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Log inVladimir79 wrote:$400 million propulsion refurbishment.
If that figure is accurate, there's your corruption right there.
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Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
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If that figure is accurate, there's your corruption right there.
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4758
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KiloGolf wrote:If that figure is accurate, there's your corruption right there.
A Greek talking about corruption... now THATS funny
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4758
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Vladimir79 wrote:KiloGolf wrote:
This is just bad management and corruption. Russian admirals don't want to admit that they need to either upgrade it meaningfully (for which they have to fight for $$$ and lobby hard) or dump it. They prefer to keep it sailing, in whatever horrific state, sporting proudly its BBQ smoker and cement AESA panels, and keep their jobs. The MIC in shipbuilding overcharges such medium-term contracts, making sure the ship will be back for repairs very soon. The Russian politicians get to keep their toy and attempt to show off the flag (although the recent Syrian expedition was a clvsterfvck). Everyone is a winner, apart from the Russian taxpayer and their Navy.
Apparently to point that out is Russophobic.
It was supposed to be a $2 billion modernisation that turned into a $400 million propulsion refurbishment.
They are doing significantly more than just a propulsion system upgrade... Pls don't throw red meat to the HATOstani jihadists.
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
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Big_Gazza wrote:KiloGolf wrote:If that figure is accurate, there's your corruption right there.
A Greek talking about corruption... now THATS funny
Greek shipping giants are much more careful with spending when procuring/maintaining tankers and container ships than the Russian Navy.
Like, half a billion USD for some steam turbine boilers, really?
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4758
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..except it isn't. The K is not just in for propulsion repair, and you know it, but as a fundamentally dishonest little pissant, you choose to lie about it in a vain attempt to further your Russophobe screed.KiloGolf wrote:
Like, half a billion USD for some steam turbine boilers, really?
kvs
kvs- Posts : 15480
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NATO fanboi retards bitching about Russian overhaul costs. They conveniently forget about the costs in the USA.
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=69153
https://news.usni.org/2017/07/27/repair-bill-uss-fitzgerald-collision-will-cost-fix-uss-cole-terror-attack
https://www.naval-technology.com/features/featureapril-stories-abraham-lincoln-overhaul-surveillance-jellyfish/
A $2.6 billion contract to refuel and modernize the USS Abraham Lincoln. Nothing like installing new rocket
launcher canisters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Abraham_Lincoln_(CVN-72)
BTW, for the retard(s):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_aircraft_carrier_Admiral_Kuznetsov
So the two ships are almost the same age.
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=69153
https://news.usni.org/2017/07/27/repair-bill-uss-fitzgerald-collision-will-cost-fix-uss-cole-terror-attack
https://www.naval-technology.com/features/featureapril-stories-abraham-lincoln-overhaul-surveillance-jellyfish/
A $2.6 billion contract to refuel and modernize the USS Abraham Lincoln. Nothing like installing new rocket
launcher canisters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Abraham_Lincoln_(CVN-72)
BTW, for the retard(s):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_aircraft_carrier_Admiral_Kuznetsov
So the two ships are almost the same age.
marat- Posts : 352
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kvs wrote:
...fanboyhatersretardsbs...
So the two ships are almost the same age.
Just one is twice bigger nuclear powered carrier that actually works and on which planes could safely land. And she is party of the navy that have sufficient funds to cover maintenance of whole fleet and to build enough new ships to be worlds biggest navy.
Another one is a bit different story don't you think?
And is it possible that you are such a big assholes that you are not capable for any discussion without personal attacks and insulting's?
In good old MP you would be banned in first day.
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4758
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marat wrote:Just one is twice bigger nuclear powered carrier that actually works and on which planes could safely land. And she is party of the navy that have sufficient funds to cover maintenance of whole fleet and to build enough new ships to be worlds biggest navy.
Another one is a bit different story don't you think?
And is it possible that you are such a big assholes that you are not capable for any discussion without personal attacks and insulting's?
In good old MP you would be banned in first day.
Ask the Jihadis in Syria if the K "works". Sure, the Navy lost 2 planes for reasons related to equipment failures, but the K worked as she needed to, her propulsion didn't break down, and she didn't provide an embarrassing propaganda smorgasbord for the HATOstanis.
Regarding "personal attacks" its a sign of the frustration that some feel when they (we) must constantly bat away the utter BS diatribes that emanates from certain posters in this forum who simply insist on shit-canning everything that doesn't meet with their approval. The Russian surface fleet is low on the pecking order, and many programs have been impacted by lack of funds, lack of engines (due to Ukropi orc antics) or the generally poor state of shipyards that have been rundown for decades due to a lack of orders. Its not an ideal situation, and everyone knows it, but instead of cutting the Navy some slack, these posters puke the same BS time and time again.
If they stop there incessant bitchy whining, there just may be less "personal attacks". Appeasement is not a option, so its their choice.
Hole- Posts : 10982
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65% of the naval air force of Amiland is out of order. 50% of their ships and subs are in bitter need of maintenance. And that is according to the sailors and pilots, not some dumb politician.
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
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kvs wrote:A $2.6 billion contract to refuel and modernize the USS Abraham Lincoln. Nothing like installing new rocket
launcher canisters.
Actually that figure makes sense in the US case, you got a bigger, more complex , nuclear-powered boat and the purchasing power of USD is much lower in there than 400 million USD in Russia. The Lincoln is also the first CVN in USN to be converted for F-35C.
Also last time I checked the USS Abraham Lincoln does not sail around the globe with tug escort.
Big_Gazza wrote:Ask the Jihadis in Syria if the K "works".
The fish off the Syrian coast are thankful for the two coral reef donations by RuN, in less than 3 weeks, back in 2016.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13372
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Big_Gazza wrote:Ask the Jihadis in Syria if the K "works".
The will tell you it doesn't because they know that aircraft from "K" were promptly moved to Hmeim AB from where they operated for the majority of their deployment lest they end up like other two...
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3752
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National Defense and aboard interest to your country are far too important to cut any "slack".
Yes the russian shipbuilding industry has a world of problems, the problem here is everytime someone points that out you got white knights running to the Rescue.
In the end, this is the military, doesn't matter how low on the pecking order you are, the military secures many aspects of a countries interests. You don't get a gold star for trying, in the military RESULTS are what matter, not excuses has to why you cannot do better. The navy has very important jobs, in this world, you need a powerful navy to secure your interests.
In some cases they have done okay but in MOST of them the shipbuilding industry has performed like shit not able to build vessels at a decent pace, takes them forever to overhaul things, utterly corrupt management staff the list here goes on and on and on and lets not getting started with the number of delays they have.
However to point this out and call them out when they are doing bad isn't okay to some, The fact is the Russian shipbuilding industry has shown times and time and time and time again how utterly crap it is has a whole, a few cases here and there doesn't prove anything.
I am frankly sick of hearing about the engines has an Excuse back when Russia was getting rich off high oil prices they had MORE than enough extra funds to start domestic engines production, yet they ignored this and only did it when it was clear they couldn't buy shitty Ukrainian engines anymore.
So you expect me to cut them "slack" when that is something they had have done long before it becomes a problem? no it's stupid decisions like that have constantly led their shipbuilding industry into the ground and ruin. Why they serve as a "How not to run a shipyard" example.
Oh I am sorry Pella can actually do their goddam job, funny how the privately owned yard outperforms all of the state-owned ones, Hell imo give pella control over that large shipyard they building and let them run it how they wish because they can clearly do better then anyone else in Russia.
The "K" also performed like shit in syria, and like someone mentioned most of its aircraft where rebased and conduct operations from the base, they had afew sorties from the carrier nothing that really stands out.
Yes the russian shipbuilding industry has a world of problems, the problem here is everytime someone points that out you got white knights running to the Rescue.
In the end, this is the military, doesn't matter how low on the pecking order you are, the military secures many aspects of a countries interests. You don't get a gold star for trying, in the military RESULTS are what matter, not excuses has to why you cannot do better. The navy has very important jobs, in this world, you need a powerful navy to secure your interests.
In some cases they have done okay but in MOST of them the shipbuilding industry has performed like shit not able to build vessels at a decent pace, takes them forever to overhaul things, utterly corrupt management staff the list here goes on and on and on and lets not getting started with the number of delays they have.
However to point this out and call them out when they are doing bad isn't okay to some, The fact is the Russian shipbuilding industry has shown times and time and time and time again how utterly crap it is has a whole, a few cases here and there doesn't prove anything.
I am frankly sick of hearing about the engines has an Excuse back when Russia was getting rich off high oil prices they had MORE than enough extra funds to start domestic engines production, yet they ignored this and only did it when it was clear they couldn't buy shitty Ukrainian engines anymore.
So you expect me to cut them "slack" when that is something they had have done long before it becomes a problem? no it's stupid decisions like that have constantly led their shipbuilding industry into the ground and ruin. Why they serve as a "How not to run a shipyard" example.
Oh I am sorry Pella can actually do their goddam job, funny how the privately owned yard outperforms all of the state-owned ones, Hell imo give pella control over that large shipyard they building and let them run it how they wish because they can clearly do better then anyone else in Russia.
The "K" also performed like shit in syria, and like someone mentioned most of its aircraft where rebased and conduct operations from the base, they had afew sorties from the carrier nothing that really stands out.
marat- Posts : 352
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Big_Gazza wrote:marat wrote:Just one is twice bigger nuclear powered carrier that actually works and on which planes could safely land. And she is party of the navy that have sufficient funds to cover maintenance of whole fleet and to build enough new ships to be worlds biggest navy.
Another one is a bit different story don't you think?
And is it possible that you are such a big assholes that you are not capable for any discussion without personal attacks and insulting's?
In good old MP you would be banned in first day.
Ask the Jihadis in Syria if the K "works". Sure, the Navy lost 2 planes for reasons related to equipment failures, but the K worked as she needed to, her propulsion didn't break down, and she didn't provide an embarrassing propaganda smorgasbord for the HATOstanis.
Regarding "personal attacks" its a sign of the frustration that some feel when they (we) must constantly bat away the utter BS diatribes that emanates from certain posters in this forum who simply insist on shit-canning everything that doesn't meet with their approval. The Russian surface fleet is low on the pecking order, and many programs have been impacted by lack of funds, lack of engines (due to Ukropi orc antics) or the generally poor state of shipyards that have been rundown for decades due to a lack of orders. Its not an ideal situation, and everyone knows it, but instead of cutting the Navy some slack, these posters puke the same BS time and time again.
If they stop there incessant bitchy whining, there just may be less "personal attacks". Appeasement is not a option, so its their choice.
He worked so well that his planes were sent to land base.
His task wasnt to drive around but to be safe base for aircraft operations and that task he failed totaly and his planes were sent to land base.
K wasnt safe for basic operations, he wasnt safe for LANDING ffs. What more embarrassing to one aircraft carrier could be???
Aircrafts were fine i didnt disputed that.
Comon guy lets admit the fact.
Yes state of Russian fleet is frustrating. I would like to see that they are finally capable to finish ship in 10 years if not in 5 as all others and that doesnt make we HATO funboy hater etc etc.
Probably the main reason for state of fleet isnt any of those that you have mentioned. (eg. problems were emerged even before Ukrainian crisis) Problem is more fundamental, lack of strategic interest on navy and that is most frustrating to me.
They have money they are producing a shitload of SAM and SSM but there are no funds for navy…..
And the navy is ruler of the world not SAM.
Guest- Guest
Vladimir79 wrote:KiloGolf wrote:
This is just bad management and corruption. Russian admirals don't want to admit that they need to either upgrade it meaningfully (for which they have to fight for $$$ and lobby hard) or dump it. They prefer to keep it sailing, in whatever horrific state, sporting proudly its BBQ smoker and cement AESA panels, and keep their jobs. The MIC in shipbuilding overcharges such medium-term contracts, making sure the ship will be back for repairs very soon. The Russian politicians get to keep their toy and attempt to show off the flag (although the recent Syrian expedition was a clvsterfvck). Everyone is a winner, apart from the Russian taxpayer and their Navy.
Apparently to point that out is Russophobic.
It was supposed to be a $2 billion modernisation that turned into a $400 million propulsion refurbishment.
Wait, they are still going to spend 2 billion in a whole right? 400mil is just propulsion? I mean it will get modernised beside propulsion too?
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
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Militarov wrote:Vladimir79 wrote:KiloGolf wrote:
This is just bad management and corruption. Russian admirals don't want to admit that they need to either upgrade it meaningfully (for which they have to fight for $$$ and lobby hard) or dump it. They prefer to keep it sailing, in whatever horrific state, sporting proudly its BBQ smoker and cement AESA panels, and keep their jobs. The MIC in shipbuilding overcharges such medium-term contracts, making sure the ship will be back for repairs very soon. The Russian politicians get to keep their toy and attempt to show off the flag (although the recent Syrian expedition was a clvsterfvck). Everyone is a winner, apart from the Russian taxpayer and their Navy.
Apparently to point that out is Russophobic.
It was supposed to be a $2 billion modernisation that turned into a $400 million propulsion refurbishment.
Wait, they are still going to spend 2 billion in a whole right? 400mil is just propulsion? I mean it will get modernised beside propulsion too?
400 for the propulsion as the project was scaled back. Still they're getting robbed.
hoom- Posts : 2352
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I make no judgement on the condition of that boiler.
Its a boiler -> has been subject to significant burning to boil water over decades, it probably shouldn't be in spic & span condition.
But it kinda looks externally charred in a way that maybe not expected from the design.
It has 8 of these boilers & from recollection 4 were replaced in the previous refit, presumably only the older 4 would be being replaced in the current upgrade.
Its a boiler -> has been subject to significant burning to boil water over decades, it probably shouldn't be in spic & span condition.
But it kinda looks externally charred in a way that maybe not expected from the design.
It has 8 of these boilers & from recollection 4 were replaced in the previous refit, presumably only the older 4 would be being replaced in the current upgrade.
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Can anyone explain how these things actually work? 
Singular_Transform- Posts : 1032
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- Post n°68
Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2
Singular_Transform Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:34 pm
hoom wrote:Can anyone explain how these things actually work?
Upper circle is the steam tank, lower feedwater, pipes between them is the boiler pipes ( the water boiling them due to the high temperature combustion products)
This is a partial cut away, the holes probably the air introduction .
The typical failure mode of this kind of equipment is the water tubes, the either leaking, or the exhaust product condensate onto them.
Hard to replace/repair them.
I think the main issue was with those, if there is any material defect with the Ukrianan pipes , then it will leak like hell.
Considering the design of these stuff it is next to impossible to get there and weld/replace them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_drum
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Thanks, that helps a lot 
Where are the burners though, in the middle?
Oh jebus if those were made with the same quality as those 404 mortars
Where are the burners though, in the middle?
Oh jebus if those were made with the same quality as those 404 mortars
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4758
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hoom wrote:Thanks, that helps a lot
Where are the burners though, in the middle?
Oh jebus if those were made with the same quality as those 404 mortars
The burners look to be on the upper RHS of the vessel, they look like a series of inverted triangles. The assembly above them looks like turbocharger driving the intakes for the combustion air & fuel supply.
Items #10 are the "steam mechanical nozzles" and the pic shows indication of stains around the flanges which I'd interpret as being due to leakage from oil contamination of the steam
(or condensate) lines.
FWIW it seems that in the refit all boilers and pumps will be replaced, and the steam turbines will be removed and refurbished. Judging by the photo, its about time... Ukropi workmanship at its finest...
Last edited by Big_Gazza on Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4758
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Russia’s sole aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov to enter 7-month trials after upgrade
Some clarifications in the article regarding the planned scope of Kuznetsov refit. Its clearly a lot more than "repairing the propulsion system" as some of our more flaky fellow-posters have spuriously claimed...
No specific mention of Poliment-Redut, however it seems that the Kashtans will be replaced by navalised Pantsyr.
original article
Some clarifications in the article regarding the planned scope of Kuznetsov refit. Its clearly a lot more than "repairing the propulsion system" as some of our more flaky fellow-posters have spuriously claimed...
No specific mention of Poliment-Redut, however it seems that the Kashtans will be replaced by navalised Pantsyr.
MOSCOW, July 25. /TASS/. Russia’s sole aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov will undergo 7-month trials after its repairs and upgrade, Zvyozdochka Shipyard CEO Sergei Marichev told TASS on Wednesday.
"In mid-April this year, a contract was signed for the repairs and some modernization works that will last two years and a half, after which seven-month trials are scheduled," the chief executive said.
‘In the first place, large-scale repairs of the warship’s main propulsion unit are planned along with the replacement of boilers, the repair and recovery of main geared-turbine assemblies, powerplant compartments, the equipment of turbine and diesel-driven generator units and refrigerating mechanisms. This is a very large and technologically complex volume of work," he stressed.
Zvyozdochka Shipyard specialists started repairs and upgrade works on the aircraft carrier even before the contract was signed, the chief executive said.
The Shipyard has already drawn up a schedule of all the works and started working out technological documentation. The operations of dismantling, unloading and dispatching equipment to defense machine-building enterprises are proceeding ahead of schedule, Marichev noted.
"Repair works under the contract have been launched in full since May within the framework of the documentation received," the chief executive said.
The basic volume of works will be carried out at the dockside of Zvyozdochka’s branch - the 35th Ship Repair Enterprise in Murmansk in north-west Russia, he added.
"At a certain moment, the ship will be delivered to the dock for dismantling the line of shafts and screws, carry out their flaw detection and repairs, repair the sea valves and make coating of the hull’s underwater part. This operation is planned in Roslyakovo, in the PD-50 floating dock," Marichev said.
Aircraft carrier’s repairs
The shipbuilders signed a contract with Russia’s Defense Ministry in April this year on the repair of the Project 11435 heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov.
As Russian Navy Deputy Commander-in-Chief Viktor Bursuk said earlier, repairs on Russia’s sole aircraft carrier started in May this year and the Navy expects to get the upgraded warship back in 2021.
During its upgrade, the aircraft carrier is set to get new air defense systems, in particular, the Pantsyr-M surface-to-air missile complex. Also, the aircraft carrier will be furnished with new powerplant, new boilers, pumps and flight control systems.
The Admiral Kuznetsov
The Project 11435 heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov is designed to gain superiority at sea and in the air in the areas of the fleet’s operation to ensure the fleet’s combat sustainability, deliver air strikes against enemy targets and support troops’ landing operations.
The warship entered service in 1990. It displaces 58,000 tonnes and has a length of 304.5 meters. The aircraft carrier has a full speed capacity of 200,000 horsepower and develops a speed of up to 30 knots. Apart from the air task force of 24-26 fighter jets and 12 helicopters, the Admiral Kuznetsov is armed with anti-ship and air defense missile systems.
The warship is equipped with a ski-jump and two aircraft elevators. It has a crew of 1,300 while the air group’s personnel numbers 660 men.
original article
George1- Posts : 18400
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The history of developing Russian Navy’s flagship and its combat capabilities in TASS special project
http://kuznetsov.tass.com/?_ga=2.196697131.625469590.1532436163-1492458617.1519912914
http://kuznetsov.tass.com/?_ga=2.196697131.625469590.1532436163-1492458617.1519912914
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4758
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George1 wrote:The history of developing Russian Navy’s flagship and its combat capabilities in TASS special project
http://kuznetsov.tass.com/?_ga=2.196697131.625469590.1532436163-1492458617.1519912914
Nice article
The grand old lady gets rough treatment by the NWO media presstitutes, but she will be an order of magnitude more effective when her make-over is completed.
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Well you'd obviously add same vehicle handling gear as on the Americas, presumably it carries only fairly small, chopper liftable stuff anyway?
Oh oh just thought of a new possibility: rip out the deck above the hangar & fill with VLS -> Arsenal Ship!
Well back on topic:
This is a pretty interesting pic
I think pilot approach was too high & is climbing out after waving off?
Oh oh just thought of a new possibility: rip out the deck above the hangar & fill with VLS -> Arsenal Ship!
Well back on topic:
This is a pretty interesting pic
I think pilot approach was too high & is climbing out after waving off?
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4758
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Now for something completely different...
That's a fair lift...
That's a fair lift...
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