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Syria will be split apart before it falls. So the guy will have a job to do in Assad controlled Syria. Syria was in worst spot earlier. But this is a joke that NDF and SAA let Palmyra fall like that. May not have been strategic, but still.
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Syrian Civil War: News #10
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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Join date : 2016-11-06
VladimirSahin- Posts : 408
Points : 424
Join date : 2013-11-29
Age : 33
Location : Florida
SeigSoloyvov wrote:VladimirSahin wrote:You know if there's a time for criticism now is the time. The NDF and SAA are a bunch of fuck offs. How do you push ISIS 7 kilometers away last night but withdraw from it the day after? Scared of casualties? Fucking imbeciles.
They could have overstretched and made themselves vulnerable, ISIS could have lured them out that far into a trap or They think "Well let them take the city and consolidate forces there so we can bomb them.
NDF and SAA aren't a force I'd rely on, only a few units among them are decent. You just know Putin doesn't like the fact this is what he has to work wit.h.
My question is how in the fuck do you do this and leave tanks and vehicles behind for them. That is beyond absurd they have been fighting long enough to learn some things this is just sad.
I agree. Least they could have done was defend the city. Looks like the Russian forces pulled out after they realized the pussies at the NDF retreated.
Vann7- Posts : 5385
Points : 5485
Join date : 2012-05-16
As i told a millions times .. Russian military is not fighting terrorist in Syria with the correct weapons and or tactics. ISIS goes and can move 4,000 terrorist across a desert without being
stopped. Russian combat jets is not ideal to deal with very dispersed groups across a desert moving fast in moto or pickups. This is because is very limited the number of bombs any plane can do.. IF you have for example 4,000 terrorist withing 300 meters of distance of each other.
then the best Russian weapons could do in Syria and its cruise missiles is kill 1 or 2 or with luck 3 terrorist per bomb . So if Russia have 20 combat planes in Syria, and each one can carry 6 bombs. then than live us with 20x6 = from 120 to 240 terrorist and with a little luck 300 terrorist from 4000. So if the terrorist are well organized by NATO their tactics and with lethal portable weapons , then they can over run any city in theory with the right conditions like heavy fog and with suicide bombers in little time.
So this is why Russia needs desperately to get Attack drones in BIG numbers ,and that are as cheap as possible ,and that can fire missiles like hellfire. so even if ISIS over run a position anywhere specially in open terrain it will not matter much ,since the guns will not be on the land, but in air. this is so simple thing to understand. The goal of ISIS is to take down quickly any fighting capability of the enemy in any zone . But if you move those weapon to air away of their reach ,then all this rush to take place will not be very effective. So they will need to seek cover all the time and unable to move fast. Artillery is not either always effective to target either very dispersed forces in big numbers charging at you from all sides. Because artillery can be over run. contrary to an attack drone that you can't over run. Once the artillery is over run ,then you lose your offensive capability. and here is the point. You cannot over run an attack drone it will stand there away of terrorist range . Manpads range is 5km altitude ,most expensive ones 7km. and american attack drones are way difficult to shot down by normal manpads. you need very modern and expensive ones for that ,that will cost any government a fortune each. So the ideal weapon for a fight in palmyra with be attack drones and attack drones and more attack drones. But also tanks with automatic gun targeting. something that Syria do not have. just a few dozen T-90 Russia have in Syria.
After this successful attack in Palmyra ,i see a major danger for latakia ,Because Putin is eating
shit , and not understanding what kind of lethal tactics are possible if you have endless waves of
crazy fanatics who do not care to die armed by NATO. Cruise missiles Putin should put it on his ass , because thats the most retarded thing they can do , is very expensive and and is not ideal to target soft targets. At best it will kill 3 to 5 terrorist per hit. for a missile that Russia can sell for a million of dollars. Russia simply needs to change its tactics to counter very fast and mobile forces that wants to die in combat and will never stop advancing ,and that use heavily suicide bomber pickup trucks with lethal explosives .If you look at all the videos in Syria the most impressive explosions and most powerful ones of all ,comes always all of them from suicide bombers in heavy trucks. And not from Russian bombs.
So either Russia deploys lots of Attack drones 30 to 50 with hellfire like missiles in Syria .
combined with many T-72b3 tanks another 50 or 100. or else they will continue to be humiliated there and we will continue to see this very fast assaults taking control of cities
withing a day ,and later lost months to retake it back. Attack drones are not effective only when the enemy have counter electronics and good airdefenses , but against terrorist? Attack drones will be a major pain in the ass for terrorist because they are silent and if used correctly they can't be shot down by guerrilla fighters.
if Russia had predator like drones in the 30 to 50 in Syria , bombing those terrorist advancing in the desert will be shooting gallery. They are designed to target big numbers of soft dispersed targets.
stopped. Russian combat jets is not ideal to deal with very dispersed groups across a desert moving fast in moto or pickups. This is because is very limited the number of bombs any plane can do.. IF you have for example 4,000 terrorist withing 300 meters of distance of each other.
then the best Russian weapons could do in Syria and its cruise missiles is kill 1 or 2 or with luck 3 terrorist per bomb . So if Russia have 20 combat planes in Syria, and each one can carry 6 bombs. then than live us with 20x6 = from 120 to 240 terrorist and with a little luck 300 terrorist from 4000. So if the terrorist are well organized by NATO their tactics and with lethal portable weapons , then they can over run any city in theory with the right conditions like heavy fog and with suicide bombers in little time.
So this is why Russia needs desperately to get Attack drones in BIG numbers ,and that are as cheap as possible ,and that can fire missiles like hellfire. so even if ISIS over run a position anywhere specially in open terrain it will not matter much ,since the guns will not be on the land, but in air. this is so simple thing to understand. The goal of ISIS is to take down quickly any fighting capability of the enemy in any zone . But if you move those weapon to air away of their reach ,then all this rush to take place will not be very effective. So they will need to seek cover all the time and unable to move fast. Artillery is not either always effective to target either very dispersed forces in big numbers charging at you from all sides. Because artillery can be over run. contrary to an attack drone that you can't over run. Once the artillery is over run ,then you lose your offensive capability. and here is the point. You cannot over run an attack drone it will stand there away of terrorist range . Manpads range is 5km altitude ,most expensive ones 7km. and american attack drones are way difficult to shot down by normal manpads. you need very modern and expensive ones for that ,that will cost any government a fortune each. So the ideal weapon for a fight in palmyra with be attack drones and attack drones and more attack drones. But also tanks with automatic gun targeting. something that Syria do not have. just a few dozen T-90 Russia have in Syria.
After this successful attack in Palmyra ,i see a major danger for latakia ,Because Putin is eating
shit , and not understanding what kind of lethal tactics are possible if you have endless waves of
crazy fanatics who do not care to die armed by NATO. Cruise missiles Putin should put it on his ass , because thats the most retarded thing they can do , is very expensive and and is not ideal to target soft targets. At best it will kill 3 to 5 terrorist per hit. for a missile that Russia can sell for a million of dollars. Russia simply needs to change its tactics to counter very fast and mobile forces that wants to die in combat and will never stop advancing ,and that use heavily suicide bomber pickup trucks with lethal explosives .If you look at all the videos in Syria the most impressive explosions and most powerful ones of all ,comes always all of them from suicide bombers in heavy trucks. And not from Russian bombs.
So either Russia deploys lots of Attack drones 30 to 50 with hellfire like missiles in Syria .
combined with many T-72b3 tanks another 50 or 100. or else they will continue to be humiliated there and we will continue to see this very fast assaults taking control of cities
withing a day ,and later lost months to retake it back. Attack drones are not effective only when the enemy have counter electronics and good airdefenses , but against terrorist? Attack drones will be a major pain in the ass for terrorist because they are silent and if used correctly they can't be shot down by guerrilla fighters.
if Russia had predator like drones in the 30 to 50 in Syria , bombing those terrorist advancing in the desert will be shooting gallery. They are designed to target big numbers of soft dispersed targets.
Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:42 pm; edited 3 times in total
PapaDragon
PapaDragon- Posts : 13451
Points : 13491
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
Vann, just STFU already.
How someone can type all those walls of BS and always end up with variation of the same crap is beyond me. It's like those chicks with no sex life who type fan fiction on Tumblr.
Just put a sock in it.
auslander- Posts : 1637
Points : 1715
Join date : 2015-04-25
Some of you chair borne warriors are a hoot. No army is omnipotent nor is any one weapon omnipotent. Reverses happen and here y'all are crying the blues as if Brand X was pounding on your house or flat door and you are taking as gospel truth images of abandoned equipment and vehicles posted on some twitter, titter, schmitter or shitter account. Get real. FFS, the same child has been listed on titter 3 different times in three different cities as being 'rescued' by everyone's faithful and reliable charity group, white derbies. And you believe what is posted on shitter or any other 'social media'? Jesus Keeriste on a crutch, calm down. When you hear Mother's MoD screaming then it's time to worry. Until the good Tovarich General screams you ain't got nothin' to worry about. If any of you think you can do better, nothing is stopping you from highing your young butts over to Damascus and volunteering to have at the bad guys.
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
Points : 2461
Join date : 2015-09-01
Location : Macedonia, Hellas
auslander wrote:Some of you chair borne warriors are a hoot. No army is omnipotent nor is any one weapon omnipotent. Reverses happen and here y'all are crying the blues as if Brand X was pounding on your house or flat door and you are taking as gospel truth images of abandoned equipment and vehicles posted on some twitter, titter, schmitter or shitter account. Get real. FFS, the same child has been listed on titter 3 different times in three different cities as being 'rescued' by everyone's faithful and reliable charity group, white derbies. And you believe what is posted on shitter or any other 'social media'? Jesus Keeriste on a crutch, calm down. When you hear Mother's MoD screaming then it's time to worry. Until the good Tovarich General screams you ain't got nothin' to worry about. If any of you think you can do better, nothing is stopping you from highing your young butts over to Damascus and volunteering to have at the bad guys.
Palmyra is becoming the Kharkov of this war.
Anyhow, the winner is at Aleppo, Palmyra is a flippin sideshow.
Vann7- Posts : 5385
Points : 5485
Join date : 2012-05-16
PapaDragon wrote:
Vann, just STFU already.
How someone can type all those walls of BS and always end up with variation of the same crap is beyond me. It's like those chicks with no sex life who type fan fiction on Tumblr.
Just put a sock in it.
Just put me on ignore list.. i don't care what you think. thanks bye.
Vann7- Posts : 5385
Points : 5485
Join date : 2012-05-16
KiloGolf wrote:auslander wrote:Some of you chair borne warriors are a hoot. No army is omnipotent nor is any one weapon omnipotent. Reverses happen and here y'all are crying the blues as if Brand X was pounding on your house or flat door and you are taking as gospel truth images of abandoned equipment and vehicles posted on some twitter, titter, schmitter or shitter account. Get real. FFS, the same child has been listed on titter 3 different times in three different cities as being 'rescued' by everyone's faithful and reliable charity group, white derbies. And you believe what is posted on shitter or any other 'social media'? Jesus Keeriste on a crutch, calm down. When you hear Mother's MoD screaming then it's time to worry. Until the good Tovarich General screams you ain't got nothin' to worry about. If any of you think you can do better, nothing is stopping you from highing your young butts over to Damascus and volunteering to have at the bad guys.
Palmyra is becoming the Kharkov of this war.
Anyhow, the winner is at Aleppo, Palmyra is a flippin sideshow.
Indeed Aleppo and IDlib are more important than Palmyra , but Russia cannot continue
using their mediocre tactics . Because NATO is very desperate for a win ,and could start providing terrorist with more lethal weapons and lots of armor . If Russia don't have a big army in Syria or start using attack drones in big numbers, their airforce number will not handle a candle there when facing big numbers of terrorist assault that move fast ,that are very dispersed. Is a mathematical thing.
is all mathematics , If your airforce only can drop 300 bombs at any time . and you face 600 dispersed terrorist that will prefer to die than retreat, then that place will be at big risk of being over run with the right weather conditions ,negating artillery range. Indeed Russia will need to take more seriously the war in Syria , because any tactic that works there for the terrorist, will be used by NATO against Russia in any major war against them.
Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
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Location : Macedonia, Hellas
Vann7 wrote:KiloGolf wrote:auslander wrote:Some of you chair borne warriors are a hoot. No army is omnipotent nor is any one weapon omnipotent. Reverses happen and here y'all are crying the blues as if Brand X was pounding on your house or flat door and you are taking as gospel truth images of abandoned equipment and vehicles posted on some twitter, titter, schmitter or shitter account. Get real. FFS, the same child has been listed on titter 3 different times in three different cities as being 'rescued' by everyone's faithful and reliable charity group, white derbies. And you believe what is posted on shitter or any other 'social media'? Jesus Keeriste on a crutch, calm down. When you hear Mother's MoD screaming then it's time to worry. Until the good Tovarich General screams you ain't got nothin' to worry about. If any of you think you can do better, nothing is stopping you from highing your young butts over to Damascus and volunteering to have at the bad guys.
Palmyra is becoming the Kharkov of this war.
Anyhow, the winner is at Aleppo, Palmyra is a flippin sideshow.
Indeed Aleppo and IDlib are more important than Palmyra , but Russia cannot continue
using their mediocre tactics . if they don't have a big army in Syria or start using attack drones in big numbers, their airforce number will not handle a candle there when facing big numbers of terrorist assault that move fast ,that are very dispersed.
When IS amasses 4k in the middle of a 4-day sandstorm, killing 100 or 1000 more here and there wouldn't make a difference. SAA still run away and they did had inferior numbers.
auslander- Posts : 1637
Points : 1715
Join date : 2015-04-25
KiloGolf wrote: Palmyra is becoming the Kharkov of this war.
Anyhow, the winner is at Aleppo, Palmyra is a flippin sideshow.
I agree that Aleppo is the big game but I'm sure eu/us will want to put more sanctions on us for losing a 'cultural heritage' to the bad guys, if we did indeed 'lose' it.
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
Agree. Russian and Syrian armyx have priorities on the front and it is to liberate Aleppo first and than those free divisions of SAA, Hezbolah and Iraqi militias Will be able to go to any front they will be needed. After liberation of Aleppo SAA will have enough units to liberate Palmira again and to reach Deir er Zor as well.Liberation of Aleppo will free around 50.000 SAA troops and allies.
calm- Posts : 1484
Points : 1486
Join date : 2015-12-19
Location : Serbia
IS claiming
6 - bmp
6 - 122mm guns
7 - 23mm mounted technicals and a bunch of ATGMs ammo small arms
16 - T-72 tanks
12 - T-55 tanks
22 - Ural-4320 trucks
Vystrel battle vehicles
good news
Geolocation:
They entered the Karam ad Da'da district from southeast axis
6 - bmp
6 - 122mm guns
7 - 23mm mounted technicals and a bunch of ATGMs ammo small arms
16 - T-72 tanks
12 - T-55 tanks
22 - Ural-4320 trucks
Vystrel battle vehicles
good news
VİDEO: #SAA is advancing in Karam ad Da'da and Karam ad Da'da Farms #Aleppo
Geolocation:
They entered the Karam ad Da'da district from southeast axis
VladimirSahin- Posts : 408
Points : 424
Join date : 2013-11-29
Age : 33
Location : Florida
auslander wrote:Some of you chair borne warriors are a hoot. No army is omnipotent nor is any one weapon omnipotent. Reverses happen and here y'all are crying the blues as if Brand X was pounding on your house or flat door and you are taking as gospel truth images of abandoned equipment and vehicles posted on some twitter, titter, schmitter or shitter account. Get real. FFS, the same child has been listed on titter 3 different times in three different cities as being 'rescued' by everyone's faithful and reliable charity group, white derbies. And you believe what is posted on shitter or any other 'social media'? Jesus Keeriste on a crutch, calm down. When you hear Mother's MoD screaming then it's time to worry. Until the good Tovarich General screams you ain't got nothin' to worry about. If any of you think you can do better, nothing is stopping you from highing your young butts over to Damascus and volunteering to have at the bad guys.
Hmm... So Russians are going to throw 64 airstrikes and propel the Syrian government forward in Palmyra, kill basically a battalion worth of scums out in the open. Then have the SAA and NDF run away the next day without even putting up a fight in the city? No just no. Someone get me a direct line to the SAA so I can tell them what to do
the worst part is they've fallen back from the Palmyra triangle to the farms further west.[/quote]
PapaDragon- Posts : 13451
Points : 13491
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
calm wrote:IS claiming
6 - bmp
6 - 122mm guns
7 - 23mm mounted technicals and a bunch of ATGMs ammo small arms
16 - T-72 tanks
12 - T-55 tanks
22 - Ural-4320 trucks
Vystrel battle vehicles
.........
Crews and attached personnel of those vehicles should be identified and sent on some ''scout missions'' to identify enemy MG emplacements.
And yes, by that I do mean use them as bait to flush out tangos.
They have proven to be completely useless in any other role although I am sure they would somehow find a way to f*ck that up as well but on the upside they would only be able to do it once.
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
Points : 2461
Join date : 2015-09-01
Location : Macedonia, Hellas
VladimirSahin wrote:Someone get me a direct line to the SAA so I can tell them what to do :lol
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3851
Points : 3829
Join date : 2016-04-08
PapaDragon wrote:calm wrote:IS claiming
6 - bmp
6 - 122mm guns
7 - 23mm mounted technicals and a bunch of ATGMs ammo small arms
16 - T-72 tanks
12 - T-55 tanks
22 - Ural-4320 trucks
Vystrel battle vehicles
.........
Crews and attached personnel of those vehicles should be identified and sent on some ''scout missions'' to identify enemy MG emplacements.
And yes, by that I do mean use them as bait to flush out tangos.
They have proven to be completely useless in any other role although I am sure they would somehow find a way to f*ck that up as well but on the upside they would only be able to do it once.
That many vehicles left behind even after they had enough time to get them out of the city.....Well no words I have can detail how massive of a disgrace that is.
Takes not even ten minutes to set a charge and blow them up from within....Just pathetic.
JohninMK- Posts : 15559
Points : 15700
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : England
A couple of weeks ago I read a quote from a Syrian General saying that it was their standard operating procedure to attack a location, capture it, come under counter attack and withdraw, then go back in again. Basically a way of pulling the militants out of their distributed locations and concentrating them in an attackable, especially by artillery, location.
Whilst the timing may not have been part of the plan, and the sandstorm definitely not, leaving Palmyra under defended was clearly giving a very juicy target to ISIS, too good for them to leave alone. Perhaps by intent inviting them in? It is certainly having the effect of concentrating ISIS allowing air power to get at them. Gaining new ground or a few toys (including trucks to transport a few more of their mates in) is no compensation for loss of their potentially most scarce resource, manpower.
Are we also supposed to believe that Russian Intel is so crap that, with all its multi faceted facilities, it didn't hear or see it coming?
The next couple of weeks will show if it was indeed a sucker move.
Whilst the timing may not have been part of the plan, and the sandstorm definitely not, leaving Palmyra under defended was clearly giving a very juicy target to ISIS, too good for them to leave alone. Perhaps by intent inviting them in? It is certainly having the effect of concentrating ISIS allowing air power to get at them. Gaining new ground or a few toys (including trucks to transport a few more of their mates in) is no compensation for loss of their potentially most scarce resource, manpower.
Are we also supposed to believe that Russian Intel is so crap that, with all its multi faceted facilities, it didn't hear or see it coming?
The next couple of weeks will show if it was indeed a sucker move.
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3851
Points : 3829
Join date : 2016-04-08
JohninMK wrote:A couple of weeks ago I read a quote from a Syrian General saying that it was their standard operating procedure to attack a location, capture it, come under counter attack and withdraw, then go back in again. Basically a way of pulling the militants out of their distributed locations and concentrating them in an attackable, especially by artillery, location.
Whilst the timing may not have been part of the plan, and the sandstorm definitely not, leaving Palmyra under defended was clearly giving a very juicy target to ISIS, too good for them to leave alone. Perhaps by intent inviting them in? It is certainly having the effect of concentrating ISIS allowing air power to get at them. Gaining new ground or a few toys (including trucks to transport a few more of their mates in) is no compensation for loss of their potentially most scarce resource, manpower.
Are we also supposed to believe that Russian Intel is so crap that, with all its multi faceted facilities, it didn't hear or see it coming?
The next couple of weeks will show if it was indeed a sucker move.
Unlikely if that loss of equipment is true they wouldn't have left anything behind at least not 28 mbts, that says either Russia thought the SAA could hold it or they didn't know. Given how far they have been falling back that also doesn't support this was a planned retreat.
The fuck up here is massive in scale.
VladimirSahin- Posts : 408
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Join date : 2013-11-29
Age : 33
Location : Florida
JohninMK wrote:A couple of weeks ago I read a quote from a Syrian General saying that it was their standard operating procedure to attack a location, capture it, come under counter attack and withdraw, then go back in again. Basically a way of pulling the militants out of their distributed locations and concentrating them in an attackable, especially by artillery, location.
Whilst the timing may not have been part of the plan, and the sandstorm definitely not, leaving Palmyra under defended was clearly giving a very juicy target to ISIS, too good for them to leave alone. Perhaps by intent inviting them in? It is certainly having the effect of concentrating ISIS allowing air power to get at them. Gaining new ground or a few toys (including trucks to transport a few more of their mates in) is no compensation for loss of their potentially most scarce resource, manpower.
Are we also supposed to believe that Russian Intel is so crap that, with all its multi faceted facilities, it didn't hear or see it coming?
The next couple of weeks will show if it was indeed a sucker move.
This tactic has been and is being used by the Syrian forces. However... This is a totally different case, equipment to arm at least a company (mechanized infantry) has been left behind. A mixed unit tank battalion was left behind(according to ISIS)... No good at all. In the end ISIS will get its ass kicked so hard but all of this could have played way smoother even with the under equipped forces in Palmyra. The withdrawal part was a mistake IMO and the troops should have defended it until reinforcements could have regrouped, with the cover of Russian air.
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3851
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU
On a side note, I vote we arm chimps and let them take over for the NDF, they clearly can do better.
On a side note, I vote we arm chimps and let them take over for the NDF, they clearly can do better.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13451
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SeigSoloyvov wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU
On a side note, I vote we arm chimps and let them take over for the NDF, they clearly can do better.
Chimps would be overqualified for this compared to NDF.
Goats would be more comparable staff. More competent but just as valuable in terms of lives.
JohninMK- Posts : 15559
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Location : England
Sorry, goats are far too valuable in the 72 virgins allotments.PapaDragon wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU
On a side note, I vote we arm chimps and let them take over for the NDF, they clearly can do better.
Chimps would be overqualified for this compared to NDF.
Goats would be more comparable staff. More competent but just as valuable in terms of lives.
Guest- Guest
miketheterrible wrote:As well, even if there is a sandstorm, Russian cruise missiles can work in all weather. Should have been heavy bombardment. Oh well. Guess they will have to retake Palmyra again.
You need to have targets to fire cruise missiles at. Static, high value targets which you can observe during the attack to get Combat Assessment. Which is very unlikely in sandstorm with UAVs that Russia has atm.
You cant use cruise missiles aganist moving column, its very unpractical and effects would be very low to unexisting.
Guest- Guest
PapaDragon wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU
On a side note, I vote we arm chimps and let them take over for the NDF, they clearly can do better.
Chimps would be overqualified for this compared to NDF.
Goats would be more comparable staff. More competent but just as valuable in terms of lives.
Tbh in initial stages of the war Yugoslav Teritorial defence performed even worse, which is somewhat similar type of units as NDF. But i must add again... in initial stages of the war like first few months. Far worse equiped units and far less numerous units in Republic of Serbs stopped major Croatian-Bosnian offensive around Nevesinje. I simply cannot cope with this amount of incompetence NDF shows even after years of combat.
calm- Posts : 1484
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Clashes now ongoing near T4 airbase.
https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1/status/808067840209285120
https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1/status/808067840209285120
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