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    Coastal Missile Systems

    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:19 pm

    "Bastion", Black Sea Fleet

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    Arrow

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    Post  Arrow Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:42 am

    Bastions in camouflage that reduces the IR spectrum Very Happy


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    franco
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    Post  franco Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:44 pm

    The new missile of the "Ball" complex will allow hitting targets at a distance of over 500 km

    The new capabilities of the complex made it comparable in range and ground-firing capabilities with the Bastion missile system using the Onyx supersonic missile, a source in the military-industrial complex said.

    MOSCOW, October 19. / TASS /. The firing range of the Bal coastal missile complex (DBK) after testing the new missile was doubled, it also got the opportunity to hit ground targets in addition to ships. This was reported to TASS by a source in the military-industrial complex.

    "The tests of the new ball missile ballistic missile system carried out in one of the fleets confirmed that its flight range exceeded 500 km, and thanks to the new guidance system, it was able to hit targets on the ground," he said.

    According to the agency's interlocutor, the new capabilities of the Bala made it comparable in range and ground-firing capabilities to the Bastion missile launcher using the Onyx supersonic missile (the complex and the missile were developed by NPO Mashinostroyenia).

    The Tactical Missile Armament Corporation, which developed and produces the Bal complex, did not comment on this information to TASS.

    BRK "Bal" is armed with X-35 and X-35U missiles with a flight range of 120 and 260 km, respectively. The upgraded Kh-35E missile with a range of up to 300 km can be guided through a drone. In the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the complex is used in tandem with the BRK "Bastion". About the latter it was reported that during the hostilities in Syria, it was used to fire at ground targets. "Ball" can fire 32 missiles in one salvo, it has 32 more missiles in its ammunition. He is able to ensure the disruption of the combat mission of a large naval strike group of the enemy, his airborne detachment or convoy.

    https://tass-ru.translate.goog/armiya-i-opk/12697011?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:35 pm

    franco wrote:The new missile of the "Ball" complex will allow hitting targets at a distance of over 500 km

    The new capabilities of the complex made it comparable in range and ground-firing capabilities with the Bastion missile system using the Onyx supersonic missile, a source in the military-industrial complex said.

    MOSCOW, October 19. / TASS /. The firing range of the Bal coastal missile complex (DBK) after testing the new missile was doubled, it also got the opportunity to hit ground targets in addition to ships. This was reported to TASS by a source in the military-industrial complex.

    "The tests of the new ball missile ballistic missile system carried out in one of the fleets confirmed that its flight range exceeded 500 km, and thanks to the new guidance system, it was able to hit targets on the ground," he said.

    According to the agency's interlocutor, the new capabilities of the Bala made it comparable in range and ground-firing capabilities to the Bastion missile launcher using the Onyx supersonic missile (the complex and the missile were developed by NPO Mashinostroyenia).

    The Tactical Missile Armament Corporation, which developed and produces the Bal complex, did not comment on this information to TASS.

    BRK "Bal" is armed with X-35 and X-35U missiles with a flight range of 120 and 260 km, respectively. The upgraded Kh-35E missile with a range of up to 300 km can be guided through a drone. In the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the complex is used in tandem with the BRK "Bastion". About the latter it was reported that during the hostilities in Syria, it was used to fire at ground targets. "Ball" can fire 32 missiles in one salvo, it has 32 more missiles in its ammunition. He is able to ensure the disruption of the combat mission of a large naval strike group of the enemy, his airborne detachment or convoy.

    https://tass-ru.translate.goog/armiya-i-opk/12697011?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui
    Substantial range increase. Not sure how the designers brought this about. New fuel got it to 350km a decade ago. So maybe this increase is due to reduction in SFC by use of new engine design, better electronics in the nose plus some structural composites in lieu of aluminum

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:46 pm

    Few months ago many were surprised that Su-34 finished tests and integration of the kh-35 on the aircraft.

    Maybe they were talking about this one.

    IMO it will be a bit longer and maybe with stealthier shapes.

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    Arrow

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    Post  Arrow Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:55 pm

    Probably the P 800 has a much greater range than declared. There is talk of a range of over 800km and an increase in speed to 5M on the new fuel.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:19 am

    Perhaps the 120km and 240km range figures were for export missiles and that domestic models might have engine improvements and increased fuel capacities?

    Even that Kh-35E they mention with a 300km range sounds limited to 300km for export.

    Being a jet powered missile I would suspect one way to massively increase range is to make it climb to altitude at the start of its flight... say 10km or so... and then fly to the target area at that altitude and then drop down if you detect enemy radar activity. This would increase flight speed because the air at that altitude is thinner and colder, and lower drag would mean it burns less fuel so it can fly much longer.... flying faster and for longer are the keys to flying further.

    As long as it does not fly along scanning for targets it is not going to be obvious and if the target is a ground target instead of a ship there might not be any radars scanning for incoming missiles... like a terrorist ammo dump in Syria... so it could fly all the way at altitude and have a near vertical dive on the target...

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:Perhaps the 120km and 240km range figures were for export missiles and that domestic models might have engine improvements and increased fuel capacities?
    Yes, but this is not a new missile, rather, it is a new modification of an existing missile with enhanced capabilities.
    The fun begins when one considers why using anti-ship missiles against key enablers ( AWACS , JSTAR) of fleet missile defence should be impossible.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:43 am

    Yes, but this is not a new missile, rather, it is a new modification of an existing missile with enhanced capabilities.

    Yes, I agree it is not a new missile but...

    It is odd because of this:


    "The tests of the new ball missile ballistic missile system carried out in one of the fleets confirmed that its flight range exceeded 500 km, and thanks to the new guidance system, it was able to hit targets on the ground," he said.

    It calls it a ballistic missile system... but I suspect this is a mistake and that the new guidance system uses a ballistic flight profile where it climbs to altitude to increase flight speed and make the jet engine more efficient.

    Against a ship target that would make the missile much easier to detect if the ships radars are scanning for targets so normally the missile flys very low which makes it much harder to detect but also reduces flight range dramatically too.

    Against a ship target not scanning the airspace with radar... trying to not give away its position... or a ground target that likely wont be scanning for threats not wanting to give away its position either an all high flight profile could be used to massively extend range.

    More importantly because of its low flight speed you could actually be rather clever about it.

    Say your long range long wave over the horizon radar detects a group of enemy ships... they will have their radar off so as to not reveal their position or intent, so they will be sneaking forward, the situation for the defence is that they have Onyx missiles with new fuels with a flight range of 800km and a speed of mach 5 or so, but then they have a gap down to 300km or so for their low flying all the way Kh-35U subsonic missiles.

    What they could do is launch the subsonic Kh-35s first but have them fly at high altitude to double their range... but when those subsonic missiles get to the radar horizon of the target ships have them drop down to 3m above the water and attack the targets from very low altitude where they are hard to spot and hard to engage. Launch the high speed missiles at a timed launch... the Onyx missiles cannot fly at high speed at very low altitude because of the denser air and so flying at low altitude they wouldn't go mach 5... they likely wouldn't go much faster than Mach 2.5 so having them come over the radar horizon at mach 5 is a benefit... remember the ships don't have their radars scanning anyway because they are sneaking up trying to be clever... so when the Kh-35s drop down to low altitude they will keep approaching the targets at low level... the fast missiles wont drop down low and will likely trip the defences of the targets who will probably detect them because of their IR signature which will result in them switching on their radar to defend themselves.

    The point is that if they time it correctly they will be facing high speed high altitude diving missile targets, but also low flying anti ship missiles all at the same time and that is assuming they are not a big enough surface ship group to warrant a MiG-31K attack with Kinzhal was not used... maybe the group included landing ships so they defended using Bal and Onyx, while a separate group with two carriers had MiG-31Ks and Daggers blunting their attack.

    The different flight profile extends reach against targets that might not be so well defended or alert including ground targets and perhaps less well protected ships.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:43 pm

    The firing range of the anti-ship missile of the Bal complex has been increased to 500 kilometers

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4417239.html

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