There are no excuses for building 2000t corvette more then 10 years (Sovershennyy 2006-???), there is no excuses for building 4500t frigate for 10 years (Gorshkov 2006 february -???) or 6500t LS for 12+ years.
That is just incompetence. (Please do not start BS that you would like to see me doing that job better, that is not my job, my job is done on time and properly, otherwise i would be fired)
The Russians inherited a large number of ships from the Soviet Navy, and despite what you might think they have had rather more things on their plate than having a super up to date navy.
The people who let the Russian Navy down were the Ukrainians and they have been fired.
The problem is that when you fire your main source of engines then it takes time and money to develop a replacement. The result however is that you end up being able to make your own engines so you actually end up in a much better position.
And that is not incompetence. That is dealing with problems as they come up. The shipyard does not decide who makes the engines.
Russia as state is not capable to produce new generation ships in reasonable time. That is FACT and that can not be denied.
Russia as a state has no threats that cannot be dealt with using its fully capable nuclear deterrent. That is the only fact that matters.
The fact that they are not in an economic boom time and therefore can't squander money on unimportant things just because internet warriors want them to is another fact.
Plans are made and things can upset those plans, so plans are adapted and changed.
If you think everyone should be fired because a few ass holes in the Ukraine want to punish Russia by cutting off their own noses then you have clearly never managed anything.
Do you think firing them will make things faster or slower?
And we are talking about rather small ships, just imagine new destroyer 10000+ tonns or carrier 80-100.000t. I hope they will not even try to produce them before they first re-learn how to build modern frigates or corvettes.
See, now you are just being a prick. They know how to build boats, what they need are the engines... without which all those completed hulls lined up are fairly useless.
If they were making basic shit vessels like the La Fayette then they could have made hundreds already... the problem is that they are making modern capable ships that need decent capable SAMs and engines... things that don't just fall from the skies.
The Russian shipyards made half of the Mistrals in the same time the French made their halves.
How many years should pass before you will see that this is not normal produce rates? 20? Maybee 30??? Is 30 years fine for finish Frigate according to you?
The Finnish can't make decent Frigates...
You are making the same rookie mistake...
The Russian Navy has had a fundamental shift in design and development. Previously each vessel was custom made for the job, from electronics to weapons to engines all optimised for one job. They could easily have just replaced the Moskits on the Sovremenny with SS-N-14s instead of building Udaloys with totally different sensors and weapons and propulsion suited to anti sub work.
What they are doing now... multirole modular designs that can perform all sorts of different roles previous vessels could not perform, will simplify their inventory of vessels from corvettes up to carriers. That will make production quicker and easier, but they have to get it right first. It is still new to them.
In every big project problems are part of the game, and capability to overcome problems is something that each good team have to have, otherwise it is not good team.
Of course... the shipyard should be able to build engines and fix the problems with Poliment Redut... and they should also cure cancer and send a man to the moon by 2017... or they are all fired.
I gues that we all on this forum are fans of Russia and Russian military, but that do not means that we should be stupid and/or blind.
Realistic is what we should be... can you try?
Russian shipbuilding industy is in huge problems and Russian security on open seas is jeopadized as just several new oceangoing fighting ships are produced in last 25 years. They are wasting and blocking huge funds in unfinished ships for decades. and you still find excuses.....
Hahahahaha... you are funny. Please name the huge problems Russia has in the open seas. Just a short list will do.
First step in problem solving is to addmit that you have one, and understading that finding excuses will not help.
Hahahaha... so your solution is for the Shipyard bosses to admit they are incompetent and resign... How will that get engines for the ships they have built and are going to build? How will that fix the other systems they are having problems with?
FREM 6500T
HAhahahahahaha... they talked about that ship in 1992 and after a whole lot of shit and bollocks the UK withdrew from the project in 1999, and it became a french italian project... the first boat was accepted in 2007 and they ordered two boats each... next two boats were CANCELLED.
So 7 years of bullshit and then losing a development partner and then another 8 years before the hull got wet...
Mistral 20000T : 3 years.
Half of the two Russian Mistrals were built in Russian shipyards.
Sorry for pointing obivious thing to you but it seems you need that. Or prefer staying blind.
For all the whine you have introduced no new information... just bitching and moaning that the Russians haven't made as many ships as France has. Boo Hoo.
Let Russians be twice slower with twice smaller ship, that would be fine. But being 5 times slower that is not fine in my book.
You can't look at production times in a vacuum. The Russians have lots of ships already and no critical need to replace them over night.
Without engines there is no rush to produce hundreds of little or big ships.
Ivan Gren also have S 400?
Ivan Gren did not meet all their requirements. Why mass produce that?
SAM is not problem for Corvette.
See this is the problem. The new Russian ships are modular and have standard systems.
That means the small ships have the same electronic systems as the really big ships... the difference is size of sensors and numbers of weapons.
A corvette will have exactly the same UKSK launcher a cruiser carries... the difference is that a corvette will have one and the cruiser will have 10 or 20.
Once the problems of integration and operation of the systems are fixed future production should become much faster.
If they do not have S 400 ready they shouldnt base all plans on it dont you think? They decided differently and they were wrong thanks to that decision ships are not ready jet and they should be in service for 5 years now. Not that they didnh have experience which could help them, BULAVA remember that? Having multibillion worth ship without main arnament for years. That should be a lesson but it wasnt. That makes me a bit piss off.
Well that makes you stupid.
A Naval S-400 and a Naval S-500 are going to be the primary SAM and ABM armament of the Russian Navy. Just like the Zircon is going to be the future hypersonic attack missile. That means your new vessels should all be equipped to carry these systems.
Having Corvettes armed with OSA because it was quicker and cheaper is a total waste and total stupidity.
They just did all wrong. They have best intentions that is sure...but road to hell is paved with good intentiones.
They tried to be best and perfect in every class. They didnt do selfassesment properly. Do not take task that you cannot finish. Whole navy is in big problems,.
So you know better... just one question... WTF is the point of bitching about it now... why didn't you tell them 20 years ago what they were going to do wrong so they could do everything right.
Ohh, that is right... any prick can look back at the history of something and point out things that could have been done better...
The problem is that the world is more complicated that that... the Russian Navy didn't choose to put engine production in the Ukraine and if Russia had stopped using Ukrainian engines for their navy and rocket forces and in every other area of the military then the Ukraine could have turned west much faster and could be in NATO by now... and they might have kept the Crimea.
Their foreign policy in Syria is enforced with 40 years old ships...they needed to send Buyans there. Thank god that nobody want to mess with Russia but that fleet there.... Ok Slava is still great but Frigates and Destroyer....
They could have sent row boats for all it matters with regard to their purpose.
Those frigates and destroyers are perfectly able to do the role of show the flag.
Pacific Fleet. Just one "new " ship in last 25 years. Only North Corea have weaker fleet there. Caspian Fleet is only one that is strong enought...and that is not becouse that fleet is strong.
I don't see Japan invading any time soon. Having lots of expensive ships there makes no difference for Japan... what enormous changes are you expecting to see if Russia sends a cruiser to the Pacific fleet?
And whats scares me are their plans to produce destroyers and carierrs. I would surely like to see them. But at this moment i think that Russia have huge work to make their shipbuilding COMPLEX ready for frigates, and only then they should work on destroyer ( i would prefer smaller ones up to 10K).
What are you dribbling about? They make their own ice breakers of 10K tons or more in a few years.
They can make Icebreakers well because they have always produced them and this wasn't a skill they lost after the fall of the USSR. They can make subs well also, but Russia views their ships has Capital Ships so there is more importance on them.
They have never made multirole corvettes before.
No Soviet ship had any missile based land attack capability and any ships that had anti ship capability only had weak ASW capability and vice versa.
These new vessels are fully multirole with anti ship and ASW and land attack capability, with all new systems sensors and weapons. They are also combining battle amangement systems very much like the net centricity of the land forces.
All at the same time developing new engines and propulsion systems replacing units from germany and the Ukraine and you guys give them a fail.
Fact is currently the russian state cannot get new ships out quick enough to compare to other nations and this is fact.
You are very selective as to whom you compare them to... how about comparing them with a country under the same sanctions with the same economy?
I do agree they should have went with stuff they know how to do rather then stuff they are trying to do and that really hurt them.
Well that is just dumb... they already have plenty of ex Soviet vessels they could rehabilitate if they wanted crap armed vessels.
In fact they would still be better armed than most western vessels... just compare Exocet with Moskit.
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