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    Project 949A: Oscar-II

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:58 am

    That in theory, you will never know where a hostile attack submarine can be and again the Antei can be easily tracked, these are large underwater buses.

    So in a combat scenario where there is a decay enemy navy it will require protection from other vessels. Even when they were first built.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:53 am

    That in theory, you will never know where a hostile attack submarine can be and again the Antei can be easily tracked, these are large underwater buses.

    The Oscars were not super silent, but they were easily quiet enough for their role.

    Bigger does not mean noisier... in fact the size of the Oscars meant lots of sound reducing material could be fitted in the enormous gap between its inner and outer hull (which also had the Granit tubes).

    They weren't bad, otherwise there would be no value in upgrading them... but Yasens are much better in most regards except raw missile numbers.

    First you discribe a undersurface barge and then a cruiser...

    Not a general cruiser... if it has its own AESA radars on a large tower then it can semi surface and you could add SAM related vertical launch tubes and it could provide area defence too.

    Large side mounted sonar arrays and some vertical launch Pakets for anti torpedo use... in fact you could build anti torpedo berms into the sides of the vessel to make it torpedo proof...

    Borei, without all the expensive stuff that makes it a great SSBN, can do the work. It could carry 16×8 missiles, have torpedoes to defend itsekf but also a wonderfull stealth. Once it launches its missiles at ground targets it can even do the job of SSN or track carriers with remaining missiles in the torpedo tubes or in the VLS.

    A Borei with all the expensive stuff is more useful as an SSBN...

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:21 pm

    The reason they are upgrading them is simply budget-related, it's cheaper to do this then build a whole new class from scratch.

    In Russia mind the idea is very simple. "We don't need the ships to be stealthy that much long as they can fire the missiles that's all that matters"

    Antei's aren't quiet by today's standards. If the boat was to ever engage surface ships, it would have protection from other friendly vessels.

    It wouldn't be out on its own in the middle of nowhere
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:55 pm

    Antei's aren't quiet by today's standards. If the boat was to ever engage surface ships, it would have protection from other friendly vessels.

    Modern sonar in a sea that is not really calm is not greater than few tens of km. In very hard sea it's few km only.

    They have 500+km range missiles. They are more quite than any other sub since they don't need to go as close as a SSN using only torpedoes.

    It was supposed to launch its missiles togather with Slavas, Kirovs and Kuznetsov. So they would provide protection anyway.

    But kirovs are retired or mod with UKSK, Slavas aren't going to stay for long and Oscar number is dropping so the Granit and Bazalt missiles are becoming useless as the salvo would be small and not a big deal for modern air defence systems.

    The other advantage of Oscar is the 650mm torpedoes with 100km range. Modern torpedoes would even go at 150km.


    Last edited by Isos on Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:54 am

    The reason they are upgrading them is simply budget-related, it's cheaper to do this then build a whole new class from scratch.

    If that were the case it is each cheaper and quicker to do nothing at all and just scrap them.

    The fact is that except for an arsenal type vessel they don't need big subs with large batches of anti ship missiles any more... the modern missiles are multi purpose weapons for use against ships and land targets and there are anti sub missiles too.
    Every ship in their navy is going to have a bundle of tubes available for use, and it is not like they are going to be invading countries at the rate the west does...

    They now have container launchers for all the missiles used in the UKSK launcher and they have added the Redut system and the TOR missiles to the containerised systems that can be placed on the deck of any ship... connected to onboard power and used on practically any surface vessel.

    It would not surprise me if they didn't just build a few flat top ships for cargo or as an arsenal ship as needed...

    What they need to do is develop collapsable standard shipping containers so once they have launched their weapons they can be flattened and stowed... it would work best if you linked some together so one has missiles in it and can be flattened after being fired and the control module can launch the missiles from the next container...

    If the boat was to ever engage surface ships, it would have protection from other friendly vessels.

    And the 1,000km between them and the targets...

    It wouldn't be out on its own in the middle of nowhere

    I could be sent off to cover a flank...

    But kirovs are retired or mod with UKSK, Slavas aren't going to stay for long and Oscar number is dropping so the Granit and Bazalt missiles are becoming useless as the salvo wouldn't be small and not a big deal for modern air defence systems.

    Replaced with much larger numbers (on all of those platforms) of smaller faster longer ranged missiles... Zircon is over 1,000km range...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:46 pm

    The Osars may be armed with the as well: https://112.ua/mnenie/rossiya-porazila-novym-oruzhiem-sposobnym-probivat-arkticheskiy-led-546864.html
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:29 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The Osars may be armed with the as well: https://112.ua/mnenie/rossiya-porazila-novym-oruzhiem-sposobnym-probivat-arkticheskiy-led-546864.html

    You are triple posting this shit


    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:17 am

    Yes, since it's related to other threads, & so more people see it. If u got a problem, complain to moderators - I don't need ur remarks on what I do. DON'T BOTHER TO REPLY.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:49 pm

    Update on Oscar modernization & opinion which I share: 
    https://vz.ru/society/2020/9/3/1058182.html
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    Post  Arrow on Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:34 pm

    Maybe they found the 885M much more modern and quieter. And it is better to invest in 885M. There will be 9 885Ms and they will continue to build the next-generation Husky. Oscar II is submarine from the 1980s. It is better to invest in modern submarines. Russia will have multiple caliber launchers on frigates, corvettes, etc.
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:40 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Update on Oscar modernization & opinion which I share: 
    https://vz.ru/society/2020/9/3/1058182.html

    The "analyst" isn't in a position to know anything detailed about the 945A or 971 modernisation programs or their status.  They call these articles "opinion pieces" for a reason, and opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.

    For instance, Leopard and Wolf are both in the Severodvinsk boathouse undergoing modernisation, while Vepr has left Nerpa on sea trials.  Magadan is in the boathouse at Zvesda, but AFAIK its for repairs.

    While I'd agree that the modernisations haven't been as extensive as first proposed, thats most likely because the Russian military has more important things to spend money on.  Rolling out 855Ms and the Husky/Laika promises far better long term returns than throwing cash at cold war era boats (such as modernising the 2x Pr.945 Sierra-I). They will compromise and update the best units available, and gradually retire the others when new build boats come online.

    The main thing is that today the Ash project itself requires serious modernization.

    Yeah, I rest my case. The most lethal SSN/SSGN in the ocean needs "modernisation"...  What a fucking idiot. He's a comprador maggot with a hidden agenda.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:07 am

    Yasen was already updated to Yasen-M. The specialist doesn't know his subject it seems.

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    Post  Arrow on Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:22 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:

    Yeah, I rest my case. The most lethal SSN/SSGN in the ocean needs "modernisation"...  What a fucking idiot.  He's a comprador maggot with a hidden agenda.

    Not only Yasen M. Also dangerous and there is the American Virginia, of which there are more submarine this class.[/quote]
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:03 pm

    Photo of K-132 Irkutsk in the boathouse at Zvezda undergoing modernisation works. Apparently he will be back in service by 2022.

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