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    Talking bollocks thread #2

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    Karl Haushofer

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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:01 pm

    This is a good example why Russia needs a civil society. People and organizations independent from the government (and not funded from the West) who would DEMAND that the government takes REAL ACTION to improve the aviation security in the country.
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    Vann7

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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:13 pm

    Yep another Accident by the incompetent Russia military.
    This accidents are all consequences as i said before of the Abysmal quality
    controls of Russia ,leaving their aircrafts on the open to freeze ,to corrosion to
    Birds poo ,to Rodents.. and having a very low quality controls in the nation...

    This accidents are not normal.. but only consequences of negligence.

    If Russian aircraft had the proper service ,then vast majority of the accidents
    Russia experience will not happen. Heads needs to Roll in Russia ,this accidents are not Normal.
    I have been complaining about Russia poor quality controls since last year.. but the usual Putin fanboys
    accused me of being a "Troll".  oh..thats normal.. no is not..

    This accidents will increasingly lower the morale of Russia troops ,knowing they could die ,
    if they transported in a military plane because of poor service..  Russia should better ask Private
    companies to take care of the maintenance of Russia military planes. Because what the Russia military
    is doing is to embarrass Russia as a nation and its military.

    Go check in the Russian aviation accidents how the "Experts" including moderators.. tried to convince
    me that so many accidents was "normal". Is so Ridiculous ,that Russia have lost more soldiers in crashes in Russia
    main land ,than in Syria war. Neutral


    The only thing that Holds Russia as a super military power is the Amazing Engineers and Scientist
    Russia have. But they dont repair planes.. neither they supervise quality controls .. thats the job
    of Russia military. it will not be surprising that many of this crashes are consequences of
    internal Sabotage ..traitors paid to sabotage ,Russia military and space industry,
    Because already Dmitry Rogozin was the one who came with that theory in public with the proton accidents issues.
    Later he was forced to change his opinions. When someone so high ranked says such things in public is not
    for coincidence. is however possible that the issues are related with leaving Russian aircraft in the open ,exposed
    to extreme cold in open air. Bad weather can damage aircraft parts.
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    Karl Haushofer

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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:01 pm

    These accidents also makes it harder for the armed forces to recruit servicemen.

    Who would want to serve in a military where there is a good chance of dying each time you fly?
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    Post  Regular on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:26 pm

    What?? Not all servicemen end up flying.
    Well at this point I expect drastic change in Russian aviation. Airframes are not getting any younger.
    There's already discussion going on about what needs to be done. Russians are stubborn bunch and decision makers are slow.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:44 pm

    3 were killed and the helicopter bumped off ground, indication it was pilot error since chopper turned over.

    So not only not Syria related, it's also not equipments fault.
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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:17 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:These accidents also makes it harder for the armed forces to recruit servicemen.

    Who would want to serve in a military where there is a good chance of dying each time you fly?

    exactly..

    This will significantly scare Russian citizens to join the army.. this can be disastrous ,if Putin
    don't act quickly and restore the confidence on Russia aviation. now were that the Naysayers
    saying that Russia accidents are normal ? Laughing

    A major reform needs to be done in Russia quality controls of their military bases.
    and new equipment for monitoring electric hardware and aircraft parts needed. But don't think
    Putin is going to do anything . He is so busy embarrassing Russia at any time he can.

    This also will have a major impact in weapons sales.. nobody will buy Russian aircrafts
    if they fall from the sky everyday.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:52 pm

    Putin is getting old and declining as a leader. Old leaders want to preserve and live in the past, instead of reforming and modernizing.
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    Post  Kimppis on Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:56 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    This is a longer phenomenon. Based on your nickname you are a Finn, right? I'm a Finn too.

    Finland used to be a grand duchy of Russia from 1809 to 1917. This was generally a good time for Finland. Finnish economy developed rapidly and also Finnish political and cultural institutions developed into the phase where independence was possible in 1917 (although it wouldn't have been possible without that Russian traitor Lenin. Lenin has always been well-liked in Finland because of this, there are even a few Lenin statues still standing in Finland).

    Yeah. Wink

    Your description of that era is accurate. Finland was comparatively rich and it started developing comparatively early mainly because the it had been part of Sweden for centuries. So there are some cultural reasons, homogeneous population as well, etc. Maybe some ethnic/biological ones too (I think you're familiar with Anatoly Karlin and his writings about race and IQ? Very interesting stuff), but Russian IQs are high nowadays, so the difference in potential was clearly modest.

    I think Russian Empire was very comparable to Southern Europe (Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal...) actually. They used to be similarly poor until the second half of the 20th century, but nowadays they are almost as developed as Western Europe (especially Spain and even Italy). Compare that to Russia and the rest of Eastern Europe. What explains the difference in living standards in 2018? Very simple: "communism" and central planning meant stagnation from the 1970s onwards and then when the whole system collapsed, massive decline in living standards in the 90s. But since the late 90s and early 2000s EE has been catching up. So we should really wait until... 2030-40. That's all.

    Regular wrote:
    We can move this to Russia section or offtopic, ok?


    Russia doesn't look bad to those countries, but again, Russian can be so much more with right people in power.
    Putin brings stability, but there's that. Communism was stable, but it was stagnating

    I agree, this is my last post on this, but it is kind of related... Safety and all that.

    I didn't say that they're comparable to Africa in any way. Just compared to Finland, it's all relative. And as I mentioned: China and South Korea have similar problems. Why South Korea too? Because it got rich only quite recently, many people forget that.

    And I think you're too negative on Russia, if miketheterrible is the other extreme or something. Firstly, living standards vary quite a lot from country to country, even in Eastern Europe. Are we talking about Estonia or Ukraine? A huge, huge difference. Russian living standards actually compare quite favorably to EE, I'd say they're quite average for the region: Latvia, Hungary, Slovakia, Croatia and they're actually higher than in Romania and Bulgaria.

    Russian PPP GDP per capita is comparable to those countries and even to Poland and Russia also has a very high human development index. Russia is not a negative outlier, and since around 2008 indicators like life expectancy, alcohol consumption, abortion rates, death rate (largely due to alcoholism), infant mortality and even homicide rate have massively improved.

    I think even those driving indicators have probably improved considerably and Russia is clearly not a huge negative outlier. Also in his recent speech, Putin was talking about all of those things: infrastructure, housing, living standards in general. So we should also wait a little bit to see what happens during his last term.
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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:55 pm

    Take a look at the news ,that Russian Media is showing recently.. Mar 6 2018..
    It shows the level of tensions between US and Russia... The things that are not told
    officially by the Russian government in public and instead told by friends of Putin in the media
    are the most interesting.



    If Russia wanted to send a message to PEntagon with meaningful graphics and without alarming the world
    over a new world war..or scaring investors in Russia ,The best place to send more stronger ultimatums will be to see what PUtin's close friends and close journalist are now saying in Russian media that Russia is very aware the Pentagon never miss a report.

    Message Russia is sending..
    -Sit down to the negotiating table for changing your policies and removing your missiles.
    -Don't mess with us ,our missiles are bigger.
    -The program is also telling Pentagon how vulnerable they are ,if Russia detonate nukes
    underwater on the atlantic.





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    Post  gaurav on Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:27 pm

    MikeTerrible wrote:3 were killed ...

    Only 3  ..
    A Mil Mi-8 multipurpose helicopter crashed in Russia’s North Caucasus republic of Chechnya, a spokesman for the local emergencies services told TASS on Wednesday.

    "According to preliminary information, up to eight people were killed in the incident," the spokesman said. "The information on casualties is being verified."

    He added that the helicopter presumably belonged to the Border Guard Service.



    More:
    http://tass.com/world/993173

    I think Russia does not need any Kinzhal or Avangard .. even AN-26 , AN 32 filled with hundreds of Russian suicide troopers willl be enough
    to "overwhelm" US missile defense in Romania and poland ..
    In this case AN-26 will make a subsonic dive from high altitude say 5 kms , on to the us missile defense and along with all the crew and military officers everybody will be killed..

    Putin will be happy because US missile defense got overwhelmed ..
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:37 pm

    First off Gaurav, you are a retard. You come from a shit country were people and soldiers die due to gross incompetence like lack of ammo.

    Second of all, go shit somewhere else

    Third off: http://tass.ru/proisshestviya/5016604

    Fourth: your comment is an insult to Russian soldiers, which I think is a warranted ban imo. I'll ask GarryB
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    Post  par far on Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:53 pm

    gaurav wrote:
    MikeTerrible wrote:3 were killed ...

    Only 3  ..
    A Mil Mi-8 multipurpose helicopter crashed in Russia’s North Caucasus republic of Chechnya, a spokesman for the local emergencies services told TASS on Wednesday.

    "According to preliminary information, up to eight people were killed in the incident," the spokesman said. "The information on casualties is being verified."

    He added that the helicopter presumably belonged to the Border Guard Service.



    More:
    http://tass.com/world/993173

    I think Russia does not need any Kinzhal or Avangard .. even AN-26 , AN 32 filled with hundreds of Russian suicide troopers willl be enough
    to "overwhelm" US missile defense in Romania and poland ..
    In this case AN-26 will make a subsonic dive from high altitude say 5 kms , on to the us missile defense and along with all the crew and military officers everybody will be killed..

    Putin will be happy because US missile defense got overwhelmed ..

    You are a fucking moron. It is terrible that this accident with the Russian Soldiers happened(RIP), this accident has sent shock waves through out the Russian Army and after, this accident older aircraft will be either replaced or go through full modernization. Accidents like this happen to every country.

    Putin won't be happy because this is not good for the moral of the Armed Forces and the country but he is not like Modi where he will call Washington to kiss American ass, so he can get new equipment, what Putin will do is kick ass and make sure adjustments are made to void something like this does not happen in the future.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:27 pm

    gaurav wrote:........
    I think Russia does not need any Kinzhal or Avangard .. even AN-26 , AN 32 filled with hundreds of Russian suicide troopers willl be enough
    to "overwhelm" US missile defense in Romania and poland ..
    In this case AN-26 will make a subsonic dive from high altitude say 5 kms , on to the us missile defense and along with all the crew and military officers everybody will be killed..

    Putin will be happy because US missile defense got overwhelmed ..

    Retard confirmed.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:45 pm

    par far wrote: Accidents like this happen to every country.
    When was the last time the US lost 30 high ranking military officers in the same accident?
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    Post  par far on Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:05 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    par far wrote: Accidents like this happen to every country.
    When was the last time the US lost 30 high ranking military officers in the same accident?


    Aviation industry in Russia is behind the US(no nothing like this has happened in the US), there is no secret about that and that is why it happened(this will need to be addressed.) But trolls like yourself have made this worse than it needs to be.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:25 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    par far wrote: Accidents like this happen to every country.
    When was the last time the US lost 30 high ranking military officers in the same accident?

    They lose people often. This year an air refuler crashed, killed all 7 on board. Lot less old of a plane that the An-32 as well. Last year, plenty of us choppers crashed too.
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    Post  onwiththewar on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:01 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    par far wrote: Accidents like this happen to every country.
    When was the last time the US lost 30 high ranking military officers in the same accident?

    US lost 22 people in 2017 due to aircraft / helicopter crashes.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/24/us-troops-killed-in-plane-crashes-skyrockets-in-2017.html

    Most notably, the KC-130 crash in Mississippi July 2017, which killed 16 people.

    True they did better than Russia but not by much, consider Russian army had maybe less than 10% of fundings and in 2017 had conducted 10 times more combat operations (US army didn't really do much in 2017 apart from dropping a few bombs here and there + hiding behind come Kurds). I say Russia would have had far fewer accidents if all we had to do was sitting doing nothing in some bases, or we didn't have use 40 year old Soviet hardware (that An-26 was made in 1980).

    Still, it's undeniable that many of these accidents could be avoided. Russia would certainly take lessons from them, modernise our transportation fleet, improve pilot trainings and become better.





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    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:11 am

    When you have missile with unlimited range it doesn't matter where you launch it from so this would be redundant (especially with Status-6 in play)

    If NATO is spending money on SOSUS systems around the globe they are spending less on actually useful things...

    Putting unlimited range cruise missiles in a converted Delta IV would be relatively cheap and easy thing to do with the backup of being able to be used for all sorts of other shit like spying, or simply monitoring naval traffic in specific areas... you could put a naval spetsnaz team on board for all sorts of sneaky stuff and of course against third world countries a torpedo from a Delta is just as effective as one from a Yassen.

    If the US wants to be paranoid then you have to take steps to make them even more so... Smile

    Replacing SLBMs with Kalibrs would turn them into excellent arsenal ships, having them tag along with couple of corvettes would turn those corvettes from light patrol into a force capable of flattening a decent sized country at discount price, perfect for Middle East

    Well I would say a corvette would not offer the range and endurance needed, nor the sensors or sensor range needed to make effective use of those long range missiles, but it does suggest the potential for a larger ship that is the opposite of an arsenal ship... make it a long endurance long range ship with basic self defence and good air defence assets, but no attack capability on its own. Fit it with 3-4 helos and perhaps a couple of VSTOL AWACS drones...

    It can operate with one or two converted Deltas with 150 missile tubes each and they can be long range land attack cruise missiles as well as the various anti sub and anti ship missiles...

    On the surface is a relatively large ship with lots of helos and good sensors and air defence but lacking in anti ship and anti sub weapons... hidden underneath is the rest of the iceberg...
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:08 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    gaurav wrote:........
    I think Russia does not need any Kinzhal or Avangard .. even AN-26 , AN 32 filled with hundreds of Russian suicide troopers willl be enough
    to "overwhelm" US missile defense in Romania and poland ..
    In this case AN-26 will make a subsonic dive from high altitude say 5 kms , on to the us missile defense and along with all the crew and military officers everybody will be killed..

    Putin will be happy because US missile defense got overwhelmed ..

    Retard confirmed.

    I found Guarav's post hillarious actually.

    But of course why fight with the Americans in Romania and Poland at all.. with such an army as ours we don't need enemies, really. Never mind all those super-duper missiles Putin showed off.

    And while those officers get my condolences of course - we deserve the losses that we get. Poor pilots, a light-hearted attitude towards aircraft maintance, officers more worried about their careers than making sure their units are functioning properly. I don't know what it is but it's indicative of a problem even a blind man can see that.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:27 am

    flamming_python wrote:.... Poor pilots, a light-hearted attitude towards aircraft maintance, officers more worried about their careers than making sure their units are functioning properly. I don't know what it is but it's indicative of a problem even a blind man can see that.

    Nobody said there are no problems.

    Still, it's the pilots who do the flying (and risking), maintenance attitude also involves pilots and ultimately pilots are officers themselves so keeping units functional is also part of their job. So if they are fine with it then no sweat.

    Far be it for me to tell them how to do their job. I just noticed age and manufacturer of aircraft in question that is all, I ain't flying it.

    Heck, you can always buy more airplanes, easiest thing in the world. It's just product.
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    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:35 am

    par far wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    par far wrote: Accidents like this happen to every country.
    When was the last time the US lost 30 high ranking military officers in the same accident?


    Aviation industry in Russia is behind the US(no nothing like this has happened in the US), there is no secret about that and that is why it happened(this will need to be addressed.) But trolls like yourself have made this worse than it needs to be.

    Americans don't put all their eggs in one basket. Clearly Russian command and control is afflicted by rot that they can fail at such an obvious thing.
    There is no excuse in 2018 to save money as if it was 1998.
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    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:36 am

    It is quite probable that Russia pilots are a source of risk. The idiot who crashed the Sukhoi SJ-100 flight in Indonesia is an example.
    Utterly reckless jock-strap cowboy wannabe who thought his skillz could better atmospheric dynamics.
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    Post  Vann7 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:53 am

    onwiththewar wrote: I say Russia would have had far fewer accidents if all we had to do was sitting doing nothing in some bases, or we didn't have use 40 year old Soviet hardware (that An-26 was made in 1980).

    Still, it's undeniable that many of these accidents could be avoided. Russia would certainly take lessons from them, modernise our transportation fleet, improve pilot trainings and become better.



    Just because is old ,does not means it needs to crash.. being old is not the problem.. poor quality controls ,
    poor Maintenance ,Poor Supervision ,IS the problem. The design of the plane is old ,just like Soyus rocket ,but the parts can be done brand new ,whenever they have fatigue.


     I have been complaining already for 2 years of Russia
    abysmal safety and accidents.. Russia is the only nation of the wold ,that hundreds of its soldiers die sleeping in their
    barracks ,after 2 story building collapse. and it was a new building. Simply the contractors had no supervision from
    the military ,there was ZERO quality controls. PROTON accidents.. according to Russia Government own investigations.
    what was vast majority of their problems?  Poor quality controls.. Poor supervision.  Manuals were replaced for incorrect ones. etc..  WHen you have Poor supervision and Poor quality controls ,what you have in reality is a Mediocre Leadership.   Russia have a very serious Leadership problem... and all this emanates ,from the king itself ,from Putin.

    If Putin was a good leader ,he will identify good talent and put them in managing positions .Being soft and calm and
    boring ,This is not going to inspire anyone General or soldier to do the extra mile ,and be better at their jobs in the army. Perhaps Russia should look at Russia space industry ,the Soyuz rocket management to Run the country ,because they have better record in quality controls than the military.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:13 am

    GarryB wrote:...Well I would say a corvette would not offer the range and endurance needed, nor the sensors or sensor range needed to make effective use of those long range missiles, but it does suggest the potential for a larger ship that is the opposite of an arsenal ship... make it a long endurance long range ship with basic self defence and good air defence assets, but no attack capability on its own. Fit it with 3-4 helos and perhaps a couple of VSTOL AWACS drones...

    Nobody says this Deltas would have to follow just one ship, they can rotate while Delta sticks around.

    As for that larger ship that could do it long term, I'd say that a good helicopter carrier would fit that role perfectly. Big, long range and endurance, plenty of room for sensors and aircraft.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:20 am

    kvs wrote:It is quite probable that Russia pilots are a source of risk.   The idiot who crashed the Sukhoi SJ-100 flight in Indonesia is an example.
    Utterly reckless jock-strap cowboy wannabe who thought his skillz could better atmospheric dynamics.

    Exactly. What I wonder is how do these retards get into such high responsibility positions. Its almost like Russia is recruiting the resident alcoholics in khruschovkas and giving them pilot licenses.

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