Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+22
Hole
PeeD
Isos
crod
nomadski
miketheterrible
dino00
yavar
lulldapull
JohninMK
Solncepek
Rodinazombie
max steel
George1
sepheronx
pacificfreeintel
flamming_python
nemrod
Hannibal Barca
GarryB
Werewolf
ShahryarHedayatiSHBA
26 posters

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9709
    Points : 9695
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  Isos Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:42 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Interesting if correct.

    syrseal
    @syrseal44
    ·
    29 Aug

    Chief of the General Staff of the Iranian Armed Forces: Division General Mohammad-Hossein Bagheri:

    The Russians did not even show us the appearance and shape of Iskander ballistic missiles, which have a range of 300 km, but nevertheless we were able to obtain this point guidance technology.


    Guidance is a matter of electronics, not ballistics.

    The civilian products that you find in modern gaming computer are very powerful and allow a huge processing power for military hardware. Other high tech sensors are also easy to find in civilian industrial stuff.

    They are very easy to get.

    Iranians have also a lot of smart engineers to take good use of that.

    I doubt they develop such technologies alone and there must be lot of copies in their missiles or chinese components.

    Yeah and I should add that modern electronic are mainly coming from Asia... which makes it even more accessible.

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33867
    Points : 34385
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:14 am

    Do they not have the internet... the Russian military have shown me the design of the Iskander...

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Messag11

    In excellent detail.

    BTW the export model has a range of 300km, while the domestic models range is closer to 500km.

    Its ballistic range would probably be double that if it followed a purely ballistic path to its target, but instead it climbs to about 100km altitude and then cruises towards the target like a plane and then starts to manouver as it approaches the target area... it can detect enemy radar sensors and deploy chaff decoys to disrupt enemy radar as it manouvers in to hit the target at mach 6-7 or so.

    The air launched model called Kinzhal (Dagger in english... the same name as the naval TOR SAM system) can use its solid rocket motor to fly much faster and higher which allows it to hit targets 2,000km away instead of 500km away.

    The Iskander uses various types of guidance options, but most are strapdown inertial to the target area and active radar for large targets like bridges or groups of armoured vehicles (for which it can carry a cluster munition warhead) or a fixed building (conventional or nuclear warhead up to 600kgs or so).

    There is also an optical seeker version that has a CEP of about 3m that can be used against moving targets like ships.

    Ballistics is all about allowing it to maintain speed all the way to the target... the missile is steered by small control vanes that are located inside the rocket exhaust so it essentially has TVC rocket steering, which means its rocket motor needs to operate after launch obviously, but it cruises to the target area and then starts up its rocket motor again for the terminal manouvering needed to evade defences and hit the target.

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 58959710
    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2


    Posts : 2590
    Points : 2766
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:35 am

    A few pics of systems.

    Fateh-110 twin rocket TEL 300km range
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Fateh-10
    Fateh-313 twin rocket TEL 500km range
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 13950610
    Raad-500 twin rocket TEL 500km range
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Eixu-x10
    Zolfaghar ''Zulfiqar'' twin rocket TEL 700km range
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Zf10
    Dezful twin rocket TEL 1000km range two types
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Efdre-10
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Def10
    Khalij Fars anti ship twin and triple rocket TEL 300km range
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Kf210
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Kf310
    Hormuz-1 & 2, anti ship and anti radiation 300km.range twin rocket TEL. Notice one TEL armed with one of each type of rocket
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 15262910
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 65810
    Zelzal-3 triple rocket TEL 200km range
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Zelzal10
    Martyr Abu Mahdi ground launched cruise missile.1000km range
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Image_10

    Unknown shipping twin rocket container launched system

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Image10

    Hannibal Barca likes this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9709
    Points : 9695
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  Isos Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:51 pm

    They really became precise with those ballistic missiles. And it's carried on a normal truck. It cames when israeli are practicing a strike against Iran. Maybe they sent those in Syria and Lebanon. 6 missiles t once is hard to deal with.  

    GarryB and d_taddei2 like this post

    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2


    Posts : 2590
    Points : 2766
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:34 am

    Isos wrote:They really became precise with those ballistic missiles. And it's carried on a normal truck. It cames when israeli are practicing a strike against Iran. Maybe they sent those in Syria and Lebanon. 6 missiles t once is hard to deal with.  


    Looking good. They should first test this in Syria on terrorists in idilb the fine tweak if needed

    nomadski likes this post

    nomadski
    nomadski


    Posts : 1957
    Points : 1967
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  nomadski Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:50 pm

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/182130/VIDEO-Ballistic-missiles-at-Great-Prophet-17-drills

    They said the missiles are now improved with evasive manoeuvres . From your post it looks like the same missile battery can  hit same  target from different directions with hypersonic speeds . The Americans and Israel  may see on Radar !  Or may not , since some are composite . May only detect launch from satellite ! Or may not , since Iranians can blind IR sensors on satellite with lasers .  They may hear them coming ? No ........They said they breached enemy electronic defences ........
    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 271
    Points : 279
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:12 pm

    Elint Twitter wrote:ELINT News
    @ELINTNews
    ·
    51 Min.
    Iran’s ballistic missiles strikes mock-up of Israel’s Dimona facility
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1474459558286438408
    Good Night Israel and very Lucky...

    nomadski likes this post

    George1
    George1


    Posts : 17724
    Points : 18231
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  George1 Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:38 pm

    nomadski
    nomadski


    Posts : 1957
    Points : 1967
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  nomadski Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:25 pm

    Two observations :


    ( 1 ) The missiles are ripple fired ( Not simultaneously ) but align themselves into same flight path , one behind the other . This probably reduces Radar footprint . But makes me think that the missiles have different jobs .

    ( 2 ) If we look closely at impact site of Demonna  mock-up , near the end , we see two very closely timed impacts , such that a second warhead is caught up in the blast of the first  ! Yet second warhead functions perfectly . This means warheads are immune to close up detonations and heat and blast . Therefore a proximity explosion by AD missile , will be ineffective . Need direct hit .
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9709
    Points : 9695
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  Isos Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:01 pm

    AD missiles carry in their warhead small fragments which is how they destroy the target.

    It's not the explosion's shockwave that kills a target but those fragments that destroy the engine and wings mostly.

    Against BM it works less effectively because when the BM falls it is thanks to gravity. No engine and no wings. Then when you hit it, it will still keep fallowing. Destroying its warheads is hard and making it deviate from his trajectory is also hard. That's why successful interception by Patriot against Scuds were actually not successful. Even if the pattiot hit the missile it doesn't destroy the warhead and it kept falling.

    On the opposite hit a cruise missile or plane on the engine or the wings will make it fall on the ground directly.
    nomadski
    nomadski


    Posts : 1957
    Points : 1967
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  nomadski Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:18 pm

    Yes on soft skin aircraft a frag warhead works well , destroying a single engine component will work . But also against a soft skin Hamas Rocket with volatile warhead it will cause an explosion ( as I think evidenced by Video of two close proximity puffs of smoke  ) and destroy Rocket . But on hard skin or inert explosive warhead BM , a frag  warhead will not work . Plus if we look at these BM , they do fragment into pieces as evident from hits on desert floor . Larger pieces . Only 200 kg of 450 kg of warhead is explosive material . The rest is metal casing . So Iron dome not effective . Probably larger warhead like S200 also not effective . Unless direct hit .



    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mcUpeaSX8BE
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33867
    Points : 34385
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 26, 2021 7:15 am

    The US CIWS Phalanx uses a DU core to penetrate through the nose mounted radar of a supersonic Soviet anti ship missile to try to damage the weapon structurally to make it fall and crash into the sea.

    Soviet CIWS invariably fired HE shells to try to detonate the incoming weapon or aircraft.

    A large powerful warhead on an anti ship missile can still do serious damage to a ship if it explodes within 300m or so, and of course a very high speed missile can have its radar shattered completely and still fly into the ship target.

    Detonating the warhead of the incoming threat is the best way to defeat an incoming missile or weapon and the problems associated with that are enormous and variable.

    For ballistic weapons the core problem is that for most of its ballistic flight it is operating at altitude, where the air is thin.

    Intercepting a target at 30km altitude and your HE blast warhead will be useless beyond a metre or so, but Soviet and Russian ABM missiles (including SAMs) have smart fuses... at the last micro second the sensors in the intercepting missile can determine the distance and direction to the incoming missile. The Soviets had the advantage of designing SAMs that were intended to engage a variety of targets so when engaging an enemy plane going for centre mass could sever the fuselage, remove the tail section, or destroy the wing structure, but with a falling ballistic target like a scud missile the engine is not running and the fuel tanks are empty so you need to target the warhead, which is in the nose section... you can shred the rest of the missile and have absolutely no effect because it is already falling anyway... breaking up the missile in flight means the next Patriots will go for the fuel tanks and engine sections because they are bigger than the warhead section so you might hit a Scud five times and the warhead still hits the ground along with the other four Patriot missiles that missed it... so nine Patriots fired but no real kills because the five that hit just shredded the empty fuel tanks and engines and the warhead landed on the ground anyway.

    The Russian SAMs on the other hand know the target is ballistic and as it approaches the target at enormous speeds it calculates a final intercept angle and detonates its 150kg warhead directing a stream of metallic fragments at enormous speeds at the warhead of the incoming missile blowing up the entire target.

    Firing ballistic missiles in volleys makes sense... having them follow each other also makes sense... the disturbed air means less drag for the following rockets so they will arrive closer together... but far enough apart that one interceptor missile cannot get more than one at a time...

    The flight speed of the incoming ballistic missile is normally added to the outgoing speed of the interceptor missile with the fragments of that outgoing interceptor missile having the speed of explosive accelerated fragments added to the game.

    The target missile wont have super thick metal around its HE warhead... the purpose of the metal around the warhead is to be broken up and flung around the place by the explosion... if it is too heavy and too thick it wont go very far or very fast... for use against targets above the surface exploding the warhead 50m above the ground would spread the metal fragments which would be falling at enormous speeds resulting in enormous damage to things on the ground... leaving the explosion too late could result in the penetrator being in the ground which would protect most things near the target because the ground would absorb the fragments and energy.

    For a ballistic missiles warhead of 450kg, having 200kgs of HE and therefore 250kgs of metal fragments those metal fragments would not be a 250kg solid piece of metal encasing the HE charge... it would likely be a mixture of ball bearings and metal cubes in several layers around the outside of the HE payload.

    The explosion in a ballistic missile might be at 2-3km/s because of the HE burn rate, but the metal pieces wont all be accelerated to that speed like a rifle bullet, because there is no barrel to concentrate the gas and accelerate the fragments over a period of time and distance, but then the missile itself will be moving at a good speed too.

    A 30mm HE cannon shell could set off the warhead prematurely, just like any HE warhead equipped missile... but being in the right place at the right time is an issue.

    Sujoy likes this post

    Sujoy
    Sujoy


    Posts : 1938
    Points : 2100
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India || भारत

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  Sujoy Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:49 am

    GarryB wrote:A large powerful warhead on an anti ship missile can still do serious damage to a ship if it explodes within 300m or so, and of course a very high speed missile can have its radar shattered completely and still fly into the ship target.
    GLONASS/INS will probably ensure that even if the radar is damaged the cruise missile can still hit the target. U.S cruise missiles probably have similar features.
    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 271
    Points : 279
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:07 pm

    Kombination from ballistic missiles and Drohnen.
    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 11103
    Points : 11224
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  JohninMK Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:31 pm

    Some missile porn Smile No-one was hurt making these pictures  Laughing

    Three incoming (plus one just hitting the dome in the first piccy?) on the Iran's practice 1:10 scale Dimona.


    Spriter
    @spriter99880
    ·
    20h
    This photo is also of the detachable warhead of Iran's tactical missiles, which lands on the enemy with tremendous and unprecedented speed. This image speaks for itself and shows that the technology of making missiles in Iran has gone beyond the native stage and has become an art

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 FHejjiDXwAoS--4?format=jpg&name=small

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 FHevUn6WQAAZEQE?format=jpg&name=small

    nomadski likes this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9709
    Points : 9695
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  Isos Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:23 pm

    An impressive thing is that those are two different class of missiles. First is a 700km range with no plasma around it which suggests it's not as fast as the second one which has plasma and suggests a speed way greater than maach 4/5. And they both come at the same time as shown in the pictures.

    It complicates a potential interception.
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 2064
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  ALAMO Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:39 pm

    First of all, if we combine that with the effect of the last Iranian strike at the US bases, it turns out clear that they put a lot of effort to NOT hit them too much.

    crod likes this post

    crod
    crod


    Posts : 504
    Points : 541
    Join date : 2009-08-04

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  crod Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:47 am

    Yeah I mean if these pictures and video are true, they might not be full of shit after all and do indeed posses the ability to strike at israel with their proclaimed potency.

    The worrying thing for that country is Iran could use proxies to saturate iron dome the way Hamas did earlier in the year before the real rockets hit home, that could be devastating. Never mind the nuke facility but their air force bases could well be destroyed thus removing a major arm of their offensive capabilities.

    I'd say they're frigging well horrified looking that this...
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33867
    Points : 34385
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:34 am

    GLONASS/INS will probably ensure that even if the radar is damaged the cruise missile can still hit the target. U.S cruise missiles probably have similar features.

    The difference is that the US anti ship missiles are subsonic and easier to hit than manouvering hypersonic threats moving 10 times faster.

    An impressive thing is that those are two different class of missiles. First is a 700km range with no plasma around it which suggests it's not as fast as the second one which has plasma and suggests a speed way greater than maach 4/5. And they both come at the same time as shown in the pictures.

    It complicates a potential interception.

    Unless it is a very high speed camera those warheads are not super fast, but considering US defences they don't really have to be if they can manouver as they come in....

    First of all, if we combine that with the effect of the last Iranian strike at the US bases, it turns out clear that they put a lot of effort to NOT hit them too much.

    Being fast and able to manouver a little will dramatically reduce the number of US weapons that can shoot them down... make them in useful numbers and there will be quite a few that will get through no matter where it is aimed at... which makes them very dangerous for the US and Israel...

    Time to talk seriously with Iran... rather than at Iran which is what they normally do and perhaps start to make some real concessions... nor not.. and just remain arrogant pricks as usual.

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 6996
    Points : 6984
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  Hole Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:29 pm

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Fho0ed10
    Launch
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Fho0qa10
    Impact
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Fhm3dl10
    Group pic

    According to some spources some of the missiles are fitted with somer sort of MaRV.

    GarryB likes this post

    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 271
    Points : 279
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Mon May 30, 2022 11:01 am

    Cept!

    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Edjsn
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 7sjpi
    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 J3j88

    lancelot likes this post


    Sponsored content


    Iran's Ballistic Missile Program - Page 5 Empty Re: Iran's Ballistic Missile Program

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:24 pm