GarryB wrote:This will likely be an original T-90 tank with new gun and autoloader with more powerful ammo, with new fire control systems and new sensors and thermals, new ERA and NERA, new engine and transmission, new communications equipment, and other equipment developed for the T-14.
It makes it an Su-35... and in many situations it could be more useful than the heavier and more expensive T-14... but either way it can be in service much faster and cheaper so the forces get capabilities much quicker and get more experience before the real vehicle enters service.
No it won't be new, they were clear that this is upgrade package for current vehicles
And it can't be more useful than T-14, it's whole generation behind
No, its electronics will be nearly on the same level as the T-14.
Quote of Franco, post No.37:
"A new contract of the Russian Defense Ministry for T-90M tanks
It was reported that on August 21, 2018, at the International Military Technical Forum "Army-2018" opened in Kubinka, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed with the Scientific Production Corporation "Uralvagonzavod" the second contract for the purchase of T-90M tanks, deliveries will be made in 2019 year.
Recall that the first contract for the supply of T-90M tanks ("Object 188M") was signed by the Russian Ministry of Defense with the Uralvagonzavod NPK at the previous International Military Technical Forum "Army-2017" on August 24, 2017. According to the published data , the first contract was concluded for the delivery of 30 T-90M tanks in 2018-2019. Of the 30 T-90M tanks, only ten should be new-built machines, and the remaining 20 will be converted during the overhaul and modernization of the T-90 tanks (apparently to assess the level of costs to upgrade to T-90M of the existing fleet of T-90 tanks). According to unofficial information, a new contract at the forum "Army-2018" is concluded for one battalion of T-90M tanks of new construction (apparently, about 30 tanks)."
Video demonstration of the tests of the tank T-90M
The TASS news agency distributed a short video provided by Uralvagonzavod Scientific and Production Corporation JSC (UVZ) with a demonstration of the tests of the T-90M tank (Object 188M, Proryv-3 OCD).
From the side of bmpd, we recall that at the International military-technical forum "Army-2017" in Kubinka on August 24, 2017, the Russian Ministry of Defense concluded the first contract for the supply of 30 T-90M tanks from Uralvagonzavod (UVZ) ). According to published data, of the 30 T-90M tanks of this first contract, only ten should be vehicles of the new construction, and the remaining 20 will be re-equipped during the overhaul and modernization of T-90 tanks (apparently, in order to assess the level of costs for upgrading to the level of the T-90M cash fleet of T-90 tanks).
Under the terms of the contract, the delivery of 30 specified T-90M tanks was to be made in 2018-2019, but according to the latest reports, their delivery to the Ministry of Defense will be started only in 2019.
On August 21, 2018, at the Army-2018 International Military Technical Forum, the Russian Defense Ministry signed another contract with UVZ for the supply of a batch of T-90M tanks - according to unofficial information, for 30 units of new construction, with a declared delivery date of 2019.
According to this article, only 6 battalions of T-90A's still operational. And of those, expect to see 3 switch to T-72B3M's.
"Armed with the tank battalion of the 7th military base in Abkhazia will now be the "newest" T-72B3 tanks, and the "old" Abkhaz T-90 tanks in the resorts of the Syrian Arab Republic, now in full force. There is an opinion that in a couple of years the tank battalions of the 19th, 20th and 136th motorized rifle brigades of the Southern Military District will also be re-equipped with T-72B3 "newest" tanks. T-90 tanks will remain only in the three court and parade battalions of the 2nd motorized rifle division and the 27th motorized rifle brigade."
It's not that it's a bad idea.. just an expensive one. Why not just stick to modernization of existing stock?
It is expensive now because it is brand new technology... and the only way to force the price down is to order it in significant numbers and put it into mass production.
The alternative is to go cheap... leave the T-90 pretty much the way it is so when the T-14 is ready it will be largely untested and brand new... which means retraining, new production which is expensive, and of course time to get experience with the new equipment... the ability of the Russian military would level off to flat because the T-90 would not improve, new training cannot be performed because the old guns and old communications and lack of battle managements systems is not present... etc etc.
On the plus side the T-90 has proved to be the equal of western tanks when used correctly, and don't need to be stored in tents in cold weather, but could do with some work involving night vision gear and communications and tactics that could have been helped with new comms and new sensors and new battle management systems... but they cost too much.
No it won't be new, they were clear that this is upgrade package for current vehicles
Don't you think they might be based on the upgrade package applied to new production vehicles or are you suggesting old upgraded T-90s will be upgraded to a level better than new production vehicles?
And it can't be more useful than T-14, it's whole generation behind
Does it need to be more useful than the T-14?
The T14 is designed to deal with all current western vehicles and future vehicles over the next decade or so...
T-90 seems to be every bit as good as current western vehicles, while coming in at 20 tons lighter than most.
The-thing-next-door wrote:Could someone measure the gun of this "T90M" they 2a46m5 is an l/48 and the 2a82 is an l/60 so it should not be too difficult do difforentiate.
The-thing-next-door wrote:Could someone measure the gun of this "T90M" they 2a46m5 is an l/48 and the 2a82 is an l/60 so it should not be too difficult do difforentiate.
2A82-1M according to Zvezda.
It would not be the 1m, the 1m is the 2a82 with the bore evacuator removed.
They should really just equip all T-90s with the 2a82 and replace the crew stations with automated systems, the use them as expendable tanks in areas where they cannot provide sufficient support.
What I was suggesting is that someone find a good camera angle and measure the lenth as the 2a46m5 is an L/48 while the 2a82 is an L/60.
Nice vids Nibru... first is APFSDS rounds getting hits on target tank turrets, and the second video is an air burst fragmentation round, which is rather interesting too...
In most non Armata units the extra cost of an armata based vehicle is simply not warranted.
The purpose of the Armata tank is to share parts and systems with all the vehicles in the division it is operating as they will all be armata based vehicles too... same wheels same engine same transmission etc etc...
In a normal division with BMPs and BTRs and ACRVs based on MTLBs that is not really important but the T-90 will have the ability to get the job done for a much lower price.
Over time such divisions will likely be replaced by Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon based units which will be better armed and armoured and unified in terms of equipment and systems too.
The-thing-next-door wrote:Could someone measure the gun of this "T90M" they 2a46m5 is an l/48 and the 2a82 is an l/60 so it should not be too difficult do difforentiate.
2A82-1M according to Zvezda.
It would not be the 1m, the 1m is the 2a82 with the bore evacuator removed.
They should really just equip all T-90s with the 2a82 and replace the crew stations with automated systems, the use them as expendable tanks in areas where they cannot provide sufficient support.
What I was suggesting is that someone find a good camera angle and measure the lenth as the 2a46m5 is an L/48 while the 2a82 is an L/60.
IMHO this is not 2A82 (even if some media sources claim it). But perhaps we will see more clearly tomorrow, when the full episode is available. Looking forward !
Eaveryone here seems to have forgotten that the 2a82 is a gun designed for late T-72 series vehicles (T-90s) and therefore does indeed have a bore evacuator while the 2a82 1m is the version used on the Armata with the bore evacuator removed.
The-thing-next-door wrote:Eaveryone here seems to have forgotten that the 2a82 is a gun designed for late T-72 series vehicles (T-90s) and therefore does indeed have a bore evacuator while the 2a82 1m is the version used on the Armata with the bore evacuator removed.
That is true, but it was never installed on the T 72 series because it required major modifications. Also Russia was facing issues manufacturing this specific gun.
State tests of the upgraded T-90M tank are in the final stages
As reported by the TASS news agency on February 24, 2019, state tests of the modernized T-90M Proryv tank are at the final stage, the main characteristics of the vehicle are confirmed. This was announced by the head of the research testing center for armored vehicles of the 3rd Central Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Alexander Panteleev.
“Yes, the car completes state tests. We confirmed the main characteristics stated in the tactical-technical task,” said Panteleev on the program “Military Acceptance” on Zvezda TV channel.
According to him, the T-90M received a fundamentally new tower and a more powerful engine. "It uses an increased power engine compared to the T-90. The tower is a new, unique tower that is radically different from the serial one. The barrel [tools] uses the same one, and it has a design feature - this is the use of metering of the bend of the bore," .
In addition, he said, "Breakthrough" is equipped with a new multi-channel sight, providing the use of weapons at any time of the day, and one of the main features of the upgraded tank was the ability to exchange data with other machines in real time. Armor T-90M is equipped with a special coating that protects against slipping - the same is used on the newest T-14 Armata.
The upgraded tank received a circular surveillance system and a rear-view camera, and, according to Panteleyev, it can be equipped with an active protection complex similar to the Arena complex.
The contract for the supply of deeply modernized T-90M tanks was signed by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and Uralvagonzavod at the Army 2017 forum. As previously reported, the first few dozen of these machines should go to the troops in 2019.
Well unless i missed something in the video, we are seeing good old 2A46M-5 on this particular tank, same as on the T-90MS "Tagil" prototype, which appears to have been dressed up in Nakidka camouflage and upgraded with Kord machine gun for promotional purposes...bringing both tanks on the same level. Only new feature is the muzzle reference system which we already saw on Tagil.
Auto loader (if the same as T-90MS, which i believe is the case for this specific vehicle) is upgraded and capable of firing Svinets 1 & 2. It also has improved protection.
Composition of turret is unknown, but it is said that it differs from the serially produced turrets of previous versions. I think that the composition will be different, but its just a "hunch".
Anyway it is clear that the turret is much more ergonomic at least. Addition of aramid inner liner is also a good feature.
The question i am asking myself is : What will the first production batch vehicles look like ? Will they be a copy of the tank in this video, or will they have different specs ? Testing was almost complete, but AFAIK production vehicles can still be affected by changes. Obviously the vehicles will be mostly the same, but some details could still be different.
In addition to the post above, T-90M has a not so obvious but quite important improvement, it has amour to protect the turret ring while T-90MS doesn't. I failed to upload pic as my internet speed is too slow.
Does anyone know what the armor protection provided by the turret cheeks of the T-90A's turret is?
There is bound to be better information out there than the 550 or so mm of the gun mantlet area everyone goes on about as if the whole Turret offered only that in terms of protection.
The turret cheeks seem to have about twice the LOS thickness of the UFP but they use reflecting plates instead of the composite used for the hull.
ult wrote:Yet another contract for modernization of T-90A to T-90M. Supposedly around 100 units.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3692772.html
That would make it 120 modernized and 40 new T-90M so far.
article says
Comment bmpd. According to the available unofficial information, the said contract for the modernization of T-90 tanks in the T-90M variant provides for the modernization of approximately 100 tank units, and, possibly, this is about the modernization of T-90 tanks manufactured in the 1990s, and not T-90A indicated in the message.
Recall that at the International Military-Technical Forum "Army-2017" in Kubinka on August 24, 2017, the Russian Ministry of Defense signed a contract with Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation for the supply of 30 T-90M tanks ("Object 188M"). According to published data, of the 30 T-90M tanks of this first contract, only ten should be new-built vehicles, and the remaining 20 will be converted during the overhaul and modernization of T-90 tanks. Under the terms of the contract, the delivery of 30 specified T-90M tanks was to be made in 2018-2019, however, according to the latest reports, their delivery to the Ministry of Defense will be launched only in 2019.
On August 21, 2018, at the Army-2018 International Military-Technical Forum, the Russian Defense Ministry signed another contract with UVZ for the supply of a batch of T-90M tanks - according to unofficial information, for 30 new-build units, with a declared delivery deadline of 2019.
so we will have 30+30+100=160 in total modernized+new built T-90Ms
The T-90M reportedly has a new or modified sight. Differs from the Sosna-U by replacing the Thales components with domestic ones and also has a different arrangement of the elements according to some posters on the Otvaga forum
Order from 2016
3 Aug 2016 contract Subject: Implementation of the MF OCD "Development of stabilizer BGSS-P". The term of the contract: 31.12.2018 g. Name the component parts of the ROC "Development of the stabilized block head mirror for the gunner's sight multichannel". The cipher component parts OKR – "Proriv-2-PNM-BGSS-P". Agreement on technical cooperation between JSC "VOMZ" JSC and "UKBTM" (Customer) . The design and manufacture of the prototype of: June 2016. – April 2017. The manufacturing of the prototype and preliminary test (PI) BGSS P. Adjustment RKD according to the results of PI BGSS-P, the assignment of the letter "O".: August 2017. – may 2019. Correction of design documentation according to the results of GI (type testing) of a machine, the assignment of RKD letter "O1". Approval of design documentation for serial production.: in terms of the customer's http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/download/download.html?id=24148068
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