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    US Nuclear Submarine Force

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr on Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:37 pm

    Hole wrote:They did not test every delivery because they wanted to save the money = maximize profit.

    This reminds me of the oil rig in the gulf of mexiko which went up in flames because one of the companies used shitty concrete and the other one bribed the state officials so they wouldn´t enforce the minimum standards for that kind of operation.

    Well of course, but I think they were also quite confident the steel was good. If the steel failed and this was discovered they would be facing looooooong jail terms
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:48 am

    The steel is probably fine...but the fact is...they don't know for sure. Its likely the steel historically needed to be tested but the steel maker improved their process to the point that their failure rate was zero so they just randomized the testing. This is why some were not tested.

    Well no... the steel clearly failed the tests which meant the results needed to be falsified.

    Tests generally are designed for the real world plus a safety margin to allow for combinations of situations that might effect the final product.

    The Criminal lady concerned claimed the tests were unreasonable so she changed the results so they passed thinking real world conditions would not reach the extremes of the test this steel failed so it should be OK... nice gamble by that lady... wonder how American taxpayers feel about such wishy washy crap... your brain surgeon about to remove the brain tumour from your skull only went to community college but as long as nothing bad happens you should be fine... unless he has a panic attack... again.

    Actually the fact Submarines are doing their job is proof, USN Submarines much like Russian ones must dive to max depth before they are commissioned if this steel was used the hulls would have imploded underwater.

    Depth limits for the Subs is conservatively calculated so most of the time they should be fine... but do they do crush depth tests in the arctic or antarctic oceans... I seriously doubt it... more likely close to port so rescue is close by.... so in a combat situation and they are up in the far north when they get near crush depth and find when the water is colder the leaks are much more dangerous and frequent... pop...

    Also every time a Submarines returns from a patrol it is extensively checked over, including testing the hull, and if problems are found it is sent to be repaired.

    Ahh bullshit... tied up at the pier how do they test it for cold temperatures and high underwater pressure the equivalent of 400 metres of water .... and if they can do that every time the sub comes back to port why do they even bother asking that company in Tohoma to do it for them... I mean it is obviously a testing laboratory but if every US Sub port can test why not just ship it direct from where it is made to the port and test it all before assembly?

    A long time ago with USS Thresher the USN experimented to see if it could just be cheap with repairs and quality control but that resulted in the demise of the submarine thus ever since then extensive and strict rules have been in place for the maintenance and inspection of USN Submarines.

    Not the last 30 years they haven't... because strict means everyone puts down correct information and does not lie or fiddle the numbers...

    So, if they test the parts prior of installation then the falsificatin has been discovered at the beginning of 90s, not 30 years later,

    He is suggesting that the Navy tests all their subs all the time yet they haven't noticed that for 30 years half the batches of special high tensile steel for sub hulls delivered by the company that makes that special steel has been below standard... that on its own clearly shows if they are testing it themselves they either have a much lower testing standard or they are not testing it themselves at all... Why bother testing to a lower standard... you test to the highest standard you can so if a few different things happen you still have a safety margin...

    Well of course, but I think they were also quite confident the steel was good. If the steel failed and this was discovered they would be facing looooooong jail terms

    They clearly thought the standards were too high.

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr on Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:49 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Well no... the steel clearly failed the tests which meant the results needed to be falsified.

    Tests generally are designed for the real world plus a safety margin to allow for combinations of situations that might effect the final product.

    The Criminal lady concerned claimed the tests were unreasonable so she changed the results so they passed thinking real world conditions would not reach the extremes of the test this steel failed so it should be OK... nice gamble by that lady... wonder how American taxpayers feel about such wishy washy crap... your brain surgeon about to remove the brain tumour from your skull only went to community college but as long as nothing bad happens you should be fine... unless he has a panic attack... again.


    She felt they were pointless, this company has been doing these tests for a very long time so I don't think she did the tests and sent failed batches to the USN, she just did not do them period. So as I said, not clear if the steel was actually out of spec. These companies that make steel for subs are pretty good at making steel. It is a specialized mill. So I highly down the steel is crap.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:44 pm

    You can earn a lot of money by delivering cheaper steel but send your customer a bill for the good stuff.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:19 am

    They did the tests... how else could they know half the batches failed or that half the batches passed.

    What she did was falsify the results so it appeared to the customer (the US Navy) that all the steel they were delivering to be used as hulls for US submarines was passing all the tests when they clearly were not.

    As Hole said this is not your average steel, though clearly half of it was pretty ordinary, but they were paying for special steel for a specific role and they were getting rejected steel.

    They haven't done much in the arctic ocean but currently they are building ice breakers which suggests they intend to increase their presence up there... so subs built over the last 30 years... they only make nuclear subs so all the nuclear subs they made in the last 30 years might have a few problems if they start operating up north more often...
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    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:33 am

    Someone has cited one of mine pasted interventions  -to Militarov- in the context of the news about faulty high-yield steel casing produced by Bradken company for mostly US Navy's submarines and new aircraft carriers.


    In the beginning is necessary to distinguish the levels :

    - In the highlighted news we talk of a criminal instance of industrial treacherous conduct against a public committent , those kind of illicit acts are historically present in virtually among the military industry contractors anywhere on the planet with several degrees of seriousness.

    - What is was attempting to highlight in that response to Militarov instead was a technological and parametrical comparison of the military grade high-yield corrosion-resistant steel casing products available domestically and to US military naval industry.


    There are obviously also some important points of convergence between the news and mine post :

    1) The type of steel in object is exactly the HY-80 and HY-100 of which i was talking in mine response.
    2) Bradken Inc (former Tacoma foundry ) is by far the leading producer of HY-80 and HY-100 high-yield steel for the US Navy submarines (a bit less than 70% has been procured from Takoma/Bradken in the latest 30 years).
    3) The tests that a substantial percentage of those high tensile steel castings failed to comply with , since Takoma Foundry's times long more than 30 years, was just those relative to toughness (Charpy-V-notch tests) and tensile strenght (hypervelocity tensile solicitations ).
    Those parameters would had been really important and even critical in war situations in particular in deciding the survival or the destruction of the submarine's hull against the overpressure caused by the detonation of enemy torpedo's warheads, , mines or deep bombs operations near or within crushing depth's limits and/or at very high speed for escape from enemy ASW's surveillance or attacks, war-time operations in the Arctic Region foreseeing sudden variations of speed and deepness .


    Therefore the fact more important in this event is not the criminal conduct (present as already said more or less anywhere around the world) by part of the Takoma/Bradken responsible that falsified the data of the performance tests certifications for the high-yield tensile steel casting HY-80 and HY-100, but that the leading and most experienced US makers of such high tensile strenght failed to reliably produce long more than 30 years steel casting the mechanical toughness and tensile performance of which are not even at level of beginning of '80 years domestic counterparts.


    This is an efficient testimony of how ,outside the micro-electronic field, US MiC suffer several and often very big technological gaps against domestic one and how ,meanly, western media attempt to cover those enormous points of darkness in theirs military-related scientifical basis using a narrative where electronics components occupy the central and often only role in the description of the high-technology components of a military product.


    Last edited by Mindstorm on Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Arrow

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    Post  Arrow on Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:58 am

    Mindstorm wrote:Someone has cited one of mine pasted interventions  -to Militarov- in the context of the news about faulty high-yield steel casing produced by Bradken company for mostly US Navy's submarines and new aircraft carriers.



    This is an efficient testimony of how ,outside the micro-electronic field, US MiC suffer several and often very big technological gaps against domestic one and how ,meanly, western media attempt to cover those enormous points of darkness in theirs military-related scientifical basis using a narrative where electronics components occupy the central and often only role in the description of the high-technology components of a military product.

    Mindstorm, in essence, all key US military technologies have a gap compared to those of the Russian Federation. Does the US have an advantage over the Russian Federation, apart from microelectronics? Aviation industry, aircraft engines?, radiolocation technologies, reconnaissance satellites, etc.
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:36 pm

    Arrow wrote:
    Mindstorm wrote:Someone has cited one of mine pasted interventions  -to Militarov- in the context of the news about faulty high-yield steel casing produced by Bradken company for mostly US Navy's submarines and new aircraft carriers.



    This is an efficient testimony of how ,outside the micro-electronic field, US MiC suffer several and often very big technological gaps against domestic one and how ,meanly, western media attempt to cover those enormous points of darkness in theirs military-related scientifical basis using a narrative where electronics components occupy the central and often only role in the description of the high-technology components of a military product.

    Mindstorm, in essence, all key US military technologies have a gap compared to those of the Russian Federation. Does the US have an advantage over the Russian Federation, apart from microelectronics? Aviation industry, aircraft engines?, radiolocation technologies, reconnaissance satellites, etc.


    IT is quite hard to asses, considering that there is little available data about the real performance of weapon systems.

    But I think even the eletrnics advantage melting fast.


    MY favorite video to show the quality of USA weapon system is the loading on the M1 tank vs German Leopard vs T-72.

    The USA version is simply subpar compared to the others, and I'm not talking about the autloader, but just about the breech mechanis.

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    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:13 pm

    My principal issue is the real capability of weapon systems.

    I can haihglight it with a simple example.

    Say ,there are two armies, one armed with Mosin-Nagant, the other with AK-47.

    The MN one decide tho make a huge leap to the future, and put digital clip counter, and led light on the guns.

    By defintion,the army with the MN will have more advanced weapons than the other, because the weapons has digital thingies attaxched with function, but in reality it will be more af an disadvantage, rather than anything.


    Checking many USA weapon system I have the feeling of "advanced" feature is nothing else just visual tuning on an inferrior system, like a spoiler on a 50 HP car.


    But it shown quite well in a movie, showing the clip counter and led light, i am sure : )
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:00 am

    The advantages the US has include bottomless pockets and such a willingness to shrug their shoulders and enormous amounts of money being needlessly wasted on shit they don't need.

    But most importantly their PR machine which includes what they like to pretend are independent western media, as well as TV and movies to sell their products and push their ideology.

    The F-14 is cool because we saw Topgun and Tom Cruise flew one. Russians are all drunk and any high tech Russian stuff is a copy of a previous generation of American stuff.... wasn't there a movie called space cowboys where there is a Soviet satellite that is going to release nuclear weapons and start WWIII... totally violating international laws but that is what the Soviets did... but they need to get American NASA staff out of retirement to deal with it because the old Soviet satellite is of course based on a US model and uses US programming code to operate so only an American who used to work at NASA can fix it... and being the 1990s the Russians are too poor to fix things so they need American help... you know... American bullshit.

    Of course their strength is PR which is essentially lying to someone to their face.... of course they are experts.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:06 am


    Any chance of this tread going back to discussing Russian Navy?

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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:08 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Any chance of this tread going back to discussing Russian Navy?


    The Russian navy don't really have anything other than a few small corvettes. The main discussion is US navy and Chinese navy.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:41 pm

    ultimatewarrior wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Any chance of this tread going back to discussing Russian Navy?


    The Russian navy don't really have anything other than a few small corvettes. The main discussion is US navy and Chinese navy.

    I wanted to ask the mods already if it was possible to move this discussion to the IS navy thread but I did not want to use a message just for that.
    However after seeing the post from the armachairwarrior here (and in the other threads) I just thought that it would be convenient to move some trash away from this thread.

    And if the armchair warrior here does not have any other pleasure in life as for useless messages and trolling I would also kindly ask the mods to dedicate a thread in the talking bollock area about the uselessness of the russian navy, so that he and his friends can have their fun there and stop polluting the otherwise interesting discussions in other threads...

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:00 pm

    I have to admit he is very funny when trolling lol1 lol1

    I love this kind of humor. lol1 .
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:55 pm

    Maybe he should inform himself about the russian navy before making a moron out of himself.
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    Post  George1 on Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:56 pm

    i sent him for "vacation" for 2 weeks. Next time it will be permanent

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:24 am

    Maybe substandard steel is why they were having problems with their stealth coatings falling off and problems repairing subs...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:38 pm

    The W76-2 warhead — which, with an explosive yield of roughly five kilotons, has a smaller explosive yield than either of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki — was subsequently deployed aboard the ..[url=https://news.usni.org/2020/02/04/pentagon-confirms-low-yield-nuclear-warhead-on-ballistic-missile-sub#more-73230]USS Tennessee (SSBN 734)[/url] at the end of 2019, according to Defense News.
    https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/trump-nuclear-weapons-w76-2-low-yield-nuke
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:12 am

    Such a low power yield would make it filthy....

    The radiation created by a fission explosion does not increase at the same rate the explosive power increases, so while a 2KT nuke might have a 200m where the gamma radiation levels are lethal, a 2MT (1,000 times more powerful) might have a 250m range where the gamma rays are lethal on their own.

    It effectively makes the bigger bombs less radioactive because the distances at which the explosion will kill you far exceed the distance you can get a lethal dose of radiation... so all the people that could be killed by radiation are killed by the blast anyway.

    Making a super small bomb makes very little sense unless you want to make mini warheads you can carry in much larger numbers or you want a nuclear weapon that is more like a conventional weapon in terms of damage which makes them more usable.

    As mentioned the radiation will be more of a factor for smaller warheads, which would counter any argument that it might just be like a conventional bomb...

    Would be funny if they didn't test them and found when they used them that they don't actually work and are duds... especially if they replace all their ICBM warheads with them in enormous numbers. Which means they will need to violate the nuclear test ban treaty to be sure...
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:10 am

    Garry, that is with 1960's technology. They have apparently now moved on to small/very small nukes with little radiation such that, if the detonation is underground, it is difficult to measure at all.

    This is one of the scary developments, the ability to use the power of a low yield nuclear device whilst calling it a big conventional bomb, whilst containing it in a package much smaller than a briefcase.

    This also makes them much easier to test without raising warning flags.

    Whilst VT puts out some really strange views they do have some expertise and nuclear is among them. They have packaged all they have done into one area and this is the thread that I think is relevant here. You might find it of interest. https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/07/01/vt-proving-again-that-nuclear-weapons-are-your-friend/
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    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:54 am

    Precision guided weapons means no need for small nuclear warheads.

    They were mostly used on tactical missiles because they had very bad CEP.

    Nuclear warheads are meant and designed to blow up cities or airports. What's the point of a nuclear warhead that has a small radius ? It will just give the right to the opposing force to use a nuclear weapon but with a much bigger power.

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