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    Project 949A: Oscar-II

    lyle6
    lyle6

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    Project 949A: Oscar-II - Page 18 Empty Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  lyle6 on Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:38 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Oscars are loud as fuck compared to Yasens and are approaching their expiration date

    They can have 10 times as many missiles, it doesn't change the fact that time moves on

    The Anteys were never the quietest boats even when they entered service and yet that didn't stop them from achieving their tasks. If acoustic detection is all the Antey had to worry about its certainly no issue at all, with modern sonars having trouble beyond 50 miles or so against late cold war vessels, which is by far incomparable to the range at which the Antey with its original weapons can threaten surface targets at, nevermind upgraded UKSK weaponry. If anything, with modern sensor nets and much better stand-off options, the Antey with its deep magazines offers any fleet it serves with a substantial increase in killing power that is just hard to miss. It couldn't replace the Yasen in many missions, but the Anteys are a capable complement; if there are projects underway to have wingman drones that carry missiles for their manned counterparts, why shouldn't the Yasens have one in the Antey? You could offload the majority of the anti-surface tasks to the larger boats while devoting the much more valuable stowage space on the Yasen for purely anti-sub purposes.

    Then there is the fact that Russian Navy isn't exactly flush with hulls either that it can afford to offload older but capable boats just because. In an ideal world the Yasen would have replaced the Anteys and but a handful of the newest Schuka-Bs - but this is not that world. There is a Husky being designed to get rid of the legacy Soviet boats but it won't be in steel for many more years while a capability gap exists now, and the upgraded Antey should do its share of bridging that gap while they wait.




    lancelot
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    Project 949A: Oscar-II - Page 18 Empty Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  lancelot on Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:56 am

    The problem is that the upgrades take way too long. Just look at the Admiral Nakhimov and it isn't the only example.
    The time and dry dock space required might as well be used to build an entirely new ship.
    Given more modern and compact missiles you can get the same capability terminal effects as on the Oscar-II but with a smaller hull.
    I think the Yasen can easily replace this ship. While the numbers might not be as great as they used to be, it will still be about 2x the amount of attack submarines France or the UK has.

    Personally I think the idea with the Husky class of having a shared hull for two different submarine classes isn't exactly totally new. Just look at the Borei class (1-3). Based on the Akula attack submarine hull.
    The-thing-next-door
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    Project 949A: Oscar-II - Page 18 Empty Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:16 am

    lancelot wrote:The problem is that the upgrades take way too long. Just look at the Admiral Nakhimov and it isn't the only example.
    The time and dry dock space required might as well be used to build an entirely new ship.

    And you think the designing, building and testing and entirely new class of missile submarine will be cheaper?


    While the numbers might not be as great as they used to be, it will still be about 2x the amount of attack submarines France or the UK has.

    The Russian navy is already greater than both the navies of thoes satellite states combined, what they need is atleast 50 nuclear submarines to counter the pindostanski plague.
    AMCXXL
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    Project 949A: Oscar-II - Page 18 Empty Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  AMCXXL on Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:23 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:

    The Russian navy is already greater than both the navies of thoes satellite states combined, what they need is atleast 50 nuclear submarines to counter the pindostanski plague.

    Uff... no, 50 nuclear submarines not possible

    Russia keep about 32-35 submarines in the ranks since 15 or more years ago

    It is not probable that will have more than 36 nuclear submarines as much in the future:

    12 SSBN for nuclear deterrence (parity with USA Navy)
    10-12 Yasen for the hunt of USA Carriers
    12-14 new SSN for the other tasks

    Isos wrote:12 means 6 for each fleet which is enough for a 140m class sub.

    With 20 husky that's 16 nuclear sub in each fleet. I doubt they want more than that.

    The project is started for a long time now and they already have experience with new stuff on Borei and Yasen M. It won't take a lit to start.

    Severodvinsk pr. 885 length 139 m.

    pr. 885M length : 130 m,

    I bet for 10 885M , 5 each fleet

    "Severodvinsk" probably will be overhauled for special purpose as Oscar II "Belgorod".
    These two submarines should replace the two Delta´s of special purpose.

    By 2030 Russian Navy Should have 32-34 nuclear submarines in the ranks:
    12 Borey´s
    10 Yasen´s
    8-10 Akula´s and 2-4 949AM (Sierra´s unlikely to remain in service beyond 2030)


    About new SSN, is not probably to built 20.
    There are only 14 SSN in the ranks and two Victor III and two Sierra II are for fill the gap because the lack of Akulas

    The most probable is 12 new SSN, 14 as much




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    GarryB
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    Project 949A: Oscar-II - Page 18 Empty Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:02 am

    The Anteys were never the quietest boats even when they entered service and yet that didn't stop them from achieving their tasks.

    They are huge boats with at least three metres between their inner hull and their outer hull where the missiles are fitted so there is plenty of space for sound dampening material and any upgrades to improve the balance of motors and systems and improved shaped props could dramatically reduce noise if that was an issue.

    The current upgrades for teh engines for the Bear Bombers involved new engines and improved propellers that reduced vibration by something like 50% which is enormous...

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