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    Indo-China dispute

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:14 am

    Hard to say. On one hand India has good potential for weapons sales, China much less. On the other China has HUGE potential for energy and resource sales as well as food exports.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:04 am

    Russia shouldn't choose... that is what the US wants... Russia should take active steps to ensure there is no conflict between India and China and kick away all the British and Americans whispering in ears... have you heard the term Chinese whispers... totally ironic in this case...

    A war with China would devastate India and a war with India would be terrible for China too.

    Russia would not benefit either.

    The US and the west would love it... divide and conquer... damage the IC in BRICS... when the IC is a quarter of the worlds population...

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:38 am



    I doubt that these small mountainous regions, have had a firm geographical attachment to either China or India or anyone else. So the dispute can not be resolved by reference to any historical map. Nor have these regions been subject to recent war, to settle the border. It is all a grey area.

    I suppose China wants to open route to Pakistan and ME region by land route. And India is anxious of growing power of Pakistan. America tried to stop Iran pipeline to India, through Pakistan. And I think Pakistan agreed, for a while. Pakistan also not allow access by India to Afghanistan, for trade. India then using Iranian port for access to central Asia.

    I think all sides can agree to allow access for trade. Leaving aside shipments of military hardware. This will allow for industrial and economic development of all regional countries. While not upsetting the immediate balance of power.

    So everybody goes to any place they want. Using roads and rail and planes. Crossing borders. No hindrance. As long as it is civilian goods. Absolutely no problems. For transit of military goods, if there are disputes, then use international waters.....
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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:09 pm

    GarryB wrote:Russia shouldn't choose... that is what the US wants... Russia should take active steps to ensure there is no conflict between India and China and kick away all the British and Americans whispering in ears... have you heard the term Chinese whispers... totally ironic in this case...

    A war with China would devastate India and a war with India would be terrible for China too.

    Russia would not benefit either.

    The US and the west would love it... divide and conquer... damage the IC in BRICS... when the IC is a quarter of the worlds population...

    I think only Putin has the influence and credibility to deal with this. He has very close relationships with both Modi and Xi, however Modi is a complete idiot and had caused massive damage to the Indian economy with a series of major missteps. A war or crisis with China would distract from his general lack of competence.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:53 am

    Agree, many politicians only care about themselves personally... most western politicians fall in that category... Luka too... Putin stands out by being not one of those people and if the leadership of India and China want what is best for their countries they will not rush to conflict.

    Conflict often becomes the easiest choice but it gets out of hand so easily and take you to places you never wanted to be.

    It is like a rollercoaster... you choose to by a ticket and you climb on board and sit in the seat and get strapped in...but once it starts rolling you have no control till it stops... even when you can see the track ahead is broken and you are going to come off and all die.
    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:58 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Cooperation with China is of strategic importance, India is just an annoying customer that complains too mutch and in addition to that has a tendency to lean west, hardly a useful ally.
    That's the correct assessment. Kremlin should ideally help China in wiping out this failed state of India. It's existence or lack of it makes no difference.

    China is a neighbor, a major customer of Russian raw materials and bilateral trade between Russia and China is worth hundreds of billions of dollars.

    India OTOH with a massive population of 1.3 billion puts huge pressure on scarce natural resources the world over. Hindus have a reputation of entering Russia and Western countries illegally and then settling down there forever.

    nomadski wrote:I suppose China wants to open route to Pakistan and ME region by land route. And India is anxious of growing power of Pakistan. America tried to stop Iran pipeline to India, through Pakistan. And I think Pakistan agreed, for a while. Pakistan also not allow access by India to Afghanistan, for trade. India then using Iranian port for access to central Asia.
    In this ongoing dispute Iran should side with the China-Pakistan alliance.

    Iran has a lot to gain from this alliance. India is a failed state with a dubious history.

    mnztr wrote: Modi is a complete idiot and had caused massive damage to the Indian economy with a series of major missteps. A war or crisis with China would distract from his general lack of competence.
    Not an idiot, but like most Indian PMs before him he has been created by Israel, US and Saudi Arabia. He follows their instructions.

    At the same time Anglo Saxon states and Israel are also encouraging China to wipe out India for good. China should seize the initiative and use nuclear weapons against India.

    India's nuclear arsenal is 1/10th the size of China's with no second strike capability.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:09 pm

    India then using Iranian port for access to central Asia.
    Iran-China recent investment/mil. coop. agreement nipped the Indian port in Iran in the bud. 
    The Broken Promise of Chabahar
    https://www.wionews.com/india-news/as-china-eyes-multi-billion-dollar-iran-deal-indias-chabahar-port-may-lose-relevance-313054


    China-India Border Dispute: PLA Bombers Pictured Close to Troubled Region
    Indo-China dispute  - Page 3 Mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdgxhtav2e25a8.cloudfront.net%2Fblkbullet1 Indian and Chinese Troops Man Remote Himalayan Outposts Just Hundreds of Meters Apart
    Indo-China dispute  - Page 3 Mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdgxhtav2e25a8.cloudfront.net%2Fblkbullet1 China-India Border Dispute: Video of Violent Clash Between Soldiers Goes Viral

    How Russia can help ease tensions in the Himalayas

    https://iz.ru/1057954/kseniia-loginova/gimalaiskii-otvet-indiia-i-kitai-poprobuiut-pomiritsia-v-moskve


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add links)
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:58 am


    The mutual interests of Asian largest economies, is paramount. Linking Asia together. Two wrongs don't make a right. India should be given opportunity to join the Euro - Asian economies. Ports and roads should be left open for trade. Nobody should put pressure on anyone else. To choke them economically. The problem is to overcome the ultra - nationalist and expansionist elements. Allow for peaceful use of territories, for civilian trade. The solution is to open more doors. Even if others close theirs.

    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:21 pm

    China is deploying Type-928D assault boats in Pangong lake. It is equipped with a 12.7mm machine gun (in RWS) & two 7.62mm MGs. PangongTso just happens to be the highest marine battleground on Earth.

    https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/09/china-strengthens-inland-navy-on-indian-border/

    India probably will have to deploy BMPs to counter these assault boats. BMPs swimming in the water can transport 8men each & carry a 30mm gun that can rip these boats apart.

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:47 pm

    The UK and the USA are laughing as they bait China and India against each other. Divide and conquer, the easiest game ever.

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:57 pm

    Sino-Indian border dispute





    Pics of the Lake

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:20 pm

    India swings like a pendulum between China and US
    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:24 pm

    A serving Indian AirForce explains how a Chinese assault on India will take shape

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/china-war-plan-takes-leaf-out-of-russian-playbook/story-LovIlFVsyTTK2ChWHybUMK.html

    He says, a Chinese offensive is likely to involve troops moving forward under a barrage of artillery and rocket fire, with surface-to-air missile batteries giving protection to their weapon systems from IAF attacks with troops based in depth areas (in this case, Hotan airbase 320km from the Line of Actual Control) providing the air-defence cover.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:36 am

    India probably will have to deploy BMPs to counter these assault boats. BMPs swimming in the water can transport 8men each & carry a 30mm gun that can rip these boats apart.

    Not a good idea... BMPs are designed to traverse rivers and lakes but are not designed to fight in them...

    A bit of battle damage or a few waves caused by the wakes of boats or exploding munitions in the water and most amphibious armoured vehicles can struggle... and once they take on too much water to overwhelm their bilge pumps they sink like rocks...

    Hate to sound like a broken record but even a 2S1 122mm gun would be better... depending on the size of the lake...

    but speed, fire power, the ability to deliver 8 troops... I would say Hind... an upgraded model with twin barrel 23mm nose mounted cannon and rockets and 23mm gun pods and ATGMs... just make sure it has DIRCMs to deal with MANPADS.

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    Post  Sujoy Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:00 pm

    India deploys long-range missile Nirbhay to counter Chinese threat at LAC

    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/india-deploys-long-range-missile-nirbhay-to-counter-chinese-threat-at-lac-1726255-2020-09-28

    Nirbhay is a long-range subsonic missile with a range of 1000 kms.
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    Post  Sujoy Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:04 pm

    Indian media is reporting that China has started to place S-400 units on the border with India.


    Indo-China dispute  - Page 3 Ss10


    https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1316007811776606210?s=20
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:58 pm

    Now, India wants to reach an optimal equilibrium but cannot. India has already provided China an upper hand, so China is not interested in optimal equilibrium with India. The prolonged military standoff at the border created a suitable condition for China to build pressure on India to accept a sub-optimal equilibrium. India missed the train looking at “the West,” and China is far ahead of India. In Asia’s economic, political, and military hierarchy, China wants to see itself at the top, followed by others . Although Indian strategists muse that India is a king in South Asia and the Indian Ocean rimland, Chinese strategists consider India a pawn. The king is someone else who moves India as a pawn for the sake of its strategic objectives. According to mechanics theory, a branch of physics, to attain equilibrium by using a lever, the person near the fulcrum must apply greater force than the person far from the fulcrum. This theory is also applicable in foreign policy, and India needs to put extra energy to attain equilibrium. In this strategic game, India has two strategic options, wage war against China or accept the Chinese demand to implement the agreements and consensus reached in the first and second informal summits. India is facing its worst economic crisis since its independence in 1947. Gross domestic product nosedived by 23.9%  in the first quarter of the current fiscal year (April-June). The central government failed to provide goods and service tax (GST) compensation to the state governments, and as a result, Indian federalism is at risk . How India would pay for a war is a crucial question. China also has two strategic options, wage war against India or wear it down by prolonging the border standoff. The payoff of the current Sino-Indian strategic game favors China either way. When China made offers to India at the informal summits for a bilateral partnership to make the Asian century, India held the upper hand. It could bargain for more favorable terms in any Chinese proposal. That scenario has changed dramatically because of Jaishankar’s strategic blunder.“Some kind of understanding or equilibrium” is sub-optimal for India, but optimal for China. If India wants to reach equilibrium, it has to “give” more and “take” less than China, and the latter sets the terms and conditions, not India.By putting all his eggs in the American basket, Jaishankar was not taking a strategic risk. He was gambling. 
    The game India plays isn't worth a candle.She'll be a sacrificial lamb to be used in PRC-West confrontation. She can't use them as well & they can use her against China. The 5 eyes & Japan won't be dancing to the Indian tune- they have their own agendas with regards to their relations with China.

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:05 pm

    As I was saying: Behind China’s threat to support insurgency in India
    China has long experience in aiding some insurgents/separatists/freedom fighters in Myanmar, Afghanistan & Malaysia before that.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:39 pm

    Tame the dragon of China, wake the tiger of India

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:41 am

    Did China use microwave weapons on Indian soldiers?
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    Post  George1 Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:17 am

    Next-Flashpoint Or Secret Deal: What Is Cooking In Doklam Between India, China & Bhutan?

    https://eurasiantimes.com/next-flashpoint-or-secret-deal-what-is-cooking-in-doklam-between-india-china-bhutan/
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    Post  immortal_sharpener Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:15 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:Cooperation with China is of strategic importance, India is just an annoying customer that complains too mutch and in addition to that has a tendency to lean west, hardly a useful ally.
    That's the correct assessment. Kremlin should ideally help China in wiping out this failed state of India. It's existence or lack of it makes no difference.

    China is a neighbor, a major customer of Russian raw materials and bilateral trade between Russia and China is worth hundreds of billions of dollars.

    India OTOH with a massive population of 1.3 billion puts huge pressure on scarce natural resources the world over. Hindus have a reputation of entering Russia and Western countries illegally and then settling down there forever.

    nomadski wrote:I suppose China wants to open route to Pakistan and ME region by land route. And India is anxious of growing power of Pakistan. America tried to stop Iran pipeline to India, through Pakistan. And I think Pakistan agreed, for a while. Pakistan also not allow access by India to Afghanistan, for trade. India then using Iranian port for access to central Asia.
    In this ongoing dispute Iran should side with the China-Pakistan alliance.

    Iran has a lot to gain from this alliance. India is a failed state with a dubious history.

    mnztr wrote: Modi is a complete idiot and had caused massive damage to the Indian economy with a series of major missteps. A war or crisis with China would distract from his general lack of competence.
    Not an idiot, but like most Indian PMs before him he has been created by Israel, US and Saudi Arabia. He follows their instructions.

    At the same time Anglo Saxon states and Israel are also encouraging China to wipe out India for good. China should seize the initiative and use nuclear weapons against India.

    India's nuclear arsenal is 1/10th the size of China's with no second strike capability.

    That is some salty salty 50cent shill. You shouldn't care how indians live or die, use natural resources they need because they pay for that. Not illegally mine them in Antarctica.
    India BUYS the wepons from russia, the military isn't satisfied by them, okay they have right to complain, you buy a car by your hard earned money, you didn't like how it turns out after a year(Volkswagen) you have right to complain.
    Same mentality hitler had wiping out useless population of jews.
    Atleast it has free press, and hadn't spread a virus killing almost all the world's economies.
    Maybe my first post here which i didn't expect to be such negative.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:53 am

    The UK and the USA are laughing as they bait China and India against each other. Divide and conquer, the easiest game ever.

    The lesson for everyone... don't fix your own problems, or even balance your books... borrow lots of money from your closest rival and then set up their rival to fight them so your debt and problems are forgotten in a harsh and bloody conflict you fuelled and created... no wonder they think they are the civilised part of humanity...

    That is some salty salty 50cent shill. You shouldn't care how indians live or die, use natural resources they need because they pay for that. Not illegally mine them in Antarctica.
    India BUYS the wepons from russia, the military isn't satisfied by them, okay they have right to complain, you buy a car by your hard earned money, you didn't like how it turns out after a year(Volkswagen) you have right to complain.
    Same mentality hitler had wiping out useless population of jews.
    Atleast it has free press, and hadn't spread a virus killing almost all the world's economies.
    Maybe my first post here which i didn't expect to be such negative.

    Very interesting first post... on the surface seems fine, though you did manage to compare him to Hitlers extermination of the Jews, considering the person you are talking to this probably is not too worried about the jews perhaps a more accurate comment would be Hitlers extermination of 30 million Soviet citizens.

    China didn't spread any virus... viruses spread themselves... if China had spread the virus then logically it would have started in the west and not in China... and they should already have had a vaccine ready before they started spreading it.

    Effectively you are getting a double jab... ironic considering the Russian vaccine is a two injection process, but not only are you implying that the evil Chinese created a deadly virus, but they also accidentally... incompetently released it amongst their own population before they had developed the vaccine to protect themselves when the blowback came back to their shores...

    The real irony is commenting on a Russian being pro China and salty on India, while being pro India and salty on China...

    But this is a discussion forum and you both have rights to opinions.

    Just a reminder to everyone to treat other people with respect, and not abuse someone because they don't share the same opinion as you do.

    Personally I prefer both China and India to the west in terms of morality and criminal intent...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:59 am

    China quietly fuels India and Pakistan’s next conflict

    Pakistan's surprise move to declare the contested Gilgit-Baltistan region a province will irk India and please China. 
    In the run-up to recent local elections, Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan announced he had granted “provisional” provincial status to Gilgit-Baltistan, a semi-autonomous state that India also claims as part of the disputed region of Kashmir.
    Khan’s designation was declared soon after a closed-door meeting in September between the Pakistan army’s top brass and opposition parliamentarians and has raised widespread speculation that China tacitly supported the potentially explosive announcement.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:37 pm

    Tibet Railway Network Speeding Up to the Indian Border

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