroy any of the modern tanks. Its anti-aircraft missiles are capable of shooting down helicopters and airplanes. The experience of Syria has shown that the crews of infantry fighting vehicles are often faced with unarmored or lightly armored vehicles, on which it is wasteful to spend expensive "Kornets". To combat such vehicles and infantry, the Epoch installed the Bulat complex with guided missiles. The launcher of the complex is extended from the tower before firing, and the rest of the time is protected by armor.

    The B-19 infantry fighting vehicle was created on the basis of the time-tested BMP-3. Instead of two twin cannons, the main caliber of the B-19, as on the T-15, became the Epoch remote module with a 57-mm gun and the Kornet and Bulat missile systems. A high-tech fire control system is also equipped, which allows the BMP to hit any targets day and night in the most difficult weather conditions. The new Russian vehicles are capable of fighting not only the BMPs of any modern army in the world, but also the tanks in its arsenal.

    https://iz-ru.translate.goog/1270474/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/pole-broni-zachem-rossiiskoi-armii-novye-bmp?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  George1 Thu May 12, 2022 11:10 pm

    Serial production of the BM-30-D "Spitsa" remotely controlled combat module has begun

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    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4525253.html

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    Post  GarryB Fri May 13, 2022 5:11 am

    Seems to have a grenade launcher added to the top side with a protected feed leading to the top of the turret.

    In the last few seconds of the video the vehicle in the back seems to have the grenade launcher mount elevated... I wonder if it is 30mm or 40mm.

    Grenade launchers are so much better than rifle calibre machine guns, but it is good to have both.

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    Post  The-thing-next-door Fri May 13, 2022 1:20 pm

    GarryB wrote:Seems to have a grenade launcher added to the top side with a protected feed leading to the top of the turret.

    In the last few seconds of the video the vehicle in the back seems to have the grenade launcher mount elevated... I wonder if it is 30mm or 40mm.

    Grenade launchers are so much better than rifle calibre machine guns, but it is good to have both.

    It could be seen in earlier pictures.

    The things that are interesting is that it will allow for indirect fire which could be interesting once combined with their new infantry portable battle management systems.

    The additional explosive rounds are ofcourse very helpful in direct fire too, I wonder how many they carry?

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    Post  d_taddei2 Fri May 13, 2022 1:54 pm

    Nice little turret. I wonder if this could be fitted to BDRM-2, MTLB, BMD, I know that they have fitted BTR -82 turrets to MT-LB in the past. Although this turret seems smaller and shorter barrel. This could be a nice export product, many countries are looking at producing their own wheeled armoured vehicles and save money buy buying this turret for their homegrown vehicles or be offered as an upgrade to the many various Soviet vehicles still around the world, BTR-40, BTR-60, 70, 80, BDRM-2, BMD, BMP etc.

    It seems Russia is developing a lot of various turrets, using 30mm cannon, 57mm cannon, AGS, with addition of konkurs, Metis M, kornet, 82mm mortar, etc. These types of turrets really do add some decent firepower so something that would normally be seen as lightly armed. In the case of the vehicle above in the video this little armoured 4x4 vehicle packs the same punch as a British warrior IFV and other western IFV.

    I have always liked the idea of small Mobile vehicles armed with decent firepower. Reminds me a bit of the British sabre/scimitar tracked vehicles and the ferret armed with a sabre turret. Although all retired now. I know Iran still produces a copy of the Scorpion with a 90mm gun, and another version with a bm-21 type of rocket pod (107mm), and a variant armed with Iranian copy of kornet,  I think there is scope here to produce many other types of turrets for such vehicles, Iran would do well to arm a 30mm or 57mm turret on the Scorpion chassis I think there version is called tosan or something like that. I suspect that the Russian BMD set of vehicles are ideal for upgraded or a set of various turrets. I could see these turrets getting a little pod of bulat added which would be nice, in fact you could have a turret armed with a 7.62mm and large set of pods carrying bulat as variant maybe carrying a pod of 24-36 bulat rockets as a sort of mini direct fire support vehicle. I know north Korea used a wheeled chassis and mounted a turret that launches 8 loitering munitions. (Just posted pics of it in North Korea thread)

    Seems like they have produced quite a few turrets by the looks of it. While the same types of vehicles in the west are armed with 7.62, 0.50cal, AGS, the Russians are doing it properly with 30mm cannons lol!
    GarryB
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    Future of Russian IFV/AFVs - Page 7 Empty Re: Future of Russian IFV/AFVs

    Post  GarryB Sat May 14, 2022 10:12 am

    The vehicle families they are building means making modular turrets that can be fitted to a range of platforms a good idea, and this is just part of it.

    This turret has been shown on the Tigr so it should be suitable for any light vehicle like BRDM-2 or even MRAPS and their new armoured trucks.

    It does not seem to have a commander sight on top with full 360 degree independent view so this is a gunner turret operated by a commander/gunner with a second crewman likely the driver.

    Having a drone operator in the back flying a drone above would give excellent situational awareness when the drones are up and operating, but normally it would only see well in the directions it is facing is turret towards.

    Spinning the turret around all the time looking for ground and air threats would make the vehicle stand out and hard to camouflage because moving targets are the easiest to spot... but in place of a roof mounted 50 cal this is a huge step up.
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    Post  flamming_python Sat May 14, 2022 12:10 pm

    There is a version of that turret for the Typhoon-VDV vehicle but it's sans the 30mm grenade launcher to save weight

    This full-version has the 30mm autocannon, 7.62 PTKM co-axial to the auto-cannon, and the 30mm grenade launcher

    GarryB, d_taddei2 and GunshipDemocracy like this post


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