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    Russian Nuclear Deals: News

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    Swgman_BK


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    Post  Swgman_BK Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:45 pm

    And Russia is importing the steam turbines from France for the Turkish nuclear power plants, and from South Korea for the Egyptian ones. Why don't they just order them from Russian companies like Power Machines is beyond me. wrote:

    You make a valid point. But Russia has to conform to the customers demands. As much as Rosatom designs the reactor, external customer can specify which components they want for trust reasons. Eg Su30MKI bieng a Russian design with Israeli and French parts..For other customers Rosatom is using entirely Russian components.
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    Post  lancelot Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:05 pm

    Swgman_BK wrote:You make a valid point. But Russia has to conform to the customers demands. As much as Rosatom designs the reactor, external customer can specify which components they want for trust reasons. Eg Su30MKI bieng a Russian design with Israeli and French parts..For other customers Rosatom is using entirely Russian components.
    Except I never heard of them requesting something like that. At least not Egypt. Maybe Turkey did this.

    Bangladesh is getting Russian steam turbines I think. China is getting Chinese steam turbines. And India used to get Russian steam turbines so they might get them again.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:14 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    There is more than that.
    Russia - first of all - creates a whole structure of high-class education and specialists, locally. Usually, deal with Rosatom is assisted by modern, top class nuclear science. Binding with Russia for nuclear energy means that you will get world's finest nuclear specialists & scientists, and the most advanced technological solutions, for a lesser cost, long-term financing, full support, fuel supplies, and recycling.
    There are only two causes of joining the US nuclear program. One is to get alternative solutions in your hands, to study it and exploit - which is the China case. Or being a vassal state set to subsidize falling apart and partially non existing Murican nuclear sector.

    If Italy wasn't an American and Bruxelles puppet, I would really like to see my country cooperating with Russia on the nuclear sector.

    In the 80s Italy had a couple of nuclear powerplants of different generations, but very good nuclear engineers and physicists and some good research projects. After Chernobyl they closed and cancelled everything.

    You can imagine how could have been annoyed at that time the father of a friend of mine, since he graduated in nuclear engineering just a few years before that... And all of his dreams to work in his favourite fields had to be cancelled (of course a good nuclear engineer has not problem in finding jobs in any other industrial engineering field, but it is not the same


    Now they would have to start again almost from scratch.
    There are only a couple of very small research reactors (but not providing power to the grid)

    https://www.ricercanucleare.enea.it/en/the-department/nuclear-fission-technology-facilities-and-material.html

    And now I believe there is some cooperation to manage some nuclear powerplant abroad, but unfortunately most of the competences in building new powerplants have to be recreated from scratch.

    Possibly after the fall of EU Italy will be able to choose its own partners, even if most of my fellow countrymen have been brainwashed into perceiving Russia as an enemy.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:15 pm

    This means that Russia has a very ecological energy sector. Nuclear energy about 16%, hydroelectric power plants 20% and 50% gas power plants?

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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:42 am

    I know Ukrainians arent the most likeable people in recent times but dont you think that is a bit derogatory? Apes?

    They have been cheer leading and implementing a determined genocide of Russian people and Russian culture... apes don't do that... it is a slight on apes to call them apes.

    Possibly after the fall of EU Italy will be able to choose its own partners, even if most of my fellow countrymen have been brainwashed into perceiving Russia as an enemy.

    The best way to deal with negative stereotypes is to actually work together on a few things....

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    Post  Swgman_BK Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:34 am

    The best way to deal with negative stereotypes is to actually work together on a few things.. wrote:


    Or in Russias case , stay away from the people that dont like you..🤔 Let them keep their negative stereotypes and you keep your resources. Close all forms of diplomacy and live like you dont know they exist. What could Russia ever need form Poland? Sweden? Russia doesnt buy anything from the UK.. A Chinese diplomat put it in words perfectly when he said, "Britain is insignificant to us, We as the Chinese don't consider Britain a competitor in any field and as such their hostility towards us amazes us. It is time they accepted their place in the world as a minor country".. Russia bothers herself with a lot of insignificant European babies ranting about her.. If Poland starts acting up, close your embassy there and pull all sorts of relations you had with Poland. If Poland has a disaster one day, ignore it and let America help them. This strategy works best for Russia..

    Russia really has all she needs to make a mini continent sized economy in Russia. Only the civil sector lacks some indigenous Russian products but all else are sorted..Focusing on this will put Russia in a similar situation to China where China doesn't need Western Qualcomm processors for her phones and can instead use their local SMIC made Kirins on their Chinese Huawei's running a Chinese OS. In this case it becomes easy for China to block out America and her friends and survive alone. Russia can too..

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    Post  lancelot Sun Jan 21, 2024 5:47 pm

    They are going to refurbish a VVER-1000 nuclear power plant to extend its working life from 30 to 60 years.

    This should save a lot of money compared to building a new power plant. The technology to do this life extension is well established (thermal annealing). This sort of procedure was already done at the VVER-1000 at Novovoronezh. But back then only 15 years life extension was possible on the large reactors.

    Rostov NPP modernizes equipment for 6.5 billion rubles
    12 January

    Rostov NPP (a branch of Rosenergoatom Concern JSC) will invest 6.5 billion rubles in equipment modernization in 2024. This was reported by the press service of Rosenergoatom.

    As indicated in the message, the main modernization work will be carried out at power unit No. 1. Preparations have already begun at the facility to extend its service life, which ends in 2030. Upon completion of the work, the operating life of the power unit will be extended for another thirty years.

    This year, it is planned to invest 5.5 billion rubles in the implementation of the modernization program for four power units of the Rostov NPP. Another 1 billion rubles. will be aimed at maintaining the operation of the physical protection equipment of the facility, as well as improving safety.

    As the director of the Rostov NPP Andrey Salnikov said, the work will be carried out during the unit shutdown for scheduled maintenance - every 18 months. It is planned to spend about 2.5-3 billion rubles annually on modernization of the unit.

    The station will operate in this mode until 2030.

    The fact they had to do import substitution in 2024 for components in a nuclear reactor is highly worrying. I suspect this was something that used to be made in Ukraine. After Chernobyl the Soviet Union gave priority to build safer VVERs in Ukraine and these were largely built by local heavy industry. When construction elsewhere began a lot of components from Ukraine were used. Well better later than never.

    Rostov NPP began producing its own parts for equipment
    January 19

    At the Rostov NPP (a branch of Rosenergoatom Concern JSC), during the implementation of the import substitution program in 2023, they launched the production of their own parts for the station equipment. This was reported by the press service of the regional government.

    Components and parts are produced on the basis of the repair section of the centralized repair shop, which was equipped with modern facilities during reconstruction. Over 150 varieties of parts are produced at the station site. These are items that are easy to manufacture, including bushings, axles, and shafts - parts that wear out quickly and regularly need to be replaced.

    As the director of the Rostov NPP Andrey Salnikov noted, parts that the plant does not produce independently are ordered, among other things, from machine-building enterprises in Volgodonsk, which are focused on the production of equipment for nuclear power plants. The policy of import substitution gives nuclear power plants the opportunity to occupy new niches in the market.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:15 am

    In this case it becomes easy for China to block out America and her friends and survive alone. Russia can too..

    Neither country should waste time trying to win over brainwashed hostile countries, they can cooperate together and there are actually an enormous number of other countries out there who would love open free and fair trade with a country that makes all the stuff they used to have to buy from the west.

    We see the west talks about free trade and open markets but they use sanctions and trade agreements to lock in the superiority of their trade ties to other countries to ensure they continue to prosper at the expense of those they trade with.

    Russia and China don't need that.

    I rather suspect Turkey wanted French components to stop too much criticism within HATO regarding them getting nuclear reactors from Russia, and I rather suspect South Korea was probably the same... it is so they can say to their western overlords that they are still buying western over priced shit...

    The fact they had to do import substitution in 2024 for components in a nuclear reactor is highly worrying. I suspect this was something that used to be made in Ukraine. After Chernobyl the Soviet Union gave priority to build safer VVERs in Ukraine and these were largely built by local heavy industry. When construction elsewhere began a lot of components from Ukraine were used. Well better later than never.

    Are you sure?

    As the director of the Rostov NPP Andrey Salnikov noted, parts that the plant does not produce independently are ordered, among other things, from machine-building enterprises in Volgodonsk, which are focused on the production of equipment for nuclear power plants. The policy of import substitution gives nuclear power plants the opportunity to occupy new niches in the market.

    Volgodonsk is Russian, I suspect this is not a case of a NPP working to stop importing parts from foreign countries, but to start making parts that need to be regularly replaced to become self sufficient within the company.
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    Post  lancelot Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:20 am

    GarryB wrote:Volgodonsk is Russian, I suspect this is not a case of a NPP working to stop importing parts from foreign countries, but to start making parts that need to be regularly replaced to become self sufficient within the company.
    I suspect the reactor at Rostov was made with some Ukrainian components. Otherwise they wouldn't talk about import substitution. And now that they are going to increase the lifetime of the reactor they will need to replace damaged or worn out components. So they will import substitute components, and those they cannot manufacture themselves they will order from Volgodonsk which is where Russia makes nuclear reactor vessels and related stuff today for new builds.
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    Post  Arrow Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:40 am

    Apparently, China is the first to have a fully commercial fourth-generation reactor. Although BN-800 can also be considered as generation IV?
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:29 am

    I suspect the reactor at Rostov was made with some Ukrainian components. Otherwise they wouldn't talk about import substitution.

    I think it is either a translation issue or a bit of a lie to get funding allocated to solve import substitution problems.

    They mention they get parts from Volgodonsk which is in Russia and is a Russian company... and the title of the article says Rostov NPP began producing its own parts for equipment

    It is my understanding that the Ukraine doesn't have more or better expertise regarding nuclear technology and I rather doubt they would talk about gaining production independence two years into a war with the Ukraine.

    They say they already make a lot of parts and it reads to me like they are wanting to produce the consumables and parts that require regular replacement in house in the NPP so they don't have to outsource them from another company/factory. In this case I believe the factories and companies are Russian.

    They might be calling it import substitution to get government funds to produce the consumables and often replaced parts themselves... I can't see the Ukraine selling any parts or components to Russia for anything at all... whether it is for nuclear reactors or aircraft or ship engines or rockets.
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    Post  Hole Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:22 pm

    The import substitution propably relates to some sort of pump, valves and other stuff in that category,
    not high-tech items.

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    Post  lancelot Mon Jan 22, 2024 2:40 pm

    Arrow wrote:Apparently, China is the first to have a fully commercial fourth-generation reactor. Although BN-800 can also be considered as generation IV?
    Older sodium fast reactors are not considered "Generation IV". This is more of a label than anything anyway.

    China's reactor is based on a modernized version of the German AVR pebble-bed reactor. Hopefully it will have less issues than the AVR did.

    Russia is currently building the BREST lead cooled fast reactor. This is also a Generation IV reactor.
    https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/First-lead-cooled-fast-neutron-reactor-s-installat

    "Generation IV" is just a catch all term for reactor types which weren't in mainstream use before basically. All of them are supposed to burn up the fuel better, recycle fuel, or operate at higher temperatures than older reactors which should make them more efficient.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:55 am

    Usually when they talk about import substittion they mention the products and countries they come from... French and American engines, British pumps and UUVs etc etc. If you read that article carefully it talks about import substitution but also says it is dealing with that by making the components in house, and that they are doing that with consumable products that need to be replaced, so seals and pumps and things that wear out through normal use.

    Why would they just be starting to replace them in production now if they came from Orc territory, they would have blocked the export of those things in 2014 like they did with armoured vehicle parts and rocket parts and aircraft engines and ship propulsion systems.

    Old style pumps and seals would likely be worth replacing with newer pumps and seals that will likely be more durable and more efficient... and cheaper... do you think the Ukrainians would take Rubles?

    I suspect this is about moving production locally but still inside Russia.
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    Post  lancelot Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:09 am

    The sanctions in 2014 were basically on exports of items which were meant for military use. Military weapons and components to make weapons. So engines for military helicopters, aircraft, ships were banned. Components for civilian applications were not banned and trade continued. Or at least that was how it was supposed to be. There were also sanctions on all trade and financial transactions with Crimea and probably Donbass.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:41 am

    My mistake... seems I was wrong:

    Found this on the Rosatom website:

    https://www.rosenergoatom.ru/en/for-journalists/news/43553/

    05.05.2023  INFORMATION AND PUBLIC RELATIONS DEPARTMENT OF ROSTOV NPP

    More than 150 types of spare parts will be put into production at the Rostov NPP site as part of the import substitution program
    At the Rostov NPP in Volgodonsk, as part of the import substitution program, the production of parts for in-house needs has started on the basis of the renovated centralized repair shop (CRS). In the list of components that were previously purchased abroad, and now they will be manufactured directly at the site of the nuclear power plant, there are already more than 150 items that are not difficult to manufacture - shafts, axles, hubs, valve stems, which are actively used in the repair and maintenance of turbines and pumping equipment.

    “Today, Rosenergoatom pays great attention to import substitution issues, a program has been created, according to which we are moving forward and have already achieved some success. Therefore, to launch the production of spare parts for the needs of the nuclear power plant, the machine park of the centralized repair shop was modernized and updated. The tasks of the design team, which develops the necessary documentation for the manufacture of parts on its own base, were also expanded. This year, we have received all permits and are starting to produce components at our site,” says Andrey Salnikov, director of the Rostov NPP.

    For three years, as part of the modernization of the machine park of mechanical repair shops, the equipment was updated by 111%. Now more than 50 machines are working here, including new ones with functionality that has significantly expanded the possibilities for manufacturing import-substituting spare parts.

    “The program of import substitution on the basis of our own production is being performed by the Department for the preparation and implementation of repairs (DPIR). The divisions of the nuclear power plant form a database of spare parts that will soon need to be replaced. During the repair campaign, the specialists of the design team measure the details and develop drawings. After the design documentation passes the examination and is agreed with the head design organizations, the metal is purchased and, on the basis of mechanical repair shops, they begin high-precision manufacturing of the necessary parts from metal, paronite, cardboard, rubber, graflex and other materials,” said the head of the DPIR Alexey Eremeenko.

    By the end of 2023, it is planned to additionally put into operation a new section at the Rostov NPP - a thermal one, which will also allow annealing, normalization and hardening of metal parts right at the nuclear power plant site. This will not only make it possible to carry out a full cycle of manufacturing parts for equipment repair without sending it for processing to other enterprises, but will also remove dependence on foreign suppliers.

    Today, the Russian industry, including the nuclear power industry, is faced with the goal of providing technological sovereignty and transition to the latest technologies as soon as possible. The state directs significant resources to the accelerated development of the domestic research, infrastructure, scientific and technological base. The introduction of innovations, the policy of import independence and import substitution allows Rosatom, Rosenergoatom to occupy new market niches, increasing the competitiveness of the nuclear industry and the entire Russian industry as a whole.

    The Rostov NPP is a branch of Rosenergoatom (part of the largest division of the State Corporation Rosatom, Electric Power). The enterprise is located on the bank of the Tsimlyansk reservoir, 13.5 km from the city of Volgodonsk. The nuclear power plant operates four power units with nuclear reactors of the PWR-1000 type. Daily power generation by each power unit is about 25 million kWh.

    The share of nuclear generation in the structure of power production in the Rostov region is more than 70%, the United Energy System (UES) of the South - about 30%. The energy system of the South of Russia includes the regional energy systems of the Southern and North Caucasian Federal Districts, located on the territory of nine republics, Stavropol and Krasnodar Territories, Rostov, Volgograd, Astrakhan Regions with a total population of more than 27 million people.

    No mention that any material was sourced from the Ukraine and I rather suspect it would be unlikely to do so. Foreign companies would either be western companies or Asian companies I would guess...


    Last edited by GarryB on Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:49 am

    BTW import substitution is not just hardware:

    A meeting on digitalization of NPP construction processes has been held in Moscow office of ASE JSC (a part of ROSATOM’s Engineering Division). Its main topic was import substitution and use of own digital developments for NPP design and construction, as well as for optimization of internal processes in the Engineering Division.
    The meeting was attended by Alexander Lokshin, First Deputy Director General for Nuclear Energy of ROSATOM, President of ASE JSC, Ekaterina Solntseva, ROSATOM’s Director for Digitalization, Evgeny Abakumov, ROSATOM’s IT Director, managers of NPP construction projects and business functions of the Engineering Division.
    IMG_6692.jpg
    Olga Tostunova, Vice President for Digitalization and IT of ASE JSC, noted in her speech that smooth operation of the Division under sanctions had been ensured: “Equipment pool for NPP was created, operation of services was ensured so that the measures introduced did not go unnoticed for many people. In 2022, the process of import substitution for work places will be continued - more than three thousand employees will transfer to domestic office software. For achievement of our goals of contractual obligations fulfillment as regards the digital field and enhancement of internal efficiency owing to use of digital solutions, import substitution is the reality: nowadays digital tools are becoming our production tools.”
    For the time being, import substitution in the Engineering Division has been completed as regards 2D-design; by 2023, software for 3D-design will be substituted. In addition, our own digital product Multi-D Project is currently implemented at the site of Kursk-2 NPP. It allows automatic issue of weekly and daily tasks directly to construction brigades and work performance monitoring.
    By the end of 2023, it is planned to complete substitution of imported engineering data management systems. About 95% of foreign software will be replaced with domestic analogs already by 2025. The most long-term horizon of three years is related to transfer to a completely import-independent enterprise management system (ERP).
    “Sanctions by foreign suppliers of software have not stopped the work on NPP design and construction, moreover, they have sped up import substitution processes in the Engineering Division. The company has a general understanding of what to do in the current situation, how long the transfer to import-independent software will last, how complicated it will be and where our bottle necks are. Therefore, we will work calmly to solve the established tasks”, Alexander Lokshin summarized.

    https://www.rosatom.ru/en/press-centre/news/rosatom-s-engineering-division-expedites-import-substitution-in-npp-design-and-construction-processe/?sphrase_id=5043829
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    Post  Arrow Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:22 am

    hina's reactor is based on a modernized version of the German AVR pebble-bed reactor. Hopefully it will have less issues than the AVR did. Russia is currently building the BREST lead cooled fast reactor. This is also a Generation IV reactor. wrote:

    So Russia is working on more advanced nuclear reactors than China? They are still the world leader in nuclear reactor technologies.
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    Post  kvs Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:57 pm

    https://eprimefeed.com/latest-news/the-rostov-nuclear-power-plant-has-taken-the-path-of-import-substitution-kxan-36-daily-news/282952/

    The original post with the Rostov NPP news should have included the links.

    The management at Rostov got a clear signal in 2014 with the ban on turbines from Kharkov. But instead of fully import substituting they
    went out looking for foreign suppliers. It seems that they did not fully 5th column themselves so they can now adapt. But it is still a case
    of them scrambling after 2 years of war.

    There is a lot of such management rot in Russia like in the rest of the world. The path of least resistance is always chosen. Strategic thinking
    is either rare or outright deprecated. People who worship the mythical self interest driven market are idiots. The market decision process
    does not optimize anything optimally.

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    Post  lancelot Tue Jan 23, 2024 2:53 pm

    That article has more information thanks. Yeah I should have included the links.

    If we are talking about the steam turbines used to generate power for the nuclear reactor, a lot used to be built in Ukraine in Soviet times. However Power Machines also has its own production. They have older high-speed steam turbines and the latest low-speed steam turbines which will be used in Kursk II. The new low-speed steam turbines are competitive with the French ones like the Arabelle low-speed steam turbine. These steam turbines should be both more efficient and more reliable than older high-speed types.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 24, 2024 2:59 am

    To be fair making everything yourself is expensive and if you can get bushes and screws and nuts and nails and other fasteners and bits and pieces off the shelf from some Asian company that mass produces them in enormous numbers it made some sense to do so...

    But obviously when the enemy is the west and it starts thrashing around looking for way to cause you problems and hurt you then it makes sense to spend the time and money to make everything yourself.


    So Russia is working on more advanced nuclear reactors than China? They are still the world leader in nuclear reactor technologies.

    You need to keep perspective dude... even if China had fully automated reactors that were the most advanced in the world, the new Russian reactors that burn through their own waste and waste from other older reactors and can turn spent fuel into enriched fuel ready to generate power in an old and new reactor are going to be much better even if you have to wind them up twice a day like an old pocket watch.

    The new reactors deal with the nuclear waste issues and also make clean renewable energy which unlike solar and wind is reliable 24/7 all year round no matter what the season.

    It is essentially what the west is trying to chase with fusion energy...
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    Post  Swgman_BK Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:19 pm

    Russia leading in the nuclear sector is good for Russia but it's not an indefinitely growing industry. There comes a point where you can build a certain amount of reactors before everyone's energy requirements are met.. But if Russia could price their breeder reactors well they could have over half the African continent and Asia in their back pockets. Currently Rosatom is sitting on $200 Bn worth of nuclear reactor contracts.. 22 I believe all over the world. And most of those are in the same country. Imagine building 80 VVER1200 reactors in over 30 countries.. That's easily $300 Bn added to the Russian economy over 4-6 years.

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    Post  lancelot Fri Jan 26, 2024 10:06 pm

    These are long term contracts. It typically takes eight years to build a reactor. And the end user doesn't start paying back the bulk of the loan until the reactor starts generating power to the grid. Repayment is done in like a twenty year period with 3-5% interest. It is an ok business but not going to generate massive returns. It is just a way to fund the Russian nuclear industry and gain some sort of influence and prestige really.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:16 am

    The huge advantage Russia has is they can go from empty unused land to a fully working nuclear reactor, they can supply the fuel and take away any waste that that reactor can create over the life of that reactor.

    You don't need to deal with anyone else, you don't need to worry about sanctions from Russia.

    You get electricity... you can also get heat and also fresh water thrown in depending on what your needs are and they can provide loans for you to afford it.

    When the station starts producing power you can use the income it generates to start payments for the whole set up.

    Stable reliable power guaranteed for x number of years... and Russia will train your people to manage and operate it yourselves.

    Western companies would not offer training and would probably charge you three or four times more, plus demand that all nuclear waste be dumped in your country including waste from their own reactors too.

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    Russian Nuclear Deals: News - Page 18 Empty Re: Russian Nuclear Deals: News

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      Current date/time is Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:17 am