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    Precision Guided Munitions in RuAF

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 05, 2024 2:43 am

    The Russians knew perfectly well how many Soviet air defense systems Ukraine had.

    They did, but unlike the west they didn't plan to fight the Ukraine in open conflict right up until just before the time they did which really didn't give them much time to do anything about it. Secondly, they had believed this was an internal issue for Ukraine with provinces that were not happy with Kievs treatment of them and their interests, so why would they think in terms of fighting Ukraine... but third and most of all Ukraine would have collapsed in months without the enormous money and material support from the west, but they adapted their tactics to suit a grinding conflict that bleeds the Ukraine so that no matter who is supporting them and with what they should win.

    I don't think the west was smart enough to do that anywhere and they have fought in quite a lot of places.

    And they had encountered Ukrainian upgraded Buks and Osas in Georgia in 2008. They were a problem back then. Several aircraft Su-25 were shot down. They even shot down a Tu-22M3.

    Those systems have evolved over decades to defeat HATO forces with their super air power, but you think Russia can just flick a switch and just fly around safe like they are not there? The west spent trillions of dollars on stealthy aircraft that are not safe over Russian and Soviet air defences, but you think Russia knows the secret and has a special plane or missile or electronic box that will keep all their aircraft safe?

    The Ukraine air defence force has been reduced to letting Russia pummel Ukrainian military targets and occasionally setting up an ambush to surprise the occasional Russian aircraft that looks vulnerable.... including cargo planes carrying their own POWs.

    And Georgia didn't have more advanced systems like the S-300PS.

    Perhaps you have never studied war before... planes get shot down and air defence systems are often the reason why they get shot down.

    Sometimes even western air defence systems get lucky.

    It was perfectly well known that Ukraine had a hostile regime in place at least since 2014. So this was a major Russia planning failure for sure.

    Yes... they didn't order the billion tons of bubble wrap to wrap all their aircraft and ordinance and drones sufficient to protect them from everything.... or are they incompetent.... they bought it but didn't apply it because they wanted their aircraft to actually be able to fly and deliver the ordinance they were ordered to deliver.

    90km seems a little short.

    It does if you ignore the plus sign next to it. At a guess I would say the 90km range models will be for export soon, and the longer ranged ones will be for domestic use only... or they just want to keep the max range to themselves... no point letting the enemy know how far they can reach just yet.
    lancelot
    lancelot


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    Post  lancelot Fri Apr 05, 2024 3:31 am

    GarryB wrote:they adapted their tactics to suit a grinding conflict that bleeds the Ukraine so that no matter who is supporting them and with what they should win.

    I don't think the west was smart enough to do that anywhere and they have fought in quite a lot of places.
    The only reason Russia can do this is because they are fighting right next to their economic core. The US fights expeditionary wars on the other side of the globe. Imagine they went into an attrition war like that. The logistics footprint would have been impossible for them.
    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic


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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:05 am

    lancelot wrote:
    GarryB wrote:they adapted their tactics to suit a grinding conflict that bleeds the Ukraine so that no matter who is supporting them and with what they should win.

    I don't think the west was smart enough to do that anywhere and they have fought in quite a lot of places.
    The only reason Russia can do this is because they are fighting right next to their economic core. The US fights expeditionary wars on the other side of the globe. Imagine they went into an attrition war like that. The logistics footprint would have been impossible for them.

    Yes but this is the reason Russia is so committed. Ukraine is next door, it used to be part of the russian world and it is inhabited by (brainwashed) ethnic russians (who have been made believe they are everything but russian.
    Russia would not have needed to fight back in the same if USA had spent a similar effort to try a regime change in Cuba or in Venezuela, because losing them and having hostile countries there would not have been a threat against russian statehood.


    I also mean: of course USA wished and tried for a regime change in Cuba and Venezuela, but in the recent past did not spend a similar amount of effort or resources compared to what they "invested" in the Ukraine.

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    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:42 am

    The only reason Russia can do this is because they are fighting right next to their economic core. The US fights expeditionary wars on the other side of the globe.

    Yeah, the Americans are colonial bastards... no need to remind me... that is why they spend so much on murder every year.

    Imagine they went into an attrition war like that. The logistics footprint would have been impossible for them.

    They have their war of drugs on their borders... which they are losing.

    The US is a global force, but not omnipotent... they got beaten by China in Korea and by Vietnam in Vietnam, and that taught them to be more careful about their victims... make sure they are weak and isolated, or infiltrate them and do it all on the quiet...

    The fact of the matter is that the US needs countries to feed on and they also fear genuine rivals like Russia and China, so they are trying to tick two boxes at once... consume the Ukraine and now Sweden and Finland and Georgia and any Stans that will let them, because if they succeed in consuming those countries and they manage to damage Russia then they can start consuming Russia too and will be on Chinas doorstep... guess what happens to China next... and then India of course if they don't do what they are told... the EU is almost sucked dry and US tentacles have been exposed in Africa near things of value...

    The US are monsters.

    They spend trillions a year... their military budget plus the money the CIA spends on top of that is an enormous amount of money, but they really don't get any value for money which is their core problem moving forward.

    When was the last time the US said... we can do this a few ways... lets do it the cost effective way...

    The US politicians and US pentagon officials are all part of the corruption and don't care about saving money... if they saved money they might realise they don't need to spend that much per year and what the US is really about is bribery and corruption around the world.
    thegopnik
    thegopnik


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    Post  thegopnik Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:16 pm

    Precision Guided Munitions in RuAF - Page 10 Screen90

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    Hole
    Hole


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    Post  Hole Wed May 22, 2024 9:30 pm

    Precision Guided Munitions in RuAF - Page 10 32d6cd10
    Precision Guided Munitions in RuAF - Page 10 58113b10
    Precision Guided Munitions in RuAF - Page 10 Cb71e010
    Universelle interspezifische Gleitmunition UMPB D-30SN. (Translation from Russian)

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    Hole
    Hole


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    Post  Hole Sun May 26, 2024 9:59 pm

    Precision Guided Munitions in RuAF - Page 10 Photo-21

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