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97 posters

    Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:34 am

    As pointed out by Podlodka77 the upgrade consisted of replacing the 20 tubes for Granits with ten UKSK launchers, each UKSK launcher can carry up to 8 missiles, so ten launchers means 80 missiles... but that includes anti ship and land attack and anti sub missile options so it is very unlikely to carry only Zircons or only Calibrs or only Otvets (anti sub weapons).

    The SAMs include replacing long range (S-300F) and short range (naval TOR and naval Pantsir missiles).

    The original ships carried 96 x S-300 type missiles and about 64 naval TOR missiles together with 6 Kashtan gun/missile mounts with about 32 missiles each.

    That adds up to 96 plus 64 plus 192, which is just over 350... most of which are short range point defence missiles.

    Now the old missiles are rather big and could be replaced with smaller more compact weapons that could be carried in much greater numbers... the naval TOR system for instance could be doubled to 128 simply by using the new missiles that are half the size and with better performance and range (15km vs 12km and 16 ready to use missiles instead of 8 on the ground vehicle version.)

    We know the upgraded ship will be carrying 80 anti ship or anti sub or land attack missiles in 80 tubes, but we don't really have any concrete numbers or types for SAMs.

    They might even have a laser system for defeating drones within 5km or so like they have on land... and brand new mini SAMs they are developing that are designed to be carried in enormous numbers to defend against artillery or swarm attacks might not take forever to develop...

    thegopnik and TMA1 like this post

    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:15 am

    Garry, just one correction as the 3K95 "Kinzhal" system was only set to "Peter the Great".
    The first three ships had a total of 40 missiles for the Osa-M air defense system in 2X2 launch systems. I, on the other hand, mistakenly doubled the number of missiles for "Kinzhal".

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    Hole
    Hole


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    Post  Hole Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:39 pm

    Adm. Nakhimov (formerly known as Kalinin) had Kinzhal and Osa-M.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:10 pm

    Hole wrote:Adm. Nakhimov (formerly known as Kalinin) had Kinzhal and Osa-M.


    No, only on Peter the Great..
    https://orel-tara.ru/drugoe/petr-velikij-atomnyj-krejser.html
    "SAM Kinzhal
    Unlike other ships of Project 1144, the Peter the Great TARKR was equipped with the Kinzhal complex. The new air defense system is noticeably superior in its performance characteristics to the obsolete Osa-MA system."
    Only free space was left on the other ships for 3K95 Kinzhal but system was not installed.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:34 am

    The naval tor system replaced the obsolete SS-N-14 anti sub system... they used torpedo tube launched SS-N-15 or 16 I think to replace them, so the space freed up was fitted with naval TOR missiles

    OSA is certainly obsolete... but not a obsolete as the Sea Cat or Sea Slug SAMs were in the early 1980s in the Falklands conflict... they can still shoot down low flying subsonic threats effectively enough.

    TOR are significantly better... and the newer TOR even more so.

    The core point is that the Kirovs were huge partly because all the weapons they had to carry, but also because of the enormous amount of computing power they fitted inside it because it was going to be a command flagship managing the battle.

    With upgraded electronics and systems... even a desktop computer from the late 1990s ( 166Khz pentium level processors) could replace mainframe computers from the 70s and 80s that were likely fitted to the ships... these days a cell phone has more processing power... not to mention air conditioning systems and other equipment is much smaller and more effective and efficient. Power cables haven't changed much but fibreoptic cables carry vastly more information over much thinner cables...

    It would actually be rather fun to look at a Kirov class ship design and look at how things are now smaller and how you could re pack them to free up vast amounts of space for more weapons and of course automating many procedures and systems would mean a dramatic reduction in crew size allowing better comfort and more onboard food supplies for longer more comfortable journeys.

    Better sensors and equipment and new things like optical jammers and lasers for shooting down small drones... and indeed the facitilies to launch and recover small drones of the sub surface, surface, and airborne variety...

    Also the opportunity to test new weapons that the new destroyers and new crusiers might be using... remove the old 100mm guns or the twin 130mm guns depending on the model and put in a 152mm gun mount for testing. Try some radar controlled 57mm guns with air burst and guided rounds... upgrade the propulsion to test electric motors... test new nuke NPPs... spend money now to save money down the track.

    If the gun fitted to the Zumwalt had been fitted to a normal destroyer they could have tested it and worked out the bugs and could have saved some embarrassment further down the track... testing all new stuff in a single ship makes trouble shooting thousands of different interrelated problems all at once almost impossible.

    Proven components linking together is enough trouble shooting... don't make it worse with unproven components all going together for the first time.

    Big_Gazza, JohninMK, thegopnik and Podlodka77 like this post


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