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    Coastal Missile Systems

    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:19 pm

    "Bastion", Black Sea Fleet

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:42 am

    Bastions in camouflage that reduces the IR spectrum Very Happy


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    Post  franco Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:44 pm

    The new missile of the "Ball" complex will allow hitting targets at a distance of over 500 km

    The new capabilities of the complex made it comparable in range and ground-firing capabilities with the Bastion missile system using the Onyx supersonic missile, a source in the military-industrial complex said.

    MOSCOW, October 19. / TASS /. The firing range of the Bal coastal missile complex (DBK) after testing the new missile was doubled, it also got the opportunity to hit ground targets in addition to ships. This was reported to TASS by a source in the military-industrial complex.

    "The tests of the new ball missile ballistic missile system carried out in one of the fleets confirmed that its flight range exceeded 500 km, and thanks to the new guidance system, it was able to hit targets on the ground," he said.

    According to the agency's interlocutor, the new capabilities of the Bala made it comparable in range and ground-firing capabilities to the Bastion missile launcher using the Onyx supersonic missile (the complex and the missile were developed by NPO Mashinostroyenia).

    The Tactical Missile Armament Corporation, which developed and produces the Bal complex, did not comment on this information to TASS.

    BRK "Bal" is armed with X-35 and X-35U missiles with a flight range of 120 and 260 km, respectively. The upgraded Kh-35E missile with a range of up to 300 km can be guided through a drone. In the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the complex is used in tandem with the BRK "Bastion". About the latter it was reported that during the hostilities in Syria, it was used to fire at ground targets. "Ball" can fire 32 missiles in one salvo, it has 32 more missiles in its ammunition. He is able to ensure the disruption of the combat mission of a large naval strike group of the enemy, his airborne detachment or convoy.

    https://tass-ru.translate.goog/armiya-i-opk/12697011?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui

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    Post  Sujoy Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:35 pm

    franco wrote:The new missile of the "Ball" complex will allow hitting targets at a distance of over 500 km

    The new capabilities of the complex made it comparable in range and ground-firing capabilities with the Bastion missile system using the Onyx supersonic missile, a source in the military-industrial complex said.

    MOSCOW, October 19. / TASS /. The firing range of the Bal coastal missile complex (DBK) after testing the new missile was doubled, it also got the opportunity to hit ground targets in addition to ships. This was reported to TASS by a source in the military-industrial complex.

    "The tests of the new ball missile ballistic missile system carried out in one of the fleets confirmed that its flight range exceeded 500 km, and thanks to the new guidance system, it was able to hit targets on the ground," he said.

    According to the agency's interlocutor, the new capabilities of the Bala made it comparable in range and ground-firing capabilities to the Bastion missile launcher using the Onyx supersonic missile (the complex and the missile were developed by NPO Mashinostroyenia).

    The Tactical Missile Armament Corporation, which developed and produces the Bal complex, did not comment on this information to TASS.

    BRK "Bal" is armed with X-35 and X-35U missiles with a flight range of 120 and 260 km, respectively. The upgraded Kh-35E missile with a range of up to 300 km can be guided through a drone. In the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the complex is used in tandem with the BRK "Bastion". About the latter it was reported that during the hostilities in Syria, it was used to fire at ground targets. "Ball" can fire 32 missiles in one salvo, it has 32 more missiles in its ammunition. He is able to ensure the disruption of the combat mission of a large naval strike group of the enemy, his airborne detachment or convoy.

    https://tass-ru.translate.goog/armiya-i-opk/12697011?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui
    Substantial range increase. Not sure how the designers brought this about. New fuel got it to 350km a decade ago. So maybe this increase is due to reduction in SFC by use of new engine design, better electronics in the nose plus some structural composites in lieu of aluminum

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:46 pm

    Few months ago many were surprised that Su-34 finished tests and integration of the kh-35 on the aircraft.

    Maybe they were talking about this one.

    IMO it will be a bit longer and maybe with stealthier shapes.

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    Post  Arrow Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:55 pm

    Probably the P 800 has a much greater range than declared. There is talk of a range of over 800km and an increase in speed to 5M on the new fuel.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:19 am

    Perhaps the 120km and 240km range figures were for export missiles and that domestic models might have engine improvements and increased fuel capacities?

    Even that Kh-35E they mention with a 300km range sounds limited to 300km for export.

    Being a jet powered missile I would suspect one way to massively increase range is to make it climb to altitude at the start of its flight... say 10km or so... and then fly to the target area at that altitude and then drop down if you detect enemy radar activity. This would increase flight speed because the air at that altitude is thinner and colder, and lower drag would mean it burns less fuel so it can fly much longer.... flying faster and for longer are the keys to flying further.

    As long as it does not fly along scanning for targets it is not going to be obvious and if the target is a ground target instead of a ship there might not be any radars scanning for incoming missiles... like a terrorist ammo dump in Syria... so it could fly all the way at altitude and have a near vertical dive on the target...

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    Post  Sujoy Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:Perhaps the 120km and 240km range figures were for export missiles and that domestic models might have engine improvements and increased fuel capacities?
    Yes, but this is not a new missile, rather, it is a new modification of an existing missile with enhanced capabilities.
    The fun begins when one considers why using anti-ship missiles against key enablers ( AWACS , JSTAR) of fleet missile defence should be impossible.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:43 am

    Yes, but this is not a new missile, rather, it is a new modification of an existing missile with enhanced capabilities.

    Yes, I agree it is not a new missile but...

    It is odd because of this:


    "The tests of the new ball missile ballistic missile system carried out in one of the fleets confirmed that its flight range exceeded 500 km, and thanks to the new guidance system, it was able to hit targets on the ground," he said.

    It calls it a ballistic missile system... but I suspect this is a mistake and that the new guidance system uses a ballistic flight profile where it climbs to altitude to increase flight speed and make the jet engine more efficient.

    Against a ship target that would make the missile much easier to detect if the ships radars are scanning for targets so normally the missile flys very low which makes it much harder to detect but also reduces flight range dramatically too.

    Against a ship target not scanning the airspace with radar... trying to not give away its position... or a ground target that likely wont be scanning for threats not wanting to give away its position either an all high flight profile could be used to massively extend range.

    More importantly because of its low flight speed you could actually be rather clever about it.

    Say your long range long wave over the horizon radar detects a group of enemy ships... they will have their radar off so as to not reveal their position or intent, so they will be sneaking forward, the situation for the defence is that they have Onyx missiles with new fuels with a flight range of 800km and a speed of mach 5 or so, but then they have a gap down to 300km or so for their low flying all the way Kh-35U subsonic missiles.

    What they could do is launch the subsonic Kh-35s first but have them fly at high altitude to double their range... but when those subsonic missiles get to the radar horizon of the target ships have them drop down to 3m above the water and attack the targets from very low altitude where they are hard to spot and hard to engage. Launch the high speed missiles at a timed launch... the Onyx missiles cannot fly at high speed at very low altitude because of the denser air and so flying at low altitude they wouldn't go mach 5... they likely wouldn't go much faster than Mach 2.5 so having them come over the radar horizon at mach 5 is a benefit... remember the ships don't have their radars scanning anyway because they are sneaking up trying to be clever... so when the Kh-35s drop down to low altitude they will keep approaching the targets at low level... the fast missiles wont drop down low and will likely trip the defences of the targets who will probably detect them because of their IR signature which will result in them switching on their radar to defend themselves.

    The point is that if they time it correctly they will be facing high speed high altitude diving missile targets, but also low flying anti ship missiles all at the same time and that is assuming they are not a big enough surface ship group to warrant a MiG-31K attack with Kinzhal was not used... maybe the group included landing ships so they defended using Bal and Onyx, while a separate group with two carriers had MiG-31Ks and Daggers blunting their attack.

    The different flight profile extends reach against targets that might not be so well defended or alert including ground targets and perhaps less well protected ships.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:43 pm

    The firing range of the anti-ship missile of the Bal complex has been increased to 500 kilometers

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4417239.html

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    Post  kvs Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:36 am

    George1 wrote:The firing range of the anti-ship missile of the Bal complex has been increased to 500 kilometers

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4417239.html

    This is spectacular news. The previous 120 km limit was good enough for NATzO's old coastal attack plan but has become
    inadequate since NATzO plans to transfer landing troops to landing craft beyond 160 km from the shoreline.

    The new range allows the Bal complex to completely cover the Black sea and even 200 km inland on opposing shores.
    A slew of other bays and strategic locations have obtained total coverage from the new missile.



    The new missile is designed to hit land targets.



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    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:31 am

    Interestingly they show the Bals firing thier missiles like MRLS rockets, that could be quite devastating, especially if the targets have been softened up by missiles from some Bastion batteries.
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    Post  kvs Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:49 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Interestingly they show the Bals firing thier missiles like MRLS rockets, that could be quite devastating, especially if the targets have been softened up by missiles from some Bastion batteries.

    Indeed, it can be fired in salvos according to the video.
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    Post  ALAMO Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:38 am

    Not "can" but "must", in order to achieve a proper saturation.
    I suppose that there are several start & flight sequences, depending on the target type.
    3M80/82 already were designed keeping the synchronization of attack in mind.
    Once shot in salvos, they were programmed to strike with minimal time differences and with several directions.
    Those were called "mini Granit", and actually, Russians considered them as AEGIS breakers for smaller theatres like Baltics or the Black Sea.
    Russkies mastered those techniques since the 70s, and each next gen was capable to work in a bigger group, with P-500 capable to communicate with each other in a salvo of up to 8 missiles.

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:13 pm


    I just love how a single truck carries same amount of missiles as full size corvette

    They need to do this with Onyx, 6 per truck will do

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    Post  Isos Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:24 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    I just love how a single truck carries same amount of missiles as full size corvette

    They need to do this with Onyx, 6 per truck will do


    Already done with kalibr missiles. Take a look at land launcher of kalibr.

    For the bastion it is only 2 missiles but I don't really know why. At 3 tons per missiles it would be a 18 ton load. Maybe the actual truck isn't able to carry it and a bigger one would loose the mobility they want it to have.


    Back to the kh-35 with 500km range, it will have a great export success. Being able to launch from a truck 8 cruise missiles is a huge game changer for smaller countries that have enemy neighbours. Egypt can cover all Israel with it, India would cover a big Pakistani territory...

    Being on a truck makes it impossible to find and destroy and can be use quickly and from anywhere.

    As of now such countries needed expensive planes and expensive missiles available in very small numbers. Now they can have a laucher for less than a million and the export kh-35 should be around 1 million piece.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:27 am

    Like most weapons of its type you would need good C4IR to make them actually effective, but they would be a very interesting and potent system for many countries... where air defence levels means single low flying subsonic missiles have a good chance of never even being noticed if you do your homework... as in Saudi Arabia...
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    Post  franco Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:17 pm

    Kuril Islands "covered" with coastal missile systems "Bastion"

    The Kuril Islands were covered with coastal missile systems. BRK "Bastion" was first deployed on the island of Matua in the central part of the Kuril ridge. This was reported by the press service of the Eastern Military District.

    The Ministry of Defense has decided to deploy coastal missile systems on the Kuril Islands. A small island of Matua with an area of ​​only 52 square meters was chosen to accommodate them. kilometers. According to the Okrug's press service, the DBK will be on combat duty all year round, controlling the adjacent water area and straits.

    An autonomous military town has been deployed on the island, which has everything you need for year-round residence and service of personnel. The missile systems were delivered to the island on large landing ships of the Pacific Fleet , positions have already been equipped for the DBK, and the crews took up combat duty.

    Note that the Russian Ministry of Defense pays great attention to the protection of the Kuril Islands. Earlier, Su-35S multipurpose fighters were deployed on Iturup Island, and Bal and Bastion mobile missile systems of coastal defense were deployed to Kunashir and Iturup. All the necessary infrastructure is being built for the military, including housing. From December 1, 2020, the S-300V4 anti-aircraft missile systems, deployed again on Iturup, took up combat duty.

    All actions of the Russian Ministry of Defense react painfully in Tokyo, where they still consider the southern Kurils as their "Northern Territories." Japan still hopes that Russia will give them these territories, although it was clearly stated earlier that the Kuril Islands belong to Russia and Russian sovereignty over them is not negotiable. Today the Japanese prime minister said that the issue of signing a peace treaty with Russia should not be postponed until future times and generations.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/189739-kurilskie-ostrova-prikryli-beregovymi-raketnymi-kompleksami-bastion.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12396803@egNews

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    Post  Hole Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:44 pm

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    Post  Hole Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:44 pm

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    Post  Hole Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:45 pm

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    Post  George1 Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:31 pm

    Russian Bastion coastal defense missile systems go on combat alert on Kuril Islands

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    Post  Broski Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:28 pm

    franco wrote:All actions of the Russian Ministry of Defense react painfully in Tokyo, where they still consider the southern Kurils as their "Northern Territories." Japan still hopes that Russia will give them these territories, although it was clearly stated earlier that the Kuril Islands belong to Russia and Russian sovereignty over them is not negotiable. Today the Japanese prime minister said that the issue of signing a peace treaty with Russia should not be postponed until future times and generations.
    Even if Russia wanted to, giving the Kurils back to Japan just means the Americans will put their weapons systems there instead, further flanking Russian territory with 1st strike, nuclear-capable cruise missiles.
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    Post  Arrow Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:13 am


    Sea of ​​Okhotsk is well protected.

    Coastal Missile Systems - Page 5 FFnxlr-DXs-AUCHKK-jpeg

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    Post  owais.usmani Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:51 am

    They have Bastions deployed on Iturup as well? I didn't know that, how come the Japanese are not having seizures! Very Happy

    Btw any of the Kuril islands also have S-400 / S-300 deployed?

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