Austin wrote:You cant just see the model and figure out the tonnage , It depends on what scale the model is built.
You can if you have a reference item.
An example of a reference item in this case is the main gun. It is the same gun found on the Gorshkov, yet it looks so tiny on this model. The more I look at this model the more I am inclined to think that this ship is 10,000 to 15,000 Ton class.
If they said it will be 1500 T bigger and some months after it will be 8000 T it means that they didn't really start work on it as of now and this is just a model made quickly to have something to show.
It looks like a nice ship but untill confirmation it's just a maket.
I still wonder if the stealth profiling could be refined a little? Here's an article on the RuNavy producing stealth guns for ships. Maybe increased stealth is now being given more priority?
Russian Shipyard to build 4th Project 22350 Gorshkov-class Frigate Hull by January 2018
The Northern Shipyard in St. Petersburg in northwest Russia is planning to build the hull of the fourth Project 22350 frigate Admiral Isakov by January 2018, the shipyard’s press office said. The Northern Shipyard is a subsidiary of Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation.
Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov frigate
"Blocks No. 3-4 and No. 2 of the frigate Admiral Isakov have been transferred to the second site of the slipway. Shipbuilders are currently planing the units for their further attachment and welding. The blocks are expected to be attached one another before late July and assembled and welded in August. We are expected to build the ship’s hull by January 2018," the press office said.
The frigate Admiral Isakov was laid down in November 2013. This is the fourth Project 22350 ship. The frigate was named after Admiral Ivan Isakov who had been Soviet Navy Chief of Staff during the Great Patriotic War and had made a significant contribution to the development of the country’s Navy.
First ship of the class Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov frigate during sea trials
The Project 22350 frigate is designed to fight surface ships and submarines on the high seas and repel air attacks both independently and within a formation.
The Project 22350 frigate is flush-decked and has three-island superstructures, a tower mast and a steel tube. The ship has a lower radar signature, which makes it virtually invisible for the enemy’s radars.
The Project 22350 frigate has a displacement of 4,550 tons and a length of 135 meters. The capacity of its diesel-gas-turbine power plant is 65,000 hp.
The ship is armed with the advanced A-192 130mm gun and anti-ship, antisubmarine and air defense missile systems, including the Kalibr (NATO reporting name: SS-N-27 Sizzler) and Poliment-Redut. The ship is capable of carrying the Kamov Ka-27 (Helix) helicopter and its versions.
Since the super gorshkov is a new hull it will take much longer to build than subsequent regular gorshkovs. It will be a similat situation to the 855s and 855Ms ( build time around 5 years longer)Since its also bigger than the original you can add a few more years of build time. Together with unexpected problems during building because its a new ship, delays during trials, also as garryB likes to say "because its the first of its class", I prefict build time of 15+years and 10+ years of trials for the super gorshkov and assuming its launched in 2025-2027, we can expect it to be in service by 2052 at the earliest.
KomissarBojanchev wrote:Since the super gorshkov is a new hull it will take much longer to build than subsequent regular gorshkovs. It will be a similat situation to the 855s and 855Ms ( build time around 5 years longer)Since its also bigger than the original you can add a few more years of build time. Together with unexpected problems during building because its a new ship, delays during trials, also as garryB likes to say "because its the first of its class", I prefict build time of 15+years and 10+ years of trials for the super gorshkov and assuming its launched in 2025-2027, we can expect it to be in service by 2052 at the earliest.
Depends what they do with it and so far we don't have a clue.
Don't take that Naval Expo scale model as some gospel. Keep in mind that it's displayed by very same company that gave us nonsense like ''Shtorm'' Super Superior Supercarrier and that idiotic anime-style nuclear destroyer.
It's important to separate that type of horseshit from reality.
If they don't go full retard and instead just take standard Gorshkov and simply add another segment or two so they could fit extra VLS cells and additional fuel tanks then it will not affect build time in any unpredictable way.
KomissarBojanchev wrote:Since the super gorshkov is a new hull it will take much longer to build than subsequent regular gorshkovs. It will be a similat situation to the 855s and 855Ms ( build time around 5 years longer)Since its also bigger than the original you can add a few more years of build time. Together with unexpected problems during building because its a new ship, delays during trials, also as garryB likes to say "because its the first of its class", I prefict build time of 15+years and 10+ years of trials for the super gorshkov and assuming its launched in 2025-2027, we can expect it to be in service by 2052 at the earliest.
Depends what they do with it and so far we don't have a clue.
Don't take that Naval Expo scale model as some gospel. Keep in mind that it's displayed by very same company that gave us nonsense like ''Shtorm'' Super Superior Supercarrier and that idiotic anime-style nuclear destroyer.
It's important to separate that type of horseshit from reality.
If they don't go full retard and instead just take standard Gorshkov and simply add another segment or two so they could fit extra VLS cells and additional fuel tanks then it will not affect build time in any unpredictable way.
Unless you have some official statement, they didn't start work of dev for any of these ships. Like Papadragon said it's just artwork of the companies.
GarryB wrote:The whole purpose design the modular multipurpose design of the new Russian ships is so they can be rapidly built in all shipyards.
They may want to start taking advantage of that feature
Maybe they are waiting the super-gorshkov because the gorshkov is not what they want anymore. The modular design is the same for both of them so they have conclude that spending a litle more time for designing a bigger ship is better than buying lot of gorshkovs. They still have Grigorovitch, Steregouchy, Karakurt to build so who cares.
But if we see the Super Gorshkov we can say Bye-Bye to the 21956 destroyer which too bad because it has the space for S-400F while the Redut cells can't have the big missiles and is just the naval S-350.
It's all about economy and giving work to the shipyards. They don't really care about a war. Who would attack them ?
GarryB wrote:The whole purpose design the modular multipurpose design of the new Russian ships is so they can be rapidly built in all shipyards.
They may want to start taking advantage of that feature
Maybe they are waiting the super-gorshkov because the gorshkov is not what they want anymore. The modular design is the same for both of them so they have conclude that spending a litle more time for designing a bigger ship is better than buying lot of gorshkovs. They still have Grigorovitch, Steregouchy, Karakurt to build so who cares.
But if we see the Super Gorshkov we can say Bye-Bye to the 21956 destroyer which too bad because it has the space for S-400F while the Redut cells can't have the big missiles and is just the naval S-350.
It's all about economy and giving work to the shipyards. They don't really care about a war. Who would attack them ?
Project 21956 was never going to be built for yes you are right.
The leader aka project 23560 is going to be built regardless if they build super Gorvs or not.
Project 21956 was never going to be built for yes you are right.
The leader aka project 23560 is going to be built regardless if they build super Gorvs or not.
I know. 21956 was designed with S-300F so it is a pretty old design but it is offered to export (at least on website of rosoboronexport).
I've always though that RuN had made the mistake of not integrating S-300 on more ships. They keep it just for big ships while China succesfully put it on frigates. That's why I like the project 21956. Udaloy for exemple are 164m long and could have been designed with it.
Lider is another level, can't be compared to a frigate of 135m.
Lider destroyer is slated for 2025, it will not be affected by frigate construction
It leaves 7 years at least so they really need to get off their asses and start building frigates in the meantime
If Gorshkov class is giving them so much headache then they should just give light upgrade to Grigorevich frigates and build them instead (drop torpedoes and anti-sub rockets, upgrade sonar and sensors, add another UKSK and streamline the upper section)
PapaDragon wrote:Lider destroyer is slated for 2025, it will not be affected by frigate construction
It leaves 7 years at least so they really need to get off their asses and start building frigates in the meantime
If Gorshkov class is giving them so much headache then they should just give light upgrade to Grigorevich frigates and build them instead (drop torpedoes and anti-sub rockets, upgrade sonar and sensors, add another UKSK and streamline the upper section)
They need fresh ships ASAP
Completely agree. The Russian navy doesn't have the privilege of "wanting" and "not wanting". They need to start building what they can build now instead of planning new upgrades and ships that keep never getting build because they changed their minds in the last minute about them. There are still so much udaloys, slavas and sovremennys to replace, that it doesn't matter if it will be gorshkov or super gorshkov, they simply need to replace these aging ships.
the point is that the modular design will speed up production and development... the new ships will be multirole, but bigger ships will get different radars and sensors from smaller ships, but will have the same weapons in greater numbers.
They will also have different propulsion arrangements.
The point is that the software to make everything work can be standardised... the difference will be that the larger vessels will be able to scan greater distances with their larger sensors, but with the C4IR systems even a tiny vessel can have target data for targets well outside its sensor range... like a corvette targeting a ground target 2,000km away as we have seen.
There are still so much udaloys, slavas and sovremennys to replace, that it doesn't matter if it will be gorshkov or super gorshkov, they simply need to replace these aging ships.
The ships they will be building now will be in service for the next 3-4 decades so it makes sense to get them right.
Pleasing fanbois on websites probably does not enter their criteria for what they should or should not do.
George1 wrote:The Northern Fleet began the final phase of testing the frigate Admiral Gorshkov
https://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/2050501.html
It's pretty much 2018 already. Nice they get one frigate
FFS, yes the delays are a disappointment, but you know full well that this is a completely new design with new sensors & weapons & battle management systems, so why piss and moan about it? Who gives a flying fuck? The ship will be accepted when all bugs are worked out, system integration is in full compliance to spec, and the Navy is FULLY satisfied. This is a warship, not a shitcan F-35. Engine supply issues mean they have plenty of time to get her correct and not repeat the installation issues with Kasatanov (eg dodgy radar cabling), so they are doing it right. Shake her until she fails, then fix her and do it again. Rinse & repeat until she's sorted, then apply teh lessons to her sisters.
That's the way to build a warship. Not by pushing them out to satisfy a bureaucrats schedule and then having to go back and fix the problems on a number of units once they are eventually solved. Just because the USAF/USN is going to have to rebuild a load of pre-serial F-35s doesn't mean the RuN wants to follow the same 'exceptional" path with the 22350s.
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