Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

Austin wrote:"Ilyushin" develop a passenger version of the Il-96-400T
January 13, 2016 Maxim Pyadushkin

http://www.ato.ru/content/ilyushin-razrabotaet-passazhirskuyu-versiyu-il-96-400t

The company "Ilyushin" plans to develop a new wide-body passenger modification of the Il-96. "We go out with a proposal to launch the initiative on the basis of the Il-96-400 passenger aircraft," - said the January 13 General Director Sergey Velmozhkin.

The original version of Il-96-400T designed as a cargo version of the basic passenger version of IL-96-300 is distinguished by its extended 9.6 m fuselage, an increase of 20 tonnes maximum take-off weight (270 tons) and more powerful engines PS-90A1.

It was built four such aircraft, three of which were operated until 2013 the airline "Polet" has ceased its activities. Two of the existing board of this type is converted to an air control point Il-96-400VPU first ready. Two more aircraft will be converted into tankers Il-96-400TZ.

According Velmozhkina, the contract for this work with the Ministry of Defence has already been signed. "But the question is still at the stage of presentation of evidence that IL-96 can be used as a tanker," - he explained.

For the passenger version, some components of the IL-96-400 will be upgraded, but the aircraft to maintain the current PS-90 engines. At the same time discusses the use of this modification of the new PD-14 engine, which is designed for single-aisle aircraft MS-21.

Representatives of "Ilyushin" say the fuel efficiency that four-engine plane will be at the western analogues. Make of IL-96 twin-engine car will be if Russia will be developed by the engine thrust of 32-35 tons, the company stressed.

As previously stated by representatives of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), in the development plans of the family PD-14 is the creation of a traction engine, but the timing of its development has not yet been determined.

Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

KiloGolf wrote:

Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

sepheronx wrote:It was mentioned long before either you two joined the forums but essentially boeing lobbied aeroflot to dump the Il-96 in favor of the 747 and such.  There is documentation somewhere on this forums about how the take off costs of il-96 was actually less than that of the airbus jet that replaced it.  Even maintenance cost too.  But of course, they didnt have a powerful lobby.

RedJasmin wrote:Boeing have been doing it for decades and are much more experienced at it than UAC, who prior to the Soviet collapse never had to compete in quite the same way.

KiloGolf wrote:

RedJasmin wrote:Boeing have been doing it for decades and are much more experienced at it than UAC, who prior to the Soviet collapse never had to compete in quite the same way.

In a sense they had a good ride between the 50s and late 80s and like many other western aero companies in the field that ceased to exist in the 90s. We all fly Boeing or Airbus and that is it, add some Regionals and props. USSR allies were only buying from them (An-, Il- and Tu-) with no competition and I am sure the requested pricing did involve a lot of "finger twisting" of the client! But you are right, in terms of 00s and 10s capitalism UAC is very much behind and could either try and fit in niche markets (see SSJ, Ru gov or local companies) or risk everything on a commercial wide-body and loose it all.

There'a good example of a western company CityJet, basing a lot of its operation in London small business airport (City) and they replace the venerable BAe 146 (Avro RJ) with SSJ (15 of them iirc). This plane will fly mostly a business crowd in nearby European airports. It's a good sign how niche markets can work out for UAC.

wilhelm wrote:
Boeing lobbied the US Import Export Bank to end financing on the upgraded M/T version of the Il-96. This was "resolved" when Aeroflot ordered Boeings worth half a billion dollars with a tax exemption from the Russian government. When a further order of Boeings was not granted a tax exemption, quite rightfully as they weren't part of the original agreement, Boeing once again lobbied and placed pressure on the finances, and the upgraded Il-96 financing was cancelled.

Big_Gazza wrote:

wilhelm wrote:
Boeing lobbied the US Import Export Bank to end financing on the upgraded M/T version of the Il-96. This was "resolved" when Aeroflot ordered Boeings worth half a billion dollars with a tax exemption from the Russian government. When a further order of Boeings was not granted a tax exemption, quite rightfully as they weren't part of the original agreement, Boeing once again lobbied and placed pressure on the finances, and the upgraded Il-96 financing was cancelled.

Boeings "lobbying" to undermine a potential foreign competitor is clearly a corrupt practise, but since by definition the "free" Western world is considered "free" of corruption, this sort of unethical behaviour is ignored by the Masters of the Universe, and even encouraged by the usual Russophobes embedded in our Deep State elite.

wilhelm wrote: It's basically extortion and blackmail.

KiloGolf wrote:

Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

sepheronx wrote:It was cheaper to operate.  Ilyushin just didnt have a suitcase full if money to bribe the right people.

Now? They dont need it, as the west did all the hard work for Ilyushin.  Now they just need to modernize the avionics and engines, use the extended version of the plane, and they will have a wide body aircraft that will work fine and be both less costly, beneficial for donestic enterprise/workers and safer since spare parts are made at home.

Militarov wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.

KiloGolf wrote:

Militarov wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.

It's both. If you have a wide-body where the only tech-ops/repair center in a few spots within Russia, then it makes it uneconomical for a company that is based in South America or Africa and want to fly to Australia, Dubai or the US. Low numbers operating makes spare parts more expensive, as the world-wide stock is literally non-existant.

What Russia should do with these wide-bodies is exert diplomatic influence to the furthest extent to ex-USSR countries first (Belarus, Kazakhstan) and then open itself to Africa and Central and S. America (Peru, Mexico, etc.). Airbus A340 is a great example of a product that when acquired by certain airliners (not all), no thought process on its performance was given. It was pure politics, same for A380 if you discount Emirates/Etihad and Qatar.

If UAC can't secure a good 100+ orders before launching the program, then they should not proceed.
Also they should make sure either GE or RR is on-board. Otherwise few serious clients will care. In the long-haul game you ought to use one of the big boys for various reasons, reliability, support all over the world, cost.

wilhelm wrote:I see in an earlier post, someone mooted the possibility of a twin engined Il-96 with one of the new more powerful engines likely to be developed.
Is that possible with the current landing gear and wing? I get the impression such an engine, with larger fan, would require a redesign of either the wing (for a different engine placement) or a longer landing gear (for ground clearance).

EDIT: Actually, looking at pictures, they could go the Boeing 777 route with a shorter engine pylon, so it can probably be quite easily achieved with the current landing gear and wing.

PapaDragon wrote:
Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots.


ALSO:

Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/

PapaDragon wrote:
Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots.


ALSO:

Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/

Militarov wrote:

sepheronx wrote:It was cheaper to operate.  Ilyushin just didnt have a suitcase full if money to bribe the right people.

Now? They dont need it, as the west did all the hard work for Ilyushin.  Now they just need to modernize the avionics and engines, use the extended version of the plane, and they will have a wide body aircraft that will work fine and be both less costly, beneficial for donestic enterprise/workers and safer since spare parts are made at home.

Actually reason also might be small fleet, imagine having to obtain spares and maintenance from IL, Boeing, Airbus and whoever else, its expected that IL would get cut down due to fact they had small number of them and spares were probably more expencive due to fact they often were produced per piece, unlike for 737 for an example whos parts are produced in thousands, even tho maybe operating them was cheaper.

Well it still requires fairly big changes to the design due to probably? new engines etc and avionics etc. Hopefully i get to fly it one day.

RedJasmin wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots.


ALSO:

Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/

Agreed, great photography, and nice to see the factory floor so full

What surprised me, was that the IL-76 is still being built with the glass nose. I  would have thought that with modern avionics it would have been deemed redundant and deleted to save weight / simplify construction etc.