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Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2
ALAMO- Posts : 6653
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Scorpius- Posts : 1463
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walle83 wrote:
Yes Kuz last 5 years has been nothing but perfection...
I will try to remember: the combat campaign to Syria was completely successful, the whole way was done at an average speed of 18 knots per hour, which corresponds to the economic course of the ship. The combat missions of the air wing were completed. Otherwise, Kuznetsov behaves like a ship that is more than 30 years old, which suffers from a not very successful design of its power plant, and which has to be serviced without the help of the designers who built it.
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4635
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Scorpius wrote:walle83 wrote:
Yes Kuz last 5 years has been nothing but perfection...
I will try to remember: the combat campaign to Syria was completely successful, the whole way was done at an average speed of 18 knots per hour, which corresponds to the economic course of the ship. The combat missions of the air wing were completed. Otherwise, Kuznetsov behaves like a ship that is more than 30 years old, which suffers from a not very successful design of its power plant, and which has to be serviced without the help of the designers who built it.
I think the problems with the K's boilers are not design-related but are due to poor workmanship (they are Ukrainian BTW...) and poor operating practises in the cash-starved 90s (eg use of seawater for boiler feed instead of demineralised water). IIRC the propusion system is essentially rebuilt now with all new boilers and the steam turbines being pulled for a full refurb. She will still burn mazut heavy fuel oil so some smoke will be inevitable but her new burners are of an effcient design and the smoke produced when bringing cold boilers on-line will be much less.
Stupid Russophobes will continue to chatter like chimps about old history without context, but what can one expect from empty-headed fools?
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Podlodka77- Posts : 2589
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Nikolaev in 1988; "Riga" (later "Varyag" and today "Liaoning") and "Tbilisi", today "Kuznetsov".
I hope this picture hasn't been posted here before.
I hope this picture hasn't been posted here before.
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walle83- Posts : 967
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Scorpius wrote:walle83 wrote:
Yes Kuz last 5 years has been nothing but perfection...
I will try to remember: the combat campaign to Syria was completely successful, the whole way was done at an average speed of 18 knots per hour, which corresponds to the economic course of the ship. The combat missions of the air wing were completed. Otherwise, Kuznetsov behaves like a ship that is more than 30 years old, which suffers from a not very successful design of its power plant, and which has to be serviced without the help of the designers who built it.
Try to remember a few more things...
And calling the Syrian campaign "completely successful" make me doubt your memory.
Podlodka77- Posts : 2589
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MIL.PRESS FLOT
16 November 2022 at 15:51 Subject: Industry
The head of the USC confirmed the postponement of the delivery of "Admiral Kuznetsov" to 2024
Repair and modernization of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov is carried out according to plan, the ship can be transferred to the Navy in the first quarter of 2024. On Wednesday, November 16, General Director of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Rakhmanov told reporters.
"We work. We do everything that depends on us. As always, any repair, if you start doing it, is always rich in surprises. We start to get into separate sections, start to crawl out - obstructions are found. We weld here, strengthen there. But we are moving according to plan. We will do everything to make this happen," Rakhmanov's statement, made at the Transport Week exhibition, is quoted by TASS.
"Admiral Kuznetsov" at the berth of project 16182 in Vidyaevo
S. Shulgin
TAVKR "Admiral Kuznetsov" was brought into the modernized dock of the 35th shipyard in May this year. Later, the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, Alexei Rakhmanov, specified that dock repairs would take three months and last until September, after which the ship would be transferred to the outfitting wall of the plant. In fact, according to media reports, preparations for dock repairs lasted until the end of June.
Recall that the contract for the repair and modernization of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov, which entered service in 1990, was signed in April 2018. The cost of the work is estimated at 60 billion rubles.
In November 2021, TASS sources reported that the return of the Admiral Kuznetsov to service was postponed to 2023. In early June of this year, information appeared that the commissioning of the ship would take place only in 2024.
https://flotprom.ru/2022/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F24/
16 November 2022 at 15:51 Subject: Industry
The head of the USC confirmed the postponement of the delivery of "Admiral Kuznetsov" to 2024
Repair and modernization of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov is carried out according to plan, the ship can be transferred to the Navy in the first quarter of 2024. On Wednesday, November 16, General Director of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Rakhmanov told reporters.
"We work. We do everything that depends on us. As always, any repair, if you start doing it, is always rich in surprises. We start to get into separate sections, start to crawl out - obstructions are found. We weld here, strengthen there. But we are moving according to plan. We will do everything to make this happen," Rakhmanov's statement, made at the Transport Week exhibition, is quoted by TASS.
"Admiral Kuznetsov" at the berth of project 16182 in Vidyaevo
S. Shulgin
TAVKR "Admiral Kuznetsov" was brought into the modernized dock of the 35th shipyard in May this year. Later, the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, Alexei Rakhmanov, specified that dock repairs would take three months and last until September, after which the ship would be transferred to the outfitting wall of the plant. In fact, according to media reports, preparations for dock repairs lasted until the end of June.
Recall that the contract for the repair and modernization of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov, which entered service in 1990, was signed in April 2018. The cost of the work is estimated at 60 billion rubles.
In November 2021, TASS sources reported that the return of the Admiral Kuznetsov to service was postponed to 2023. In early June of this year, information appeared that the commissioning of the ship would take place only in 2024.
https://flotprom.ru/2022/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F24/
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Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5815
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Update: https://topwar.ru/205221-glava-osk-nazval-sroki-vozvraschenija-v-boevoj-sostav-avianesuschego-krejsera-admiral-kuznecov.html
That dry dock looks good!
That dry dock looks good!
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Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2407
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- Post n°933
Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2
Rodion_Romanovic Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:39 am
Podlodka77 wrote:MIL.PRESS FLOT
16 November 2022 at 15:51 Subject: Industry
The head of the USC confirmed the postponement of the delivery of "Admiral Kuznetsov" to 2024
Repair and modernization of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov is carried out according to plan, the ship can be transferred to the Navy in the first quarter of 2024. On Wednesday, November 16, General Director of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Rakhmanov told reporters.
"We work. We do everything that depends on us. As always, any repair, if you start doing it, is always rich in surprises. We start to get into separate sections, start to crawl out - obstructions are found. We weld here, strengthen there. But we are moving according to plan. We will do everything to make this happen," Rakhmanov's statement, made at the Transport Week exhibition, is quoted by TASS.
"Admiral Kuznetsov" at the berth of project 16182 in Vidyaevo
S. Shulgin
TAVKR "Admiral Kuznetsov" was brought into the modernized dock of the 35th shipyard in May this year. Later, the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, Alexei Rakhmanov, specified that dock repairs would take three months and last until September, after which the ship would be transferred to the outfitting wall of the plant. In fact, according to media reports, preparations for dock repairs lasted until the end of June.
Recall that the contract for the repair and modernization of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov, which entered service in 1990, was signed in April 2018. The cost of the work is estimated at 60 billion rubles.
In November 2021, TASS sources reported that the return of the Admiral Kuznetsov to service was postponed to 2023. In early June of this year, information appeared that the commissioning of the ship would take place only in 2024.
https://flotprom.ru/2022/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F24/
Anyway a ship like this is useless in the conflict with ukraine and it is probably better to have it in the Dock until the end of it than risk an accident from some of the US bootlickers (followed by unnecessary escalation that will only make the world a worse place to live for everyone).
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5815
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IMO it could be useful if it was in the Black Sea & operational. Recently the VKS/NAF redeployed fighters from Crimea after bases there were hit, & the Adm. K would've added 1 more threat axis against S. Ukraine, & it could be used as a helo carrier in amhib landings.Anyway a ship like this is useless in the conflict with ukraine..
Besides, it's Granits could be used as LACMs.
GarryB- Posts : 38918
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It is much easier to use land based air power in the Ukraine, an aircraft carrier is about projecting air power to places where you would otherwise not have any.
They have installed lots of new stuff on the carrier and they need to take it somewhere to give it a proper test out when it is ready to hit the water in a couple of years time.
War zones are not the best place the test and evaluate.... sailing it round to the Med and flying a few missions into Syria would make more sense and be a reasonable test of the systems and equipment and aircraft.
Sailing into the Black Sea would not be an option.
They have installed lots of new stuff on the carrier and they need to take it somewhere to give it a proper test out when it is ready to hit the water in a couple of years time.
War zones are not the best place the test and evaluate.... sailing it round to the Med and flying a few missions into Syria would make more sense and be a reasonable test of the systems and equipment and aircraft.
Sailing into the Black Sea would not be an option.
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Podlodka77- Posts : 2589
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December 16, 10:25 am
Dock repair of the aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov" is almost completed
Within a few days, the ship will reach the pier.
MOSCOW, 16 December. /TASS/. Works at the dock for the repair of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov" of project 1143.5 are almost completed, within a few days it will come to the berth. This was announced on Friday by the General Director of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) Alexei Rakhmanov.
"The docking work is almost completed, all that remains for us now is to prepare for its setting afloat. This will happen within the next few days: we will fill the pit again with water, we will dismantle the jumper, the aircraft carrier will go to the pier, where it will complete its repairs," he said in an interview with the Rossiya-24 TV channel.
The head of the USC also recalled that the second part of the work had to be redirected due to the incident with the PD-50 dock. As a result, two small docks at the 35th shipyard were connected.
"According to the schedule, [the completion of the repair of the Admiral Kuznetsov] is currently in 2024," Rakhmanov specified.
Earlier it was reported that in early June the Admiral Kuznetsov was placed in a modernized dry dock of the 35th Shipyard branch of the Zvezdochka ship repair center. At the same time, the deadlines for the delivery of the ship were shifted.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16611707
Dock repair of the aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov" is almost completed
Within a few days, the ship will reach the pier.
MOSCOW, 16 December. /TASS/. Works at the dock for the repair of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov" of project 1143.5 are almost completed, within a few days it will come to the berth. This was announced on Friday by the General Director of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) Alexei Rakhmanov.
"The docking work is almost completed, all that remains for us now is to prepare for its setting afloat. This will happen within the next few days: we will fill the pit again with water, we will dismantle the jumper, the aircraft carrier will go to the pier, where it will complete its repairs," he said in an interview with the Rossiya-24 TV channel.
The head of the USC also recalled that the second part of the work had to be redirected due to the incident with the PD-50 dock. As a result, two small docks at the 35th shipyard were connected.
"According to the schedule, [the completion of the repair of the Admiral Kuznetsov] is currently in 2024," Rakhmanov specified.
Earlier it was reported that in early June the Admiral Kuznetsov was placed in a modernized dry dock of the 35th Shipyard branch of the Zvezdochka ship repair center. At the same time, the deadlines for the delivery of the ship were shifted.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16611707
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limb- Posts : 1550
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Russia doesnt need the kuznetsov. It needs 200 koalitsiyas, 15000 orlan 30s, 60000 krasnopol M shells, 400 malkas.
Isos- Posts : 11296
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Well it is always good to have a carrier. But the way they use it majes it useless. They need better planes on it. 4 su-33, 4 mig-29k and 12 ka 52 is a bad choice. They also need better weapons like kh-59mk2 and some hypersonic cruise missiles rathzr than few outdates r-27.
wilhelm- Posts : 345
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Sigh...this again.
At the very least, it keeps a core of fixed wing naval competency alive.
To start these core competencies from scratch all over again once it is lost is a very long and expensive business.
This is the primary reason Kuznetsov is kept.
It also allows them to develop or discard features and doctrines in a potential follow up carrier.
At the very least, it keeps a core of fixed wing naval competency alive.
To start these core competencies from scratch all over again once it is lost is a very long and expensive business.
This is the primary reason Kuznetsov is kept.
It also allows them to develop or discard features and doctrines in a potential follow up carrier.
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GarryB- Posts : 38918
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Russia doesnt need the kuznetsov. It needs 200 koalitsiyas, 15000 orlan 30s, 60000 krasnopol M shells, 400 malkas.
It is not a binary decision... Russia needs both.
If it wants to trade with the world with its own shipping and its own brokerage firms and its own insurance, then it will need an ocean going navy to support that access to the worlds oceans.
It doesn't really need a carrier now but in 10 years time with destroyers and cruisers in production a carrier and new carriers laid down will be a useful thing... some might say critical to assure access to the worlds oceans and world wide trade.
But the way they use it majes it useless. They need better planes on it. 4 su-33, 4 mig-29k and 12 ka 52 is a bad choice.
They are gap fillers... their Ka-52s will be on their helicopter carriers (Ivan Rogov class), the Kuznetsov will carry a mix of anti sub helicopters and rescue helicopters and AEW helicopters.... right now... Ka-27, Ka-32, and Ka-31, but over the next few years they will likely be replaced by these three versions of the Minoga Ka-65, or perhaps a drone based AEW platform...
The Su-33 will be replaced by a naval Su-57 and the MiG-29K will be replaced eventually by that twin engined MiG carrier type or the Su-75.
It also allows them to develop or discard features and doctrines in a potential follow up carrier.
They can test ideas and equipment and systems and tactics to see if they work in the real world or not... Syria is an excellent testing ground, but of course no doubt a civilian Ukrainian ship might sail out of the black sea with containers with anti ship missiles to try to attack it so it will always need to be ready for that sort of thing.
It has 192 naval TOR missiles of the old very large type. The current models are half the size so 384 could be carried in the same volume of space. They have a new version in development that is designed to shoot down drones that is half the size again meaning even more missiles... and that does not include the naval Pantsir systems they would also have... likely 6 to 8 each with 40 missiles and two gatling guns per mount.
It would be interesting to replace a few of the individual 30mm gun mounts with 57mm gun mounts actually...
The upgrade potential is significant and with the air component systems like Redut become even more useful... with a radar in the air on a MiG-29 or Su-33 then S-350s could be launched out to 150km even at sea skimming targets... target location updates are all it needs to get close enough to use its own radar to attack the incoming threat.
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walle83- Posts : 967
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Kuznetsov had a small fire again.
https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2022/12/22/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-admiral-kuznetsov-catches-fire-en-news
https://ria.ru/20221222/vozgoranie-1840482365.html
Admiral Kuznetsov, Russia’s only aircraft carrier ship which is now under repair, has caught fire, RIA Novosti cites Alexey Rakhmanov, chairman of the United Shipbuilding Corporation.
“There was a minor emergency during repair works. The fire has been extinguished. All fire systems have worked properly. No damage was inflicted and nobody was injured,” Rakhmanov says.
A total of 20 people were evacuated from the ship, TASS cites its source in the emergency services. “The flame base was in the cabin area aport. The fire was declared to be of high complexity,” TASS says.
https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2022/12/22/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-admiral-kuznetsov-catches-fire-en-news
https://ria.ru/20221222/vozgoranie-1840482365.html
Admiral Kuznetsov, Russia’s only aircraft carrier ship which is now under repair, has caught fire, RIA Novosti cites Alexey Rakhmanov, chairman of the United Shipbuilding Corporation.
“There was a minor emergency during repair works. The fire has been extinguished. All fire systems have worked properly. No damage was inflicted and nobody was injured,” Rakhmanov says.
A total of 20 people were evacuated from the ship, TASS cites its source in the emergency services. “The flame base was in the cabin area aport. The fire was declared to be of high complexity,” TASS says.
George1- Posts : 18304
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send this ship for scrap and build 3-4 new aircraft carriers
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GarryB- Posts : 38918
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“There was a minor emergency during repair works
Scrap an aircraft carrier because of a minor emergency?
No damage was inflicted and nobody was injured,
This is nothing, but obviously the doomsayers will have their say...
Russia does not need aircraft carriers because the west will be nice and treat them fairly in international waters because they are civilised...
Well Russia needs the Kuznetsov and this minor incident changes nothing at all.
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Arrow- Posts : 2707
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Well Russia needs the Kuznetsov and this minor incident changes nothing at all. wrote:
Russia needs a new aircraft carrier, not this junk.
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walle83- Posts : 967
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The fire was small this time and im sure it will not change the timetable very much.
It does however catch doubt once again over the shipyards fire saftey controlls.
It does however catch doubt once again over the shipyards fire saftey controlls.
GarryB- Posts : 38918
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It does not make sense to build a new aircraft carrier until they have the destroyers and cruisers needed to support its operation, and they wont be making one, they will make at least two at a time to reduce costs...
This is a nothing incident, the onboard fire suppression systems seem to have done their job... if you weren't such negative bastards you might even say lessons learned well done.
An aircraft carrier is like a small town in terms of size and infrastructure, and being a work site for workmen doing all sorts of things fires and accidents are to be expected and certainly not something to fall to pieces over.
Over the last few years we have seen fires on Chinese and American ships... the American ship burned for three days down to the waterline for goodness sake.
This sort of thing happens.
Some people obviously live safe lives covered in cotton wool... I be most of you refuse to play chess because the instant you lose a single piece you fall to pieces and throw the board on the floor.
It does however catch doubt once again over the shipyards fire saftey controlls.
This is a nothing incident, the onboard fire suppression systems seem to have done their job... if you weren't such negative bastards you might even say lessons learned well done.
An aircraft carrier is like a small town in terms of size and infrastructure, and being a work site for workmen doing all sorts of things fires and accidents are to be expected and certainly not something to fall to pieces over.
Over the last few years we have seen fires on Chinese and American ships... the American ship burned for three days down to the waterline for goodness sake.
This sort of thing happens.
Some people obviously live safe lives covered in cotton wool... I be most of you refuse to play chess because the instant you lose a single piece you fall to pieces and throw the board on the floor.
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walle83- Posts : 967
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Negative? Im saying the ship probably wont be delayed. The fire support system worked well this time.
The problem is why the fires starts in the first place. Yes it happens to everyone, but Russia seems to be most troubled by this. Agian and again and again.
The problem is why the fires starts in the first place. Yes it happens to everyone, but Russia seems to be most troubled by this. Agian and again and again.
limb- Posts : 1550
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Russia needs a new aircraft carrier, not this junk.
Its a very young ship compared to the parchims, type 26 frigates, etc. It definitely would be a useful upgrade. Remove granits to increase hangar size, or add UKSKs. Add an extremely powerful GaN AESA radar array, and it would be a very useful command ship. Also add a massive amount of paket anti-torp systems.
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walle83- Posts : 967
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Some pictures leaked out.
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Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2407
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- Post n°950
Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2
Rodion_Romanovic Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:02 am
George1 wrote:send this ship for scrap and build 3-4 new aircraft carriers
As Wilhelm said
wilhelm wrote:
At the very least, it keeps a core of fixed wing naval competency alive.
To start these core competencies from scratch all over again once it is lost is a very long and expensive business.
This is the primary reason Kuznetsov is kept.
It also allows them to develop or discard features and doctrines in a potential follow up carrier.
Even if they started building now, the entry into service of a potential new Russian carrier would not enter into service before 10 years.
In the meanwhile, even with the use of the NITKA training center near Saki in Crimea (there is another one, in construction in Yeysk in Krasnodar Krai, but apparently the construction has stopped) you could only simulate carrier takeoff and landings but not carrier operation altogether.
Even if only as training carrier, the Russian Navy will have to keep the Kuznetov in order to be to maintain a carrier based aviation and keep trained and current naval aviators.
At least the transition from operation from the Kuznetsov to the new carrier should be easier than starting again with only ground based carrier simulator experience.
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