Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

medo wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:

medo wrote:Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles.

There won't be any more Gremyashy (pr. 20385) corvettes other than the 2 that are building at Severnaya Werf (St. Petersburg). Reason: they cost almost as much as an Admiral Gorshkov class frigate.
On the other hand there will be more Pr. 20380 class corvettes coming from the Far -East. 3 are being built there currently with a fourth one to be laid out in June 2016.
As for Severnaya, it is still unsure what they plan to build next. They may continue with 20380 or the newer version (20386). They could also stop corvettes altogether and concentrate on the Gorshkov class frigates. Currently they have 2 more 20380 corvettes building (apart from the two 20385 mentioned above).

20385 is for northern fleet, while 20380 is for Baltic fleet. With 2 more 20380, which are now in the process of building in Severnaya will bring full number of 6 corvettes for Baltic fleet. Pacific fleet will also get 6 20380 corvettes.  Role of Gremyashy corvettes in Norhtern fleet will be different than the role of Gorshkov frigates and considering the importance of Northern fleet, they need 6 of them to protect brown water area, while Gorshkovs will form blue water fleet.

Agreed.
However, some time ago the Navy mentioned that they don't want more 20385. They just are too expensive for the role you mentioned.

TheArmenian wrote:

medo wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:

medo wrote:Now with engine problem solved for 20385 corvettes, I hope they will order more for Northern fleet. I like them more than original Steregushy corvettes as they are armed with UKSK launchers and Kalibr cruise missiles.

There won't be any more Gremyashy (pr. 20385) corvettes other than the 2 that are building at Severnaya Werf (St. Petersburg). Reason: they cost almost as much as an Admiral Gorshkov class frigate.
On the other hand there will be more Pr. 20380 class corvettes coming from the Far -East. 3 are being built there currently with a fourth one to be laid out in June 2016.
As for Severnaya, it is still unsure what they plan to build next. They may continue with 20380 or the newer version (20386). They could also stop corvettes altogether and concentrate on the Gorshkov class frigates. Currently they have 2 more 20380 corvettes building (apart from the two 20385 mentioned above).

20385 is for northern fleet, while 20380 is for Baltic fleet. With 2 more 20380, which are now in the process of building in Severnaya will bring full number of 6 corvettes for Baltic fleet. Pacific fleet will also get 6 20380 corvettes.  Role of Gremyashy corvettes in Norhtern fleet will be different than the role of Gorshkov frigates and considering the importance of Northern fleet, they need 6 of them to protect brown water area, while Gorshkovs will form blue water fleet.

Agreed.
However, some time ago the Navy mentioned that they don't want more 20385. They just are too expensive for the role you mentioned.

True, but situation now has changed. They have domestic engines for Gremyashy corvettes, but not yet for Gorshkovs. Gremyashy is now fully domestic ship and not much weaker than Grigorovich frigate and could be built in Far East as well. In the mean time, when Saturn will build new domestic engines for both Gorshkov and Grigorovich frigates, they could concentrate to build more Gremyashy corvettes. Why waisting time and waiting few more years forbuilding ships, when Steregushy and Gremyashy corvettes have their domestic engines and could be build without problems with supplies. Navy simply need new ships.

'Red' Corvette: Russia Ready to Install Engines in Its New Stealth Warship

The Gremyashchy, a sophisticated new Russian naval ship, will be equipped with domestically made engines, according to the press service of the Russian Defense Ministry.

The Project 20385 Gremyashchy corvette will get the engines before the end of May 2015, according to the Ministry.

The Russian Navy had previously planned to equip the corvette with engines produced by the German company MTU. However, like dozens of other contracts with companies from countries which imposed sanctions against Russia in 2014, these plans were scrapped.

With the four engines due to be transported to the Gremyashchy by the end of May, the warship's state trials will begin in 2017, according to the Russian newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta.

This multi-role ship is being built at St. Petersburg's Severnaya Verf Shipyard; it is designed for antisubmarine and surface warfare as well as for supporting land operations. The vessel is made of composite materials and incorporates stealth technology, which has considerably reduced its radar and infrared signatures.

The Gremyashchy has a crew of 99 and is equipped with artillery, missile and anti-submarine weaponry, as well as an advanced radar sytem.
Its armaments include Kalibr-NK universal missiles, a Redut anti-aircraft missile system and a A-190-01 100mm gun. It also has a hangar for operating a Kamov Ka-27 antisubmarine warfare helicopter.

The 104-meter-long corvette has a full displacement of 2,200 metric tons and a maximum speed of 27 knots (about 50 kilometers) per hour.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160430/1038879192/russia-corvette-engines.html#ixzz47If3y4wO

Orders for the third of the Pacific Project 20380 corvette

According to information on the website of public procurement, PJSC "Amur Shipbuilding Plant" (ASP, Komsomolsk-on-Amur) is actively contracting systems and components for the construction of a third of the pledged at the plant for the Pacific fleet corvette project 20380 "Hero of Russia Aldar Tsydenzhapov" (serial number 2103).

Recall that the corvette project 20380 "Hero of Russia Aldar Tsydenzhapov" (serial number 2103) was laid on the July 22, 2015. At the same time held Neas closed request for prices to supply tripping devices for sonar system "Minotaur-M" SPU WSP-M appears a request for the supply of two sets of devices - not only for the construction of the corvette with the serial number 2103, and for the next Corvette with serial number 2104. Earlier media reported that the corvette tab with the serial number 2104 is scheduled for NEA on 1 July 2016 with the assignment of the ship name, "sharp".

Contracts for the construction of the corvette project 20380 with serial number 2103 on the NEA:

Technical support of construction and adjustment of the project design documentation
Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau
186,045 mln
Deadline - 25/11/2018 (it probable date of delivery of the order in 2103)
http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/documents.html?noticeId=3604923&epz=true&style44=false

Supply of gun mount AK-630M-06 - 2 sets.
Tulamashzavod
83,698 mln
term - 06.2017
http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3456280&epz=true&style44=false

Product Purchase 3S97.2K.00 - 1 set.
JSC "SDO"
400,181 mln
Term - 06.2017
http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3660615&epz=true&style44=false

MTPK Package Management System
AO SSPE Region
60,652 mln
Term - 10.2017
http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3689422&epz=true&style44=false

Supply of lowering and lifting device for the complex "Minotaur-M" SPU WSP M - 2 pcs
317,200 mln
http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3689472&epz=true&style44=false

Complex II-409, the antenna APS-6-3M, equipment BTS, connecting devices
Central Research Institute of Electric appliance
93,905 mln
term - 09.2017
http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3689492&epz=true&style44=false

Aggregate Supply diesel diesel 1DDA-12000 (06, 07).
Kolomna factory
626,387 mln
http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3576342&epz=true&style44=false

Diesel Generator-ADH 630K TU 24-02 - 4 pcs
UDMZ
290,178 mln
http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3037214&epz=true&style44=false

Screw propeller left and right rotation (2 pieces) Fairing propeller casting (3 pcs)
Baltic Shipbuilding Plant,
44,758 mln
http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3577058&epz=true&style44=false

Supply shafts
Zelenodolsk Plant named after Gorky
55,892 mln

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1878489.html

Hi again,

Regarding the Pr.20385 what will be the electronic equipment? will they carry the Furke-2? and what about the Zaslon radar?

Finally I do not agree that the Pr.20380 are not useful. To me seem to be very correct but fir its intended role, patrol of coastal waters.

Best regards

Mirlo

Mirlo wrote:Hi again,

Regarding the Pr.20385 what will be the electronic equipment? will they carry the Furke-2? and what about the Zaslon radar?

Finally I do not agree that the Pr.20380 are not useful. To me seem to be very correct but fir its intended role, patrol of coastal waters.

Best regards

Mirlo

Any modern ship with long range missiles, surface to air missiles and helicopter produced in large numbers are very good.

Isos wrote:

Mirlo wrote:Hi again,

Regarding the Pr.20385 what will be the electronic equipment? will they carry the Furke-2? and what about the Zaslon radar?

Finally I do not agree that the Pr.20380 are not useful. To me seem to be very correct but fir its intended role, patrol of coastal waters.

Best regards

Mirlo

Any modern ship with long range missiles, surface to air missiles and helicopter produced in large numbers are very good.

The problem is that they are not produced in large numbers.

Pr.20385 is potentially a good ship, but being only two and with stores for 15 days of continuos operation seems to me too small capabilities for its price.

Best regards

Mirlo

In the Far East:
SOVERSHENNY is almost ready. Masts are installed, propulsion is in place. Getting ready for tests soon.

Nice. Its time for other fleets also to get new modern ships

Russian made engines have just been installed on the Pr. 20385 Gremyashy

I may have missed something in the translations or just confused but I thought they were buying in Chinese engines for these & were going to use the Russian engines on new 20380s?

If they have engines suitable for 20385 though I'd have been inclined to put in more orders to help make up for the engine issues on 22350 & 11356, particularly the latter.

hoom wrote:I may have missed something in the translations or just confused but I thought they were buying in Chinese engines for these & were going to use the Russian engines on new 20380s?

If they have engines suitable for 20385 though I'd have been inclined to put in more orders to help make up for the engine issues on 22350 & 11356, particularly the latter.

Physically the 20380 and 20385 are almost exactly the same. The 20385 is just more technically advanced. I would imagine the same engine would fit into both.

Surely 20385 is somewhat longer -> heavier than 20380?

hoom wrote:Surely 20385 is somewhat longer -> heavier than 20380?

Not by much;

http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_20380.htm

Russian engines fitted to Project 20385 corvette, as import substitution efforts pay off
Nicholas de Larrinaga, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly | 20 May 2016

Here: http://www.janes.com/article/60520/russian-engines-fitted-to-project-20385-corvette-as-import-substitution-efforts-pay-off

Russia has installed indigenous engines on its first Project 20385 multirole corvette, as the nation builds workarounds to the sanction regimes that have partially crippled its naval construction.

Two Russian-made 1DDA-12000 diesel turbines from Kolomna Plant were installed on lead-vessel Gremyashchy at Severnaya Verf in St Petersburg on 19 May, the shipyard announced.

Gremyashchy was originally designed to receive MTU diesel engines from Germany. But EU sanctions imposed over the Ukraine crisis forced Russia to suspend the vessel's construction in 2015 until a new engine could be found.

The Project 20385 class is a larger and improved derivative of the Project 20380 and Project 20381 design (Steregushchiy-class) corvettes, all of which are intended to replace Russia's Project 1124/1124M (Grisha-class) anti-submarine warfare corvettes.

Book. wrote:Russian engines fitted to Project 20385 corvette, as import substitution efforts pay off
Nicholas de Larrinaga, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly | 20 May 2016

Here: http://www.janes.com/article/60520/russian-engines-fitted-to-project-20385-corvette-as-import-substitution-efforts-pay-off

Russia has installed indigenous engines on its first Project 20385 multirole corvette, as the nation builds workarounds to the sanction regimes that have partially crippled its naval construction.

Two Russian-made 1DDA-12000 diesel turbines from Kolomna Plant were installed on lead-vessel Gremyashchy at Severnaya Verf in St Petersburg on 19 May, the shipyard announced.

Gremyashchy was originally designed to receive MTU diesel engines from Germany. But EU sanctions imposed over the Ukraine crisis forced Russia to suspend the vessel's construction in 2015 until a new engine could be found.

The Project 20385 class is a larger and improved derivative of the Project 20380 and Project 20381 design (Steregushchiy-class) corvettes, all of which are intended to replace Russia's Project 1124/1124M (Grisha-class) anti-submarine warfare corvettes.

The 16D49 6000 hp turbocharged diesel.

http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/eng/productions/diesel_engine/d49/behaviour/

So this engine is a more powerful version of the 4000 MTU series ranging from 8 to 16 cylinders.   MTU has a 10000 hp 20 cylinder
engine but I do not believe it was the model that was to be used for this corvette.

http://www.mtu-online.com/mtu/products/diesel-engines-overview/

hoom wrote:If they have engines suitable for 20385 though I'd have been inclined to put in more orders to help make up for the engine issues on 22350 & 11356, particularly the latter.

The issue with 22350 and 11356 is about gas turbines the production of which reside in Ukraine, courtesy bad decisions during Soviet time.


@ kvs

The MTU engine on 20380 is a 16 cylinder unit.

Dima wrote:

hoom wrote:If they have engines suitable for 20385 though I'd have been inclined to put in more orders to help make up for the engine issues on 22350 & 11356, particularly the latter.

The issue with 22350 and 11356 is about gas turbines the production of which reside in Ukraine, courtesy bad decisions during Soviet time.


@ kvs

The MTU engine on 20380 is a 16 cylinder unit.

So it is the 4000 series MTU. All the other high power offerings have different cylinder configurations.

BTW, production of gas turbines does not reside in the Ukraine. Parts of the production resides in the Ukraine.
The M90FR which is used in the 22350 is mostly built in Russia. It is being replaced with first prototypes
by early 2017. This is a redesigned engine. I guess Russia does not want the specs to belong to NATO
since Banderastan has given its masters in Washington every piece of information on the M90FR.

kvs wrote:So it is the 4000 series MTU.   All the other high power offerings have different cylinder configurations.

Yes, think it has to be one among those series.

BTW, production of gas turbines does not reside in the Ukraine.   Parts of the production resides in the Ukraine.

Sorry about 22350, should have been clearer. I meant the 11356 which uses Zorya propulsion plants.
But we don't see the 1135 or 11356 in the list on Zorya website as their 'clients'. So actually confused what actually are the Ukrainian stuffs in those power plants.
If you have more info please do post it.

The M90FR which is used in the 22350 is mostly built in Russia.  It is being replaced with first prototypes
by early 2017.   This is a redesigned engine.   I guess Russia does not want the specs to belong to NATO
since Banderastan has given its masters in Washington every piece of information on the M90FR.  

Yes very true about the M90.

But M90 gas turbine project was the most badly managed one and I have seen it referred in some articles from the 90s. If I'm not wrong the M90 was to complete its development cycle and meant to enter service in the 90s in the same time period (though with time lag) when the first of the uprated GE LM2500 (26,500 shp) was to go active with the Arleigh Burke class destroyers in the early 90s.

But due to the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the crisis that followed, the project never really took off. And when it really took off on a modest level Russia made the mistake of pulling in the Ukrainians, the effect of which we see now. But the good news is that the M90 will now be completely free of Ukrainian components.
But Russia lost a good load of time, nearly 25 years or more on the M90 where as its western/murican counterpart LM2500 crossed 30,000shp in the late 90s.

I'm still not able to clearly understand (other than financial problems, corruption) why Russia, with so many gas turbines under its belt for various aircraft, did not try to convert them to be used for marine application.

I'm still not able to clearly understand (other than financial problems, corruption) why Russia, with so many gas turbines under its belt for various aircraft, did not try to convert them to be used for marine application.

My hope is that they unify the designs and scale the various systems, so they can have engine families of different power rating levels for land, sea, and air based models.

Power generation in land based power stations have similar issues to ship based systems and could be very closely related saving development money and increasing commonality improving maintainence.

Dima wrote:

kvs wrote:So it is the 4000 series MTU.   All the other high power offerings have different cylinder configurations.

Yes, think it has to be one among those series.

BTW, production of gas turbines does not reside in the Ukraine.   Parts of the production resides in the Ukraine.

Sorry about 22350, should have been clearer. I meant the 11356 which uses Zorya propulsion plants.
But we don't see the 1135 or 11356 in the list on Zorya website as their 'clients'. So actually confused what actually are the Ukrainian stuffs in those power plants.
If you have more info please do post it.

The DT59 used in the 11356 is ancient:

http://bastion-opk.ru/turbine-engine-dt-59/

It was developed during the 1970s. It is a crime that Russia has not replaced it and the DS71. I have not seen any Russian
variants to specifically replace them. The M70FRU and the M75RU have lower specific fuel consumption than the DS71.
I suspect that work is ongoing to replace these "old pieces of junk" but without any fanfare. Banderastan has forced
Russia to sever all ties. Zorya is going to go bankrupt in the future since its business was associated with Russian products.

Russia Holds Keel-Laying Ceremony of Rezky Corvette at Country's Far East

Rezky corvette is meant for antisubmarine and surface warfare as well as for supporting land operations

VLADIVOSTOK (Sputnik) — Russia on Friday held a ceremony of laying the keel of Rezky corvette at the shipbuilding plant in the Far Eastern city of Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the press service of the Khabarovsk Territory's government said in a statement.

"Today the official ceremony of the beginning of construction of a new ship — Rezky multipurpose patrol corvette of a littoral zone — took place at the Amur Shipbuilding Plant. The event was dedicated to the 80th plant's anniversary," the statement said.

According to the statement, Rezky is the fourth corvette, which is constructed at the plant for the needs of the country's Pacific Fleet, and is expected to be handed over to the Navy in 2019.

Rezky, the Project 20380-class corvette designed by Russia's Almaz naval design bureau, is optimized for antisubmarine and surface warfare as well as to support land operations.

http://sputniknews.com/military/20160701/1042275395/rezky-corvette-russia.html

Project 20380 corvettes delivery has been delayed

Deputy Defense Minister: Amur plant has delayed the state defense order