Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+85
lancelot
TMA1
Rasisuki Nebia
Backman
mnztr
Tingsay
owais.usmani
xeno
nero
LMFS
slasher
verkhoturye51
Tsavo Lion
Isos
Hole
AlfaT8
PapaDragon
JohninMK
miketheterrible
kumbor
ali.a.r
Orocairion
Peŕrier
walle83
ZoA
The-thing-next-door
hoom
BM-21
Benya
Rowdyhorse4
Singular_Transform
Project Canada
franco
GunshipDemocracy
SeigSoloyvov
KiloGolf
Svyatik
Singular_trafo
max steel
George1
ult
cheesfactory
jhelb
Morpheus Eberhardt
rambo54
kvs
flamming_python
Honesroc
Kyo
Werewolf
zg18
Big_Gazza
Vympel
sepheronx
Vann7
Sujoy
Mike E
navyfield
RTN
collegeboy16
bandaidwacker87
magnumcromagnon
Cyberspec
dino00
runaway
Viktor
Ogannisyan8887
GJ Flanker
Mindstorm
KomissarBojanchev
medo
Arrow
TheArmenian
SOC
TR1
Gagydza
IronsightSniper
nightcrawler
Robert.V
GarryB
coolieno99
Austin
Admin
Stealthflanker
Russian Patriot
89 posters

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9559
    Points : 9545
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Isos Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:26 am

    ALAMO wrote:They are not useless, only serve different objectives.


    As long as they have weak subs that can't protect them, they will be easy to hunt for SSNs.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 17688
    Points : 18195
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  George1 Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:19 am

    The second Borey-A-class submarine Generalissimus Suvorov will reinforce the nuclear submarine group of the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy, Navy commander Nikolay Yevmenov said during the submarine launch ceremony at the Sevmash shipyard.

    https://tass.com/defense/1380871

    medo, Big_Gazza and lancelot like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12329
    Points : 12389
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  PapaDragon Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:11 am

    ult wrote:11th and 12th Borei are to be laid down in 2023, the contract should be signed in 2022, according to an anonymous source. From TASS...

    Out-fucking-standing thumbsup

    With 12 new SSBNs Russia is officially restoring it's sea based nuclear deterrent

    And since USN is planning 12 Columbia boats with same amount of missiles as Boreis they will have full parity with USA



    Isos wrote:12 Boreis and 9 Yasen build or under construction. Oscars will get their modernization and older akula and siera already got modernized.

    They also received new Improved Kilos. Also new Lada will be delivered....

    One Lada in service and 5 more in the pipeline and that's just for starters

    With Borei construction approaching the end stretch they should focus on crancking out Yasens in maximum amount possible




    medo and Big_Gazza like this post

    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 1284
    Points : 1284
    Join date : 2020-10-17

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  lancelot Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:24 am

    PapaDragon wrote:With Borei construction approaching the end stretch they should focus on crancking out Yasens in maximum amount possible

    They should but there will likely be some modified Borei construction to be used as for Poseidon nuclear torpedo carriers.

    Big_Gazza likes this post

    avatar
    owais.usmani


    Posts : 1256
    Points : 1254
    Join date : 2019-03-27
    Age : 36

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  owais.usmani Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:16 am

    ult wrote:11th and 12th Borei are to be laid down in 2023, the contract should be signed in 2022, according to an anonymous source. From TASS.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13298525


    They need to start laying down the Borei-B class now. Enough with the scaled down version of Borei already.

    medo likes this post

    miketheterrible dislikes this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 6709
    Points : 6697
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Hole Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:08 pm

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 955a_s10
    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 955a_s11
    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 955a_s12
    Suvorov.

    franco, medo, George1, dino00, Big_Gazza, PapaDragon, DerWolf and like this post

    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 1428
    Points : 1422
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:44 pm

    Not exactly Russia, apart from 12 Borey SSBN, is planning an additional 4 Poseidon drone carriers.  It is also a strategic weapon of a completely new class of submarines armed with new weapons. Very Happy

    For now, one Columbia is under construction.
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 3512
    Points : 3510
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:25 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:
    ult wrote:11th and 12th Borei are to be laid down in 2023, the contract should be signed in 2022, according to an anonymous source. From TASS.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13298525


    They need to start laying down the Borei-B class now. Enough with the scaled down version of Borei already.

    If they have 3x 955 and 9x 955A why do they need more SSBNs? I'd introduce the new "Borei-B" technologies (reckoned to be more advanced quietening and possibly water jet propulsion) to new SSNs, and re-evaluate after a few year of experience in service.

    Build more Yasen, and follow up with next gen Husky once the 885M fleet numbers are up to 12-16.

    Plus keep the 971M modernisation on track. We're getting near the end of the pipeline as far as returning these great boats into service. They are still excellent boats and will add numbers to the fleet to take operational pressure off the 885Ms.

    Hole likes this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12329
    Points : 12389
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  PapaDragon Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:36 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:
    ult wrote:11th and 12th Borei are to be laid down in 2023, the contract should be signed in 2022, according to an anonymous source. From TASS.
    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13298525

    They need to start laying down the Borei-B class now. Enough with the scaled down version of Borei already.

    What are you talking about? What's scaled down?

    Borei-A is top of the line and if these last two are ordered it will fully cover Russia's SSBN fleet for decades to come getting them fully on equal footing with upcoming USA's SSBN fleet


    They will need two or three more trimmed down Boreis for Poseidons but that is unrelated


    What they need next is Yasens and plenty of them




    Big_Gazza likes this post

    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 1428
    Points : 1422
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:36 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Plus keep the 971M modernisation on track.  We're getting near the end of the pipeline as far as returning these great boats into service. They are still excellent boats and will add numbers to the fleet to take operational pressure off the 885Ms.

    Russia will keep the second largest nuclear submarine fleet. However, it will be more effective than the American one. Very Happy
    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 474
    Points : 474
    Join date : 2021-12-07

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Krepost Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:03 am

    Sevmash has got its act together.
    They are now building submarines like sausages Laughing

    2021: 3 nuclear subs made by Sevmash were commissioned: Kazan, Novosibirsk and Knyaz Oleg
    2022: 3 nuclear subs will enter service: Generalissimus Suvorov, Krasnoyarsk and Belgorod

    But over long term, 2 Sevmash built nuclear subs will enter service per year on average.
    At the same time: Admiralty shipyard will deliver a minimum of 1 diesel-electric sub per year (Kilo or Lada).
    So, over the long term, VMF will receive 3 new subs per year on average.
    Considering that the average longevity of a sub is 30 years.
    Russia's undersea fleet will consist eventually of 90 subs (60 nuclear and 30 diesel-electric).

    The USA does not make diesel subs.
    They currently are commissioning 1or 2 Virginias per year.
    Columbia production will take a while to ramp up.
    Their average sub construction will be 2-3 subs per year at best.
    Considering tat they also keep their subs for an average of 30 years.
    The US fleet will have no more than 70-75 subs in service in the long run. Which is pretty much what they have right now.



    GarryB, medo, Arrow, Big_Gazza, kvs and Hole like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33545
    Points : 34059
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:29 am

    With START limitations on warhead numbers and launch platforms it makes no sense to expand the launch capacity of the Boreis...

    Having 20 missiles per sub with 6 warheads per missile and you end up only being allowed just over 4 submarines before you have more than the 500 warheads you are allowed.... 500 SLBMs, 500 ALCMs, 500 ICBMs = 1500 warheads.

    By having fewer missiles on each sub you can have more subs, which makes them harder to deal with and follow.

    The Akula class subs were a case in point, with 20 missiles each with 10 warheads each sub could carry 200 warheads on their own.... assuming no nuclear armed land attack cruise missiles were being carried too.

    That means three subs would carry 600 warheads and be over the START II and III limits...

    It would of course make more sense to download the missiles with say three warheads each which means you can have just over 8 boats operational, which is a useful amount.... four in the Pacific Fleet and four in the Northern Fleet... the reduced payload extending the missile range to allow targets further away to be engaged and also freeing up large amounts of internal space for lots of decoys and jammers to improve the real warheads chances of getting through.
    avatar
    owais.usmani


    Posts : 1256
    Points : 1254
    Join date : 2019-03-27
    Age : 36

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  owais.usmani Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:21 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    What are you talking about? What's scaled down?


    I am talking about the Borei-B, the upgraded Borei with a new jet propulsion unit for further noise reduction, among other upgrades:

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840412

    Back in 2018, it was deemed as too costly. But they are having record budget surplus and strong econimic growth for a couple of years now, so they should now reconsider building this version.
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9559
    Points : 9545
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Isos Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:35 am

    They have reached the max number of SSBN and deployed warheds with the Borei. They can't build more of them unless they want to replace them.

    What they can do is special ships in low quantity like 2 or 3 for Poseidon, 2 or 3 for Kalibr missiles and 1 or 2 for reasearch/drone carriers.

    It's a modular design and the total number (>5) would be worth investing.

    dino00, Big_Gazza and miketheterrible like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12329
    Points : 12389
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  PapaDragon Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:30 am


    Since Borei production line is nicely warmed up they could consider extending construction of Borei-A by 3 extra hulls and then converting original 3 vanilla Boreis into SSGNs or into 1 spy sub and 2 SSGNs (Ohio style)

    For uniformity sake and having loads of conventional cruise missiles on standby

    GarryB, dino00, Big_Gazza and TMA1 like this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 474
    Points : 474
    Join date : 2021-12-07

    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Krepost Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:12 am

    Knyaz Vladimir
    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 27-10410

    GarryB, George1, Big_Gazza and lancelot like this post


    Sponsored content


    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 40 Empty Re: Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:11 pm