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    Other elite units of Russian Army (mountain, reconnaissance etc.)

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    Post  Regular 30/06/13, 04:01 am

    Too much western equipment for my taste, let's put this in that way. They should be banned by MOD to buy them at all. Especially when Russian companies make superior products. EOTech is completely shit sight especially mounted on AK-74, instead they should stick to Russian collimators and support local manufacturers, not to mention sad state that Russian optic industry went through. Can anyone explain me what's wrong with numerous indigenous helmets Russia already has, digital camo? Why should they make logistical nightmare instead of utilising what is already there. Really is there any logic in using those fancy sights in mountains? It won't make Your AK-74 a sniper rifle and snow and freezing temperatures will kill batteries in no time.

    34 mountain brigade.
    No bullshit imported equipment, just Chechen war experience under their belts.



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    Post  Zivo 30/06/13, 04:55 am

    A lot of their AKs have high-end Russian aftermarket parts. I've seen a few Spetsnaz guys whose furniture is worth more than the rifles themselves.

    Regarding digital camo, it is effective. I've got a Russian made SURPAT uniform from SRVV that I use on the range  and it's better built than any uniform I can find in the States. That says a lot about Russian manufacturing. None of these guys should have trouble finding good Russian made equipment.
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    Post  Cyberspec 30/06/13, 03:39 pm

    Regular wrote:
    34 mountain brigade.
    No bullshit imported equipment, just Chechen war experience under their belts.

    I'm aware of the 34th Mountain Brigade and it seems to be a fine unit, but they have different role compared to the SSO. Meaning the equipment will vary to a degree.
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    Post  SWAT Pointman 12/07/13, 01:08 am

    Regular wrote:Too much western equipment for my taste, let's put this in that way. They should be banned by MOD to buy them at all. Especially when Russian companies make superior products. EOTech is completely shit sight especially mounted on AK-74, instead they should stick to Russian collimators and support local manufacturers, not to mention sad state that Russian optic industry went through. Can anyone explain me what's wrong with numerous indigenous helmets Russia already has, digital camo? Why should they make logistical nightmare instead of utilising what is already there. Really is there any logic in using those fancy sights in mountains? It won't make Your AK-74 a sniper rifle and snow and freezing temperatures will kill batteries in no time.

    34 mountain brigade.
    No bullshit imported equipment, just Chechen war experience under their belts.



    I wonder why they're using western equipment when they're very capable of making equipment that is equal to or superior to western equipment? I'm going to guess the Russian companies maybe weren't as capable as supplying the equipment they needed so they turned to buying western designs? The EO Tech is regarded as a very good sight. It is more difficult to shoot accurately with though on an AK-74 as it's mounted very high. The EO Tech was intended more for rifles with a high plane of sight like the M4. I suppose a cheek riser on the AK-74 largely solves this problem though.
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    Post  GarryB 12/07/13, 07:04 am

    I'm going to guess the Russian companies maybe weren't as capable as supplying the equipment they needed so they turned to buying western designs?

    Or the Russian weapon sight makers didn't want to get sued or lose access to western markets by directly copying the design and need some time to come out with their own "versions" of the sights.

    The only EO tech sights I have seen in shops here are very expensive.
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    Post  George1 13/12/14, 04:48 am

    Does anyone have info on specific mountain warfare units of Russian army and VDV?
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    Post  Cyberspec 14/12/14, 03:32 am

    George1 wrote:Does anyone have info on specific mountain warfare units of Russian army and VDV?

    The 34th Motorised (Mountain) Brigade




    "two tower" had a feature on them back in 2011

    http://twower.livejournal.com/513546.html

    http://twower.livejournal.com/510949.html

    http://twower.livejournal.com/511859.html

    Next year the 55th Brigade is being established which will be a sister unit of the 34th Brigade.

    There's also a mountain warfare training center in the Caucasus where various units (usually scout type units) undertake mountain warfare courses
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    Post  George1 25/01/16, 03:51 pm

    Special distinctions for mountain professionals established in the Russian army

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2610892&usg=ALkJrhh087nwfiIb2ig_mwQUUBiT3jOUHg
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    Post  franco 23/09/16, 11:25 am

    Newly formed 55th Mountain Brigade participating in the SCO Peace Mission 2016 in Kyrgyzstan. Photos and videos;

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2142364.html
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    Post  George1 19/10/17, 03:46 am

    Voennaa Razvedka (Razvedchiki Scouts)

    Some info on these units: "Military intelligence" personnel/units within larger formations in ground troops, airborne troops and marines. Intelligence battalion in the division, reconnaissance company in the brigade, a reconnaissance platoon in the regiment. The level of training is the same as Spetsnaz GRU but not controlled by the GRU.

    Other elite units of Russian Army (mountain, reconnaissance etc.) 22519620_910068909146799_729348057672167342_n

    Other elite units of Russian Army (mountain, reconnaissance etc.) 22448657_910069785813378_7270881057749874070_n

    Mascot: bat.
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    Reconnaissance Large units and military Units

    The Reconnaissance Formations and military Units are often put into the Special Forces of the Land Force and designed to perform a wide range of tasks in order to provide commanders, staffs and headquarters with information about the enemy, terrain and weather condition for making the most rational decisions on operation (battle) and preventing surprises of the enemy’s actions.

    In the interests of the Land Force reconnaissance is carried out by organic reconnaissance subunits of combined-arms formations (motorised rifle and tank brigades), formations and units of special purpose, radio and electronic reconnaissance of army and military district sets, as well as reconnaissance units and subdivisions of the Arms and Special Forces of the Land Force.

    In preparation and during conducting of combined-arms operations (combat actions) they perform the following tasks:

    • disclosure of the enemy’s intention, its immediate preparations for aggression, and its surprise attack prevention;
    • identifying the troops (forces) of the enemy and its control system’s combat structure, position, grouping, status and capabilities;
    • disclosure of the objects (targets) for defeating and determination of their location (coordinates);
    • disclosure of the elements of the war theatre’s operational equipment, the terrains’ engineering equipment and the system of barriers;
    • determination of the degree of terrain’s passability, the state of communications, the nature of water barriers, the boundaries and the dimensions of areas of destruction, fires and floods, contamination areas, possible ways of overcoming them and turning movement around them;
    • identifying the enemy’s new weapons and methods of warfare, as well as its activities to ensure full operation (battle);
    • determination of the morale of the enemy’s troops and the local population, the economic status of the operation’s area, etc.

    Reconnaissance Formations and Units extract the necessary information about the enemy by the following main ways:

    • surveillance (tracking) and eavesdropping;
    • photographing (ground or air);
    • interception, technical analysis of radiation of electronic means and determination of objects’ coordinates;
    • conducting searches, raids, ambushes, reconnaissance in force;
    • survey of local residents, interrogation of prisoners and defectors;
    • studying the enemy’s documents, equipment and weapons captured.

    Further improvement of capabilities of the Reconnaissance Formations and Units is made by improving their organizational structure, equipping them with highly technical means of reconnaissance, including based on new physical principles, tactical systems of reconnaissance based on unmanned aerial vehicles, as well as with automation of data collection, processing of reconnaissance data and informing commanders and staffs about them in real time.

    http://eng.mil.ru/en/structure/forces/ground/structure/reconnaissance.htm
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    Post  marcellogo 16/11/21, 04:31 am

    I have been on this forum by years seen a lot of different threads about the wide array of different specialities and troops of the Russian Armed forces  and their armaments.

    Still I have seen nothing about reconnaissance units.

    So, may I ask if it exist in Russia anything that can be considered as a proper Cavarly corp, with its own traditions, school and insignas and not instead just some specially tasked units in the framework of other types of troops?
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    Post  franco 16/11/21, 05:14 am

    marcellogo wrote:I have been on this forum by years seen a lot of different threads about the wide array of different specialities and troops of the Russian Armed forces  and their armaments.

    Still I have seen nothing about reconnaissance units.

    So, may I ask if it exist in Russia anything that can be considered as a proper Cavarly corp, with its own traditions, school and insignas and not instead just some specially tasked units in the framework of other types of troops?

    They are called Intelligence troops and belong to GRU or Main Intelligence Directorate. Some of them are designated special purpose or most commonly known as Spetsnaz but all brigades and divisions also have battalions. In addition, there are 3 separate Recon brigades plus the Radio Technical Special Purpose brigades, battalions etc which in the West would be called Elint or Sigint units.

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    Post  ALAMO 16/11/21, 12:07 pm

    Some horsemen units exist in mountain troops as well.
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    Post  GarryB 16/11/21, 02:24 pm

    I remember in the 1980s we in the general public had no idea about their new AS and VSS weapons used by recon troops... basically when they had 7.62x39mm calibre assault rifles, to be sneaky and quiet at least to start with you might have a mag or two of subsonic 193 grain bullets with reduced powder charges which when used with a suppressor were rather quiet and did not reveal shots were being fired over a great distance like standard rounds did. You could take down enemy forces like guards or dogs and then eventually when everything kicked off you could put a mag with supersonic 122 grain bullets to get better range and performance.

    Obviously with the adoption of the 5.45mm calibre the subsonic rounds were 80 grains and not really very good in terms of performance, so they developed a specialist recon and special forces calibre where they took the 7.62 x 39mm and made it even better by making it a 9mm calibre round. The muzzle velocity was still subsonic but the rounds were over 250 grain which made them very very effective... when the limit is having to be subsonic to keep the noise down you increase performance of the bullet by making it heavier which improves terminal performance and effective range.

    The AS is a very interesting weapon that gets very little coverage in the west but is widely used by Russian Army recon forces as well as FSB and MVD.

    Interestingly it has a scope mount but no mounts for grenade launchers or bayonets...

    Your question was about Army recon forces and I think George might have jumped the gun moving this thread to the VDV section...
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    Post  marcellogo 16/11/21, 10:39 pm

    franco wrote:
    marcellogo wrote:I have been on this forum by years seen a lot of different threads about the wide array of different specialities and troops of the Russian Armed forces  and their armaments.

    Still I have seen nothing about reconnaissance units.

    So, may I ask if it exist in Russia anything that can be considered as a proper Cavarly corp, with its own traditions, school and insignas and not instead just some specially tasked units in the framework of other types of troops?

    They are called Intelligence troops and belong to GRU or Main Intelligence Directorate. Some of them are designated special purpose or most commonly known as Spetsnaz but all brigades and divisions also have battalions. In addition, there are 3 separate Recon brigades plus the Radio Technical Special Purpose brigades, battalions etc which in the West would be called Elint or Sigint units.  

    Thank for the reply but I dare to say that it make things more complicated to me to understand than before.
    It's just that the way of thinking and cathegorize things is somewhat alien to me.
    For what I know the GRU is not even part of the Army but depend directly from the Main Command.
    So, must I assume that even the regular, organic reconnaissance unit of a standard level formation like a brigate or a division it's made of personnel that didn't belong to the Army itself?

    ALAMO wrote:Some horsemen units exist in mountain troops as well.
    Not clear also: such horses are pack animals i.e. the equivalent of a logistic vehicle (our army used mules for the same role), a mean of individual transportation i.e. a BTR or they can use them during combat i.e. a BMP pardon BMK?
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    Post  franco 16/11/21, 11:04 pm

    Thank for the reply but I dare to say that it make things more complicated to me to understand than before.
    It's just that the way of thinking and cathegorize things is somewhat alien to me.
    For what I know the GRU is not even part of the Army but depend directly from the Main Command.
    So, must I assume that even the regular, organic reconnaissance unit of a standard level formation like a brigate or a division it's made of personnel that didn't belong to the Army itself?


    1. everything is considered Army that is not Navy Smile
    2. what the West calls the Army in Russia would be the Ground Forces
    3. Intelligence units belong to GRU but are seconded (attached) to the Ground Forces units
    4. the same applies to Logistic and Maintenance units. They belong to the Rear Services but are attached to the Ground Forces units (and other branches or services)
    5. Clear as mud, right! No
    6. The same applies to the Navy, Ground and Air Forces can be attached to Fleet control along with the attached Rear Services.


    Not clear also: such horses are pack animals i.e. the equivalent of a logistic vehicle (our army used mules for the same role), a mean of individual transportation i.e. a BTR or they can use them during combat i.e. a BMP pardon BMK?

    Pack animals with standard load being 250 kg spread over 4 horses.
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    Post  Hole 17/11/21, 01:56 am

    This means one american needs 4 horses. Laughing

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    Post  marcellogo 17/11/21, 05:04 am

    franco wrote:Thank for the reply but I dare to say that it make things more complicated to me to understand than before.
    It's just that the way of thinking and cathegorize things is somewhat alien to me.
    For what I know the GRU is not even part of the Army but depend directly from the Main Command.
    So, must I assume that even the regular, organic reconnaissance unit of a standard level formation like a brigate or a division it's made of personnel that didn't belong to the Army itself?


    1. everything is considered Army that is not Navy Smile
    2. what the West calls the Army in Russia would be the Ground Forces
    3. Intelligence units belong to GRU but are seconded (attached) to the Ground Forces units
    4. the same applies to Logistic and Maintenance units. They belong to the Rear Services but are attached to the Ground Forces units (and other branches or services)
    5. Clear as mud, right! No
    6. The same applies to the Navy, Ground and Air Forces can be attached to Fleet control along with the attached Rear Services.


    Not clear also: such horses are pack animals i.e. the equivalent of a logistic vehicle (our army used mules for the same role), a mean of individual transportation i.e. a BTR or they can use them during combat i.e. a BMP pardon BMK?

    Pack animals with standard load being 250 kg spread over 4 horses.

    1. Clear, concise and efficace.
    2. Ok, that's is about precise terminology.
    3. Here is the thing that's is really difficult to grasp for a western armed force oriented mindset.
    The sheer immensity of tasks assigned to the GRU that encompasses roles here assigned to standard armed formations (cavalry), combat support (radio communications troops), Special Forces, Main Staff units and Intelligence services. both unshaven than confused scratch
    4. Not just rear services but it seems me that the concept of attached unit also encompasses the Aviation for the Army (is it permanently attached to a ground unit?) but the Frontal Aviation (that act autonomously but it's permanently subordinate to the Ground Force or Fleet Commander  affraid  affraid  affraid  affraid) but are both in their TOTALITY under the Aereospace forces. The VDV instead, no this is something I didn't even dare to ask : how it can possibly relate to all those others organizations... drunken
    5. No, the general concept of attached units is quite clear. It would only need to ask other hundreds of other questions to really understand how the things works in practise.
    6. Still there are aviations units that are part of the fleet itself and not of Aereospace forces, a sort of "privilege" or is it a consequence of point 1?

    Ok, pack animals have nothing to do with cavalry. And cavalry as a corp or speciality (as infantry, artillery, sappers) doesn't exist in the russian army No  No  No  No . Pardon, in the Ground Forces, point 2.
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    Post  franco 17/11/21, 06:37 am

    - Air Force no longer has a Frontal Aviation as such. The Army Aviation units are the helicopter units. They are assigned to Ground Forces support as needed. The Air Force prime attachment with Ground Forces is in the Military Districts.
    - Airborne units are two types, Air Assault and Parachute. The two Parachute divisions (98th and 106th) remain the Strategic reserve of the General Staff while the Air Assault units are attached to support the Military District they are in.
    - There is a Naval Aviation that belongs to the Navy and there are also Aerospace Forces attached to Naval Command. Same as the Navy also has the Naval Infantry and Coastal troops plus Ground Forces are attached to Naval Commands (for the most part these Ground Forces are called Army Corps)
    - The Russian military is a large force with many moving parts Arrow
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    Post  marcellogo 17/11/21, 04:49 pm

    franco wrote:- Air Force no longer has a Frontal Aviation as such. The Army Aviation units are the helicopter units. They are assigned to Ground Forces support as needed. The Air Force prime attachment with Ground Forces is in the Military Districts.
    - Airborne units are two types, Air Assault and Parachute. The two Parachute divisions (98th and 106th) remain the Strategic reserve of the General Staff while the Air Assault units are attached to support the Military District they are in.
    - There is a Naval Aviation that belongs to the Navy and there are also Aerospace Forces attached to Naval Command. Same as the Navy also has the Naval Infantry and Coastal troops plus Ground Forces are attached to Naval Commands (for the most part these Ground Forces are called Army Corps)
    - The Russian military is a large force with many moving parts Arrow

    Thank for the ulterior clarification, it's perfectly clear and is possible also to understand the obvious advantages of a similar organization but it still absolutely hard to fathom for  those coming from a completely diffferent (military) mindset.
    Also in our armed forces we have some units coming from an armed service attached to another but they are EXTREME exceptions like to say Tuscania battaillon, that are Carabinieri but are in the FOLGORE paratroopers brigade but this is because ther service have also the functions of MP.
    In such a case there the solution is to build up a completely new command detached by normal order of battle and directly depending from the main command as no service would accept to submit their own units to another's one, even in a temporary fashion, let's imagine permanently.

    And obviously, for us italians there is the fact that Cavalry and Alpini are about one half of our Army(and if he add the Paratroopers they are actually MORE than such half) so to see them as just a footnote thread in the VDV section is really hard to bear. cry
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    Post  GarryB 18/11/21, 06:18 am

    On the positive side this thread starts with complaints that the VDV are using a lot of western kit, but I would say their kit would now be mostly if not all Russian with the adoption of Ratnik II by now that all their gear will be Russian.

    I seem to remember for a bit they had some exotic western sniper rifles too but suspect they have or will about to be replaced with Russian equivalents soon if not already.
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    Post  George1 14/12/21, 12:21 am

    In the foothills of the Western Sayan, servicemen of the mountain divisions of the Central Military District began practical preparations for the Sayan March competition.

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