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Log inThere is no way the shipyard management did it intentionally while K was in dock.
They'd be facing a purging that'd make Yezhov & Beria blush.
They'd be facing a purging that'd make Yezhov & Beria blush.
Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2
hoom- Posts : 2078
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mnztr
mnztr- Posts : 379
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hoom wrote:There is no way the shipyard management did it intentionally while K was in dock.
They'd be facing a purging that'd make Yezhov & Beria blush.
They did it when the ship was already untied and was already floating..then things went horribly wrong lol
Vladimir79- Posts : 2952
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hoom wrote:There is no way the shipyard management did it intentionally while K was in dock.
They'd be facing a purging that'd make Yezhov & Beria blush.
They had a purging four months before it happened. The dock captain and his crew were removed for some reason.
hoom- Posts : 2078
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By govt or by management?
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 4011
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There was no guarantee that a new dock would be installed at that yard. They could have done it after Adm K left the dock, if that was intentional. IMO, it was just the classic Russian hope that "nothing bad would happen".
USC has promised a new ADS on Admiral Kuznetsov after repairs
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/17/05/2019/5cdeae479a794788459f780d
USC has promised a new ADS on Admiral Kuznetsov after repairs
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/17/05/2019/5cdeae479a794788459f780d
GarryB- Posts : 24863
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The easiest and cheapest upgrade would be to upgrade the naval TOR system with the newest models with smaller lighter longer ranged missiles that they could carry twice as many of in the existing space, plus the AK turrets could be replaced with Duet turrets, and Kashtan-M replaced with Pantsir-SM...
Replacing some of the propulsion should allow a speed increase
Replacing some of the propulsion should allow a speed increase
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 4011
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More speed will create a stronger wind over the deck & heavier laden fighters may be able to take off it.
mnztr- Posts : 379
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Tsavo Lion wrote:There was no guarantee that a new dock would be installed at that yard. They could have done it after Adm K left the dock, if that was intentional. IMO, it was just the classic Russian hope that "nothing bad would happen".
USC has promised a new ADS on Admiral Kuznetsov after repairs
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/17/05/2019/5cdeae479a794788459f780d
They knew the ship could not be repaired without one, walk away from the Kuz? no way. too big to fail. That is why they took the props off, so the ship could be sailed elsewhere...
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 971
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- Post n°584
Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2
Rodion_Romanovic on Fri May 24, 2019 7:04 pm
https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%97%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B04/
Edit
This plan existed at least since
2012
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/397309.html
flotprom.ru wrote:Preparatory work on creating a dry dock for "Admiral Kuznetsov
May 24, 2019 at 17:02 Topic: Industry
Specialists of the Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center continue to prepare technical documentation for combining the dry docks of the 35th ship repair plant. There in 2020, the docking repair of the heavy aircraft carrier of the project 11435 "Admiral Kuznetsov" will begin. This Mil.Press FlotProm reported on "Star".
The relevant work began to lead at the beginning of the year, but the information was not disclosed.
The new facility will allow docking of the same types of surface ships and submarines as the sunken floating dock PD-50, an informed industry source told the publication. He added that the project to unite the docks was prepared in the early 2010s, but then they did not find money to implement it.
(...)
Edit
This plan existed at least since
2012
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/397309.html
(...)
According to the reconstruction plan, the small and large chambers of the 35th SRK dock will be merged and extended. If now the enterprise can repair only large anti-submarine ships, then in two years heavy aircraft carriers and nuclear missile cruisers of the Northern Fleet, as well as large tankers, can be repaired here. All military facilities will be grouped in the center, there will also be heavy aircraft-carrying cruisers "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov" and Vikramaditya (? -Bmpd). These works are aimed at expanding the list of works carried out at the plant and reducing costs.
(...)
hoom- Posts : 2078
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Good find, I'd only seen a 2016 version before.
PD-50 was already at end-of-life with replacement overdue & this seems to have been the planned replacement.
Don't understand quite why the Navy/Govt didn't nearly immediately go 'oh yeah, we've been planning this replacement for years already so we'll just accelerate that now'.
I guess it makes sense to evaluate other options before going ahead but I'd have thought they'd have already done that before
PD-50 was already at end-of-life with replacement overdue & this seems to have been the planned replacement.
Don't understand quite why the Navy/Govt didn't nearly immediately go 'oh yeah, we've been planning this replacement for years already so we'll just accelerate that now'.
I guess it makes sense to evaluate other options before going ahead but I'd have thought they'd have already done that before
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 4011
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Update: https://lenta.ru/news/2019/06/10/pd50/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com
They r not happy but there is no other feasible alternative. Better later than never!
They r not happy but there is no other feasible alternative. Better later than never!
JohninMK- Posts : 7513
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Tsavo Lion wrote:Update: https://lenta.ru/news/2019/06/10/pd50/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com
They r not happy but there is no other feasible alternative. Better later than never!
Via Yandex, the outcome of yesterdsay's meeting should be interesting, it was mentioned as being in the future in the article.
The Navy (Navy) of Russia is not satisfied with the proposed "United shipbuilding Corporation" (USC) temporary scheme of the dock operation, which allows to complete the repair of the only Russian aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov"on time. This was reported by TASS source in the shipbuilding industry.
The interlocutor of the Agency said that the last docking of the ship was decided to be carried out at the facilities of the 35th ship repair plant (SRZ, the branch of "Asterisk"), which must be upgraded before that. The contractor requires 2.5 years to repair the sites, which automatically breaks the deadlines for the completion of repair work on the aircraft carrier. On the other hand, the proposed USC temporary scheme of the dock operation, which allows to meet the deadlines, does not suit the Navy.
"The meeting on repair and modernization of Admiral Kuznetsov will be held [June 10] at the 35th shipyard by the new commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy Admiral Nikolai Evmenov. The military and industry will participate," the source added.
In may, it was reported that the dock repair of Admiral Kuznetsov will continue in 2020 at the construction, which is the Union of two dry docks of the 35th SRZ, for which the relevant technical documentation is currently being prepared.
In April, defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that the repair and modernization of "Admiral Kuznetsov" completed a quarter, and all work will be completed before the end of 2020.
In October 2018 on the 82nd SRZ in the village of Roslyakovo (Murmansk region), where the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" was repaired, the floating dock PD-50 drowned. At the same time, two tower cranes fell on the dock, one of which broke through the deck of the aircraft carrier, provoking the appearance of a hole measuring four by five meters. The ship was towed to the 35th SRZ after the incident.
hoom- Posts : 2078
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Hmm, temporary setup -> definitely not going to have the new joined dock ready for K.
I guess something like they want to do the basic work to join the two docks, put K in and close the 'gate' with a temp coffer dam, pump out & do the K work, then finish off the dock properly for future after K is done.
I guess something like they want to do the basic work to join the two docks, put K in and close the 'gate' with a temp coffer dam, pump out & do the K work, then finish off the dock properly for future after K is done.
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 971
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- Post n°589
Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2
Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:02 pm
https://ria.ru/20190627/1555957248.html
They went from 2.5 years to 1 year to complete the upgrade of the docks. I believed thos kind of feats were only possible during Staliyn time with the menace of being sent to the gulags in case of failure...
They went from 2.5 years to 1 year to complete the upgrade of the docks. I believed thos kind of feats were only possible during Staliyn time with the menace of being sent to the gulags in case of failure...
Google translate wrote:
The dock under the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" is upgraded over the year
PARK PATRIOT (Moscow region), June 27 - RIA Novosti. Modernization of shipyards of the 35th shipbuilding plant (Murmansk) to dock the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov will last for a year, this will not affect the delivery of the ship in 2021, the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) Alexey Rakhmanov told Thursday.
Terms of delivery of the aircraft carrier risked moving due to a recent accident: last October at the 82nd ship repair plant (Murmansk region) the floating dock PD-50 went under water, hitting the deck of the only aircraft carrier of the Russian Navy.
“From July 1, we will start the modernization works of the dock. It will take a year to ensure docking of the Kuznetsov. We must have time to give the fleet a ship in 2021,” Rakhmanov said during the Army-2019 forum.
On the eve of the plant "Zvezdochka" (included in USC) signed a contract with one of the Russian banks to finance the repair of shipyards of the 35th plant.
According to Rakhmanov, the docking of the ship and the modernization of shipyards will be carried out simultaneously. “If defects on the units are detected on the ship, which often occurs during repairs, we will simultaneously carry out repairs and eliminate defects,” the head of USC noted.
The military department concluded a state contract with the Zvezdochka Center for the restoration of technical readiness and the modernization of an aircraft carrier in April last year. Shipbuilders themselves have previously assured that they will perform the work on time despite the emergency with a floating dock.
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 1776
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They said it will take one year, Russia has said many things. Don't count your chickens before they hatch,
hoom- Posts : 2078
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This is a pretty interesting phrase.the docking of the ship and the modernization of shipyards will be carried out simultaneously
I think it fits with my guess of breaking the wall & doors, putting K in then building a coffer dam & draining it to do the repairs.
Adds the unexpected bit of actually finishing off the dock work while K is in there, maybe even installing the doors.
I can see why Navy would be iffy about it but its a way to get K out of the water significantly earlier than if they waited for the dock to be completed before putting K in.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 4011
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If they can do it safely w/o damaging the Adm. K again, by all means!
OTH, even if its refit completed later than planned, no big deal- it's not essential to Russia's survival & security.
OTH, even if its refit completed later than planned, no big deal- it's not essential to Russia's survival & security.
PapaDragon- Posts : 9103
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https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-needs-head-scraper-experts-65956
...As Americans, Moss and Vest sarcastically advised Moscow to continue pouring money and effort into Kuznetsov. “Russia will be doing NATO and the U.S. Navy a huge favor if it decides to spend the money, repair-yard time, and human capital needed to overhaul the ski-jump-ramp carrier that is clearly an albatross of the Cold War era.”
Big_Gazza- Posts : 1952
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PapaDragon wrote:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-needs-head-scraper-experts-65956
...As Americans, Moss and Vest sarcastically advised Moscow to continue pouring money and effort into Kuznetsov. “Russia will be doing NATO and the U.S. Navy a huge favor if it decides to spend the money, repair-yard time, and human capital needed to overhaul the ski-jump-ramp carrier that is clearly an albatross of the Cold War era.”
What can you expect from establishment scribblers at the US Naval War College? What a pair of dicks...
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 971
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- Post n°595
Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2
Rodion_Romanovic on Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:35 am
PapaDragon wrote:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-needs-head-scraper-experts-65956
...As Americans, Moss and Vest sarcastically advised Moscow to continue pouring money and effort into Kuznetsov. “Russia will be doing NATO and the U.S. Navy a huge favor if it decides to spend the money, repair-yard time, and human capital needed to overhaul the ski-jump-ramp carrier that is clearly an albatross of the Cold War era.”
Quite a bit of bullshit. They are also mixing up the situation with the dry docks from 82nd and 35th shipyard.
The propulsion issue had been already fixed for the indian carrier, and if I am not mistaken new boilers have already been mounted on Kuz.
The loss of 2 aircrafts was bad, but it has nothing tovdo with the propulsion issues.
And, even more important, the northern fleet needs big dry docks anyways, so the money spent there would not be a waste at all.
GarryB- Posts : 24863
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Which just goes to show there is not much on the national interest website worth reading.
The last place Russia should look for advice to either follow or to completely ignore is there.
Wonder what sort of chance there would be of an article that suggests that with new hypersonic manouvering missiles entering service that the US Navy should just get rid of all its fixed wing carriers completely and just go for more SAMs on their conventional non aircraft carrying ships?
It would save trillions of dollars... think how many more pockets could be lined with corrupt money... they would have to expand the 1% to be the 3%...
The last place Russia should look for advice to either follow or to completely ignore is there.
Wonder what sort of chance there would be of an article that suggests that with new hypersonic manouvering missiles entering service that the US Navy should just get rid of all its fixed wing carriers completely and just go for more SAMs on their conventional non aircraft carrying ships?
It would save trillions of dollars... think how many more pockets could be lined with corrupt money... they would have to expand the 1% to be the 3%...
hoom- Posts : 2078
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Not to defend that typical bit of tripe but browsing around there I ran into this actually brilliant take on US foreign policy insanity https://nationalinterest.org/blog/skeptics/understanding-failure-us-foreign-policy-albright-doctrine-60477GarryB wrote:Which just goes to show there is not much on the national interest website worth reading.
They do have some superb bits like that from time to time, why on such an otherwise complete trash site I do not understand
Isos- Posts : 5445
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Would be nice if they upgrade one of the t-50 prototypes to naval variant. And test it in Crimea before Kuznetsov comes back anf then test from the carrier.
kumbor- Posts : 293
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Isos wrote:Would be nice if they upgrade one of the t-50 prototypes to naval variant. And test it in Crimea before Kuznetsov comes back anf then test from the carrier.
Construction changes for naval aircraft are far more serious! They need different materials, rust proof from the influence of seawater and spray, much strenghtened undercarriage, etc.
Isos- Posts : 5445
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kumbor wrote:Isos wrote:Would be nice if they upgrade one of the t-50 prototypes to naval variant. And test it in Crimea before Kuznetsov comes back anf then test from the carrier.
Construction changes for naval aircraft are far more serious! They need different materials, rust proof from the influence of seawater and spray, much strenghtened undercarriage, etc.
I was saying to turn it into a naval variant prototype. Not a serial fighter. That would underline the needs for a naval variant and speed up the development.
They don't need big changes apart the landing gears. Everything else is already strong enough or protected against rust.
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