Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #5

KoTeMoRe wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:Possible concern for the Russians.

Interesting: Turkmen fighters showed off their Strela-2M (SA-7B) MANPADS, though it lacked 9B17 thermal battery.
https://twitter.com/ain92ru/status/669310645653938176

Actually this was worse. The Trail from the missile that hit the SU-24 on tape and the plane almost made it to SAA controlled territory. The Turks indeed shot it so it could fall in Turkmen territory.

1.56, on the left of the flying Mi-8, is that the destroyed Mi-8?

Who are the Turkmen that are reported to have killed two Russian pilots?


Downing of Russian jet throws spotlight on ethnic Turkish minority fighting with Syria's rebels(terrorists.) "They have been fighting alongside other rebel groups, including the al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra"....
Alwiya al-Ashar is linked to a Turkish and CIA-backed logistics supply programme that funnels a near-constant stream of small arms, ammunition, and cash for salaries to rebel groups across northern Syria."

ANNA News will be banned a 5th time now by Jewtube.

KiloGolf wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:Possible concern for the Russians.

Interesting: Turkmen fighters showed off their Strela-2M (SA-7B) MANPADS, though it lacked 9B17 thermal battery.
https://twitter.com/ain92ru/status/669310645653938176

Actually this was worse. The Trail from the missile that hit the SU-24 on tape and the plane almost made it to SAA controlled territory. The Turks indeed shot it so it could fall in Turkmen territory.

1.56, on the left of the flying Mi-8, is that the destroyed Mi-8?

Yup, it's the hit Mil Mi 8. So the area was set up and people were ready with a tow squad. I mean I half-believed my own idea, but this, with Crocodiles overhead and T'ukmens hitting the chopper, this is clearly a prepared ambush site.

BTW the guys on the ground aren't Turkmen half of them are Turkish citizen, including the commander.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Yup, it's the hit Mil Mi 8. So the area was set up and people were ready with a tow squad. I mean I half-believed my own idea, but this, with Crocodiles overhead and T'ukmens hitting the chopper, this is clearly a prepared ambush site.

BTW the guys on the ground aren't Turkmen half of them are Turkish citizen, including the commander.

Thx for clarifications.

Without trying to come off as heartless tool, it's been about 2 months since Russia has setup some serious shop right on the Med (1 air base, 1 helicopter/ammo and 1 extra storage facility), massacred these "revolutionaries" by the hundreds, butchered their perceived "home front", gained prime real estate (be it not huge) in Latakia and Aleppo and eradicated their handlers' cash flow (oil). Loosing three men in the process, an old soviet jet and a helicopter.

OK...
It's not as if they lost the battle for Kursk or something. War is war.

George1 wrote:
What does this mean ?

First of all, the missile cruiser Moskva has already been off the coast of Latakia since the beginning of October. This re-affirmation of the deployment is meant to send a very precise message:


Do not even think of pulling off something like what happened today.

Second, the use of the word “ORDER”. This means, most likely, that the authorization to use fire power, has already been given in certain circumstances. Unlike the event we witnessed today where Erdogan had to authorize the strike, no high level authorization will be needed in case of “a hostile threat .”

The Russians literally have their fingers on the trigger.

Given the above, Syrian skies have now effectively become a Russian no-Fly-zone. Washington/Ankara can test this hypothesis at their own peril.

From now on, no messing around.  Fore-warned is fore-armed.

http://russia-insider.com/en/things-just-got-very-serious-moskva-missile-cruiser-target-and-destroy-any-potential-threat/ri11419

So.. S-300F will be put on motion.

I will also be looking closely at possible scenario of TuNavy vessels sinking without explanation.
There's allegedly an improved Kilo somewhere in the region too...

KiloGolf wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Yup, it's the hit Mil Mi 8. So the area was set up and people were ready with a tow squad. I mean I half-believed my own idea, but this, with Crocodiles overhead and T'ukmens hitting the chopper, this is clearly a prepared ambush site.

BTW the guys on the ground aren't Turkmen half of them are Turkish citizen, including the commander.

Thx for clarifications.

Without trying to come off as heartless tool, it's been about 2 months since Russia has setup some serious shop right on the Med (1 air base, 1 helicopter/ammo and 1 extra storage facility), massacred these "revolutionaries" by the hundreds, butchered their perceived "home front", gained prime real estate (be it not huge) in Latakia and Aleppo and eradicated their handlers' cash flow (oil). Loosing three men in the process, an old soviet jet and a helicopter.

OK...
It's not as if they lost the battle for Kursk or something. War is war.

If you read one of my posts, I said exactly that, the mission is going well, bar the asshatery from Turkey. There was no threat, no real risk to the bomber force. Now it will change. Now the Russians will monitor locks from Turkish AF/CAP, as soon as they detect one, direct counter-lock, this will mean that for SEAD missions, there must be an Iranian base available. Or then Russians will have to go X-555/101 on Turkish AC.

But I cannot let you talk about this like it was "war", it's an unprovoked, fully premediated action planned and executed by Turkey due to assumptions by the Russian pilots and possible weather conditions. That's why it is bewlidering.

Russia needs to fight back against the NATO "drang nach osten". Syria, Iraq and Iran need to be supported to become a line against Turkey and
the anti-Shia alliance of assorted vermin. Kurds need full support from Russia to secure their future.

Erdo-turd-land can threaten to shut down the Bosphorus. Russia can make sure that it stays behind its southern border for the coming decades.
No more incursions to chase Kurds and no more ISIS proxies. Russia needs to commit massive amounts of hardware to this effort. Smear ISIS
out much faster.

KoTeMoRe wrote:That's why it is bewlidering.

PS. this is not meant to be a stereotype but really a joke, yet there is a historical trend with these folks' conduct at war. Their leadership tends to order insane things and never keep certain "army conduct" code in line.

KiloGolf wrote:Possible concern for the Russians.

Interesting: Turkmen fighters showed off their Strela-2M (SA-7B) MANPADS, though it lacked 9B17 thermal battery.
https://twitter.com/ain92ru/status/669310645653938176

Various groups in Syria have them for years now. This one tho might be of Croatian origin (ex Yugoslavian stockpile).

Seems Turkish/NATO fans atm are making coorinated efford on social networks to mock Russian civilian grade navigation equipment and create public opnion that "Russians sux and they got lost".

"No wonder Russia's Su-24 got 'lost' in Turkey, check out the Walmart-Grade GPS system in their attack jets:"

"2nd pic of a Russian Su-24 fighter jet using consumer grade Garmin GPS"

And so on and on, there are thousands and thousands of tweets and FB posts like this, naturally source is our beloved Foxtrotalpha; http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-russian-attack-jets-use-walmart-grade-gps-systems-1703048443

If true that's a big FU to the perpetrators of this trap

via @AlMayadeenNews The 2nd #Russian Pilot was rescued by #SAA after a special operation behind enemy lines
https://twitter.com/Ibra_Joudeh/status/669322820665610241

Although I was under the impression both pilots were shown on tape dead..

A US official told reuters that the Su-24 was shot down in Syria AFTER the airspace incursion.

Odd to admit after "the Russian aircraft ignored 10 warnings"

kvs wrote:Russia needs to fight back against the NATO "drang nach osten".   Syria, Iraq and Iran need to be supported to become a line against Turkey and
the anti-Shia alliance of assorted vermin.    Kurds need full support from Russia to secure their future.

Erdo-turd-land can threaten to shut down the Bosphorus.   Russia can make sure that it stays behind its southern border for the coming decades.
No more incursions to chase Kurds and no more ISIS proxies.    Russia needs to commit massive amounts of hardware to this effort.   Smear ISIS
out much faster.

IF Turkey threaten to close the Bosphorus for Russai.. Russia can arm kurds to "fight ISIL"

But not sure if Russia see that as an act of war and enough to declare war against Turkey.
no idea how much Russia economy depends on that bosphorus crossing. But Russia can counter attack Turkey in many ways.. with Kurds and by sinking all its merchant ships ,closing the Suez canal too with egypt help, to saudi Arabia and Turkey,that will spike the oil prices to heaven. It will be a limited slow scale world war but that can become big one on any time.  Russia can also sink all Turkey warship in black sea.. it will be difficult if not impossible for turkey to get close to Russia main land.. Im sure Russia before it went to Syria ,it had to take into account the very BIG possibility of a war with Turkey. this means that they had to be deploying very strong air defenses from Sochit to Rostov done and Crimea..like a shield.. in fact the most likely war of NATO against Russia was always turkey.. so it will be unthinkable that Russia have not been preparing for a full scale war against them and which targets to attack..  On the Syria front..Russia will be weak..since syria territory is not ideal for creating a bullet proof shield of air defenses with so much territory captured by terrorist.


So Turkey can more effectively fight Russia in Syria. and if a war stat.. US can counter attack by starting the war in Ukraine. is a proxy war what Russia face.. for 5 years already. and the possibilities of it becoming direct are very high. . But in such kind of war.. lol  Turkey will end with all its economy industries bombed.. and NATO will not interfere.. regardless what you heard or its secretary cheerleader says.. Since US will like to be on the sidelines selling weapons while Russia and Turkey fight.

and yes Turkey will be the BIGGEST LOSER.. i can see the nation disbanded in 5 years in a major civil war..if they go ahead with a war with Russia and IRAN .even worse that Syria.. no idea what Erdogan the bastard was thinking with starting a war against Russia ,that will drag IRAN too..and possibly CHINA ..  and with so big opposition of kurds in the front line.

in a full scale war against turkey.. that Russia is forced to use nukes.. i can see Russia invading Turkey side near Greece that is a small territory and controlling the right gate.. i can also see Russia invaded CYprus and returning the eastern side to them that was invaded by turkey..and creating there a huge military base. in case goes with limited nuclear use.. to military bases.. etc.. But for Americans it doesn't matter if Ukraine and Turkey defeated.. as they expect they will be..this is because.... Its an economic war against Russa and the aim is to isolate Russia from Europe and crash its economy.. this is why Russia needs a bit of patience and long term planning in all its actions. and more than anything seek support ,even if only moral from Europe.. to defend against Turkey attacks.

Fricken pilot prerogative, asshats. Just because your sexually repressed NATO wanks wouldn't be given jurisdiction to do this epic little DIY jobbie.

KiloGolf wrote:If true that's a big FU to the perpetrators of this trap

via @AlMayadeenNews The 2nd #Russian Pilot was rescued by #SAA after a special operation behind enemy lines
https://twitter.com/Ibra_Joudeh/status/669322820665610241

Although I was under the impression both pilots were shown on tape dead..

It doesnt state whether he is alive or not! Lets really hope that he is alive, though it seems a long shot at this stage.

Hats off to the Syrians for getting him out.

Militarov wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:Possible concern for the Russians.

Interesting: Turkmen fighters showed off their Strela-2M (SA-7B) MANPADS, though it lacked 9B17 thermal battery.
https://twitter.com/ain92ru/status/669310645653938176

Various groups in Syria have them for years now. This one tho might be of Croatian origin (ex Yugoslavian stockpile).

Didn't we talked about this like a month ago...

PapaD: I think Turkish AF in Syrian Airspace might call it self Christmas Tree.

Militarov wrote:

Seems Turkish/NATO fans atm are making coorinated efford on social networks to mock Russian civilian grade navigation equipment and create public opnion that "Russians sux and they got lost".

"No wonder Russia's Su-24 got 'lost' in Turkey, check out the Walmart-Grade GPS system in their attack jets:"

"2nd pic of a Russian Su-24 fighter jet using consumer grade Garmin GPS"

And so on and on, there are thousands and thousands of tweets and FB posts like this, naturally source is our beloved Foxtrotalpha; http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-russian-attack-jets-use-walmart-grade-gps-systems-1703048443

So what's that commercial grade GPS doing there ?

i believe (gonna check) later Su-24 got its own moving map display or inertial navigation.. plus they're in touch with towers. That GPS however might serve as a "comparison check"

--
I have my own hypothesis though regarding this, related to maneuvering limitations (Su-24 is not really an agile fighter though) basically the Su-24 can't manuver quick enough to avoid Turkish airspace... so it crossed.

The Turkish fighter in other hand.. doing the CAP patrol, warned the Russian fighter not to enter. The Russians know this warning but simply unable to pull the G's.

Their mission must be very close to the border.

Now i wonder..where's the Su-30SM's.

KiloGolf wrote:

Regular wrote:
I'm not really into aviation, but how does Russia compare to ECM and AA capability? Is R-77 comparable to AMRAMM?

The AIM-120C (C5 or C7) combined with what they Turks have (i.e. Link 16 on F-16C/D, ground and AEW&C Wedgetail) is better than anything Russians have operational. One generation ahead actually.

There is no AA-12 in broad RuAF service (if at all), they are stuck with old, possibly Ukrainian-made AA-10 which at best can be compared to AIM-7E/F.

The gibberish this guy is spewing out is again out of some computer game; he thinks computer games are real. We have had a few like that on this forum already.

For a mission like this, the F-16s wouldn't even carry AIM-120s; that dead weight would turn the hunter into the hunted.

Link 16? Against Russia? Are you kidding? Radio silence is used outside of the computer games.

20 mm gun on the F-16 is most consistent both with the initial Russian announcement and with the actual damage seen.

Stealthflanker wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Seems Turkish/NATO fans atm are making coorinated efford on social networks to mock Russian civilian grade navigation equipment and create public opnion that "Russians sux and they got lost".

"No wonder Russia's Su-24 got 'lost' in Turkey, check out the Walmart-Grade GPS system in their attack jets:"

"2nd pic of a Russian Su-24 fighter jet using consumer grade Garmin GPS"

And so on and on, there are thousands and thousands of tweets and FB posts like this, naturally source is our beloved Foxtrotalpha; http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-russian-attack-jets-use-walmart-grade-gps-systems-1703048443

So what's that commercial grade GPS doing there ?

i believe (gonna check) later Su-24 got its own moving map display or inertial navigation.. plus they're in touch with towers.  That GPS however might serve as a "comparison check"

--
I have my own hypothesis though regarding this, related to maneuvering limitations (Su-24 is not really an agile fighter though) basically the Su-24 can't manuver quick enough to avoid Turkish airspace... so it crossed.

The Turkish fighter in other hand.. doing the CAP patrol, warned the Russian fighter not to enter. The Russians know this warning but simply unable to pull the G's.

Their mission must be very close to the border.

Now i wonder..where's the Su-30SM's.

What I said above, yes, Su-24M has in-built GLONASS and GPS functionality. But it is completely a pilot's prerogative to install some third-party hardware. You take a hit and have electronic failure? No problem, you have a backup, and it's not just a map. Maybe he simply got stick of glancing down half the time.

I wish by tomorrow when I wake up Russia had already launched a crushing response to Terror Turkey

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:The gibberish this guy is spewing out is again out of some computer game; he thinks computer games are real. We have had a few like that on this forum already.

For a mission like this, the F-16s wouldn't even carry AIM-120s; that dead weight would turn the hunter into the hunted.

Link 16? Against Russia? Are you kidding? Radio silence is used outside of the computer games.

20 mm gun on the F-16 is most consistent both with the initial Russian announcement and with the actual damage seen.

AIM-120 is standard combat loadout for all F-16s (hell on all missions) since the late 90s. Mate, you are out of your depth, at least when it comes to our main regional adversary or our own Air Force (we both use Vipers/AMRAAM combo since about 2 decades ago).

Jamming link 16 with what? where was the platform supposedly doing that? wtf. Just because the plane was not cut in half it doesn't mean a missile was not used. In fact ANNA news caught the missile trail. AMRAAM is a very lethal weapon by any standard.