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42 posters

    Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:55 am

    Have fun in NATO Finland!

    No buyer's regrets though dunno

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:54 am

    The US will be deciding where its bases will be located to offer the best coverage of Russian EM spectrum airspace... and they will likely encourage a wall to be built too.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:18 pm

    Russia is already planning to significantly beef up its Northern military district to better protect its Arctic holdings. Fibland joining wouldn't change much for the Russians., but overnight it gave the Finns first row seats to hell, a few minutes before the rest of NATO follows suit.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:28 pm

    US is based there for years now and the border fence is already long.

    Finland is neutral as Switzerland. Both are US bitches.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 06, 2023 3:03 am

    It is true that Finland was not really neutral, but this makes it irrefutable... so there is no question about any issues or talks between the countries.

    This hostile decision makes things easier for Russia.... simpler... and with Finland sanctioning most Russian stuff and people along with the other sheep means the border can probably be largely closed effectively.

    Moving enough nuclear weapons to obliterate the country shouldn't be too hard or expensive... and not moving ground forces there in large numbers which would not be cheap and lead to ongoing costs, it would be the most efficient action as any problems there you wont have enough troops for a conventional response...


    Last edited by GarryB on Fri May 05, 2023 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:54 am


    All the mentioned counter response on the part of Russia is a good First step. However, Russia cannot go on the defensive indefinitely, this only emboldens the US to expand and further encroach into Russia's backyard.

    Russia needs to launch a campaign to inflict tremendous and unrelenting PAIN toward Finland and the Baltic chihuahuas with the ultimate aim of dismembering and absorbing these NAZI inspired statelets back into Russia. The general population will be subjected to Russification and those who resist will have the option to move to the Barents sea.

    Since NATO NAZIS always boast about going closer to Russian borders, Russia in turn needs to set up an official policy to absorb NATO territory.

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    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:23 am

    Get Mexico into BRICS and offer them massive military aid and start doing the same to central America.
    Give them a taste of their own medicine.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:21 pm

    Nah, the countries of Europe are free to decide what organisations they join and Russia should not try to stop them.

    Membership of HATO just means Russia will now point nuclear weapons at Finland instead of just pointing them at HATO countries around Finland.

    If Finland wants to be Americas bitch and do as they are told by America then Russia has no reason to stop them... Russia is not their mother...

    If they ever decide that Russia is not their enemy Russia can be open to trade, but on terms favourable to Russia.

    Russia can be patient... they have money and time.

    I think Mexico is already interested in joining BRICS and it would be of great benefit to Mexico to join such a group... be interesting to see how the US reacts...

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sat Apr 08, 2023 4:24 am

    Nothing more than Telegram chatter. But this is the kind of shit that the US would do.

    Can anybody from Finland verify if this is true? "Immediately after Finland joined Nato, Finnair, the state airline, announced that they will discontinue all flights to the second largest city Tampere. Works are apparently underway to fully convert the Tampere civilian airport into a Nato air base and to upgrade its access roads, which have been quickly sealed off from civilians and are now under urgent reconstruction day and night. The mayor of Tampere wasn't notified in advance and only read about the cessation of flights in the newspaper. Enormous investments had been made to enlarge the airport capacity the past few years; now that they're finished (finnished?), it's a good time to tell the people that it's not their airport any more." wrote:

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    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:07 am

    Nothing more than Telegram chatter. But this is the kind of shit that the US would do.

    Another good reason for Russia to vigintuple its nuclear arsenal. Having the capability to destroy NATzO nations 100x would make any military buildup by NATzO irrelevant.

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    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:23 pm

    Finland joining up with the rest of the world's filth is the perfect excuse for Russia to remove the vermin from historical Russian land.

    I say neutron bomb the filthy traitors to the last. They are nothing but a menace to the continent of Europe. They were forgiven for helping the nazis, they were allowed to squat on Russian land, and in return they try desperately to undermine Russia and join an organization that makes the nazis look like saints.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:31 pm

    Why 100x ? Having enough to kill all nato once is already more than enough. It's not a game, there is no respawn.

    USSR was dumb to over arm themselves spending as much as 40% of their GDP on their military.

    Diversify a bit the vectors is ok but increasing their stocks by 10 or more is dumb and useless.
    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Sun Apr 09, 2023 12:11 am

    Isos wrote:Diversify a bit the vectors is ok but increasing their stocks by 10 or more is dumb and useless.

    And yet their current stocks of nuclear warheads are insufficient to destroy the US alone.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:55 am

    Yeah if by destroy you mean impact every cm2 of USA with a nuclear blast then no. But they have enough to wipe out all their cities and make life there impossible after.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Apr 09, 2023 12:06 pm

    Nothing more than Telegram chatter. But this is the kind of shit that the US would do.

    Sound plausible but I would think they would wait a little before starting this... probably start on the wall first.

    Does not mean it is not true, but I suspect it is someone having fun.

    Finland joining up with the rest of the world's filth is the perfect excuse for Russia to remove the vermin from historical Russian land.

    Correction... Finland is only joining HATO which means they are becoming like the 70th US state with no voting privileges... the 300 odd million Americans just got more real estate.

    What I am saying is that less than 10% of the worlds population does not equal the rest of the world, in fact Finland has just joined the minority west in their little crusade against Russia and probably now China too.

    Why 100x ? Having enough to kill all nato once is already more than enough. It's not a game, there is no respawn.

    100x is an exaggeration, but they certainly need to increase the number of tactical nuclear weapons they have by a large margin.

    Now they are putting breeder reactors into service enriching to weapons grade material would be quicker and easier than ever before.
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    Post  Arrow Sun Apr 09, 2023 12:55 pm

    ah if by destroy you mean impact every cm2 of USA with a nuclear blast then no. But they have enough to wipe out all their cities and make life there impossible after. wrote:

    Not about 1,500 strategic warheads won't even destroy half the cities in the US. Some of the warheads have 100kt, which are not able to destroy even one larger city. Nuclear charges are not as effective as some people thin.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:12 pm

    Now the INF treaty is gone they can make medium range and intermediate range nukes which can be pointed at Japan and Europe and Canada, so all Strategic missiles can be saved for use against the US.

    They have about 5,000 tactical nukes don't they?

    With the US suspending open skies and using new Start visits to check defences and basically spy for Kiev for new targeting options then Russia is pretty free to do as it pleases, but even if they went back into negotiations right now the US will demand China is included with Russian warheads and that Poseidon and thunderbird and other programmes be included and limited, but they were developed to counter American controlled ABM systems being built around the place so Putin wont give those up without the US giving up ABM and I don't see them doing that despite it probably not working.

    Scramjet technology means super long range cruise missiles become actually smaller and faster and more interesting than ballistic rockets... a 10 ton cruise missile with 8 tons of "fuel" that scoops its oxidiser in flight would have the rocket performance of a missile with 40 tons of fuel and oxidiser... 8 tons of fuel and 32 tons of oxidiser, which is a SLBM sized missile... Being scramjet powered it will be more like a bomber able to change direction and release warheads... in fact they could claim it was a drone because it could fly back to base after its attack and then it would not count as a strategic weapon like HALE and MALE UCAVs don't count at the moment despite being potential nuclear bombers too.
    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Sun Apr 09, 2023 5:31 pm

    Not about 1,500 strategic warheads won't even destroy half the cities in the US. Some of the warheads have 100kt, which are not able to destroy even one larger city. Nuclear charges are not as effective as some people thin.

    Russia will need ICBMs and Hypersonic tactical nukes with no less than 1 megaton warheads, for ICBMs, there should be at least 20 re entry vehicles with 1 megaton warhead for each ICBM unit, for hypersonic missiles, these are smaller so 1 megaton warheads should be a good stop gap, eventually Russia will need to put more research to develop higher yield nukes. Permanent NATO extinction should be the main goal of the new WMD program.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:04 am

    You are not listening... you need the big warheads for hard targets.... for flattening cities and killing people the smaller warheads make more sense.

    Three 150Kt warheads spread in a circle around a large flat city would actually do more damage than on 1Mt bomb in the middle despite three 150Kt warheads having less than half the power of one 1Mt warhead.

    Think of your enemies lined up in a single line against a wall in front of you... the difference between a 1Mt and three 150Kt is like the difference between using a 50 cal HMG round and using 5.45mm rifle ammo.

    With the targets lined in front of you your bullet goes straight so you can only shoot one person at a time... a single 50 cal round will kill one enemy, while three assault rifle rounds could kill three.

    Increasing the calibre of round makes no difference when using solid shot... a 120mm tank round (APFSDS) will just kill one or possibly two people, while 50 assault rifle can kill rather more.

    It is the whole reason cluster bombs are used against enemy troops in the field... it is just more effective even if it is random spreading of explosives.

    Obviously if the enemy is in a tank or in a concrete bunker then the heavy round makes sense but most people in the west don't have bunkers to go to... at best they might head for basements or subways... I would think Americans in Tornado Alley would have a good survival rate with their basements and protected structures, but the rest are likely in trouble.

    BTW I do understand that if you allow the larger calibre rounds to have explosive warheads my example does not work.

    Using smaller nuke warheads means you can pack more in and spread the damage.... that is why hand grenades are not 10kgs each.

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:54 am

    @Garry
    Sound plausible but I would think they would wait a little before starting this... probably start on the wall first.

    Does not mean it is not true, but I suspect it is someone having fun.

    Russia did say it would take kinetic action if US/Nato bases were put in Finland. Or something to that effect. But this looks like yet another thing where Russia doesn't expect them to be stupid and reckless enough to do. Right now Russia does not think the US will put bases in Finland. But they are probably wrong.

    What is Russia supposed to do ? Nuke them ? That probably isnt going to happen. But if not then nukes and strategic weapons have questionable value. What are they deterring? What red lines don't get crossed anymore?

    We are entering the post nuclear age. Everyone has nukes. But the US crosses other nuclear powers red lines anyway.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:15 am

    I would expect officially US bases would be unpopular, but the CIA likely already has listening stations there anyway.

    Over time they will be bullied and cajoled into letting the US have their way... the US will tell them they need nukes in Finland to counter the nukes Russia is sending to Belarus... plus nukes will make them safer... no way Russia would invade a country with nukes... ignoring the fact that Israel would attack Iran if they thought Iran had nukes... why would Russia not want to defend itself too?

    What is Russia supposed to do ? Nuke them ? That probably isnt going to happen. But if not then nukes and strategic weapons have questionable value. What are they deterring? What red lines don't get crossed anymore?

    I suspect Russia will simply point out to Finland that when Finland was neutral Russia never had any reason to point nuclear weapons at their country but now they are part of a hostile military force called HATO Russia will be pointing dozens of nukes at them and they will be on a hair trigger to make sure they get launched before they get destroyed in a potential American preemptive attack on Russia... still feel safer?

    Increasing spending and replacing all your equipment with HATO standard stuff and of course that wall... hope you guys have lots of money squirrelled away for a rainy day...


    We are entering the post nuclear age. Everyone has nukes. But the US crosses other nuclear powers red lines anyway.

    In doing so they have undermined their own economic stability and advantage.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:53 am

    What was I saying before....

    Finland and Sweden “forgot to ask their people” about joining the US-led bloc, Laszlo Kover has said

    No referendums in either country of course because of the fear the people might say no.

    And more importantly:

    Less than two weeks after Hungary voted to accept Finland into NATO, the Finnish and Swedish governments joined the European Commission’s legal case against Hungary’s Child Protection Law. The law, which forbids depictions of homosexuality or gender reassignment in media content aimed at under-18s, has been criticized by other EU members as anti-LGBT.

    Can Turkey expect better treatment?

    Source: https://www.rt.com/news/574496-hungary-finland-sweden-nato/

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Fri May 05, 2023 12:21 am

    Backman wrote:
    @Garry
    Sound plausible but I would think they would wait a little before starting this... probably start on the wall first.

    Does not mean it is not true, but I suspect it is someone having fun.

    Russia did say it would take kinetic action if US/Nato bases were put in Finland. Or something to that effect. But this looks like yet another thing where Russia doesn't expect them to be stupid and reckless enough to do. Right now Russia does not think the US will put bases in Finland. But they are probably wrong.

    What is Russia supposed to do ? Nuke them ? That probably isnt going to happen. But if not then nukes and strategic weapons have questionable value. What are they deterring? What red lines don't get crossed anymore?

    We are entering the post nuclear age. Everyone has nukes. But the US crosses other nuclear powers red lines anyway.
    Well that was quick. US bases in Finland it is. Full blown occupation style. Like Japan 

    ⚡The United States agreed to deploy a military base in Finland - Satakunnan Kansa newspaper

    “The American troops [will] be subject to their own legislation, subject to Finnish rules. Most of this regulation comes from NATO,” said Mikael Antell, deputy head of the political department of the country’s Foreign Ministry.

    The American troops have been issued a complete carte blanche: the US Armed Forces will be able to deploy troops and equipment. Naval and aviation forces will not be limited in any way on the territory of Finland.

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Fri May 05, 2023 12:26 am

    I could see a general mobilization in the cards for Russia. Is there any grey areas on the border with Finland ? If so , I could see Russia carving out a buffer of some sort. At the expense of Finland

    Would have been a **** of a lot easier to be building submarine pens in Cuba 10 years ago.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri May 05, 2023 5:19 am

    This is good.... the US is being the US...

    Besides the people of Finland don't seem to be upset about all the anti Russian BS coming from their elected officials and from the west so they either agree or don't give a shit.

    This is a good opportunity for Russia to cut most practical ties with the country, they have joined HATO so no point talking to them... talk to the US, but no point talking to them either because they don't listen and they lie.

    Like I have been saying, just close the border and move lots of nuclear armed missiles to point at those US bases and of course also Finnish bases now they are HATO bases too and of course some nukes for the population centres to blunt any attack that might come from that direction suddenly.

    Then it is all sorted.

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