Russian VSHORADS Thread

GarryB wrote:I suspect the Sosna will be replacing most twin 23mm towed mounts, though I think they will hang on to them after seeing first hand how useful such weapons are in Syria... in Afghanistan the Soviets used twin barrel 23mm cannon mounts as base protection, they certainly were valuable in that war...

Hole wrote:Sosna will replace Strela-10.

Gibka-S will replace some of the hand-held Iglas and Verbas. The rest will be transported by Taifun-PVO.

The ZU-23 will stay. Forever!  It is a last resort weapon. And just to versatile, as GarryB said.

МОСКВА, 21 апреля. /ТАСС/. Машины разведки и управления для новейшего комплекса противовоздушной обороны (ПВО) "Гибка-С" могут поступить в войска уже в 2021 году. Об этом сообщили ТАСС в понедельник в пресс-службе холдинга "Росэлектроника" (входит в Ростех).

Как уточнили в холдинге, испытания машины разведки и управления (МРУ) завершились в конце прошлого года в составе комплекса ПВО "Гибка-С". Испытания прошли успешно, по их итогам был получен ряд рекомендаций от Министерства обороны, направленных на повышение эффективности комплекса.

"Сейчас разработчик МРУ - НПП "Рубин" (входит в концерн "Вега") - ведет работу по внедрению этих рекомендаций в конструкцию, и параллельно началась подготовка к серийному производству. Рассчитываем, что уже в следующем году мы поставим заказчику установочную партию машин", - приводит пресс-служба слова генерального директора Концерна "Вега" (входит в "Росэлектронику") Вячеслава Михеева.

The complex itself is located on the chassis of the Tiger armored car (VPK-233116) and allows you to fire at various types of air targets, including when the car is moving at speeds up to 30 km / h. “Gibka-S” provides for the destruction of air targets using missiles of the Verba and Igla / Igla-S portable anti-aircraft missile systems. The launch of missiles is carried out remotely. Additionally, the installation can use ATGM "Attack".

https://topwar.ru/170448-nazvany-sroki-postuplenija-v-vojska-mashiny-upravlenija-kompleksa-pvo-gibka-s.html

Hole wrote:This is the mobile version of Igla/Verba. Its main purpopse is to guard marching columns/convois or ponton bridges against some stray drone/helicopter/cruise missile that somehow managed to get trough all the S-300V/Buk/Tor/Tunguska/Derivatsia/Sosna systems. No need for a large amount of ready to fire missiles.

magnumcromagnon wrote:I still feel their's justifiable criticism of Gibka-S, the same I had for Pine/Sosna-R; With Pine and it's short range set to 10km (for Gibka-S is limited by Verba's max range of 6.5km) so it has to make up for it with greater amount of missiles, but Pine/Sosna-R at least has 12 ready to fire missiles, but Gibka-S only has a measly 4 missiles.

GarryB wrote:This is an RPG-7 for air defence... it is a cheap simple light vehicle that can take down threats when needed.

It wont be used on its own and ideally would be allocated targets to engage from a command vehicle.

They could fit a lot of missiles in the rear so I doubt lack of missiles would be a problem... most enemies will run out of aircraft before Russia runs out of anti aircraft missiles.

@ Lsos... that is an interesting idea regarding the AAMs modified for use from light ground vehicles... there are plenty of countries around the world with fighter planes and a store of missiles that would benefit from using the AAMs as makeshift SAMs... especially if they can be made in to effective SAMs.

Even old R-3 and R-13 missiles could be used as well as R-60MK models that were exported widely.

The R-73 would certainly be the most potent but even the IR guided models of the R-27 family could be used.

A modest size solid rocket booster could be used to get the missile airborne and moving towards its target so ground launching does not take too much performance away from the missiles...

Putting them on a very mobile platform like a trailer launcher with a decent IR based sensor module to find targets a bit like the system on the Kornet-EM and their new SAMs like Pine should allow targets to be detected and monitored from useful distances...

Small missiles like the R-60 should be still rather useful in relatively close and once they are used up you could buy Igla-S or Verba to replace them in the system.

For old R-3 and R-13 stocks you could probably set up several sets at a time to increase lethality on different trailers located around the place, while any R-73s and R-27Ts could reach up to decent altitudes against planes that normally think they are safe from ground fire... though you would need to be rather careful in that regard as civilian airliners would be at risk, but then also enemy troop transports and inflight refuelling aircraft and even command aircraft and AWACS...

They could modify the system to replace the existing seekers to allow command guidance options to improve performance against well protected targets... and of course they have a whole backlog of SAMs they could sell... SA-9, SA-13, SA-8 etc that all have the potential to reach a little further than MANPADS and carry a heavier warhead too but could probably be provided cheaply...

flamming_python wrote:Maybe Russia just figured that it needs a direct replacement for the Strela-1; a light wheeled SAM platform that can keep up with recon vehicles whether on roads, or off-road fording some river or whatever.

The Strela-10 and Sosna-R are really more for embedding with tracked elements and slower vehicles.

Isos wrote:That issues can be solved with a booster. It would bring the missile at same speeds as when launched by jets.

Your numbers are max ranges and achieved at very high launch speed and high altitude. An AMRAAM or R-77-1 launched from low altitude and lower speeds won't have 100+km range but more like 50km i.e the same as would the same missile have with a booster and launched from the ground.

Hole wrote:To convert AAM´s to SAM´s would only be useful if you (country X) don´t have any SAM systems. For Russia it would be superfluous.

One plus of russian AAM´s are their different seeker heads (at least up to the R-27). Could be a good idea to fit a IR seeker to a Buk-M3 missile.

Yes, you could add the booster to prolong range, but it will also increase the price of missile. I don't think, that R-77-1 is much cheaper than 9M317M missile from Buk-M3 or 9M96 from S-350 and even with booster it will not reach their capabilities. With those two missiles and soon also cheap Pantsir-SM missile, there is no need to place this AAM to SAM role, specially when even air force fighter jets doesn't have enough of them in stocks. Actually the opposite would be better option. Just think to place long range 9M96E2 missile with around 150 km range on a fighter jet like Su-35 or Su-57. How much would range be prolonged, when launched from high altitude and high speed? And their capabilities to engage agile or very fast targets.