Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

I feel this is just going in circles.
Russias military budget is what ~65 billion us dollars give or take. What could Nato collected defence budget be, ~1 trillion?

Russia wouldnt stand a chance against Nato unless they want to start launching nukes.

And like I stated before, no one cares about the Russian nukes in Sweden or Finland because they know they will never be used.

Really? Why not?

The US MIC spent two decades in the "revolution of military affairs" where the US was going to only fight goat herders and Iranian motor boats in the Persian Gulf. And it shows in their weapons development.

lancelot wrote:

walle83 wrote:

Arrow wrote:NATO is not able to win the arms race with Russia.

Really? Why not?

It is not possible in one decade. Maybe two. And that is assuming Russia would remain stationary.

Let us say the US over the next decade develops new tanks, their own hypersonics, and increases deployments of ABM.

So how are you going to intercept Poseidon? Or Burevestnik once it comes out?

The US might try for a paradigm shift and move the conflict to space or use AI to develop some new kind of weapon.
Problem is their opponents have considerable capabilities in those fields as well.

The US MIC spent two decades in the "revolution of military affairs" where the US was going to only fight goat herders and Iranian motor boats in the Persian Gulf. And it shows in their weapons development.

Also i think you forgetting that Russia had 10-15 years with stagnation in its military in the 90s and 00s.

The Finnish and Swedish army combined are a fraction of the strength of the Ukrainian army that's currently being demolished.
They have zero prospects of expanding their militaries either, not with their economies imploding.
My hohol in bandera you're going to die.

As for tanks that "near future" would have to include the T-14 which is currently in production and will likely be hitting combat units this year. So no the US is quite far behind and only started their own program like 3 years ago, while still not having decided on a design yet.

TMA1 wrote:This war has increased the hubris and delusion of us westerners. Not good.  Our kind of pride can only be humbled by a great fall. Walle83 you sound like the stereotypical fanboy on a yt comment section. Yikes.

lyle6 wrote:The Finnish and Swedish army combined are a fraction of the strength of the Ukrainian army that's currently being demolished.
They have zero prospects of expanding their militaries either, not with their economies imploding.
My hohol in bandera you're going to die.

walle83 wrote:

lyle6 wrote:The Finnish and Swedish army combined are a fraction of the strength of the Ukrainian army that's currently being demolished.
They have zero prospects of expanding their militaries either, not with their economies imploding.
My hohol in bandera you're going to die.

Eh have you seen the finish army?
And Sweden, yes a smaller army but a better air force and a with an industry that can supply many Nato countries with modern high tech arms.
And I dont know what you are talking about when it comes to economies. Sweden has just announced that it will raise it defence budget with almost 1% of BNP in a few years.

i.e. the Kurds were thrown under the bus.

The Swedish historical neutrality racket must definitely end once and for all. Save for extremely short periods (namely during PM Olof Palme's government in 1982 -1986) it has never been so!

The Nato countries have lost a lot of military industrial competencies.

Sweden and Finland are in Nato. It is a done deal. (it would have happened even without the war)

Erdogan got completely duped, the moron. It is highly unlikely that ONE warm body will be heading to Turkey to face charges.

Now he will kick up a fuss after the fact.

Maybe he will threaten to leave Nato if Sweden and Finland don't send the bodies. Maybe that's what is at play here. That would be a fun scandal to watch.

lancelot wrote:

walle83 wrote:Eh have you seen the finish army?
And Sweden, yes a smaller army but a better air force and a with an industry that can supply many Nato countries with modern high tech arms.
And I dont know what you are talking about when it comes to economies. Sweden has just announced that it will raise it defence budget with almost 1% of BNP in a few years.

I do not know in which decade you are. But the modern Swedish and Finnish army are not the same thing they were in the 1980s.

Sweden has 71 single engine aircraft which are not even medium weight. Each one uses a single engine of the dual-engine F/A-18 which was the competitor of the single engine F-16. It is basically like a single engine of a MiG-29. This means the amount of payload it can carry is limited. Before the war started, Ukraine had 51 MiG-29, 12 Su-24, 17 Su-25, and 32 Su-27 dual engine heavy fighters. Ukraine's air force was way larger than the one Sweden has. Since then Ukraine were likely furnished with even more Warsaw Pact MiG-29 and Su-25. Some might even have had Israeli electronics upgrades. And these are all late Cold War era types. Gripen is a post Cold War era type which has more advanced electronics as a result, but the aircraft as a combination of airframe and engine itself is way less powerful, the radar tech is more advanced but the radar is smaller than the one in a Cold War Su-27 so the overall air to air performance is worse. And the weapons package, well, Ukraine could manufacture the R-27 air to air missile at Artem. Which air to air missile does your precious Swedish military industry manufacture today? I mean as a whole package. Ukraine had integrated production for the thing. They made every single component. Sweden is supposedly part of MBDA but I don't even know if they even make a single bolt or nut for the Meteor. AFAIK the engine of the Meteor is German, and the sensor and electronics aren't Swedish either. So other than Sweden having programmed basically what amounts to a hardware driver for the Gripen so it can launch the Meteor, and buying the thing, I do not know what they are supposed to have done.

Sweden is decent at airframe design, making control avionics for the aircraft, and that is it. Everything else is basically imported. So they basically design the airframe, write the software packages, buy everything else off the shelf, integrate and test it.

Werewolf wrote:

walle83 wrote:

lyle6 wrote:The Finnish and Swedish army combined are a fraction of the strength of the Ukrainian army that's currently being demolished.
They have zero prospects of expanding their militaries either, not with their economies imploding.
My hohol in bandera you're going to die.

Eh have you seen the finish army?
And Sweden, yes a smaller army but a better air force and a with an industry that can supply many Nato countries with modern high tech arms.
And I dont know what you are talking about when it comes to economies. Sweden has just announced that it will raise it defence budget with almost 1% of BNP in a few years.

Sweden and Finnland are below Germany's military capabilities which has almost twice the size of Swedens Army. What are you talking about?

Sweden is a Chihuaha. Sweden is Latvia with a few guns, tanks and planes.

Germany in its current shameful state could crush Sweden and Germany is a midget and has no weight in military matters whatsoever.

You have reduced your rhetoric down to a level of Youtube Comment Section.

If you make claims they should be at least from this universe and not some alternative multiverse of copeness.