Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    medo
    medo

    Posts : 3808
    Points : 3892
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  medo on 22/04/15, 09:59 pm

    Wow, they are great. Hardly wait to see them fully uncovered. I wonder if T-15 IFV could swim?
    Redboy
    Redboy

    Posts : 6
    Points : 4
    Join date : 2015-04-02

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Redboy on 22/04/15, 10:04 pm

    https://imgur.com/hBUlVe5

    Picture is kinda big, so i use imgur link. So what are your guesses? Some part of active protection system? Because it looks too small for smoke grenades, afterall you can see smoke nads on that picture too and it doesnt look same or if anyone has better idea, then tell us Very Happy
    Zivo
    Zivo

    Posts : 1488
    Points : 1514
    Join date : 2012-04-13
    Location : U.S.A.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Zivo on 22/04/15, 10:15 pm

    Redboy wrote:https://imgur.com/hBUlVe5

    Picture is kinda big, so i use imgur link. So what are your guesses? Some part of active protection system? Because it looks too small for smoke grenades, afterall you can see smoke nads on that picture too and it doesnt look same or if anyone has better idea, then tell us Very Happy

    The big tubes are the APS, the circled piece is likely a directional smoke grenade discharger. Systems like that can accurately put a grenade between the tank and the incoming missiles. Poor old FGM-148. Laughing
    Stealthflanker
    Stealthflanker

    Posts : 882
    Points : 962
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 32
    Location : Indonesia

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Stealthflanker on 22/04/15, 10:23 pm

    Redboy wrote:https://imgur.com/hBUlVe5

    Picture is kinda big, so i use imgur link. So what are your guesses? Some part of active protection system? Because it looks too small for smoke grenades, afterall you can see smoke nads on that picture too and it doesnt look same or if anyone has better idea, then tell us Very Happy

    I think that small thing is the smoke grenades.

    The APS munitions are the larger tubes ahead of it.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 5902
    Points : 6053
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on 22/04/15, 10:27 pm

    Zivo wrote:
    Redboy wrote:https://imgur.com/hBUlVe5

    Picture is kinda big, so i use imgur link. So what are your guesses? Some part of active protection system? Because it looks too small for smoke grenades, afterall you can see smoke nads on that picture too and it doesnt look same or if anyone has better idea, then tell us Very Happy

    The big tubes are the APS, the circled piece is likely a directional smoke grenade discharger. Systems like that can accurately put a grenade between the tank and the incoming missiles. Poor old FGM-148. Laughing

    Your probably right, it makes sense for the bigger tubes to be APS because if 'Afghanistan' APS is supposed to work as advertised than it's going need a significant amount of explosive charge to defeat the best NATO APFSDS rounds that they can offer. The question is if 'Afghanistan' is supposed to be capable of defeating top attack munitions is the tarp covering up the vertically pointing APS dispensers?
    Stealthflanker
    Stealthflanker

    Posts : 882
    Points : 962
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 32
    Location : Indonesia

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Stealthflanker on 22/04/15, 11:06 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Your probably right, it makes sense for the bigger tubes to be APS because if 'Afghanistan' APS is supposed to work as advertised than it's going need a significant amount of explosive charge to defeat the best NATO APFSDS rounds that they can offer. The question is if 'Afghanistan' is supposed to be capable of defeating top attack munitions is the tarp covering up the vertically pointing APS dispensers?

    No. The key parameter in "counter APFSDS" APS are miss distance and range not warhead weight.

    500 grams of HE exploded 5 cm above the APFSDS could deflect it by 241 cm or over two meter, assuming interception range (Where the APS munition encounter the missile) of 100 m. Flying on top of the APFSDS... The explosion will deflect it straight to the ground thus won't hit the tank at all.

    The explosion may also induce severe yaw to the APFSDS.. This is the mechanism employed by Israeli Iron Fist. Thus reducing penetration depth.

    Anyway.. i did that calculation based on Journal of Impact engineering paper

    _G_Iosilevskii;_N_Farber_--_Effect_of_a_spherical_explosion_upon_the_flight_path_and_spatial_orientation_of_a_projectile-1.pdf]Effects of spherical explosion upon flight path and spatial orientation of a projectile


    In order to reach such miss distance, the APS must have high accuracy. This can be achieved by combination of IR and Radar sensor.
    Dima
    Dima

    Posts : 1122
    Points : 1135
    Join date : 2012-03-22

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Dima on 22/04/15, 11:09 pm

    Guys....the footprint!
    Video grab from the parade rehersal.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Parade10

    Compare the track length of the last T-90 in the above pic to that of Armata MBT in the middle in the below pic.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Parade11

    T-90 and Armata MBT have almost same footprints with T-14 slightly longer. Obvious reference being the concrete.
    avatar
    cracker

    Posts : 232
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2014-09-04

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  cracker on 23/04/15, 12:29 am

    7 smaller close together wheels vs 6 bigger espaced wheels.
    Mike E
    Mike E

    Posts : 2641
    Points : 2677
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Mike E on 23/04/15, 01:22 am

    medo wrote:I wonder if T-15 IFV could swim?
    The shape of the hull would suggest so, but weight and propulsion also need to be optimized... We'll see.
    avatar
    akd

    Posts : 23
    Points : 26
    Join date : 2014-06-02

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  akd on 23/04/15, 02:12 am

    Redboy wrote:https://imgur.com/hBUlVe5

    Picture is kinda big, so i use imgur link. So what are your guesses? Some part of active protection system? Because it looks too small for smoke grenades, afterall you can see smoke nads on that picture too and it doesnt look same or if anyone has better idea, then tell us Very Happy

    I think you have the two mixed up, i.e. solid box is radar, big tubes are kill munitions and the small cluster of tubes is smoke.

    Mike E wrote:
    medo wrote:I wonder if T-15 IFV could swim?
    The shape of the hull would suggest so, but weight and propulsion also need to be optimized... We'll see.

    No, tank-based IFV will not be amphibious. It will be interesting to see what, if any, provisions are made for deep-wading.
    TR1
    TR1

    Posts : 5554
    Points : 5562
    Join date : 2011-12-07

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  TR1 on 23/04/15, 03:10 am

    medo wrote:Wow, they are great. Hardly wait to see them fully uncovered. I wonder if T-15 IFV could swim?

    It will swim the same day it will fly Wink .
    sepheronx
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7090
    Points : 7358
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 31
    Location : Canada

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  sepheronx on 23/04/15, 03:13 am

    TR1 wrote:
    medo wrote:Wow, they are great. Hardly wait to see them fully uncovered. I wonder if T-15 IFV could swim?

    It will swim the same day it will fly Wink .

    It should have the ability to snorkle, right?
    TR1
    TR1

    Posts : 5554
    Points : 5562
    Join date : 2011-12-07

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  TR1 on 23/04/15, 03:32 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    medo wrote:Wow, they are great. Hardly wait to see them fully uncovered. I wonder if T-15 IFV could swim?

    It will swim the same day it will fly Wink .

    It should have the ability to snorkle, right?

    Yes, but only if Rogozin is propelling it by blowing hot air out of the vehicles rear.
    Cyberspec
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2786
    Points : 2941
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Cyberspec on 23/04/15, 04:10 am

    Rogozin or not, the T-15 is a BEAST Exclamation ....it looks better armoured than I imagined
    avatar
    cracker

    Posts : 232
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2014-09-04

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  cracker on 23/04/15, 05:37 am

    not sure about T-15... ok it's great... but, usefulness? imho production should be small, must not waste too much money in that thing, K-25 is much more usefull.

    2 urban fighting brigades maybe, for a total of 300 T-15, not more. Offered for export though, it might be very useful for many nations, but that won't be before 2020
    2SPOOKY4U
    2SPOOKY4U

    Posts : 276
    Points : 287
    Join date : 2014-09-21

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  2SPOOKY4U on 23/04/15, 05:45 am

    cracker wrote:not sure about T-15... ok it's great... but, usefulness? imho production should be small, must not waste too much money in that thing, K-25 is much more usefull.

    2 urban fighting brigades maybe, for a  total of 300 T-15, not more. Offered for export though, it might be very useful for many nations, but that won't be before 2020

    An APC with the armor of a tank, that can go wherever the T-14 goes and use the same parts, fuel, etc. is less useful than K-25?

    You cannot really compare the two, its not just invaluable in urban environments, it can roll right with the tanks on the battlefield and support them with it's own armament.

    Remember that these are vehicle families that are meant to be able to meet all task required.

    Urban fighting, capturing areas, combat engineering, recon etc.

    If a situation requires a vehicle with the armor of a tank, then it makes sense to have your APC's equipped with similar armor specs.

    A fighting force is only as strong as its weakest link, and when your weakest link has the same armor as the strongest one, well....
    Regular
    Regular

    Posts : 2342
    Points : 2334
    Join date : 2013-03-11
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Regular on 23/04/15, 08:04 am

    Don't worry, if You see it in flesh it means it has it's place in the system.
    Glad to see Russia not sticking to size restrictions no more. APCs, IFVs and tank look huge compared to their predecessors. Kurganets-25 look awesome if You ask me. Side armor is pure sex!
    TR1
    TR1

    Posts : 5554
    Points : 5562
    Join date : 2011-12-07

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  TR1 on 23/04/15, 08:16 am

    I'm not convinced they are that huge.

    BTR-90 was already a giant compared to BTR-80.

    TR1
    TR1

    Posts : 5554
    Points : 5562
    Join date : 2011-12-07

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  TR1 on 23/04/15, 08:52 am

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 3995479

    More APS tubes.
    higurashihougi
    higurashihougi

    Posts : 2273
    Points : 2364
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  higurashihougi on 23/04/15, 12:23 pm

    Seems like T-15 will be more similar to the Terminator rather than the 120mm gun model, isn't ? Question Idea
    Werewolf
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5251
    Points : 5454
    Join date : 2012-10-25

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Werewolf on 23/04/15, 12:26 pm

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Jtdxlm5i
    collegeboy16
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1145
    Points : 1146
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 23
    Location : Roanapur

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  collegeboy16 on 23/04/15, 12:33 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:Seems like T-15 will be more similar to the Terminator rather than the 120mm gun model, isn't ? Question Idea
    The T-15 is an IFV. It would need an under turret space free of the vehicles ammo to make way for some passengers, those ammo would then be stored instead in the turret bustle. The turret bustle however is really small compared to the under turret space- you cant have a combat appreciable amount of 120mm mortar rounds just storing them in the bustle. So Epoha with 30mm gun and Kornets it is.
    avatar
    sheytanelkebir

    Posts : 537
    Points : 554
    Join date : 2013-09-16

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  sheytanelkebir on 23/04/15, 03:02 pm

    Orocairion wrote:
    Austin wrote:So Armata chassis has two crew ? I read it was 3 crew and I dont see the hatch for 3rd crew

    On top of the tarp that covers the turret, there seems to be a hatch, judging by the bit that can be removed on it.

    that's what I noticed too. I wonder if the gunner sits in the turret???

    although at the same time the vision block right in the centre of the hull under the gun seems to indicate that the gunner (or commander) sits there...
    Werewolf
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5251
    Points : 5454
    Join date : 2012-10-25

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Werewolf on 23/04/15, 04:07 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:
    Orocairion wrote:
    Austin wrote:So Armata chassis has two crew ? I read it was 3 crew and I dont see the hatch for 3rd crew

    On top of the tarp that covers the turret, there seems to be a hatch, judging by the bit that can be removed on it.

    that's what I noticed too. I wonder if the gunner sits in the turret???

    although at the same time the vision block right in the centre of the hull under the gun seems to indicate that the gunner (or commander) sits there...

    I guess that the turret can be manned, mainly for maintenance, reloading the carousel and and maybe also as blow off panel but i hope the carousel and turret are sperated and the blow off panels direct the cook offs somewhere else to avoid destruction of turret interior, but all crew should sit in the armored capsule.
    KomissarBojanchev
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1440
    Points : 1601
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 22
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on 23/04/15, 07:25 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:Seems like T-15 will be more similar to the Terminator rather than the 120mm gun model, isn't ? Question Idea
    The T-15 is an IFV. It would need an under turret space free of the vehicles ammo to make way for some passengers, those ammo would then be stored instead in the turret bustle. The turret bustle however is really small compared to the under turret space- you cant have a combat appreciable amount of 120mm mortar rounds just storing them in the bustle. So Epoha with 30mm gun and Kornets it is.
    Still 30 mm is extremely underwhelming for such a heavy IFV. Is there chance that this unarmored epoha EGT crap is only temporary. The T-15 asking for an armored unmanned 57mm turret right now.

    Sponsored content

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is 10/07/20, 11:10 am